FryFish Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 I have no rules about paying... It also isnt an indicator of my level of interest... I have called dates out on making the "fake reach" or fake offer. I have also let them pay after making what I KNOW was a fake offer. Its a good laugh for me later, and them if they are cool. I generally expect to pay if I am the initiator... But expect to be stuck holding the bag if you ask me out and I get the impression that its just because you didnt have the money to pay for yourself. If a man let's you pay for anything during your first few dates, he is not interested in a relationship with you.This isnt true... A more true statement would be if a person lies to you during your first few dates you probably shouldnt be interested in a relationship with them. That is why I call women out when they do the fake offer. It sets a precedent for more direct and honest communication. Other than that though, who is paying should be assumed to be the asking parties responsibility for first dates and it should be something that is clearly decided before its time to pay the bill for any follow up get togethers...
Kamille Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 Rules about paying are quite contextual IME. It can depend on the culture, the network, the personal preferences of each individual. Where I'm from, "who pays for what" is a very poor indicator of interests levels. I would never dream of not offering to pay, even when I'm not the one who sets up the date. That's because I truly believe that people should pay for dates because they feel like it, not because they feel obligated to pay or because it's part of some game. To be honest though, I'm always flattered and impressed by guys who insist on paying. That's why I would never dream of not uttering a heartfelt thank you when a date insists on picking up my tab. Never take generosity for granted. That's my rule.
Kamille Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 L Usually during a first date which I initiated, if a girl offered to pay I just went ahead and pay everything myself without responding to whatever she was saying because I knew she didnt mean it anyway and I simply changed the subject after I paid. How can you tell the difference between a genuine offer to pay and a fake one?
skydiveaddict Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 How can you tell the difference between a genuine offer to pay and a fake one? Any gentleman will insist on paying for his date. That's how you know
Kamille Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 Of course people are different and some if not many men are overly dominant or control freaks who feel uncomfortable and insecure if the relationship is not the 'knight and damsel' type of relationship. I think you paint both women and men's attitudes to dating in too broad a stroke. Up until finding this website, I had never even questioned who should pay. My dates and I always seem to find an easy compromise, be it going dutch or whoever did the asking paying, with the other reciprocating through what you call gestures. Then again, I'm French Canadian, so that could explain the difference. I found English-Canadians to be a bit more 'rule-oriented' when it comes to dating in general. I have my armchair anthropologist theories about that, which I will spare you. All that to say, it isn't some kind of grand psycho-biological-evolutionary scheme. Those rules and their significance are context-specific. Current bf is another example of the fact this isn't something inscribed in our DNA but can be the result of a rational thought process. He usually insists on paying because that's what makes more sense to him. He feels that since he currently makes more money than I do and is usually the one who suggests expensive dates, he should be the one to pay. There is no subconscious grand-gender-conspiracy inferiority complex here. His preference is purely rational. I find ways to reciprocate, usually by cooking meals at home or coming up with interesting and free dates such as art exhibits, festivals, pic-nicks, Frisbee, etc. Again, my point being, since capitalism and dating are social phenomenons, who pays for a date is, also, social and contextual.
denise_xo Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 Rules about paying are quite contextual IME. It can depend on the culture, the network, the personal preferences of each individual. Where I'm from, "who pays for what" is a very poor indicator of interests levels. I would never dream of not offering to pay, even when I'm not the one who sets up the date. That's because I truly believe that people should pay for dates because they feel like it, not because they feel obligated to pay or because it's part of some game. Never take generosity for granted. That's my rule. Agree with the above. As an outsider, a lot of the rules of the game of American dating culture feel quite foreign to me. Personally, I feel extremely uncomfortable when expenses are not shared - doesn't have to be every bill split in half, but say one person pays for the food and the other picks up the cinema tickets, or whatever. Where I live, it would never be expected that the person who initiates, pays. It also wouldn't be expected that the person who initiates has the game plan for the date, it's more an issue of mutual negotiation and agreement. A practical implication is that as a starting point, two people dating need to do things that both can afford.
dispatch3d Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 hahaha from the subject i just ASSUMED this would be a debate about whether guys should pay or not pay. Instead it's a debate about the best way to let a guy pay. Hahaha hilarious. Blah I'll probably never pay for a first date. Would make me feel like a chump being used for his wallet.
