American Women: Threatened by Foreign Women?

[sweetjasmine]

your blatantly xenophobic stereotypes

 

You mean kind of like your descriptions of American women?

[sally4sara]

This thread has been around for a long while. Never once did any woman of any nationality speak speak ill of non American women.

 

So who is threatened by who?

 

There has been plenty ill spoken of American women tho - and not by foreign women.

 

So who is threatened by who?

 

I'm pretty sure it wasn't the OP's intent, but he's done a bang up job of showing how threatened by American women he is and lead lots of other fellas by the nose to accidentally show how threatened they are too.

[aerogurl87]

I don't feel threatened. Of course, I'm off the market permanently and Mr.hoping2heal is not of American descent . I don't see what there is to be threatened about when not every American woman wants an American man. There are plenty of men to go around. All the women in my family are married to "foreign men" also. We like culture If the American men are going elsewhere, it really is not a problem. A lot of us women are going elsewhere too and that does not have to be a negative thing.

 

This is pretty much how I feel, lol. There's plenty of men out there for all the women in the world. Not that I care because my boyfriend is Irish Canadian so I'm not all too worried about all American men running off to go be with women of another nationality. Live and let live.

[112233]

Are they dating their own au pairs? Because I find dating the nanny (or anyone you employ, particularly in a domestic way) a bit gross. Other than that, the girl has a job, works in this country legally, completely unrelated to the guy. . . Sounds completely legitimate to me.

 

I don't know about UF but for instance, a very good friend of mine from Eastern Europe met an Au Pair from the old country at the local gym. They're now married and have kids and no one who knows them casually knows their story, so they face no shaming to speak of. Another friend, who used to vacation a lot in SEA and who married a Thai woman faces almost daily scorn from female acquaintances. Funny enough, his bride was already a US citizen when he met her here in America, but the fact she's a different ethnicity (he's white) and has an accent are all it takes.

 

It happens she's petite and pretty and he's ... not, but she was already a green card holder with a small business when they met. Local women still mutter "getting her green card" and such nonsense in their wake. It's sick.

 

It's this sort of soul searing hatred for foreign competition that makes something like IMBRA so easy to pass.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I don't care if you choose not to read my posts ... unless you persist in responding to them, in which case I really think you ought to read them first.

I am not xenophobic, and I have not stereotyped any people from any other country. You are the one who wants American women to be threatened by foreign women. I have had nothing negative at all to say about ANY women in this thread, or about any nationality of people. I have stated repeatedly that I love exploring other cultures and think it's tremendously enriching to anyone to do so. If a person falls in love with someone from another country, like I did, good for them!

 

I read your post. You gave 3 examples of the same thing. The point of those examples was.... Only losers date foreign women. If that wasn't the point you were making then you did a very bad job of communicating it.

 

I originally made this thread because I was frustrated by the above stereotype and how often it is used by women here. I personally believe it's because they feel threatened and defensive.

 

I would like to see Hoping2Heal and aerogurl87's attitudes more prevalent.

 

Probably, just like there are right now in 2010 - like the 3 guys I wrote about (one of whom got 3 of 'em!)

And I guess you, as a fine product of the U S and A, are redolently odious and nasty yourself. What a catch you must be.

 

Stop acting like I personally rejected you.

 

And... Yes, I was fully aware that your 3 examples were passive aggressive insults.

 

Are they dating their own au pairs? Because I find dating the nanny (or anyone you employ, particularly in a domestic way) a bit gross. Other than that, the girl has a job, works in this country legally, completely unrelated to the guy. . . Sounds completely legitimate to me.

 

No, only one of my friends who is dating an Au Pair even has kids.

 

Although... Usually you get a nanny or an Au Pair to make up for some maternal skill or time that a wife is unwilling to develop or devote to her kids. It is only natural that when a guy sees another woman putting more effort or love into his children, that he finds her very attractive.

 

On the other hand, some guys just try to date the nanny because the girl is younger.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I said "you see a lot of it on this board". You do. That's just a fact, that there are a lot of threads which laud non-Western women while making derogatory comments about American women. If you think that means I'm splitting, you're free to reach that perception.

My diagnosis? On you you mean? It wouldn't be a diagnosis, it would be an opinion. That opinion of you, since you'd love to hear it, is that you express yourself like an angry adolescent. You spend lot of time making disrespectful and unpleasant comments about American/Western women on here, yet you seem to get very upset about anything you perceive as being criticism getting levelled in your direction.

 

Are you counting the threads about Woggle's mom as american woman bashing?

 

You were splitting just as much as the other posters you were complaining about. We all do it to a certain degree.

 

I don't completely disagree with your opinion. There is a reason I come across that way. It is often weighed measured and very intentional.

