The End.

[welikeincrowds]

I've never been stressed to that extent

 

I'm not at all saying you're making the wrong decision. But there may be a moment when you do push people in your life away, because you just want to crawl in a hole from stress. It's absolutely selfish behavior, but that's what makes it so hard. You'll never feel so alone.

 

I read your post and thought "I wonder if she'll go through something similar one day, think back at this relationship for whatever reason, and say to herself 'Oh, right. I understand now.'"

[USMCHokie]

Grief is actually a good excuse to rely on your loved one.. lean on them for support.

 

I agree completely. And if a sig O pushes me away during a time of grief, then I might see it as a sign that she doesn't see me as an important part of her life...

 

But that being said, TA and C didn't seem to have reached that point in their "relationship"...

[threebyfate]

Thank you, Art (edit: and you too, TBF)...

 

While I can't fully imagine what he's been feeling--I've never been stressed to that extent; I've never had someone I was close to pass away--I have gone through trying times (including a miscarriage after a very short relationship ended). Yet, while I was going through those times, I never treated other people who I claimed to care about the way that C has been treating me. I would honestly be disappointed in myself if I ever had, or ever do.

My grandmother, who was my twin at heart passed away a number of years ago. I loved her more than anyone in my life, bar none and was devastated when she died.

 

Not once did I withdraw from the ex-husband unless I needed space. Then I would clearly express it to him and he understood.

 

Art is the prime example of a responsible man who's a keeper. Don't lower your sights or pander to bad behaviours in man-children.

[Jannah]

You forgot the second "very"...:lmao:

 

Oh yes, a very very good friend, oops I forgot there were two.

[Art_Critic]

Star isn't saying that. She's only saying that he isn't necessarily a bad guy for how he's handling things, and that we're just incompatible.

 

I don't think he is a bad guy either.. I don't think I called him any names .. but I don't thing all this "what he is going thru" provides any excuse for treating you badly.. and I don't think incompatibility really allows for room of ill treatment of a loved ones feelings either..

[Art_Critic]

But that being said, TA and C didn't seem to have reached that point in their "relationship"...

 

You are probably right..

[tigressA]

You are probably right..

 

He definitely is...it's what I was warned of before in one of my other threads, actually. That he'll excuse any bad behavior with "Well I never said you were my girlfriend..." as though this is all some preliminary probation period that I have to pass with flying colors to earn that title. I've had his fidelity from the beginning, but not any real prioritization. To him THAT comes after the vetting period. And I really don't feel like sticking around through that.

[Art_Critic]

Art is the prime example of a responsible man who's a keeper. Don't lower your sights or pander to bad behaviours in man-children.

 

Thanks TBF...

 

My wife's Mom passed away about 3 weeks after we were married..

Her Mom never got to see the little guy and yes my wife did ask for some space while grieving and honestly I think she still does grieve for her somewhat today but she never treated me any differently than she did before and she leaned on me to help her get thru it...

[Star Gazer]

Well, it hasn't been several days. To be technical, it's been all of Saturday, and, as of now, all of today. So not even 2 days.

 

All this, and it hasn't even been 48 hours. *sigh*

 

Star isn't saying that. She's only saying that he isn't necessarily a bad guy for how he's handling things, and that we're just incompatible.

 

Exactly. I guess I have a visceral reaction to calling him selfish given the circumstances.

 

Good for some people that they can lose someone so close to them and behave "normally." Everyone handles death and grief differently. Some reach out, some close off. Some want to talk, others want silence.

 

When my grammy died, other than the day of her funeral, when attention and support was thankfully forced upon me (friends and loved ones showed up, knowing I needed it, but not because I asked), I shut everyone out. I didn't want to talk about it, I didn't want to think about it, I didn't want to be around anyone.

 

Was I selfish in doing that? Hell no. I was hurting and mourning something and someone more important to me than anything or anyone else. One person, my roommate, made me feel badly for it. She was immediately removed from my life.

 

Was that the right thing to do? For me, absolutely. Was I a "bad" person for handling it differently than someone else? Nope. To claim otherwise, honestly...that's heartless, to me.

[Art_Critic]

That he'll excuse any bad behavior with "Well I never said you were my girlfriend..."

 

I've known guys that do that...

 

Hey Tigress.. you will be fine and there is another guy.. even a better fit for you around the corner..

[threebyfate]

Thanks TBF...

 

My wife's Mom passed away about 3 weeks after we were married..

Her Mom never got to see the little guy and yes my wife did ask for some space while grieving and honestly I think she still does grieve for her somewhat today but she never treated me any differently than she did before and she leaned on me to help her get thru it...

You're welcome.

 

On a more positive note as a learning experience, if someone acts out at a loved one during times of stress, this would be a quick indicator of keeper or not.

