If it weren't for sexual attraction men and women wouldn't even talk to each other

[meerkat stew]

Women do more woman-bashing than men do.

 

True or false? You didn't bother denying or affirming that in your attack on the statement itself. So... true... or false?

 

Mere statements of fact are not hyperbole.

[Enchanted Girl]

It's OK that you are ignorant of how the criminal justice system works on a local level, but despite that ignorance, you show no hesitation to offer insults and groundless opinions about something you obviously know nothing about, men are used to that from women, par for the course.

 

I don't need to go to law school to know that a lawyer who never wins cases is a bad lawyer. I just need a brain.

 

Besides, I didn't want to say this, but my Dad is a judge and my uncle is a lawyer. Law runs in my family and I promise you, that when my Dad was a lawyer he wasn't losing all his cases and my uncle doesn't lose all his cases either.

 

You don't make money or get more clients off of losing all your cases. I'm surprised you have a job at all. You can call me stupid all you want because it makes you feel better, but I'm actually using logic to defend my "insults."

 

It's OK that you don't understand how laws are made in this country, here's a primer for you composed of a single, completely hypothetical, but very realistic, example:

 

A. Hundreds of thousands of pedophiles (males) are stalking your children on the internet (this has been a public service announcement paid for by the "War on Pedophiles Assoc." which, lo and behold, receives federal grants).

 

B. Three congressmen announce the "Internet Safety Act of 2012." "We must protect the children from this growing menace!" Provisions include a)a joint task force on internet sex crimes, which in actuality is just a budget increase for certain executive agencies and commensurate salary/power increase for those in power in those agencies, b) stiffer criminal penalties, shifted burden of proof, reduced evidentiary standards, and a relaxed entrapment standard for those accused (i.e. the presence of the kiddy porn picture on your computer creates a prime facie government case, which you must disprove, as opposed to being proven guilty, doesn't matter that the feds actually sent the picture to your computer).

 

C. An amendment gets tacked on to the bill in the middle of the night ( on page 1356 of 1499) providing for a federal sales tax on all e-commerce "We must tax the porn purveyors!... (and everyone else)"

 

D. Bill becomes law, in the first year the government "creates" 10,000 pedophiles by putting up a government funded porn site and seeding it with some pictures of underaged girls in cheerleader outfits, sending out these pics as free bonuses to customers.

 

E. 99% of these "pedophiles" who are actually just clueless, harmless porn fans... are ... men. 9,945 men and 55 women.

 

F. Everyone who buys anything off the internet pays more due to the tax. Since the internet is mostly male still, men pay the tax disproportionately.

 

G. Enchanted Girl sits back in lalalogic land, "Good! porn should be illegal anyway! I don't care if some innocent men suffer complete denial of their civil rights because I feel like my children are safer."

 

and that is the crux of the gender war.

 

If it ain't about children, abortion rights, free healthcare for hypochondriac females, workplace equity, or some large corporate goal that can be concealed as "green," women, as a voting bloc, just don't give a ****. And more egregious, if it -does- involve one of the above, women, as a voting bloc, have no scale of social justice and can be manipulated into believing that if one child benefits, any number of rights may be stripped away from others with impunity.

 

and that is the crux of the gender war.

 

H. Six months later, Enchanted Girl's uncle Schmedly is charged with pedophilia after thinking he was downloading "Big Busty Bosoms 47" and unbeknownst to him, was sent "We Ain't Legal 35" by the government. Upon being convicted, Schmedly has to go around the neighborhood and tell everyone he is a pedophile. People start talking, Enchanted Girl suddenly wakes up, "that's not right what they did to Uncle Schmedly!" No **** sherlock.

Yes, the government hates you and tries to trick you into going to jail for their own enjoyment. All their money is being spent on plots to send you to jail.