[sweetjasmine]

Usually you get a nanny or an Au Pair to make up for some maternal skill or time that a wife is unwilling to develop or devote to her kids. It is only natural that when a guy sees another woman putting more effort or love into his children, that he finds her very attractive.

 

Yeah, it's totally inconceivable that in this day and age with this economy, the wife's income is absolutely necessary, and the costs of paying an au pair are lower than the costs of losing her income entirely. Totally.

 

Oh wait, am I supposed to say, "Maybe if the husband were a good provider instead of a weak, effeminate loser bringing in a paltry salary, they wouldn't need to have the wife work and hire an au pair"? I'm not clear on the stupid gender bashing rules around here. Help me out a bit in ranting about how American men are slugs, please.

[allina]

when a guy sees another woman putting more effort or love into his children, that he finds her very attractive.

 

:

 

Interesting.

[112233]

Yeah, it's totally inconceivable that in this day and age with this economy, the wife's income is absolutely necessary, and the costs of paying an au pair are lower than the costs of losing her income entirely. Totally.

 

Well while the plural of anecdote is not data, every Au Pair I know has worked in homes where any one parent made a lot more than the local household median, so no, in my experience the second income was not in any way absolutely necessary.

 

 

 

Oh wait, am I supposed to say, "Maybe if the husband were a good provider instead of a weak, effeminate loser bringing in a paltry salary, they wouldn't need to have the wife work and hire an au pair"?

 

Bit of truth there to but maybe not strictly topical. Start a new thread?

[sally4sara]

A lot of Western men are nice guys because that is what the society teaches them to be. Nice guys only attract the lowest quality women. Low-quality women can basically be defined as those who will make your life worse instead of better. Women who are users and takers. Women who have absolutely nothing to offer but who want to take everything. Women who men are much better off without.

 

Higher quality women find nice guys repulsive and don't give them the time of day. Whereas low-quality women chase after, torment and try to use nice guys for their money and anything else they can get out of them. As a result the nice guys end up only dealing with low-quality trashy women. But when they deal with foreign women, they suddenly find that they have access to high quality women.

 

So all the American women that nice American men deal with are low-quality trash but they find that they can get high quality foreign women. As a result some of them naturally conclude that all American women are worthless and all foreign women are good.

 

See. The only ones in this thread who are threatened are men feeling threatened by big bad scary wimminz and they hope the ones living far away are less scary than the ones they are terrified by on the daily because their penis can't seem to get on board with their fears what with all that living in the pants and not seeing what is going on.

 

Perhaps the title should be changed to American Men: Threatened by women, but less so that LD ones? I think its a proximity thing.

 

NY men; Cali women less scary than NY women?

Cali men; NY women less scary than Cali women?

 

:lmao::lmao:

[112233]

See. The only ones in this thread who are threatened are men feeling threatened by big bad scary wimminz and they hope the ones living far away are less scary. ...

 

Nah I date and boink plenty of locals, they're fine for that but I wouldn't consider marrying most of them. Most of the good marriage material here is married already and likely to stay that way. The so called "Marriage Strike" is further evidence of this.

[sally4sara]

Nah I date and boink plenty of locals, they're fine for that but I wouldn't consider marrying most of them. Most of the good marriage material here is married already and likely to stay that way. The so called "Marriage Strike" is further evidence of this.

 

Oh you shouldn't take it personal. You're not of the vehement crowd. A bit jaded is the worst you come across as and who of us hasn't been jaded now and then.

 

But the angry insulting bunch.........well beyond jaded. More like scared rabbits awaiting a pack of dogs. But that's not perceived as manly so they posture and insult. More of what I'm suspecting this forum is to many - a place to be bigger than you are IRL. Lots and lots of insults and "I'd never this or that", when IRL they'd just be glad any woman gave them a smile regardless of where she was raised. That's what makes us so scary to them. They can't stick to any of the bold statements they float in text.

[112233]

But the angry insulting bunch.........well beyond jaded.

 

Well I'm an equal opportunity irritant. Most guys who bitch and moan about "women not fulfilling their traditional role" are incapable of or unwilling to fulfill their own masculine role. They snivel and whine if a woman expects them to support her adequately, or if she judges them based on their income, etc.

 

Bunch of boners. "Whyyyyy do I have to pay for the datesssss? Booohoohoo. Snivel.

 

Start that thread if you want to argue on my side for a switch

[Taramere]

Are you counting the threads about Woggle's mom as american woman bashing?

 

You were splitting just as much as the other posters you were complaining about. We all do it to a certain degree.

 

I don't completely disagree with your opinion. There is a reason I come across that way. It is often weighed measured and very intentional.

 

Certainly we all resort to things like splitting, projection, denial etc at times. Self awareness means checking yourself for it, and asking whether you're being fair.

