Author slm Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 I thought she did want to work on things. Her exact words for me today when I asked, "If we can fix the issues in our marriage and make it so everyone is happy, is that what you want?" She replied, "Yes, I would love for that to happen, but I am leery."
sirweasles Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 now is the time for your actions to prove not your words you need to prove that you are getting better and you need to let your w decide when to talk about relationship you just focus on being there for all your kids equally and being the best you can be for your wife.
Author slm Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 now is the time for your actions to prove not your words you need to prove that you are getting better and you need to let your w decide when to talk about relationship you just focus on being there for all your kids equally and being the best you can be for your wife. Thank you. I know this is going to be a struggle, but I know the juice is worth the squeeze. So, I should just communicate when appropriate and let her bring the relationship talk to me?
sirweasles Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I would communicate when ever possible. but dont push it. If she initiates talk then talk let her communicate be her support without pushing her away dont crowd her by all means tell her good morning with a text everymorning let her know you love her. I text my wife almost every morning and night with a good morning i love you have a good day or have a good night i love you sleep good I try to every so often just drop an i love you in the middle of the day aswell you cant be at it constantly and you have to wait even when u dont want to wait for her to ask a question before you talk to her let her open lines of communication for each day before you go any further than the good morning part and when she starts giving short answers there is your que to cut off conversation and go back to just responding to her. all relationship conversations need to be started and lead by her. dont talk to your kids about what you and your wife are going through just answer there questions if they arise and answer as a fence sitter all answers must be nutrual. I believe a major step is goin to be the change in how you and your older 3 children get along and I believe that you showing them unending love and support will be and must be the only route.
Author slm Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 I would communicate when ever possible. but dont push it. If she initiates talk then talk let her communicate be her support without pushing her away dont crowd her by all means tell her good morning with a text everymorning let her know you love her. I text my wife almost every morning and night with a good morning i love you have a good day or have a good night i love you sleep good I try to every so often just drop an i love you in the middle of the day aswell you cant be at it constantly and you have to wait even when u dont want to wait for her to ask a question before you talk to her let her open lines of communication for each day before you go any further than the good morning part and when she starts giving short answers there is your que to cut off conversation and go back to just responding to her. all relationship conversations need to be started and lead by her. dont talk to your kids about what you and your wife are going through just answer there questions if they arise and answer as a fence sitter all answers must be nutrual. I believe a major step is goin to be the change in how you and your older 3 children get along and I believe that you showing them unending love and support will be and must be the only route. I swear, I don't know why I bother asking for advice if I am going to ignore it. She and I were cleaning out the rental we moved out of and I started with relationship talk and she shut down. I asked her if it would just be easier for her if I didn't talk to her for a while and she said, "You do what you want to do!". I told her I was asking what would be easiest for HER, she told me, "I just don't know why every conversation we have has to be about things I don't have an answer for". I am a moron, obviously.
hopesndreams Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 "I just don't know why every conversation we have has to be about things I don't have an answer for". Here's the 180. Be consistent. It will give you both space. Watch for her actions and reactions. 1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore. 2. No frequent phone calls. 3. Do not point out good points in marriage. 4. Do not follow her around the house. 5. Do not encourage talk about the future. 6. Do not ask for help from family members. 7. Do not ask for reassurances. 8. Do not buy gifts. 9. Do not schedule dates together. 10. Do not spy on spouse. 11. Do not say "I Love You". 12. Act as if you are moving on with your life. 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive. 14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc. 15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. 16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse. 18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing 19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around. 20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while). 21. Never lose your cool. 22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic. 23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger). 24. Be patient 25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. 26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out. 27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). 28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. 29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write. 30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy. 31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. 32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared. 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. 34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.
trippi1432 Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 Shaun - the above list is taken from the Michelle Wiener Davis Divorce Busting site; however, while the tools are there to employ, unfortunately I don't feel enough information is typically given to understand the concepts. I am one that utilized the divorce busting coach and it did work to get my exH back home; however, I didn't follow through and we both fell back to the same bad marriage. At any rate, it's great that this information and steps are there to use, but why...why do this? Same thing as NC...we see it all the time and get advised to do it...but sometimes people don't understand that the concept typically leads to confusion and can backfire if not utilized for the right reasons. At any rate, I came across a site that gives a decent basis for what the 180 is for so you can judge for yourself what tactics pertain to you and your situation. http://www.infidelity.com/forum/180-t2031.html - 3rd post down. Yes, I know, it's on an infidelity forum....but since someone put it out there for advice...best to be well armed for information so you don't mess up. In addition, please check out the following http://www.divorcebusting.com/. A lot of good information that may be more pertinent to your situation since infidelity is not present. Of course, there is a lot of information here on LS too...but the more resources, the better. Hope this helps you.