EasyHeart Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 As I said, I like my dates to chip in even if a little bit on dates purely for gestural reasons. For me it is a subtle way of saying that the date is not about me trying to impress her but its about us trying to impress each other. Of course people are different and some if not many men are overly dominant or control freaks who feel uncomfortable and insecure if the relationship is not the 'noble knight and helpless damsel' type of relationship. How's that working out for you? The ladies must be lining up to go out with you! Not every thing has to be about the gender war.
tincanman99 Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 If I am on a date with you its because I like you. I dont mind paying at all. Its not because I paying to get laid, I am paying because I like you. Its very basic. I dont buy into this stuff about power, alpha/beta and all that crap. If a woman offers thats fine but I wont accept it. If she doesnt offer thats fine too. I dont expect her to offer nor particularly want too. About the only thing annoys me if she becomes overly pushy about paying. Instead of being gracious and just saying thank you and they insist on paying than its dead. Because in my mind it says she views this as about power and control which its not. I have dated women that make more than me and it doesnt bother me in the least. Good for you. But if you are paying to prove that you dont need me and can pay your own way, blah, blah...thats nice but I lose all interest because that tells me she wants to control the relationship instead of being a partner. No thanks.
carhill Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 Recent example: I paid for dinner and the lady I was dating had some movie passes so treated me to a movie after dinner. I thought that was nice of her. TBH, I don't pay attention to what women do with their purses. When the bill arrives I just reach for it and pay it. I might quickly calculate the tip and ask 'can you cover the tip?' if we've been dating awhile. If the lady asks me out and picks the restaurant to share her taste in cuisine/wine with myself, then I would expect similar from her, and it generally has happened that way. The bill gets paid and conversation and building mutual intimacy goes on. With proper chemistry, flirting and joking about the bill has not been unheard of, either
Lakeside_runner Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 I don't expect girls to pay on a couple of first dates. It's ok. I even prefer them not to do that. If I went out with a girl a she offered to split the bill, say on date #1, #2 or #3 I'd feel like the date didn't go that well... Don't judge me... It's just how I feel. At some point though it's nice to hear - "Hey, I feel like you've done so much for me lately... let me take this one.".
ConflictedGuy27 Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 I usually address this before hand, because personally "the reach" annoys me. a woman that insists she pay her own way, in my mind, is attempting to shift the tone of the engagement from 'romantic intent' to 'friendzone' bs. when I say up front, "I'd like to buy you dinner" or, "why don't I take care of dinner for us" beforehand, and she agrees, the reach implies to me that they perhaps didn't have a nice time. feminism & gender equality be damned, as far as I'm concerned. I like women that prefer a gentlemen (like myself) open doors for them & pay their way (initially ).
Star Gazer Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 I don't expect girls to pay on a couple of first dates. It's ok. I even prefer them not to do that. If I went out with a girl a she offered to split the bill, say on date #1, #2 or #3 I'd feel like the date didn't go that well... Don't judge me... It's just how I feel. At some point though it's nice to hear - "Hey, I feel like you've done so much for me lately... let me take this one.". I can see how if she insisted on paying as being a sign that it didn't go well... But just offering?
reservoirdog1 Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 The "reach" doesn't annoy me, because I already know that my response on the first couple of dates would be to insist on paying the bill myself anyway. I guess it's nice if she does the "reach", but I don't attach any significance if she doesn't. Whether she does or not is of no importance in my view. Besides which, on a first date I make a point of plunking down the plastic quickly and in a very determined fashion, without looking at her for approval. I just do it -- boom, it's done. And we're back to the REAL reason why we're there, which isn't to have potentially awkward discussions about money. Did this on my first date with my now-GF a few months ago. Later on that evening, as we were leaving the next place we went to (where I'd also paid), she asked if she could buy us coffee somewhere. It was a gesture, and a small amount relative to what I'd paid that evening, but that wasn't the point. It was cool and classy of her and I liked that she did it. Since then we've developed an informal "rule": when we're in her area of town, she pays. When we're in my area of town, I pay. If it's somewhere in the middle, whatever -- we go with the flow, and there's never been awkwardness so far. This Friday we're going to a concert; the tickets are kind of pricey, the extent of which she doesn't know, but the point is that she already asked me if she could pay for hers and I told her no thanks, it's my treat. (Besides, my income is quite a bit higher than hers.) Feels good that she asked, I don't mind paying, awkwardness has been avoided, and we're both really looking forward to it.