 

That's what I would think of, when I think of people sounding measured in the way they speak. That rather than having a kneejerk reaction to something somebody says, and escalating conflict, they respond in a way that's designed to promote useful discussion.

 

I'm curious about what you mean when you say that the anger you express about women on here is weighed, measured and intentional. Does that mean that you're not really angry, but that you put effort into sounding angry? Or does it mean that you put effort into sounding less angry than you really are? More than that, what is the outcome you're aiming for with threads like this?

[Woggle]

I will be the first one to admit that much of it is fear for me. Reading some of these horror stories ends chills up my spine and I do not want to end up like these men

[zengirl]

No, only one of my friends who is dating an Au Pair even has kids.

 

Although... Usually you get a nanny or an Au Pair to make up for some maternal skill or time that a wife is unwilling to develop or devote to her kids. It is only natural that when a guy sees another woman putting more effort or love into his children, that he finds her very attractive.

 

On the other hand, some guys just try to date the nanny because the girl is younger.

 

Well, it's not about the cheating issue even. Desiring to date anyone you employ, for any task, particularly if you sponsor their visa, they live with you, and they are dependent on that job for their home, as well as income, is extremely creepy and a bit predatory. That'd be my big issue if it was their own au pair. Whether they had a wife or not! Someone else's au pair? Seems fine to me.

 

I also don't think a lack of maternal skill is the only reason for an au pair. . . and what about paternal skill. It takes two to parent.

[sally4sara]

I also don't think a lack of maternal skill is the only reason for an au pair. . . and what about paternal skill. It takes two to parent.

 

No silly. Having a penis gets in the way of changing diapers and reading stories. Also, how can you cook and NOT burn your penis? Plus it is always getting bumped around and squished by the side of the tub when trying to give a child a bath. Fathers HAVE to hired a nanny if their wife is lacking and selfish enough to work outside of the home!

 

But its not because of some lack in the father - he'd be great at it if not for that pesky penis!

[Untouchable_Fire]

Certainly we all resort to things like splitting, projection, denial etc at times. Self awareness means checking yourself for it, and asking whether you're being fair.

That's what I would think of, when I think of people sounding measured in the way they speak. That rather than having a kneejerk reaction to something somebody says, and escalating conflict, they respond in a way that's designed to promote useful discussion.

I'm curious about what you mean when you say that the anger you express about women on here is weighed, measured and intentional. Does that mean that you're not really angry, but that you put effort into sounding angry? Or does it mean that you put effort into sounding less angry than you really are? More than that, what is the outcome you're aiming for with threads like this?

 

You tend towards being cold and clinical. It makes you sound unemotional and calculating. It gives me the feeling reading your posts that you are trying desperately to use your intellect and logic to stave off any emotion you may feel. Yet sometimes you make a rare post that is raw... and seems emotionally genuine. You may come across to other posters differently.... but that's how it seems to me.

 

You want to know what the point of this thread was. Originally I wanted to point out that from what I have now experienced it seems many, many american women fear the loss of quality available men to higher quality foreign women. They deal with this by telling lies... like all these guys are worthless or terribly flawed... otherwise they would be dating/marrying american women. Also that the foreign woman is just in it for money or a green card.

 

How many times have you seen posts like that? It's a coping mechanism for rejection and fear. The point of this thread is to let other men know how and why.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Well, it's not about the cheating issue even. Desiring to date anyone you employ, for any task, particularly if you sponsor their visa, they live with you, and they are dependent on that job for their home, as well as income, is extremely creepy and a bit predatory. That'd be my big issue if it was their own au pair. Whether they had a wife or not! Someone else's au pair? Seems fine to me.

I also don't think a lack of maternal skill is the only reason for an au pair. . . and what about paternal skill. It takes two to parent.

 

Lots of women date or want to date their boss. I don't think visa statuses would make a difference. So... It's not really all that predatory... It's more just in poor taste.

 

If there was a lack of paternal skill then they would hire a "manny" instead.

 

Most families I see with Au Pairs have a dynamic like that movie Spanglish. With an engaged quality father, and a mother who resents the effort and time the children represent.

[zengirl]

Lots of women date or want to date their boss. I don't think visa statuses would make a difference. So... It's not really all that predatory... It's more just in poor taste.

 

If there was a lack of paternal skill then they would hire a "manny" instead.

 

Most families I see with Au Pairs have a dynamic like that movie Spanglish. With an engaged quality father, and a mother who resents the effort and time the children represent.

 

Most families I've see with au pairs have absentee fathers and frazzled mothers, working with the au pair. But I wouldn't assume that's always the case or the norm -- just what I've seen.