Author slm Posted January 30, 2011 Author Posted January 30, 2011 I can do the 180, I just needed to know what it entailed. Our anniversary is today (Sunday) but I will have contact to pick up my daughter. I can do exactly what you said above. No more backsliding for me.
tojaz Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 That makes sense to me. What I don't know is how to balance her request for space with what I know is the need for communication. For example, as I was leaving today I said, "Well, I will see you on Sunday when I pick up [our daughter]." She works 3rd shift and three of my kids are older (14,12 and 8), but the 2 year old obviously has to stay with me. She replied, "Well, I will see you tomorrow at the house, right?", meaning the rental we were living in, which each of us has a few things left to gather. I know I shouldn't be reading into her words but it seemed like that was a good thing, almost eagerness. Thats a touchy spot SLM as I see you have discovered for yourself. Her exact words for me today when I asked, "If we can fix the issues in our marriage and make it so everyone is happy, is that what you want?" She replied, "Yes, I would love for that to happen, but I am leery." I swear, I don't know why I bother asking for advice if I am going to ignore it. She and I were cleaning out the rental we moved out of and I started with relationship talk and she shut down. I asked her if it would just be easier for her if I didn't talk to her for a while and she said, "You do what you want to do!". I told her I was asking what would be easiest for HER, she told me, "I just don't know why every conversation we have has to be about things I don't have an answer for". I am a moron, obviously. You see SLM your looking to find balance between space and distance and trying to work on her terms, but she hasn't yet defined those terms for herself so how on earth are you supposed to know what they are???? Its a tough spot, and one we all have found ourselves in. Your not going to get it right! I'll say that again YOUR NOT GOING TO GET IT RIGHT!!! The best you can do is give your self better odds. I've been there, in the heat of the moment, its like your fighting for your life, and you don't know when your going to get a chance again. You want to get it all out while you have the chance. Thats how I was, and I'm single my friend! Its a lot for her to handle, she has all those same thoughts and more to deal with. Know when to quit! If you too are talking and you get one or two small ideas in. STOP! Otherwise you start trying to cram. It becomes bad for her and shes going to forget any good points you've made and just have a memory of another argument, more stress, more pressure...... more reason she needs to leave. Folks have suggested the 180 and parts of it are not bad, but its not law. You have to alter and adapt it to your own purposes. Above all else, know what her worries are and do nothing to reinforce that, and know the kind of man you want to be, are trying to be, and remember that needs to be what you show her. Its an uphill battle, play it smart! Heres a tip SLM, next time you go to pick up your daughter, take all the kids out for lunch, movie, icecream, whatever your pleasure. Dont even say a word to her if you don't have to. Actions speak louder then words, and if your hearts in the right place they very rarely say the wrong thing. TOJAZ
Author slm Posted January 31, 2011 Author Posted January 31, 2011 Day 1 of 180 complete. I have my daughter staying with me for the first time since we started the move, which is wonderful. She is sitting with me watching Go Diego Go!=) Two of my step-children were there when I picked up my daughter tonight and I made a point to interact with both of them and then hug and kiss them goodbye tonight. Both of them were very happy to see me and excited to tell me the things I had missed since I saw them. Being there really made my heart ache and miss my family. Coupled with the fact that today is our wedding anniversary really made it tough, but I kept a brave face on and was polite but not chatty. I just acted up beat and happy. I did tell her "Happy Anniversary, by the way" as my daughter and I were leaving, which was a little bit snarky of me I guess.
Author slm Posted January 31, 2011 Author Posted January 31, 2011 Because my wife and I have overlapping work schedules a few days a week, my daughter usually goes to the baby sitter but today she couldn't so I had to drop her off with my step-daughter. She is the one I have had the hardest time with and I tried to take advantage of a rare opportunity to talk to her one on one. I told her, "You know I want to make things work with your mom, right? To do that means I need to work on things with you too. I realize I have really screwed up with you and I am sorry for that. I don't care about being your parent, I don't care about you loving me, right now all I care about is being your friend. I hope that is possible, because I want that very much. I just don't know how to do it." She kind of smiled at me, I had to go to work so I told her to have a good day at school and left. --- I am not sure if reaching out to her like that will help but at this point I very rarely get to see her so I wanted to take advantage of the opportunity to let her know I care about her. Anyone think this was good or bad?
