I have just started an open war with my boss

[TaraMaiden]

In the upcoming conference there are number of social events that a few of us (my boss included) plan on going. I am now going to either not go or go and do not interact with him at all. Given current state of affairs, I can not be that fake.

 

In my conversation after the conference I plan to ask for the following:

 

Adequate supervision - either my boss will comit to meeting me for certain length of time fortnightly or they will have to find me a replacement boss. I absolutely can not work like this anymore. I do not think that this is at all unreasonable.

 

Just a thought....

You need to differentiate between business and leisure.

I tore a strip off an employee for repeatedly failing to complete a task she knew full well she was responsible for - yet after work, we all went to a bar for a drink and got on like a house on fire.

 

I call it the Wurzel Gummidge approach.

Gummidge has a set of interchangeable turnip, mangel worzel and swede heads, each of which suit a particular occasion or endow him with a specific skill.

 

When your situation is purely business, treat it as purely business.

Outside of those four walls, when work is over and done with, life goes on...

 

I would add it takes maturity and a professionally-sound attitude to behave in this way.

I'm not in any way implying you are lacking in that department.

I'm merely saying it can take practice, but can be achieved, providing you bear the rules in mind at all times. (As Anne rightly points out) anything you act on should be accomplished with a clear head. In other words, you have to be practical and unemotional.

This is a working issue, and as such, inappropriate and unwarranted emotional input has to be avoided at all costs.

[OceanGirl]

With all due respect Ariadne, you don't have a clue.

 

Art, no worries - my life is pretty hard to follow at the moment with work problems, multiple dating, still pining for someone that rejected me etc etc.

[OceanGirl]

Tara, I am highly emotional and temperamental person. It is very hard for me to act in purely logical manner. My emotions always show through. This is a problem in business. I had to practice leaving a voice mail to my boss about this issue multiple times just to be able to keep emotion out of my voice.

[TaraMaiden]

All the more reason then, to make absolutely sure that every single action you take, and step you make is done for purely correct and appropriate business reasons.

 

As they say, "Measure it twice lad, ye'll only be cutting it the once."

 

You need to be able to look back on this episode and know - for sure - 100% - that absolutely everything you have done was above board, by the book and factually and professionally correct.

 

Can you look back upon events hitherto, and say hand on heart, that everything has been?

 

I'm not goading you.

I'm honestly asking, in an effort to help you focus....

[OceanGirl]

Wow what a good question.

 

This is something that my mum asked me today.

 

Hand on heart, I have had many screw ups too. Perhaps it's time to re-think my strategy - although I took it pretty far already.

[Ariadne]

With all due respect Ariadne, you don't have a clue.

 

.............

[Art_Critic]

although I took it pretty far already.

 

Can you back track some OG.. in order to preserve order and keep your job ?

 

If you could wish it away would you wish that you had never started the war and included his boss ?

[OceanGirl]

Can you back track some OG.. in order to preserve order and keep your job ?

 

If you could wish it away would you wish that you had never started the war and included his boss ?

 

 

Sigh yes. Now thinking this through it was a bad move.

 

Not sure if I can do any damage control now. I am worried of appearing even more unstable by not following through.

[quankanne]

be honest with them while reminding them that this was set up as a joint effort: "I realize that I may have jumped the gun, because I was really concerned about following your rules on this project and acted in a manner that I know know could have been handled more efficiently."

 

you take responsiblity, yet still remind them that it's your worry over the mutual work done, nothing more.

[OceanGirl]

I got an e-mail from my boss this morning, he sounded very apologetic and was attempting to flatter me (he didn't CC his boss in this e-mail)

 

He basically said that the fact that he didn't find time to practice the talk with me is indeed unacceptable and he is deeply sorry. He went on to say that he is impressed with how I defended the talk when he attacked it and that just proves what he knew all along - how capable I really am

 

He went on to say that he will be in the audience to support me. He really wants to make it up to me by practicing the talk with me there multiple times (his is there already, I am flying in 2 days and my talk is on the last day) - he told me to call him when my plane lands and we will set it up.

 

He didn't sound angry for involving his boss making me even more convinced that he really went over the line. He also didn't address the 10 minute meetings problem.

 

Not sure if I should accept his apology and try to work things out in a peaceful manner. His e-mail made me feel pissed to be honest - like he is trying too placate me so I wouldn't go any further rather than sincere apology.

 

Thoughts on how I should proceed? I am thinking ignoring this e-mail and still asking for the supervision time to be addressed when I get back.

[donnamaybe]

accept his apology and try to work things out in a peaceful manner.

This is what I think you should do, lest you come across as just trying to put his nuts in a wringer.

 

Keep a copy of the e-mail, however. If, in the future, you get the same poor or non responses as before, you have proof that you have addressed it in the past, were under the impression the issue was understood and taken care of, and then things returned to the same old same old.

