How to integrate MM's kids to make split easier?

[bentnotbroken]

Hi Lara,

 

Welcome to LS:)...my best friends AP was in an arranged M. I am hearing more and more about them as of late. I didn't think they were as common as I am noticing recently.

 

Arranged M are wrong IMO...as for the kids, let it flow natural. I wouldn't try to push anything too soon. These kids having been living the lie with their parents..the kids themselves are not a lie, although the M is.

 

Please be careful...my best friend is broken now because of that R. He was torn trying to do the right thing by all of the parents (hers and his)...I feel so bad for those involved in these arranged M's and wouldn't have a clue as to how to deal with the kids...they have to be hurting horribly.

 

I have to bring up also what JT quoted...please make sure that this is right for you...k...

 

 

What in the OP's post leads to the assumption that the children are hurting? If their culture is one that arranged marriages are more frequent than in western cultures, why would they be living a lie or in pain?

[Mrlonelyone]

Mrlonelyone: interesting to think why am i resistant to meeting her? could be my problem, but as you say it would be better for her to know that I am a good person. her kids told her they liked me (and i know this must be hard for her too). I have met my ex's girlfriend and it is good to know who is sharing my kids lives. i just feel it is too soon/too raw and issues of clarity about his intentions are not clear enough to know how this will pan out yet and meet her.

 

I only want to meet his kids properly when I know that it is definitiely happening with him. My kids are aware, independent and old enough to be cool about it if it doesn't work out. It has been good for them to meet him - he is a different type of man to their dad and has fitted in really well without making a big deal of it. A way to go yet in defining this relationship tho...

 

 

Not the kids his wife.

 

Let me tell you a short story. Pocahontas met John Smith in England. She had been told years earlier that Smith had drowned. She said to Smith, "I had been told your people will lie much."

 

Trust me. MEET HIS WIFE (NOT HIS KIDS HIS WIFE)

 

Pakistanis will LIE about family matters.

 

Marrying ones (Second) cousin is COMMON in Pakistan.

 

Their culture is very beautiful, ancient, exotic, and DIFFERNT than ours.

 

In your mans heart of hearts he would like it if you were his second wife.

 

I say that with no Islamophobia I am a Muslim and I am deeply personally involved with a Pakistani family. ( I have an illegeitimate son by such a woman. They do not acknowledge me as his father at all. I found out from a lawyer today that no one is on record as his legal father.) Trust me they can and will in the name of their HONOR tell HUGE LIES.

 

Meet his WIFE. Meet his wife. Meet his wife and make sure she understands that you mean for him to divorce her. Divorce her by "tripple taloc". In front of everyone in the Masjid so that under Sharia she will be divorced from him or guess what... You'll end up being his second wife under Sharia. (Which in the UK in family court has the force of law if I am not mistaken.)

[Mrlonelyone]

He isn't going to go against his religion and family, and sorry to say this, but I don't believe he will leave his wife, divorce her and move his children in to your place, so you can be step mom to his children. His wife won't allow that.

 

Also, I take it you're not Muslim? Another reason why his family won't accept you. If he has to choose, do you truly believe he will give up the life he knows, his community, his wife, family unit as one to be with you?

 

Sorry but I think he's in it for an affair. He's happy that you are the OW, you provide something for him. Right now he's all talk and sadly for you, that's all it's going to be.

 

If you push him or take matters into your own hands, he will dump you and make it look like you were the one chasing him, and throw you under the bus.

 

Under traditional Sharia Muslim men may marry non-muslim women. There is no shame in that.

 

However with the Pakistani's as has been my experience they want to first and foremost arrange a marriage with a man/woman from the same province/city/tribe/clan as themselves. In some cases even with the same last name, i.e. a distant cousin. Respecting that arrangement is to them above all when it comes to marriage. It is a HUGE deal for them.

 

Though I am with you. The logical part of my brain is very leery about anyone getting romantically involved with a East Indian. While successful interracial marriages exist, they are not common. Often the East Indian Spouse will loose their family for a time, up to 10 or 20 years. Most of them will not have the strength to choose love over family. Most of them will stick with the wishes of their parents, and relatives over anything.