trippi1432 Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) Not bad at all, a good step in the right direction. There is safety for both of you in working on being someone she can rely on at a friend level...trying too hard to be a parent can become too full on when a bridge needs to be repaired. I will say this as well though, be firm and consistent in that friendship with your step-daughter. Do not try to overly please her to allow her to manipulate the situation with your wife. The age your step-daughter is can be a very hard age....emotional, drama filled...not to mention hormonal....I can say that as I have a 15 year old son and it can be full on some days. Just the other day he yelled at his dad's girlfriend to quit trying to be his mother. Granted, the very real side of that was more manipulation because he wasn't getting what he wanted at the time. It's very hard sometimes for a parent to see their children as they really are... Parents can love their children unconditionally, but it doesn't mean that they have to like or condone a behavior or a choice that their child makes. I say this, but I know that I still become a doormat for my children....:rolleyes: Someone told me () that the 180 works for more than just your spouse...some of it can be applied to children as well...you just have to pick the things that apply. I would say that as you work towards being your step-daughter's friend to repair the relationship, you may want to look at these steps as a basis: 1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore. 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive. 21. Never lose your cool. 22. Don't be overly enthusiastic. 23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger). 24. Be patient 25. Listen carefully to what your spouse/child is really saying to you. 26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out. 27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). 28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. 29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write. 30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy. 31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse/child. 34. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes. Also, remember, this is going to be a roller-coaster for a while. There may be times when things aren't going well with your wife. When that happens, don't pull away from repairing that bridge with your step-daughter...or vice-versa. Be consistent in how you deal with your wife and be consistent in how you repair this relationship with your step-daughter...in reality, it's two different goals but ultimately it's about repairing your family as well (all of the children)...not just about recovering your marriage. Edited January 31, 2011 by trippi1432
What_Next Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 I have nothing more to add in the way of advice as you seem to be getting some very good information here from some very wise people. I will add that I can read the emotion in your posts and I can read just how much you love your wife. I will also add that a deep love is one of the most powerful forces in terms of repairing damaged marriages. I take my own example as proof positive of that. Like has been said to you that this area of the forum is chock full of those that have seen their marriages dissolve for one reason or another. Also there are some others that have managed to recover their marriages from the ashes (Read my thread if you want an example of just how bad it can get). The end result is that you can get some advice from all sides of this painful situation. Listen to it and heed it. Never be afraid to show your wife and your children (ALL OF THEM!!!) just how much you love them. Just don't smother them in the process. If you really believe there is no other man, then give your wife the space she needs and work on yourself. The relationship will almost take care of itself once it begins to get treated the way it needs to be treated to survive.
tojaz Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Because my wife and I have overlapping work schedules a few days a week, my daughter usually goes to the baby sitter but today she couldn't so I had to drop her off with my step-daughter. She is the one I have had the hardest time with and I tried to take advantage of a rare opportunity to talk to her one on one. I told her, "You know I want to make things work with your mom, right? To do that means I need to work on things with you too. I realize I have really screwed up with you and I am sorry for that. I don't care about being your parent, I don't care about you loving me, right now all I care about is being your friend. I hope that is possible, because I want that very much. I just don't know how to do it." She kind of smiled at me, I had to go to work so I told her to have a good day at school and left. --- I am not sure if reaching out to her like that will help but at this point I very rarely get to see her so I wanted to take advantage of the opportunity to let her know I care about her. Anyone think this was good or bad? I think it was very good. careful not to let her feel like shes a pawn in your reconcilliation efforts. I know thats not your intent but it is easy for someone caught in the middle to feel that way. Keep up the good work SLM TOJAZ
Author slm Posted February 1, 2011 Author Posted February 1, 2011 This morning at 5AM (she works 3rd shift) she sent me a text message: "Be careful!" The weather here is pretty ugly and I have a hour commute. I'm not even sure if I should reply to her...
What_Next Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Why wouldn't you respond? Say thank you and tell her to hug the kids for you.
Author slm Posted February 1, 2011 Author Posted February 1, 2011 Why wouldn't you respond? Say thank you and tell her to hug the kids for you. I don't know I am just discouraged. I am on page 29 of your story by the way.
What_Next Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I don't know I am just discouraged. I am on page 29 of your story by the way. It's easy to get discouraged. Heck I still get discouraged now, in fact it happens often. As long as there is no OM, which you are sure there isn't you stand a really good chance of recovering your family and your wife. Change has to come from within though and it is a VERY personal process. Don't be afraid to let it happen. My thread (and my life) has been on a roller coaster for almost a year now. Reading about doesn't come close to experiencing it firsthand I can tell you that. What you might get out of it will be the belief that a recovery of almost any severly damaged marriage is indeed possible.