[threebyfate]

I got an e-mail from my boss this morning, he sounded very apologetic and was attempting to flatter me (he didn't CC his boss in this e-mail)

 

He basically said that the fact that he didn't find time to practice the talk with me is indeed unacceptable and he is deeply sorry. He went on to say that he is impressed with how I defended the talk when he attacked it and that just proves what he knew all along - how capable I really am

 

He went on to say that he will be in the audience to support me. He really wants to make it up to me by practicing the talk with me there multiple times (his is there already, I am flying in 2 days and my talk is on the last day) - he told me to call him when my plane lands and we will set it up.

 

He didn't sound angry for involving his boss making me even more convinced that he really went over the line. He also didn't address the 10 minute meetings problem.

 

Not sure if I should accept his apology and try to work things out in a peaceful manner. His e-mail made me feel pissed to be honest - like he is trying too placate me so I wouldn't go any further rather than sincere apology.

 

Thoughts on how I should proceed? I am thinking ignoring this e-mail and still asking for the supervision time to be addressed when I get back.

Bet his boss told him to "fix it and don't include me".

 

You should make peace since he's extended the olive branch. What I might also do is to document your acceptance of his peace offering by firstly, responding via email, next adding in a set length of time for your scheduled meetings as an addendum like "Thanks. I appreciate your offer of support for the upcoming convention and will need it. [insert whatever else you need to discuss to make it all warm and fuzzy]

 

One thing though. I really need to have more of your time for scheduled meetings than 10 minutes. What amount of time do you feel would work for you? My perspective would be [insert a slightly exaggerated amount of time so you have room to bargain down]."

[OceanGirl]

Bet his boss told him to "fix it and don't include me".

 

You should make peace since he's extended the olive branch. What I might also do is to document your acceptance of his peace offering by firstly, responding via email, next adding in a set length of time for your scheduled meetings as an addendum like "Thanks. I appreciate your offer of support for the upcoming convention and will need it. [insert whatever else you need to discuss to make it all warm and fuzzy]

 

One thing though. I really need to have more of your time for scheduled meetings than 10 minutes. What amount of time do you feel would work for you? My perspective would be [insert a slightly exaggerated amount of time so you have room to bargain down]."

 

TBF, exactly my thoughts on what his boss told him. At least they didn't gang up against me which is what I pretty much expected. Despite them being friends, things are not 100% corrupted. His boss is 64 year old and has a general reputation of being a fair man.

 

I will reply exactly as you said - adding the length and frequency of meetings caveat. This is the perfect time to bargain.

 

Again, your advice is much appreciated

[threebyfate]

TBF, exactly my thoughts on what his boss told him. At least they didn't gang up against me which is what I pretty much expected. Despite them being friends, things are not 100% corrupted. His boss is 64 year old and has a general reputation of being a fair man.

 

I will reply exactly as you said - adding the length and frequency of meetings caveat. This is the perfect time to bargain.

 

Again, your advice is much appreciated

You're welcome OG. Good luck with this. You'll make it work for you.

[TaraMaiden]

TBF, exactly my thoughts on what his boss told him. At least they didn't gang up against me which is what I pretty much expected. Despite them being friends, things are not 100% corrupted. His boss is 64 year old and has a general reputation of being a fair man.

 

I will reply exactly as you said - adding the length and frequency of meetings caveat. This is the perfect time to bargain.

 

Again, your advice is much appreciated

 

My personal opinion is this:

Write a formal e-mail accepting his apology, and regretting (not "I'm sorry" but "I regret") that things had to progress to this level. You are happy to shelve and put aside your grievances in this matter, and hope you can both put it behind you, on the proviso that this marks the progress to a more mutually acceptable level of professional co-operation.

You would be very happy to have a meeting with him.... etc etc etc.....

 

And CC to his boss.

Definitely.

This shows your business maturity and attitude - and covers your arse.

[Star Gazer]

Always assume there's someone (here, his boss) that's BCC:'d.

[anne1707]

I agree with TBF and Tara - you need to be reasonable and mature in your response and also show that you are wanting to move on from this issue by making positive suggestions/actions for improving the situation.

 

Still document everything as I suggested earlier - my concern is that this could still backfire on you (which again is why it is so important for you to be calm and measured)

[OceanGirl]

I haven't received a reply yet but then again this is not urgent and can wait until next week.

 

Anne, I know that this can all backfire. As I said, I am not too concerned with losing this job. Two years ago when I was seriously thinking of leaving because I couldn't get over my feelings for the boss - I have sent one job application, had one interview and got a job offer. I didn't take it, but options are there and now I have even more experience and research publications.

 

I am still willing to work things out here but I am not willing to work under current conditions with no improvement indefinitely.