 

Trust me OP I know just how hard it can be to deal with this issue. I have been dealing with it for a dozen years.

[alexandria35]

Well I hate to be a downer, but I don't see this situation coming out in your favor.

 

To begin with you said your MM married his wife because his family bullied him into it by withdrawing from him. IF this is true, then how do think his family is going to react to him leaving? If they were ready to cut him out of their lives simply because he didn't want to get married then they would certainly have a problem with divorce, especially since their are now children involved.

 

You speak of his past indiscretions (affairs and one nighters) like they are just a symptom of his unhappy marriage, but actually his ongoing infidelity speaks volumes about who he is as a person. Mature responsible adults don't deal with marital problems by lying and cheating. This guy has been cheating for most of his marriage, this is a serious character flaw and it will not disappear with a divorce.

 

You express concern that he is not modeling a happy marriage for his children and you believe that his children will be happy to see their father with someone other than their mother. This is a fantasy. They will not be happy to see their family broken and their mother crying. Do you think your children would be happy for anyone if that persons happiness was the cause of your pain? Also I wouldn't worry so much about the example your MM is setting for his children, worry for your own children. I have known a lot of people (family, friends and boyfriends) whose mothers have been OW and I haven't met one who didn't at some point express disgust about this once they reached adulthood. We all reach a point as adults when we look back at our parents and question the things they did and I have found that males especially dont' deal well with their mothers being involved in affairs, either as the WS or the OW.

 

You said you were in terrible emotional pain from a previous relationship and you dont' want you and your children going down that path again but you started down that path as soon as you involved yourself with a married man and swallowed his version of his marriage. I don't believe that this man is going to leave his marriage.

Edited January 13, 2011 by alexandria35
edited for spelling

[BB07]

This post should be read again and again by the OP.

 

Well I hate to be a downer, but I don't see this situation coming out in your favor.

 

To begin with you said your MM married his wife because his family bullied him into it by withdrawing from him. IF this is true, then how do think his family is going to react to him leaving? If they were ready to cut him out of their lives simply because he didn't want to get married then they would certainly have a problem with divorce, especially since their are now children involved.

 

You speak of his past indiscretions (affairs and one nighters) like they are just a symptom of his unhappy marriage, but actually his ongoing infidelity speaks volumes about who he is as a person. Mature responsible adults don't deal with marital problems by lying and cheating. This guy has been cheating for most of his marriage, this is a serious character flaw and it will not disappear with a divorce.

 

You express concern that he is not modeling a happy marriage for his children and you believe that his children will be happy to see their father with someone other than their mother. This is a fantasy. They will not be happy to see their family broken and their mother crying. Do you think your children would be happy for anyone if that persons happiness was the cause of your pain? Also I wouldn't worry so much about the example your MM is setting for his children, worry for your own children. I have known a lot of people (family, friends and boyfriends) whose mothers have been OW and I haven't met one who didn't at some point express disgust about this once they reached adulthood. We all reach a point as adults when we look back at our parents and question the things they did and I have found that males especially dont' deal well with their mothers being involved in affairs, either as the WS or the OW.

 

You said you were in terrible emotional pain from a previous relationship and you dont' want you and your children going down that path again but you started down that path as soon as you involved yourself with a married man and swallowed his version of his marriage. I don't believe that this man is going to leave his marriage.

[Quiet Storm]

You are wasting your time worrying about the logistics of this, because IMO, this guy is not going to leave his marriage.

 

Even if he did, you are just setting up yourself for more heartache. He'll start having one night stands while he is traveling, with you none the wiser. He probably already has, while he is with you.

 

I think you are living in a dream world.

 

It is good that you are questioning things with him and asking for a firm commitment, because that will help you to see reality quicker.

 

Once the pressure is on, he will begin to act differently towards you.

 

Instead of being his fun escape, you now have expectations.

 

He will string you along for as long as you allow it, with promises and talks about the future. He does that because it keeps you happy and content for awhile. When you get sick of it and break it off, he'll probably beg you back again...but only to keep you where he wants you to be. He wants you to be available for him at his convenience. All the love talk is just to keep you faithful...men don't like to share their toys.

