A happy thread for the Happy Other Woman/Man

[KarmasTestDummy]

Karma, you must like the rollercoaster since you are going to keep on riding it. Also I find it odd in your post above how you say "you LET" people here convince you that your mm was a liar and you let people scare the crap out of you. Are you a grown woman or just someone who is that easily influenced in that you'd let a bunch of strangers convince you of what you were sure of. Perhaps you are doing a little blame shifting yourself and you weren't sure at all? And come on..........you came here all happy uh? Most don't come here happy as evidenced by the majority of the posts and hell no I'm not reading anything into them, it's pretty clear and I don't think you were happy, you had doubt right? Maybe your institution was trying to tell you something? Just stuff maybe you should mull over but of course you don't want to hear anything negative now as it might mess up your perception of that wonderful relationship you have with the man who is still with his wife and plays happy family with you when he comes over and oh yeah that man who is cheating his REAL family out of his time and attention among other things. Notice the empthasis on plays cause that is all it is RIGHT NOW, but if you are OK with that then so be it.

 

When I first came here we were together and I sought this place out as a safehouse for people in emr. I thought I would find other women going through my situation, who could provide evidence that I wasn't crazy for falling for a mm. That's not at all what I found. Instead I found people sayin time and time again how wrong it was and how it was doomed and that I was setting myself up for a long term drawn out misery. Yup, I allowed

Myself to be influenced and read into the horror stories and get scared. So be it...but I'm not doing it anymore. So please let my past flip flopping go and give me the benefit of the doubt to do what feels right to me.

[BB07]

When I first came here we were together and I sought this place out as a safehouse for people in emr. I thought I would find other women going through my situation, who could provide evidence that I wasn't crazy for falling for a mm. That's not at all what I found. Instead I found people sayin time and time again how wrong it was and how it was doomed and that I was setting myself up for a long term drawn out misery. Yup, I allowed

Myself to be influenced and read into the horror stories and get scared. So be it...but I'm not doing it anymore. So please let my past flip flopping go and give me the benefit of the doubt to do what feels right to me.

 

OK........I won't harp on you, that isn't my nature but I hope you can keep an open mind as to ALL the possibilities.

 

Be smart and listen to your intuition..........KTD.

[hoping2heal]

OP, while you may have only wanted to find some happy stories from other, OW you had to of known this wasn't really going to go that way, right?

 

The thing is, It is a bit like coming on here and saying "I would like to start a thread about all of the people who are enjoying being wealth with the money they have been embezzling, like I have. Oh, I have taken some really great trips and my home is beautiful."

 

Much like that scenario you get what you want because you are dishonest as is your partner and you betray other people to have it. Does anyone honestly root for that?

 

That is something you are going to have to get used too. You may feel that is unfair but those are the breaks. My brother in law is constantly paying fines or spending jail time because he chooses to spend his time involved in illegal activity. He hurts his family and himself. He gets angry that people don't trust him, well that's the breaks. You want to put your energy into doing the wrong thing, that is what happens.

 

AP often complain they feel judged. Thing is, wether people keep it to themselves or outwardly say it, most people are all thinking the same thing about you. Just as they do any other person who is deceitful and dishonest and is okay with hurting other people to have what they want. There is certainly a group of people who have the same mentality and understand it, that is probably where you will get support. You need people who are fundamentally okay with having affairs because anyone else will either tell you the truth or resent you privately.

 

I think you would do well to follow jennie jennie's advice and focus what you are getting out of the affair for now, and overlook the more obvious elements. As they say "ignorance is bliss".

[Ellin]

Why should someone have to come to terms? Doesn't that imply that you are accepting less than you want? Why should someone accept less than that want on the most important aspects of a relationship?

 

Life is very much about accepting less than we want. One reason is because we always want more than what we have and it's natural.

 

We want our lives to be perfect. We would like to have a job involving something that is our passion, so that we don't get bored and tired with it, and a job we could do within hours that suit our family life. And one that would bring us a lot of money, good career prospects and the guarantee that we can keep it for as long as we need it.