 

P.S. Regardless of what happens now, I will most likely be leaving in a year anyway - to take up a position in NYC

[Art_Critic]

And CC to his boss.

Definitely.

This shows your business maturity and attitude - and covers your arse.

 

I wouldn't advise CC'ng his boss on this issue any further.

 

When an upper gets brought into an email loop and then discusses it with the proper parties and a resolution is decided on the last thing he wants is more email to read.

 

CC'ng someone's boss at work doesn't show business maturity..

It shows a willingness to not work on the issues if a resolution was already handed down and will only hurt the person doing the CC'ng.

[OceanGirl]

Art - I didn't CC his boss anymore. I took a cue from my boss not copying him in in the last e-mail.

 

I basically asked my boss for a meeting once a fortnight that will last 30-60 minutes of uninterrupted time. I don't think it is too much to ask at all. I have also said that if he can not commit to this - that I am more than happy for alternative supervision to be arranged for me.

 

He didn't respond. I will not let this issue go and will bring it up in person if he doesn't end up responding. It kind of sucks as I would prefer to have his agreement in writing so that I can hold him up to it if he doesn't follow through. Maybe that is why he doesn't want to respond in writing.

[TaraMaiden]

I wouldn't advise CC'ng his boss on this issue any further.

 

When an upper gets brought into an email loop and then discusses it with the proper parties and a resolution is decided on the last thing he wants is more email to read.

I completely disagree.

OceanGirl brought him into the loop and engaged his attention on the matter, and it's only right and fitting that she demonstrates to him - officially - that the matter is being dealt with.

By cc'ing him, she's not actively seeking his input or contribution.

But as a matter of courtesy she is advising him the situation is in hand, and He need take no further action.

However, as I worded it, it clearly states that there are conditions to this matter being closed, (ie, on the proviso that this marks the progress to a more mutually acceptable level of professional co-operation.)

if this gets out of hand again, and she wishes to action some kind of report, at least she let the Boss know her conditions in advance.

 

CC'ng someone's boss at work doesn't show business maturity..

It shows a willingness to not work on the issues if a resolution was already handed down and will only hurt the person doing the CC'ng.

Not so.

It shows that they have dealt with the matter effectively, Big Boss is no longer required, but it's a heads-up that if the crap hits the fan again, she will take matters further, and this time, take it to the proper limits.

Both are 'warned and forearmed'.

If you bring someone in on something, it's common professional courtesy to let them know that progress has been made.

Especially if they are a superior.

They deserve to know their staff are acting professionally on their own initiative

[TaraMaiden]

Talk about off topic, let's talk about my topic instead....

[michelangelo]

I think you have been given a gift of autonomy by your boss and you don't even know it.

 

You are working under the assumption that you need his validation and approval more formally than you really do.

 

At this point, I think you ought to just work independently and when from time to time you need a signature, take 3 minutes, yes, 3 minutes to get it from him.

 

You could look at his not being up your behind about everything as a vote of confidence.

 

Or you can continue to think as you do now.

[amerikajin]

But then when it comes to work - he has been consistently avoiding me. Losing the friendship aspect is of no concern to me. I no longer have a crush on him and I have plenty of friends.

 

I kept reading this thread until I read this.

 

As far as I'm concerned, that's the end of the discussion. Once you lose the ability to see your work objectively by getting caught up in a crush, you lose objectivity. I would wager that he is seeing this work situation of yours more objectively than you are, which is why I think he has more instant credibility in this situation than you do. I'm not saying this to pee on your thread, but that's the way I see it.

 

I am guessing that nobody knows about your crush, but if I were the director asked to sort this out and if I knew about the crush, you would be the one to get fired, not your boss.

Edited December 4, 2010 by amerikajin

[amerikajin]

OK, now you are getting me angry. You ARE WAY off base and getting this thread on the wrong track.

 

If he was enforcing boundaries why would he invite me to go to an a)opera, b) his bay party c)dinner and bar and all this last week? Why would he chat to me there all night and buy me drinks? There were 4 other co-workers too, but he was the organizer and he certainly didn't have to invite me.

 

Yet at work he completely avoids professional meetings with me. Shouldn't it be the other way around if he was enforcing boundaries?

 

Please don't turn this into my past crush on him (and yeah during those times he was super flirty and super helpful - he enjoyed the attention). The crush is long gone, keep up with the times.

 

As for the intoxicated call, the one he e-mailed about and told me to call him at time X and I did. I didn't say a word about my dating or personal life. I was trying to arrange the time for my talk rehearsal to which he agreed only to cancel at the last minute.

 

Oh geeze...come on, take some responsibility, man. You totally took a professional relationship and tried to make it a personal one, and now you're bitter about the outcome, and now you're letting it affect your work. Maybe he did the same, in which case, if I were the head dude in charge, you both would be on a really short leash.

 

Be an adult about this.