 

But that is all it is...all talk and no show.

[carhill]

Also, once the man chooses to leave his marriage and this becomes widely known, he loses power. Power is important to most men, especially to men who are serial philanderers. It's an extension of their power in business and society. Women are part of their power base. The more women they control (whether overtly or benevolently, as 'collectors'), the more powerful they are perceived as. This is social proof.

 

I'll be interested to read what comes of the 'talk'.

[GreenEyedLady]

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

 

First, it's like virgins answering the question: What does sex feel like?

 

And for the majority of the posts (I think maybe 2 posters actually addressed the question the poster ACTUALLY asked) they are totally off topic and are really opinions on whether the MM will actually leave or not. Not what the OP was asking at all.

 

OP: the way that kids are introduced is dependent on the person involved. My MM and his W separated, and we moved in together right away. I met his children a month later. One was with his now XW and two were from a previous R. The two older ones were teenagers and they have a say as to who they want to go with for how much time because of their ages. Now his child with the XW loved me from the beginning, and was much younger (5). The courts decided visitation and there was nothing the X could do about it.

 

Blending families is tricky. We went to counseling and he went to IC. I have two of my own children who are with us 60% of the time. It was bumpy at first (blending two families together) but eventually, everything settles down and their is a new reality.

 

You need to think about whether he shares your values, parenting style etc. Do you really want to be with him? This is a rocky road and a lot of couples don't make it because they don't communicate and they don't trust one another.

 

I have traveled this road. I have been married to my H for over 2 years now. He was divorced within 6 months of their separation. There was no back and forth and she didn't know about me until her child met me.

 

Because it is a long distance relationship, be careful to guard your heart. I am sure he is lying about several things that you won't find out about until later. It goes with the territory.

 

Also, he needs to work on changing why he thinks it is ok to betray a vow he has made, no matter WHY he made it. You might find you really don't like his views. You might not be compatible in the day to day. Be careful.

 

And take what you read here with a grain of salt. Most posters are BS's or don't like OW, even if they were one, once. The OW seem to have been run off. Keep posting and take what helps and leave the rest.

 

GEL

[NoIDidn't]

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

 

First, it's like virgins answering the question: What does sex feel like?

 

And for the majority of the posts (I think maybe 2 posters actually addressed the question the poster ACTUALLY asked) they are totally off topic and are really opinions on whether the MM will actually leave or not. Not what the OP was asking at all.

 

OP: the way that kids are introduced is dependent on the person involved. My MM and his W separated, and we moved in together right away. I met his children a month later. One was with his now XW and two were from a previous R. The two older ones were teenagers and they have a say as to who they want to go with for how much time because of their ages. Now his child with the XW loved me from the beginning, and was much younger (5). The courts decided visitation and there was nothing the X could do about it.

 

Blending families is tricky. We went to counseling and he went to IC. I have two of my own children who are with us 60% of the time. It was bumpy at first (blending two families together) but eventually, everything settles down and their is a new reality.

 

You need to think about whether he shares your values, parenting style etc. Do you really want to be with him? This is a rocky road and a lot of couples don't make it because they don't communicate and they don't trust one another.

 

I have traveled this road. I have been married to my H for over 2 years now. He was divorced within 6 months of their separation. There was no back and forth and she didn't know about me until her child met me.

 

Because it is a long distance relationship, be careful to guard your heart. I am sure he is lying about several things that you won't find out about until later. It goes with the territory.

 

Also, he needs to work on changing why he thinks it is ok to betray a vow he has made, no matter WHY he made it. You might find you really don't like his views. You might not be compatible in the day to day. Be careful.

 

And take what you read here with a grain of salt. Most posters are BS's or don't like OW, even if they were one, once. The OW seem to have been run off. Keep posting and take what helps and leave the rest.

 

GEL

 

The answer to the OPs question isn't nearly as complicated as you've made it.

 

WHEN he's divorced, THEN the OP should worry about blending families.

 

Before then? Its premature.

 

No point in leading this woman down the garden path.