 

How many of us have it exactly this way? But we accpet jobs that are available because we cannot afford to have none until we find the ideal one.

 

Someone might want to have a family and ideally two children, a boy and a girl. Then it might turn out that the person they married is infertile. Or they manage to only conceive one child. Or only boys, while they want a daughter. What then?

 

We all would like to live in lovely big houses and have plenty of fantastic holidays, have good health always, a circle of wonderful friends and close family around, but for many it's not possible. Should they not accept the life they have?

 

Why spend our lives despairing over what we don't have instead of appreciating what we do have? Years go by really fast..

 

We have to deal with what life brings us and try to make most of it in the way that suits our particular situation. Often forcing things to be different leads us nowhere.

 

An OW might want a full R with the man they love who happens to be a MM, but they also want to be with the man they LOVE, not just some other "random" man, who's nice and ticks all the boxes. They already love a man and leaving him in order to try and force themselves to forget about him for an off chance that maybe one day they'll meet someone else who will be good enough is in no way a recipe for quick happiness.

 

Love IS one of the most important aspects of the R.

[BB07]

Life is very much about accepting less than we want. One reason is because we always want more than what we have and it's natural.

 

We want our lives to be perfect. We would like to have a job involving something that is our passion, so that we don't get bored and tired with it, and a job we could do within hours that suit our family life. And one that would bring us a lot of money, good career prospects and the guarantee that we can keep it for as long as we need it.

 

How many of us have it exactly this way? But we accpet jobs that are available because we cannot afford to have none until we find the ideal one.

 

Someone might want to have a family and ideally two children, a boy and a girl. Then it might turn out that the person they married is infertile. Or they manage to only conceive one child. Or only boys, while they want a daughter. What then?

 

We all would like to live in lovely big houses and have plenty of fantastic holidays, have good health always, a circle of wonderful friends and close family around, but for many it's not possible. Should they not accept the life they have?

 

Why spend our lives despairing over what we don't have instead of appreciating what we do have? Years go by really fast..

 

We have to deal with what life brings us and try to make most of it in the way that suits our particular situation. Often forcing things to be different leads us nowhere.

 

An OW might want a full R with the man they love who happens to be a MM, but they also want to be with the man they LOVE, not just some other "random" man, who's nice and ticks all the boxes. They already love a man and leaving him in order to try and force themselves to forget about him for an off chance that maybe one day they'll meet someone else who will be good enough is in no way a recipe for quick happiness.

 

Love IS one of the most important aspects of the R.

 

I think you completely missed the last line of what you quoted of my post......."Why should someone accept less than that want on the most important aspects of a relationship?" The emphasis is on the important aspects.

 

Of course in relationships we compromise, but the role of OW in most cases is too big of a compromise for most. That pretty much sums up what I was saying.

[Ellin]

I think it is unfair to say that my situation is sad and that I'm fooling myself and just in denial. Yes, I have been all over the place...this is a rollercoaster. I have never done anything like this and I came here happy and allowed all the negativity and worst case scenarios to scare the crap out of me. And then, I proceeded to let people convince me that my mm was a liar and insincere. So you bet, all that made me second guess. An almost d-day where he felt forced to choose between a 10 year marriage or a woman he'd known just a couple of months shook things up. Of course he wasn't ready to make that sacrifice yet but he also wasn't ready to just walk away from the possibility either. I don't care anymore. I'm not letting other opinions on how may R should proceed or what timeline I should set for it to muddy up my perspective. I think the second I started listening to my head and heart instead of the negativity I started giving it my all and it's making all the difference not having my emotions all over the place. So nobody can decide if I'm happy but me. Maybe Jennie has a point...I am more unapologetic than happy, but all the same I'm with a man I love and it's good enough for me...imagine that.

 

I understand what you're talking about. When I came on LS first I was in pain and sought support and understanding, which I did get from several posters, but not without the heap of negativity thrown over me by others.