Author slm Posted February 1, 2011 Author Posted February 1, 2011 It's easy to get discouraged. Heck I still get discouraged now, in fact it happens often. As long as there is no OM, which you are sure there isn't you stand a really good chance of recovering your family and your wife. Change has to come from within though and it is a VERY personal process. Don't be afraid to let it happen. My thread (and my life) has been on a roller coaster for almost a year now. Reading about doesn't come close to experiencing it firsthand I can tell you that. What you might get out of it will be the belief that a recovery of almost any severly damaged marriage is indeed possible. It is hard for me because my wife seems to have pulled away from me so far. It is like she is doing the 180 on me. By nature, I am a fixer. I am a software developer and I am used to being able to solve problems quickly. So, the "Be Patient" part of the 180 doesn't come very easily to me. I hate feeling like I am a puppy on a leash which she can yank whenever it pleases her. I guess it is just hard for me to know she doesn't have answers to questions that come so easily for me. Like, "Do you want to save this?" To me, there is little gray in that statement, but somehow when I asked the answer was gray. *sigh* Combine all of that with the fact I am on the down slope of the roller coaster and it seems so easy for me to just press her hand. You know, be a hard ass and get divorce papers drawn up and tell her to make up her mind. The truth is, I am terrified she will sign them and I am not ready to give up on her.
trippi1432 Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Hi Shaun - keep in mind that she is most likely on a roller coaster too. The 180 defers really putting pressure on you and her as far as the relationship goes and gives you both time to think through the issues. It probably feels like a 180 on her part because you are pulling away from her in respect to what the relationship was before by employing the 180, the two of you aren't in the home together right now so there's that separation of self with her and vice-versa. It's part of finding out what you want from the relationship and how to proceed...without pressure, without making demands. And, well....most men are fixers by nature....women are nurturers by nature. Have you read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus yet?? If not, I know it sounds trite, but grab a copy and really read it. Yes, women are an enigma when it comes to communication. We like for men to fix things at times (like change the light bulb, help us paint a room)...but when it comes to a woman's feelings....well, that's when they just want to know you are listening and have empathy for what they are feeling...not fix it. Think of it this way, you are a software developer....you deal with logic all day...very little gray there. Everything is a definitive Yes/No...If this/then that....you can follow the program to the end result. If you do that here with your wife, the kids, the marriage (either we are married or we are divorced), that might give you the answer you really don't want. If she asks a question, answer it. If she sends you a greeting, send her one back....if she invites you over for dinner, do what you feel in your heart and go. The 180 doesn't have to be followed to the nth degree....you apply it where you feel it fits for you and getting your marriage back on track. In the meantime, take the time to work on the person you want to be for yourself and your family.
Author slm Posted February 1, 2011 Author Posted February 1, 2011 Hi Shaun - keep in mind that she is most likely on a roller coaster too. The 180 defers really putting pressure on you and her as far as the relationship goes and gives you both time to think through the issues. It probably feels like a 180 on her part because you are pulling away from her in respect to what the relationship was before by employing the 180, the two of you aren't in the home together right now so there's that separation of self with her and vice-versa. It's part of finding out what you want from the relationship and how to proceed...without pressure, without making demands. And, well....most men are fixers by nature....women are nurturers by nature. Have you read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus yet?? If not, I know it sounds trite, but grab a copy and really read it. Yes, women are an enigma when it comes to communication. We like for men to fix things at times (like change the light bulb, help us paint a room)...but when it comes to a woman's feelings....well, that's when they just want to know you are listening and have empathy for what they are feeling...not fix it. Think of it this way, you are a software developer....you deal with logic all day...very little gray there. Everything is a definitive Yes/No...If this/then that....you can follow the program to the end result. If you do that here with your wife, the kids, the marriage (either we are married or we are divorced), that might give you the answer you really don't want. If she asks a question, answer it. If she sends you a greeting, send her one back....if she invites you over for dinner, do what you feel in your heart and go. The 180 doesn't have to be followed to the nth degree....you apply it where you feel it fits for you and getting your marriage back on track. In the meantime, take the time to work on the person you want to be for yourself and your family. She actually asked me to stay for dinner when I dropped off the keys to our rental. I had to get to the store because we are in the midst of a blizzard, but I really wanted to. I am not sure why she would ask me that. I accidentally told her 'I love you' as I was leaving and she just told me bye. I really have a hard time with that, but I guess it is what it is.
hopesndreams Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 11. Do not say "I Love You". It only reminds her she doesn't feel the same way.
Author slm Posted February 2, 2011 Author Posted February 2, 2011 11. Do not say "I Love You". It only reminds her she doesn't feel the same way. She loves me, she has told me recently even... But those are just words, right? It is actions that I need to be looking at.
Author slm Posted February 2, 2011 Author Posted February 2, 2011 11. Do not say "I Love You". It only reminds her she doesn't feel the same way. But I did learn that sticking myself out there and being rejected hurts really, really bad. I don't have to see her until Friday (I get my daughter) so unless she initiates I am staying away.
hopesndreams Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Words can be sweet as honey and too much honey can make us sick. There must be actions to back the words up.
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