[pureinheart]

Also, once the man chooses to leave his marriage and this becomes widely known, he loses power. Power is important to most men, especially to men who are serial philanderers. It's an extension of their power in business and society. Women are part of their power base. The more women they control (whether overtly or benevolently, as 'collectors'), the more powerful they are perceived as. This is social proof.

 

I'll be interested to read what comes of the 'talk'.

 

Very interesting...like arm candy, a trophy...

[desertIslandCactus]

 

There was no back and forth and she didn't know about me until her child met me.

 

GEL

 

This has got to be the saddest, most Pathetic part of the whole scenario.

[AngeletteX]

This has got to be the saddest, most Pathetic part of the whole scenario.

 

Why WOULD she know?

 

OP - listen to GEL. She's probably the only one who has walked down this road thus her advice holds more water. Would you take dieting advice from an obese person? I think not.

[desertIslandCactus]

Why WOULD she know?

 

OP - listen to GEL. She's probably the only one who has walked down this road thus her advice holds more water. Would you take dieting advice from an obese person? I think not.

 

I meant that the innocent child was exposed without his or her mother's knowledge, permission.. Involving the child when the mother hadn't been told??

 

And if you wish to compare comments toward the A to "dieting advice".. I would think it is to an OW's advantage to listen to others who have avoided - or learned to abstain from the destructive relationship.

[JsSweetPea]

I meant that the innocent child was exposed without his or her mother's knowledge, permission.. Involving the child when the mother hadn't been told??

 

And if you wish to compare comments toward the A to "dieting advice".. I would think it is to an OW's advantage to listen to others who have avoided - or learned to abstain from the destructive relationship.

 

Sorry to get off topic & no disrespect is intended, desertIsland. But I think that whether or not the child's mother knew already makes no difference. Your comment makes it seem like, "Oh.. this poor child had to meet this terrible woman who *gasp* just wanted to get to know him & love him." There could be worse things. Kids can never have enough love & the child is NOT just the X's.

 

OP: I wish I had some great words of wisdom to give you but all I can say is I hope everything works out best for all involved. Maintaining long distance relationships are hard in "normal" couples & I think it'd be even harder with a MM. My opinion on the kids is that you shouldn't bring kids into a situation unless you KNOW you're in it for sure. My MM has not met my son yet, but I think that's going to happen in a few months.

 

GEL... I love reading your posts & you really give me hope that things can work out. You're a breath of fresh air around here.

[Trimmer]

Sorry to get off topic & no disrespect is intended, desertIsland. But I think that whether or not the child's mother knew already makes no difference. Your comment makes it seem like, "Oh.. this poor child had to meet this terrible woman who *gasp* just wanted to get to know him & love him." There could be worse things. Kids can never have enough love & the child is NOT just the X's.

 

Given that the topic of the thread is "how to integrate the children", I think you are directly on-topic. However, I disagree with your interpretation of desertIsland's comment. You can look at that comment, as I do, without adhering to particular judgment of the adults involved, and still be alarmed at the placement of secret and potentially explosive knowledge upon the shoulders of the child, before the mother is even aware that the EMR exists.

 

Again, without passing judgment on the adults involved, I disagree with one parent putting a child in a position of having secret knowledge about the other parent's EMR, which risks creating a real dissonance within the child, and among other things, puts the child in a position of having to choose loyalties, whether overtly or subconsciously.

 

So in this point I'm making, I'm not addressing the right or wrong of what is going on between the two spouses. My point is, that as a parent, you have a higher responsibility - to the child - to support the child's relationship with the other parent, and not to load part of your own burden of secrecy and split loyalties upon his or her shoulders.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Trimmer

[JsSweetPea]

GIven that the topic of the thread is "how to integrate the children", I think you are directly on-topic. However, I disagree with your interpretation of desertIsland's comment. You can look at that comment, as I do, without adhering to particular judgment of the adults involved, as you are inferring here, but still be alarmed at a piece of potentially explosive and secret information being put on the shoulders of the child, before the mother is even aware that the EMR exists.