 

There have been many threads in which OW and such asked for their choices to be respected but they might as well have said nothing and the effect would have been the same. You've made your choice but that doesn't matter, some posters "have to" tell you to make a different one, even use manipulative tactics to try and make you.

 

When I read your OP I knew that it wouldn't be long before the gloomy posts start coming, but I didn't think it would be that quick.. When you want to have just one thread in the stream of misery that is a happy one, why oh why do these people that aren't happy with whatever feel such need to participate?

[Ellin]

I think you completely missed the last line of what you quoted of my post......."Why should someone accept less than that want on the most important aspects of a relationship?" The emphasis is on the important aspects.

 

Of course in relationships we compromise, but the role of OW in most cases is too big of a compromise for most. That pretty much sums up what I was saying.

 

Well, then maybe you missed the last line of my reply.

 

And it is up to every person to decide if it is too big of a compromise for them or not. Those you addressed your post to seem to have decided.

[whichwayisup]

 

It takes time to come to terms with being the OW. Karma's relationship is still new. It is not at all surprising to me that it has taken her time to get her thoughts and emotions in order. In fact she is moving pretty quickly through this process compared to the time it took me.

 

You don't see that as settling, and I guess most happy OW don't either.. But, most DO see that as settling - Difference of opinions I guess.. Agree to disagree.

 

One thing is, K, you haven't spent years and years pining for a man who will never be all yours. Its not even been a full year yet and you're this far in and deep. That is scary and yes, you know yourself best but most who read your words can see the fear you have of losing him, so to hang onto bits and pieces that he can offer you is your only way to have him in your life. It is sad, but it's your life.

 

My theme I've said all along, please, shield your heart..Don't let yourself mould completely into his life, his being and his drama. Live your own life too! Don't spend all your energy and love on someone who isn't dedicated to you only you. Be with friends, family and do your hobbies, have fun. Don't make him your number one and drop everything to rush to his side because he's able to make 'time' for you on certain days or afternoons.

[woinlove]

Love IS one of the most important aspects of the R.

 

IMO, one of the most important aspects of any R is that it makes us love ourselves even more. And that is the aspect that appears to be missing in almost all of the EMAs described by LS posters. Whether it is settling on things too important, shame associated with the secrecy and deception involved, getting too involved in the emotional contradictions of a double life, dealing with broken MM/MW, or something else ... not many examples of the OW/OM's self-esteem growing as the affair continues on.

[Hazyhead]

I think you completely missed the last line of what you quoted of my post......."Why should someone accept less than that want on the most important aspects of a relationship?" The emphasis is on the important aspects.

 

Of course in relationships we compromise, but the role of OW in most cases is too big of a compromise for most. That pretty much sums up what I was saying.

 

Agree wholeheartedly.

 

KTD, I wish you well. If I were you though, I wouldn't criticise those who have posted on your threads, of which the majority have been full of concern. For good reason. I hope this relationship brings you more happiness than pain. I'm sorry but I doubt it will.

[Ellin]

IMO, one of the most important aspects of any R is that it makes us love ourselves even more. And that is the aspect that appears to be missing in almost all of the EMAs described by LS posters. Whether it is settling on things too important, shame associated with the secrecy and deception involved, getting too involved in the emotional contradictions of a double life, dealing with broken MM/MW, or something else ... not many examples of the OW/OM's self-esteem growing as the affair continues on.

 

I don't disagree with you that As can be extremely painful but that doesn't contradict my post. The bottom line is, it all depends on personal perspective.

[Hazyhead]

IMO, one of the most important aspects of any R is that it makes us love ourselves even more. And that is the aspect that appears to be missing in almost all of the EMAs described by LS posters. Whether it is settling on things too important, shame associated with the secrecy and deception involved, getting too involved in the emotional contradictions of a double life, dealing with broken MM/MW, or something else ... not many examples of the OW/OM's self-esteem growing as the affair continues on.

 

As an OW, especially as the A goes on, it is unfortunately too common that you have to settle for a lesser version of yourself too.