[welikeincrowds]

Not once did I withdraw from the ex-husband unless I needed space.

 

Well then you're just a saint, aren't you.

 

I fully expect to not be able to look at a phone without breaking down when my mother dies. Not to mention "clearly express," like any thing in the universe will be clear to me. "unless I needed space" is a pretty good out. I'm telling you right now that I'm going to be "unavailable" in a same way that a man is "unavailable" after being shot in the stomach.

 

I have to wonder about your assertion that there is only One Way To Grieve. Is that to say that there is only One Sort Of Relationship, and only One Sort Of Person, and therefore only One Sort Of Loss? How could you even begin to say something like this?

 

I am hesitant to believe you harbor good will when you're throwing out insults against a man in grief, who is also under threat of deportation, which is hopefully a threat you've never had to experience. And this man is not married. He's not in a relationship. I can't imagine how the words "very very good friend" could leave his mouth; come on man, give me a break. That said, the facts remain. His behavior thus far is not mysterious, nor surprising. It's also not great for TA. But it is to have been expected.

[Art_Critic]

I couldn't find it anywhere in the thread.. how long ago did his uncle die ?

[Star Gazer]

If "acting out" at a SO during a time of stress is indicative of being a keeper or not, every single one of us would NOT be keepers. For anyone to say they've never acted out at an SO during a time of stress would be insincere. No one is perfect.

[Star Gazer]

Well then you're just a saint, aren't you.

 

I fully expect to not be able to look at a phone without breaking down when my mother dies. Not to mention "clearly express," like any thing in the universe will be clear to me. "unless I needed space" is a pretty good out. I'm telling you right now that I'm going to be "unavailable" in a same way that a man is "unavailable" after being shot in the stomach.

 

I have to wonder about your assertion that there is only One Way To Grieve. Is that to say that there is only One Sort Of Relationship, and only One Sort Of Person, and therefore only One Sort Of Loss? How could you even begin to say something like this?

 

I am hesitant to believe you harbor good will when you're throwing out insults against a man in grief, who is also under threat of deportation, which is hopefully a threat you've never had to experience. And this man is not married. He's not in a relationship. I can't imagine how the words "very very good friend" could leave his mouth; come on man, give me a break. That said, the facts remain. His behavior thus far is not mysterious, nor surprising. It's also not great for TA. But it is to have been expected.

 

Brilliant post.

[Star Gazer]

I couldn't find it anywhere in the thread.. how long ago did his uncle die ?

 

October 27th. It was sudden, a heart attack. The last thing they expected to happen when they were on vacation.

[threebyfate]

Well then you're just a saint, aren't you.

 

I fully expect to not be able to look at a phone without breaking down when my mother dies. Not to mention "clearly express," like any thing in the universe will be clear to me. "unless I needed space" is a pretty good out. I'm telling you right now that I'm going to be "unavailable" in a same way that a man is "unavailable" after being shot in the stomach.

 

I have to wonder about your assertion that there is only One Way To Grieve. Is that to say that there is only One Sort Of Relationship, and only One Sort Of Person, and therefore only One Sort Of Loss? How could you even begin to say something like this?

 

I am hesitant to believe you harbor good will when you're throwing out insults against a man in grief, who is also under threat of deportation, which is hopefully a threat you've never had to experience. And this man is not married. He's not in a relationship. I can't imagine how the words "very very good friend" could leave his mouth; come on man, give me a break. That said, the facts remain. His behavior thus far is not mysterious, nor surprising. It's also not great for TA. But it is to have been expected.

In case you're wondering, there are two people in a relationship. IF one decides to act out on their partners during times of stress, this is unacceptable behaviour. When people don't, it doesn't make them a saint. It means they care enough about their partners and have the self-control, not to abuse their partners.

 

My husband has incredible amounts of stress in his job. Not once has he taken it out on our son, myself or any of his friends and family. If this makes him a saint, I'm more than happy to kiss his feet.

[Art_Critic]

October 27th. It was sudden, a heart attack. The last thing they expected to happen when they were on vacation.

 

Thanks SG..

 

What I don't understand is how the idea of being placed in grief is an excuse for treating someone you are having sex with and in a committed relationship with bad enough they are breaking up ?

 

Grief is not an excuse.. sorry..

While grief can be a reason for some temporary acting out or some anger etc or even some counseling that doesn't mean you shut out your SO without consequences.

[Art_Critic]

I'm more than happy to kiss his feet.

 

Rub.. not kiss

[threebyfate]

Rub.. not kiss

TMI but rub, kiss, it's all been done before to pretty much every body part and might I say how attractive I find those body parts? :laugh:

[sugarmomma]

Giving a person the silent treatment is a form of control and should be unacceptable. If this is the same guy that wanted to control the sex and the label of the relationship, I thought she should have gotten rid of him in the beginning.