 

Again, without passing judgment on the adults involved, I disagree with one parent putting a child in a position of having secret knowledge about the other parent, which risks putting the child in a position of having to choose loyalties, whether overtly or subconsciously.

 

I don't care what is going on between two spouses. As a parent, you have a higher responsibility - to the child - to support the child's relationship with the other parent, and not to load part of your burden of secrecy and split loyalties upon his or her shoulders.

 

Trimmer, I didn't even think about that. I do agree that you shouldn't put such a strain on a child by asking them to lie or cover up something. I think if a MM is STILL living with his W the kids shouldn't be involved. But in GEL's case they were separated already & there was no reason to for the child to lie or keep secrets. I'm wondering if people would feel the same way if GEL's MM had been single for quite a while. Would he still need to tell his X there's another woman in his life before she met his kids? I don't think so... In my situation I'm not telling my son's Dad (we've been separated for 4 months) before my son meets my guy. But I'm also not asking him to lie or hide anything.

[AngeletteX]

I meant that the innocent child was exposed without his or her mother's knowledge, permission.. Involving the child when the mother hadn't been told??

 

Obviously the child's FATHER wanted his child to meet GEL - after all, GEL was and is an important part of this man's life.

 

This man didn't "expose" his child to some contaminant. He introduced his child to someone he loved and envisioned a future with.

 

It has nothing to do with the exW - and everything to do with how the child's father wanted his life to proceed (with GEL). So why would he delay the future? Why would he even want to?

 

Once divorced, how the exH chooses to spend his time with his child is none of the exW's business, as long as the child isn't being abused or harmed.

 

"Permission" isn't needed. This is why the courts grant visitation - NOT stipulations.

[Trimmer]

Trimmer, I didn't even think about that. I do agree that you shouldn't put such a strain on a child by asking them to lie or cover up something. I think if a MM is STILL living with his W the kids shouldn't be involved. But in GEL's case they were separated already & there was no reason to for the child to lie or keep secrets. I'm wondering if people would feel the same way if GEL's MM had been single for quite a while. Would he still need to tell his X there's another woman in his life before she met his kids? I don't think so... In my situation I'm not telling my son's Dad (we've been separated for 4 months) before my son meets my guy. But I'm also not asking him to lie or hide anything.

I hear you, and again, I'm being very careful not to color my comments with judgments of the rights or wrongs being done by the adults to each other, because my perspective in this discussion is wholly centered around the effect on the child.

 

So I'm not even intending to opine on specifically when it's OK and when it's not OK, and under what circumstances you should or shouldn't introduce kids to the new partner, except to say that for me, the simple litmus test is, if it puts the kids in a position of dissonance, if they feel like they are burdened with secret, adult knowledge (even if the parent "doesn't intend for them to keep it secret"), then the parent owes it to the child to either work through that dissonance with them, or not burden them so. And that requires a dose of self-honestly on the part of the parent - you must really, honestly answer the questions "Why am I doing this, and what will the effect be on my child(ren)?"

 

Down to specifics, in GEL's case, yes, she was moved out, it sounds like the separation was clear and progressing, etc... Assuming the kids were not asked, expected, or intended to keep it all a secret, I don't have any comments against that.

 

I tell my kids, and I live the philosophy: "Whatever happens when you're with me is a part of your life, and you can and should share these parts of your life with mom whenever you feel like it." It's not because I particularly owe anything to my ex-Spouse; it's about attempting to create an environment for my kids in which they can continue to interact with both of us freely on both a conscious and subconscious level. I make sure they know by my words, and my attitudes and actions, that they need not hide anything from mom on my account.

 

One additional aspect of "integrating kids" that I will mention, though, is the scenario where a parent introduces kids to an affair partner early on, in the context of "just friends" or a professional relationship or something like that. This was an operative scenario at the end of my own marriage - my then-wife did some socializing with our kids together with her new partner while we were still married, while she and the OP were developing their relationship, and while I was still unaware.

 

So my concern in this scenario is that depending on the age and wisdom of the kids, if they later put the pieces together, that ol' Fred, who we got to know as mommy's "friend", turned out to be mommy's new partner after the marriage broke up, the kids might experience a sense of betrayal, as if mom was not honest with them in her introduction of them to Fred as a "friend", whether mom's intentions were deceptive, or true (e.g. she really thought Fred was "just a friend" at the time...)