welikeincrowds Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 "The reach" is so stupid. It's like: I know what you're doing, get the **** out of here with that. "The reach." Good lord. Dating is retarded enough as it is. There's no need for any reaching to occur. You wanna reach? Help me reach for more conversation topics, I've been reaching all night.
carhill Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 I don't know exactly why, but when I read 'the reach' I keep thinking of Seinfeld Oh, right: GEORGE: Alright, still her father didn't have to throw me out like that, he could have just asked me to leave. The guy had me in a headlock! Susan's not going tonight you know. JERRY: What do you mean not going? why not? GEORGE: I don't know, she said she had to pick up a friend of hers at the airport. It cost me a hundred dollars this ticket. JERRY: Why doesn't she pay for hers? GEORGE: That's a very good question. You know she and I go out for dinner, she doesn't even reach for the check. Thats all Im asking for is a reach. Is that so much to ask for? JERRY: It's nice to get a reach.
CanadianGirl83 Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 The finite rule is : whoever suggested the date is the one who is responsible for paying. However, the classy thing to do for the girl is to offer to pay for the dessert/coffee/drinks at the next location.
BruceLeroy Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Funny. Never had a prob going dutch or trading rounds at the bar. Its yer bday? We dating steady? I'm buying you dinner or something. But yer bday isnt everyday and Im not yer dad.
donnamaybe Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 "The reach" is so stupid. It's like: I know what you're doing, get the **** out of here with that. "The reach." Good lord. Dating is retarded enough as it is. There's no need for any reaching to occur. You wanna reach? Help me reach for more conversation topics, I've been reaching all night.Now THIS is priceless, AND accurate!
AverageJoe Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 The last dinner date I was on the waiter came over and set the bill down between us on the table in one of those check presenting binders. She never said a word, so I didnt either. I just let it set there as we talked and I watched her sweat for a while as her eyes kept darting over at it. That was a long time ago. Now, I no longer pay for dinner dates. In fact I avoid dinner dates all costs. There is absolutey no reason to spend my hard earned money on anything that isnt getting a return. Besides dinners are so damn cliche anyway. Instead I have thought up some clever and creative ways for dates that cost very little money or no money at all. Its a win win. Now I will probably be accused of not being a gentleman by at least one poster on here because that seems to be the theory. If a man doesnt pay, he isnt a gentleman. Really? So what is he? So fella's, if you dont have that wallet handy you are not a gentleman according to certain logic. But hey, thats ok with me I dont care to be labled a gentleman. Many women that think men are gentlemen is about the time they will start walking all over you, and I dont put up with that. Do I pay for dates? I avoid it as much as possible. Other than the stigma of history there is no reason for men to automatically assume they have to pay for anything. Its 2010, lets get with the program.
donnamaybe Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 If a man doesnt pay, he isnt a gentleman. Really? So what is he? And by the same token, if a woman doesn't pay, what does that make her?
Kamille Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Other than the stigma of history there is no reason for men to automatically assume they have to pay for anything. never realized how hard men had it in the past! Made me think of the final sentence of this Luis CK clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY "And I'm a man, how many advantages can one person have? I'm a white man!"
AverageJoe Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 And by the same token, if a woman doesn't pay, what does that make her? Do you want the pc answer, or the non pc answer? Ha thats good stuff Kamille, I have never seen that guy before.
Mad Max Posted October 6, 2010 Posted October 6, 2010 20 years from now men will be eating off women's hands and they will be paying for everything. Let's not go that far. My mom was telling me how things have changed a lot since the 80s(when she dated), but things aren't going to change that much in 20 years.
Mad Max Posted October 6, 2010 Posted October 6, 2010 Of course I was exaggerating but you get the idea. More women are getting degrees and in turn more of them will be making more money. Within a couple decades, women will dominate the white collar jobs while men will be confined to blue collar jobs. I'm a blue collar worker myself, so I definitely agree with that. But blue collar workers get paid more than you think.
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