 

Visa status and living at the place make a big difference----there's even more dependency on the job. I say this as someone who's had my visa status in a foreign country depend on a job----if I'd been sexually harassed by my boss in America, I'd feel less vulnerable, than I would've there, where my apartment (not an au pair; just provided for me by my company) and visa status were dependent upon a specific job. Luckily, I wasn't harassed or put into a bad situation.

 

I do see issues with a boss dating his or her employee as well. In all these cases, I put the greater scorn on the person with the greater power -- the employer -- regardless of gender.

[Taramere]

You tend towards being cold and clinical. It makes you sound unemotional and calculating. It gives me the feeling reading your posts that you are trying desperately to use your intellect and logic to stave off any emotion you may feel.

 

I realise this board exists partly to provide people with emotional support, but it's also a place where people can discuss and analyse things that interest them - and that's its primary function for me. If I need to discuss something on a more emotional level, I'll tend to do it with friends or family.

 

You want to know what the point of this thread was. Originally I wanted to point out that from what I have now experienced it seems many, many american women fear the loss of quality available men to higher quality foreign women. They deal with this by telling lies... like all these guys are worthless or terribly flawed... otherwise they would be dating/marrying american women. Also that the foreign woman is just in it for money or a green card.

 

How many times have you seen posts like that? It's a coping mechanism for rejection and fear. The point of this thread is to let other men know how and why.

 

If I'd seen threads here, started by American women and expressing anger or fear about the "higher quality" American men going for foreign women, then I'd understand your position. However, women aren't starting those threads. You are. I know there's a stigma attached to these foreign introduction agencies, and that people tend to associate them with desperate and somewhat unattractive men.

 

I can understand anybody using such a service would resent the stigma and want to do battle against anybody they perceive as promoting it. However, the notion that the most desirable men out there are meeting their partners through this method just doesn't seem plausible to me. As for the situation where a man is with a woman who he met through regular means (eg through friends, work or study) and who just happens to be from another country....well, I don't think I've ever seen a woman on here comment adversely about that.

[sally4sara]

I know there's a stigma attached to these foreign introduction agencies, and that people tend to associate them with desperate and somewhat unattractive men.

 

I remember when people looked side ways at folks who met through the personal ads or used online dating sites. Now its more common so the stigma is less, but the stigma began for the same reasons. The question of why would you go that route unless you found no success with the "normal" way most people meet and couple?

 

So guys using a service to find foreign brides don't experience some unusual stigma over it; they experience the same question being posed; why couldn't you use the "normal" methods?

 

Any further stigma gets attached via their reasoning. Such as "because all the 'merican wimminz don't find what I offer desirable and that makes them sucky" gets the appropriate stigma such a negative rationalization would garner. And of course, because it is a declaration against a particular group of people, those people will attach a stronger stigma to it than people not of that group.

 

These men buy the stigma by selling a stigma.

[112233]

If I'd seen threads here, started by American women and expressing anger or fear about the "higher quality" American men going for foreign women, then I'd understand your position.

 

Of course it won't be phrased that way. Guys who suck as providers don't start threads that say "why can't women overlook my lack of provisioning ability, all I get are fat chicks and skanks". They start threads complaining about women loving guys with money or griping about paying for dates or bitching about young women dating successful men.

 

 

Similarly, look for threads about "why won't he marry me", "where are the good guys", "we broke up and now he's married!" and so on.

[zengirl]

Of course it won't be phrased that way. Guys who suck as providers don't start threads that say "why can't women overlook my lack of provisioning ability, all I get are fat chicks and skanks". They start threads complaining about women loving guys with money or griping about paying for dates or bitching about young women dating successful men.

 

 

Similarly, look for threads about "why won't he marry me", "where are the good guys", "we broke up and now he's married!" and so on.

 

What do those titles have to do with foreign women? I've never seen such a thread where it was "We broke up and now he's married . . . to a mail order bride!" I'm not saying there's never been one, but it definitely doesn't seem dominant like threads like this where American men are telling ladies they're threatened by foreign women. Hell, plenty of my friends are foreign women! I'm not scared.

[Undine]

I'm an American woman who didn't have any trouble getting married. All of my American women friends are married, too. We've all got our problems but our marriages all seem pretty happy overall, and none of us are cheaters or absentee mothers, any more than some of the foreign-born women I know who live here now. Some of them are married to American men, and nobody cares. Some of my American women friends are married to foreign-born men, and again: big whoop. Some of my American friends married and live abroad, and those of us left behind are happy for them and excited to have a free guest room to crash in if we can scrape together the dough to visit.

 

The only thing I have gleaned from this ridiculous thread is: women, no matter where you are born or what language you grew up with, you should not search for happiness with a man who compares whole nations of women to slugs.