 

I'm not claiming to know for sure - it's just a scenario I wondered about my own kids - and again, in this discussion, I'm not throwing stones at MM/MW or OP, but on this thread topic of when it's appropriate to integrate the kids with a new partner, I have to wonder what the experience of a reasonably wise kid is, after going through this kind of scenario and eventually, possibly, putting the pieces together, and how that might affect his/her relationship with the newly-partnered parent, with respect to trust, etc.

 

So my bottom line, as I believe about most issues of kids and separation/divorce: don't put a child in a position where they feel they have to - whether consciously or subconsciously - keep a secret, bear part of a burden that is not theirs to carry, or choose loyalties between their parents.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Trimmer

[pureinheart]

I hear you, and again, I'm being very careful not to color my comments with judgments of the rights or wrongs being done by the adults to each other, because my perspective in this discussion is wholly centered around the effect on the child.

 

So I'm not even intending to opine on specifically when it's OK and when it's not OK, and under what circumstances you should or shouldn't introduce kids to the new partner, except to say that for me, the simple litmus test is, if it puts the kids in a position of dissonance, if they feel like they are burdened with secret, adult knowledge (even if the parent "doesn't intend for them to keep it secret"), then the parent owes it to the child to either work through that dissonance with them, or not burden them so. And that requires a dose of self-honestly on the part of the parent - you must really, honestly answer the questions "Why am I doing this, and what will the effect be on my child(ren)?"

 

Down to specifics, in GEL's case, yes, she was moved out, it sounds like the separation was clear and progressing, etc... Assuming the kids were not asked, expected, or intended to keep it all a secret, I don't have any comments against that.

 

I tell my kids, and I live the philosophy: "Whatever happens when you're with me is a part of your life, and you can and should share these parts of your life with mom whenever you feel like it." It's not because I particularly owe anything to my ex-Spouse; it's about attempting to create an environment for my kids in which they can continue to interact with both of us freely on both a conscious and subconscious level. I make sure they know by my words, and my attitudes and actions, that they need not hide anything from mom on my account.

 

One additional aspect of "integrating kids" that I will mention, though, is the scenario where a parent introduces kids to an affair partner early on, in the context of "just friends" or a professional relationship or something like that. This was an operative scenario at the end of my own marriage - my then-wife did some socializing with our kids together with her new partner while we were still married, while she and the OP were developing their relationship, and while I was still unaware.

 

So my concern in this scenario is that depending on the age and wisdom of the kids, if they later put the pieces together, that ol' Fred, who we got to know as mommy's "friend", turned out to be mommy's new partner after the marriage broke up, the kids might experience a sense of betrayal, as if mom was not honest with them in her introduction of them to Fred as a "friend", whether mom's intentions were deceptive, or true (e.g. she really thought Fred was "just a friend" at the time...)

 

I'm not claiming to know for sure - it's just a scenario I wondered about my own kids - and again, in this discussion, I'm not throwing stones at MM/MW or OP, but on this thread topic of when it's appropriate to integrate the kids with a new partner, I have to wonder what the experience of a reasonably wise kid is, after going through this kind of scenario and eventually, possibly, putting the pieces together, and how that might affect his/her relationship with the newly-partnered parent, with respect to trust, etc.

 

So my bottom line, as I believe about most issues of kids and separation/divorce: don't put a child in a position where they feel they have to - whether consciously or subconsciously - keep a secret, bear part of a burden that is not theirs to carry, or choose loyalties between their parents.

 

Trimmer, I am quoting you to get your attention to let you know I really enjoy your posting style and style of communication:)

 

Both of my parents had AP's...I can't remember when I met the stepparents, although I don't remember any pressure or feeling weird, whatever.

 

I would imagine it is very difficult to be a stepparent, also meeting the kids would be hard. That would make or break the R IMO, meaning if the kids were rude and obnoxious, I'd be gone...I was. On the same note, being the kid and seeing the true colors of my stepparents, I was gone again.