 

I think you have more to give than this R offers you, KTD.

[KarmasTestDummy]

KTD, here's your first post at LS http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t244755/

 

Re-read that and then please explain how we influenced you and scared you. You came here with a broken heart, seeking advice on how to regain the woman you were before you entered into the A.

 

Everytime you've gotten "happy" with him, HE's done something to pull you back down. Throwing you under the bus, returning home against his promises to you, etc.

 

It is not the posters at LS that are causing this rollercoaster for you. Please remember that. If you're happy with your current situation, then fine, it's no one else's business as to what you want or decide to do. I just remember the pain in all your posts, starting with the first, which is why I respond in the first place.

 

I'll reply further but please know I came here well before I ever made my first post.

[BB07]

When I read your OP I knew that it wouldn't be long before the gloomy posts start coming, but I didn't think it would be that quick.. When you want to have just one thread in the stream of misery that is a happy one, why oh why do these people that aren't happy with whatever feel such need to participate?

 

IMO......everyone has been respectful in KTD's thread although it seems your idea of support is for LS posters to refrain from posting what some might consider negative.

 

Last time I checked LS isn't a forum where the members get to dictate how to respond nor who can respond within the TOS agreement of course.

 

If some OW feel that they can't get what they need and want here perhaps they should create their own supportive environment in which they get to create the rules and they can ban who ever might disagree with them or offer something that they might consider negative or rain on their parade.

 

IMO..........most posters come here to hear differing opinions. In other words........the people who want smoke blown up their ass are in the minority and are not reflective on what people come here for.

[BB07]

Well, then maybe you missed the last line of my reply.

 

And it is up to every person to decide if it is too big of a compromise for them or not. Those you addressed your post to seem to have decided.

 

 

As I said earlier........and if I didn't make it clear, I won't be spending my time trying to change KTD's mind.

[Ellin]

IMO......everyone has been respectful in KTD's thread although it seems your idea of support is for LS posters to refrain from posting what some might consider negative.

 

Last time I checked LS isn't a forum where the members get to dictate how to respond nor who can respond within the TOS agreement of course.

 

If some OW feel that they can't get what they need and want here perhaps they should create their own supportive environment in which they get to create the rules and they can ban who ever might disagree with them or offer something that they might consider negative or rain on their parade.

 

IMO..........most posters come here to hear differing opinions. In other words........the people who want smoke blown up their ass are in the minority and are not reflective on what people come here for.

 

I can see why the discussion about respecting other people's choices is so pointless on here, since it keeps getting confused with stuff like "blowing smoke someone's ass" etc.

 

What I'm talking about has got nothing to do with that, nor with differing opinions and TOS agreement. It's just the basic rules of courtesy (and yes, the word "respect" is important here) as well as empathy and understanding. Something that I believe is important IRL and something that defines my treatment of others, regardless of different category rules and TOS established in a particular environment.

 

It's got nothing to do with being OW neither. I would say exactly the same things about a BS wanting to stay with their WS after A (for example).

Edited December 13, 2010 by Ellin

[BB07]

I can see why the discussion about respecting other people's choices is so pointless on here, since it keeps getting confused with stuff like "blowing smoke someone's ass" etc.

 

What I'm talking about has got nothing to do with that, nor with differing opinions and TOS agreement. It's just the basic rules of courtesy (and yes, the word "respect" is important here) as well as empathy and understanding. Something that I believe is important IRL and something that defines my treatment of others, regardless of different category rules and TOS established in a particular environment.

 

It's got nothing to do with being OW neither. I would say exactly the same things about a BS wanting to stay with their WS after A (for example).

 

If you are insinuating that I don't have compassion and empathy then I beg to differ. WHAT THE HELL about saying that I will no longer post to KTD in a thread about changing her mind is not respectful of her choice? Geez........:rolleyes:

 

Frankly I see that your definition of empathy and respect is to only offer what YOU consider words that are supportive, but yet you want to pick apart mine.....