 

Someone who is not willing to /compromise on the terms and conditions of the relationship and would rather dictate them is not worth considering long term.

 

TA there are plenty more fish in the sea. I would not waste another milisecond on this guy. He should be turning to you in a time of grief instead of turning away from you.

 

Sorry you had to experience this but just look back and look for the same signals in the next r to save yourself some pain and confusion.

 

Relationships should be simple and satisfying and not full of power plays and controlling behavior.

 

Best wishes

[tigressA]

I wonder if this just isn't his way of pushing all the drama I pushed on him back on me, in his own way. Certainly, that's not mature at all. It doesn't matter. He's engaging in behavior that I find unacceptable, so I am ending things. Scratch that, I HAVE ended things. He just doesn't know it yet.

 

I would not be surprised, if he contacts me, if he would accuse me of "abandoning" him once I tell him it's over.

[Star Gazer]

Thanks SG..

 

What I don't understand is how the idea of being placed in grief is an excuse for treating someone you are having sex with and in a committed relationship with bad enough they are breaking up ?

 

Grief is not an excuse.. sorry..

While grief can be a reason for some temporary acting out or some anger etc or even some counseling that doesn't mean you shut out your SO without consequences.

 

It hasn't even been 2 days.

 

And yes...I've shut out EVERYONE when I suffered this kind of loss. If someone broke up with me because they hadn't heard from me for 36 hours during that period of time...honestly? Eff them. As I said, everyone handles grief differently. He's entitled to "his way." If it doesn't work for her, so be it. He's not a jerk for grieving in his own way, a way that doesn't comport with the way you or TBF would handle your own grief. <---THAT, is all I'm saying.

 

*shrug*

 

I'm not saying he's perfect/she's wrong. They BOTH have issues. I'm not saying they're in/compatible. I'm not saying this is a good/bad relationship. I have yet to conclude one way or another about any of that, as there's honestly just been too much drama for me to keep track of who's turn it is to wrong the other. (A knows I say that with love...she knows it's been drama from the start, she's said it herself!)

 

ALL I'm saying is that THIS single instance of behavior (right or wrong, doesn't matter) in and of itself is not breakup worthy (and shouldn't even be included in her analysis, either). You and TBF feel otherwise. That's where we disagree.

[welikeincrowds]

act out

 

I think this is where our definitions may differ. I wouldn't be surprised if behaviors you define as acting out would be behaviors I defined as acceptable under serious grief. That is because grief is different for everyone, in each situation.

 

You might say then it is up to the griever to make more clear the depth and color of his pain -- *~communication!~* Oh, how empty these buzz-words are -- but I might remind you of a common catch-phrase: that there are two people in a relationship. Only one of them, meanwhile, is experiencing relative normalcy, and rationality to their thought. Don't you think it is THAT person that should take it upon themselves to act upon their reason and become more reasonable -- more accepting? "Unacceptable" is a telling phrase.

 

And we're not talking about physical abuse. We're talking about withdrawal, which is a very common reaction to pain. Most animals withdraw when in pain. You realize that pain is physiological? That is causes chemical changes within the body and brain?

 

And this is all ignoring the facts of this particular relationship, between TA and C. I really do appreciate that you've landed a "keeper", a definition which apparently includes grieving the way you'd prefer one grieves, but I find that your position is unnecessarily narrow, and so it would be unfair to offer that viewpoint as advice in general, which you keep doing.

[Art_Critic]

I think this is where our definitions may differ. I wouldn't be surprised if behaviors you define as acting out would be behaviors I defined as acceptable under serious grief. That is because grief is different for everyone, in each situation.

 

You might say then it is up to the griever to make more clear the depth and color of his pain -- *~communication!~* Oh, how empty these buzz-words are -- but I might remind you of a common catch-phrase: that there are two people in a relationship. Only one of them, meanwhile, is experiencing relative normalcy, and rationality to their thought. Don't you think it is THAT person that should take it upon themselves to act upon their reason and become more reasonable -- more accepting? "Unacceptable" is a telling phrase.

 

And we're not talking about physical abuse. We're talking about withdrawal, which is a very common reaction to pain. Most animals withdraw when in pain. You realize that pain is physiological? That is causes chemical changes within the body and brain?

 

And this is all ignoring the facts of this particular relationship, between TA and C. I really do appreciate that you've landed a "keeper", a definition which apparently includes grieving the way you'd prefer one grieves, but I find that your position is unnecessarily narrow, and so it would be unfair to offer that viewpoint as advice in general, which you keep doing.

 

So I'm guessing then that your take is that the relationship should not end ?