[lara croft]

"First, it's like virgins answering the question: What does sex feel like?

 

And for the majority of the posts (I think maybe 2 posters actually addressed the question the poster ACTUALLY asked) they are totally off topic and are really opinions on whether the MM will actually leave or not. Not what the OP was asking at all."

 

 

 

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou! Greeneyedlady and others.

 

And so glad to hear your story

 

That is exactly what i was thinking and was sad and disappointed that I had only a few comments intended to help and answer the question, rather than moralise. I have obviously asked all the doubting questions already, and my issue now is "how can it work?". relationship has been only going for 8 months, wife has known for 4 months, so there has been positive changes (just need to make sure they continue), wife definitely knows, it is not long distance - he lives very close to me, he is completely westernised - in fact now has really interesting conversations with muslims about issues like the koran saying men can have 4 wives and beat them with the back of their hand. I believe statistics are probabilities, every situation is its own and sometimes things work (with love , wisdom and effort).

Thankyou so much for your reply. i have to go out now but will spend more time reading later and re post.

[woinlove]

I hear you, and again, I'm being very careful not to color my comments with judgments of the rights or wrongs being done by the adults to each other, because my perspective in this discussion is wholly centered around the effect on the child.

 

So I'm not even intending to opine on specifically when it's OK and when it's not OK, and under what circumstances you should or shouldn't introduce kids to the new partner, except to say that for me, the simple litmus test is, if it puts the kids in a position of dissonance, if they feel like they are burdened with secret, adult knowledge (even if the parent "doesn't intend for them to keep it secret"), then the parent owes it to the child to either work through that dissonance with them, or not burden them so. And that requires a dose of self-honestly on the part of the parent - you must really, honestly answer the questions "Why am I doing this, and what will the effect be on my child(ren)?"

 

Down to specifics, in GEL's case, yes, she was moved out, it sounds like the separation was clear and progressing, etc... Assuming the kids were not asked, expected, or intended to keep it all a secret, I don't have any comments against that.

 

I tell my kids, and I live the philosophy: "Whatever happens when you're with me is a part of your life, and you can and should share these parts of your life with mom whenever you feel like it." It's not because I particularly owe anything to my ex-Spouse; it's about attempting to create an environment for my kids in which they can continue to interact with both of us freely on both a conscious and subconscious level. I make sure they know by my words, and my attitudes and actions, that they need not hide anything from mom on my account.

 

One additional aspect of "integrating kids" that I will mention, though, is the scenario where a parent introduces kids to an affair partner early on, in the context of "just friends" or a professional relationship or something like that. This was an operative scenario at the end of my own marriage - my then-wife did some socializing with our kids together with her new partner while we were still married, while she and the OP were developing their relationship, and while I was still unaware.

 

So my concern in this scenario is that depending on the age and wisdom of the kids, if they later put the pieces together, that ol' Fred, who we got to know as mommy's "friend", turned out to be mommy's new partner after the marriage broke up, the kids might experience a sense of betrayal, as if mom was not honest with them in her introduction of them to Fred as a "friend", whether mom's intentions were deceptive, or true (e.g. she really thought Fred was "just a friend" at the time...)

 

I'm not claiming to know for sure - it's just a scenario I wondered about my own kids - and again, in this discussion, I'm not throwing stones at MM/MW or OP, but on this thread topic of when it's appropriate to integrate the kids with a new partner, I have to wonder what the experience of a reasonably wise kid is, after going through this kind of scenario and eventually, possibly, putting the pieces together, and how that might affect his/her relationship with the newly-partnered parent, with respect to trust, etc.

 

So my bottom line, as I believe about most issues of kids and separation/divorce: don't put a child in a position where they feel they have to - whether consciously or subconsciously - keep a secret, bear part of a burden that is not theirs to carry, or choose loyalties between their parents.

 

That's an excellent post and kudos to you for taking such a loving and responsible position toward your children. Affairs are often fraught with perils for children. Teenagers, in particular, who are still at home and old enough to figure things out, are sometimes particularly hard hit. But, even having one solid parent, who looks out for their best interests no matter what, makes a world of a difference.