[whichwayisup]

If you are insinuating that I don't have compassion and empathy then I beg to differ. WHAT THE HELL about saying that I will no longer post to KTD in a thread about changing her mind is not respectful of her choice? Geez........:rolleyes:

 

Frankly I see that your definition of empathy and respect is to only offer what YOU consider words that are supportive, but yet you want to pick apart mine.....

 

Just because BB isn't cheering K on to continue to be the OW doesn't mean she has no compassion or care!

 

I CARE too, yet I'm not being disrespectful or rude. Neither is BB, nor anybody else who has respectfully given their input and 2 cents. What is disrespectful is picking on other people who don't feel she's making a good choice. We have, just like you Ellin, to have our thoughts and opinions.

[whichwayisup]

What I'm talking about has got nothing to do with that, nor with differing opinions and TOS agreement. It's just the basic rules of courtesy (and yes, the word "respect" is important here) as well as empathy and understanding. Something that I believe is important IRL and something that defines my treatment of others, regardless of different category rules and TOS established in a particular environment.

 

If people stuck to just helping out the original poster and stopped picking apart or disagreeing with other advice given, things would be calmer on here.

 

At the end of the day does it really matter who gives the "best" advice from whomever? Why poo-poo someone else just so ONE voice or ONE camp can be heard? That's what it seems like it's coming to on here.

 

K is a grown woman and can make up her own mind, read advice , take it or leave it.

[KarmasTestDummy]

I re-read my very first post. Phew melodramatic much aren't I? Lol Yayaya I know. I sound like a walking talking contradiction today. Bare with me here, we both paniced. It was so so so brand new then. Neither of us were sure what the heck we were doing...it was just passion and intimacy and connection without having thought or talked about anything and the repercussions. He scurried off in fear, I cried a river to you all here about it.

 

I think it's what many call Live and Learn....and hopefully grow up a little. I'm not here to sound ungrateful for all the heartfelt replies i've gotten, words of wisdom and swift kicks in the butt. But please, know I'm going to do it my way and you can consider me fully warned and acting at my own risk.

[greengoddess]

If people stuck to just helping out the original poster and stopped picking apart or disagreeing with other advice given, things would be calmer on here.

 

At the end of the day does it really matter who gives the "best" advice from whomever? Why poo-poo someone else just so ONE voice or ONE camp can be heard? That's what it seems like it's coming to on here.

 

K is a grown woman and can make up her own mind, read advice , take it or leave it.

 

I honestly think it is because "they" do not want to read any negative remarks because they start thinking about their siuation and they don't want any stinkbugs in the flower bed. "They " want to keep the fantasy and not read anything that can shatter that to reality.

[whichwayisup]

I re-read my very first post. Phew melodramatic much aren't I? Lol Yayaya I know. I sound like a walking talking contradiction today. Bare with me here, we both paniced. It was so so so brand new then. Neither of us were sure what the heck we were doing...it was just passion and intimacy and connection without having thought or talked about anything and the repercussions. He scurried off in fear, I cried a river to you all here about it.

 

I think it's what many call Live and Learn....and hopefully grow up a little. I'm not here to sound ungrateful for all the heartfelt replies i've gotten, words of wisdom and swift kicks in the butt. But please, know I'm going to do it my way and you can consider me fully warned and acting at my own risk.

Glad you are laughing about it now.

 

Anyway, you know yourself best and the only thing you can control in your situation is yourself. Not MM, not his wife.

[greengoddess]

I re-read my very first post. Phew melodramatic much aren't I? Lol Yayaya I know. I sound like a walking talking contradiction today. Bare with me here, we both paniced. It was so so so brand new then. Neither of us were sure what the heck we were doing...it was just passion and intimacy and connection without having thought or talked about anything and the repercussions. He scurried off in fear, I cried a river to you all here about it.

 

I think it's what many call Live and Learn....and hopefully grow up a little. I'm not here to sound ungrateful for all the heartfelt replies i've gotten, words of wisdom and swift kicks in the butt. But please, know I'm going to do it my way and you can consider me fully warned and acting at my own risk.

 

ok so you have changed and know exactly what you have gotten yourself into and you no longer care that he goes home to his wife and are going to enjoy the ride. How has he changed? Is he more confident in living this double life now because he trusts you more to keep his secret and be discreet? What has changed within him to not panic again?

[jsb58]

Are we all to understand that you are happy being a third wheel?

 

If I were you, I would have a talk with his wife. Maybe she will let you have him all to yourself.

[fooled once]

Karma, you must like the rollercoaster since you are going to keep on riding it. Also I find it odd in your post above how you say "you LET" people here convince you that your mm was a liar and you let people scare the crap out of you. Are you a grown woman or just someone who is that easily influenced in that you'd let a bunch of strangers convince you of what you were sure of. Perhaps you are doing a little blame shifting yourself and you weren't sure at all? And come on..........you came here all happy uh? Most don't come here happy as evidenced by the majority of the posts and hell no I'm not reading anything into them, it's pretty clear and I don't think you were happy, you had doubt right? Maybe your institution was trying to tell you something? Just stuff maybe you should mull over but of course you don't want to hear anything negative now as it might mess up your perception of that wonderful relationship you have with the man who is still with his wife and plays happy family with you when he comes over and oh yeah that man who is cheating his REAL family out of his time and attention among other things. Notice the empthasis on plays cause that is all it is RIGHT NOW, but if you are OK with that then so be it.

 

agree with you BB!

 

Why should someone have to come to terms? Doesn't that imply that you are accepting less than you want? Why should someone accept less than that want on the most important aspects of a relationship?

 

Agree again.

 

what gets me is who KTD is saying basically "I will take whatever little bit I can get from a married man who goes home to his wife every night (essentially), who chooses to STAY married even though he just loves me so much".

 

I see a woman who is desperate and needy for attention and love. Even at the expense of self worth and self respect. She came here when she was 2 months into the affair, after he dumped her. And he came back and she started up again. He dumped her again, telling her he only wanted to be f*ck buddies, and when he came back, she went back again. I believe she is on her 3rd or 4th 'back together' with him. He continues to stay married, AND have an affair. He chooses to stay married and she chooses to embrace her Happy Other Woman status.

 

Great! Enjoy it. Only KTD can decide when she refuses to be 2nd. Only she can decide when is "long enough" for him to decide he only wants 1 woman in his life/bed. I can't even image how depressed a person must be to willingly accept being a Happy OW. Being grateful for each text and each hour he sneaks away to have with the OW. Not the type of life I would want. Not the type of situation I would ever want my son to see me in. I can't image playing (because that is what it is - playing pretend) happy family with someone else's spouse. I just can't wrap my head around that - especially when KTD has been dumped by him time and time again. THAT is what I find so sad - that she respects herself so little that she will continue to do that.

 

IMO......everyone has been respectful in KTD's thread although it seems your idea of support is for LS posters to refrain from posting what some might consider negative.

 

Last time I checked LS isn't a forum where the members get to dictate how to respond nor who can respond within the TOS agreement of course.

 

If some OW feel that they can't get what they need and want here perhaps they should create their own supportive environment in which they get to create the rules and they can ban who ever might disagree with them or offer something that they might consider negative or rain on their parade.

 

IMO..........most posters come here to hear differing opinions. In other words........the people who want smoke blown up their ass are in the minority and are not reflective on what people come here for.

 

Yep, if you don't agree, then you are bitter, mean, nasty, etc.....

 

I think people realy felt so much empathy and sympathy and pity for KTD. She seemed like she was really done with this mess, and got sucked back in or went back --- however you want to see it. And considering she came here when it was only 2 months old and ALL THIS DRAMA has gone down in 4 months -- kinda scary.

 

I get love. I get wanting to be with someone because you love them. I don't get enjoying and embracing being 2nd to a man who is married and stays willingly with his wife.

 

GOOD LUCK Karma.