 

Lara, I think asking how to make the situation with his children "less hard for MM" is the wrong question. If he and their mother do right for their children, whether they divorce or not, things will fall into place.

[desertIslandCactus]

Sorry to get off topic & no disrespect is intended, desertIsland. But I think that whether or not the child's mother knew already makes no difference. Your comment makes it seem like, "Oh.. this poor child had to meet this terrible woman who *gasp* just wanted to get to know him & love him." There could be worse things. Kids can never have enough love & the child is NOT just the X's.

 

 

SP, The OW has already invaded the M. To involve the innocent children is as bad as can be.

 

This is not love. This is declaring one's unearned territory.

[jthorne]

The answer to the OPs question isn't nearly as complicated as you've made it.

 

WHEN he's divorced, THEN the OP should worry about blending families.

 

Before then? Its premature.

 

No point in leading this woman down the garden path.

Exactly. In fact, the OP's question, IMO, is quite superfluous as it's putting the cart before the horse. There's another thread on the Parenting board by an OW, asking about age differences among kids in case she decides to have another child with her "boyfriend," who just so happens to be married. Same thing- cart before the horse.

 

OP, I am in no means trying to be snarky here, but I do hope that you are getting regular STD tests if you are having unprotected sex with this man.

[lara croft]

@font-face { font-family: "Times New Roman"; }p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; }table.MsoNormalTable { font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; }div.Section1 { page: Section1; } just spend a while replying but lost my message - arghh! will have to precis what i wrote.

 

as carhill pointed out I am a big girl and am aware of all issues and have made balanced decisions in this. Not going to defend myself or him. no need.

 

MM is also balanced and quite rightly is wobbly about his kids. He wanted to be able to spend some nights in the house with his wife and kids as he doesn't want them to feel abandoned (and also probably cos he does not want his position to change as head of the household!). In one conversation he said he may never be able to leave the house (after he had a difficult conversation with wife), but most other conversations have been talking about "easing in".

 

latest conversations are about timescale and planning. at present he spends approx half the time with me and half with them, bearing in mind he is working away half the month, this does not leave alot of time to play with). He says it may take a year or 2 to make this transition but he cannot guarantee the timescale. He has said he won’t ever make a promise that he can’t keep – something I respect (as long it doesn’t use that as an excuse not to make a decision).

 

My wobbles are: what if he really can't do it? How much time and love can I invest and is it right that I proceed without a definitive timescale? (my instinct is not much). He has been jealous of my ex boyfriends so i agreed to not have any contact with them, so it seems like he wants security with out being able or willing to give it to me. but then again , i know that working out the kids thing is harder.

 

I don't want him to spend nights away - we seem to be in a limbo land right now. The longer it goes on like this, IMO the more anguish it causes to all. But he feels the right way is bit by bit and let people get used to the changes. OR - as i suggested to him - is he trying to reduce HIS pain and avoid making a decision? It is relatively early days, wife has only known for 4 months, so i know things take time.

 

Not sure tho how much time I can give it and if it will be harder to achieve clarity the longer this goes on. I guess it depends what changes happen. It is messy!

 

As GEL says, I will take some posts with a pinch of salt. Thanks again to all those who have offered helpful opinions.

[jthorne]

He says it may take a year or 2 to make this transition but he cannot guarantee the timescale. He has said he won’t ever make a promise that he can’t keep – something I respect (as long it doesn’t use that as an excuse not to make a decision).

So he's already set you up for faliure and you respect him for it.

 

He has been jealous of my ex boyfriends so i agreed to not have any contact with them, so it seems like he wants security with out being able or willing to give it to me.

NO MA'AM. It's not security he wants, it's CONTROL. And you're giving it to him.

I don't want him to spend nights away - we seem to be in a limbo land right now.

Par for the course in affairs. Buckle your seatbelt.

The longer it goes on like this, IMO the more anguish it causes to all.

Nope, the more anguish it causes YOU. He's just fine, since he has you where he wants you, ditching your exes.

It is messy!

Yeah, affairs usually are. Good luck. And don't forget about those tests.