 

You've obviously worked for the government and cracked it's secret system. This doesn't sound like an old schizophrenic friend that I had at all who believed that my other friend that I introduced her to that did drugs was planted there by the government to get her sent to jail because they had cameras everywhere watching her and wanted her to slip up and make friends with just the wrong kind of person.

 

Nope. Not. At. All.

 

You sound totally rational and not like a conspiracy theorist at all.

 

It's OK that you don't understand the zero sum nature of corporate America. Here's a hypothetical.

 

Accounting firm has one partnership slot with the prestige and extra cash that entails.

 

Angela and Bill are candidates. Both have been at the firm ten years. Both are equally bright.

 

Angela works flex time, 30 hours a week, after taking a two year family leave.

 

Bill did not take family leave, works 80 hours a week.

 

The experience disparity between Bill and Angela shows in the respective quality and efficiency of their work. Bill is approximately 25% ahead of Angela in quality of work product.

 

The firm has 80% male partners currently.

 

Who will get the partnership and why?

Who will be pissed off and why?

Whoever doesn't get the job will be pissed off. Replace the woman with the man who didn't work as much and he'd still be pissed off. Because people don't like not getting a job they are after. I've never heard someone say before,"I didn't get this promotion at my work and it makes sense because I didn't deserve it." People always whine about not getting the promotion, whether they put in the effort or not.

 

Also, it's rather sexist to assume that women don't deserve equal pay because all of them are at home, not working and taking care of kids. =/ Or that they all will be eventually.

 

The real difference between those two people is that the woman has a family and the man does not. A man who actually had a family he cared about wouldn't be working 80 hours a week either or shouldn't be because he doesn't want to neglect his kids and wife. Men and women are both capable of not having families. Men and women will both probably work less once they get them.

 

The problem is that a lot of people assume that women are going to be less hard workers (which you proved by presenting this scenario) and not men because women traditionally are supposed to have kids and stay home with them, but there are workaholic women and workaholic men. And people try to encourage the idea of women not being seen as a uterus and being seen for the effort they put in.

 

I'm sure some women somewhere out there tried to abuse this system and probably failed.

 

But you're trying to argue that the idea of equal pay and opportunities for women is abusive and steals rights for men. In and of itself, it does not. In and of itself, it's just trying to make things fair. Getting rid of it would be a far greater grievance than keeping it.

 

I also hate how upset people get over these things . . . . .

 

Let me explain it this way . . . .

 

I am a WHITE woman and my Dad and brother like to complain to me about something similar, but it's about race instead of gender. They give me the exact same scenario. That there's 90% white workers or whatever, but the other 10% has to be minorities in a lot of jobs so incompetent minorities supposedly get certain jobs sometimes over white people who qualify more for the position.

 

I always, honestly, start laughing at them. If such a large percentage of people (80% or 90% or whatever) fit your gender and race for the job, then why are you so upset about the small remaining percent that doesn't? Seriously, if 80% of higher up people at your workplace are white men and you're a white man, then it's going to be easier for you to get a job, then someone who only fits in the 20% range. Why do you need 100% of the jobs being given to only YOUR KINDS of people? Why does the small percentage of jobs that aren't upset you all so much?

 

I honestly don't get this and find it rather offensive. I don't want 100% of jobs given to white women and I'm not upset when I find out statistically that this isn't happening.

 

It also makes the assumption that the 80% of people all deserve their jobs and that no women are ever passed up EVER unfairly.

 

I think you need to go back and reread the OP, esp the part referring to "gender war."

I think you need to go back and read the OP, especially the part that says "gender war" in regards to whether or not we could speak to one another if sex wasn't involved. Edited August 4, 2010 by Enchanted Girl

[Enchanted Girl]

See in particular the bit in bold. How does this not express a strong dislike - if not hatred - of women as a group? Stop being disingenuous, it's such a waste of everyone's time. And you might be aware that it's stuff like this that will ultimately undermine any reasoned points you might be trying to make. But hey, you're on your own with that.

 

 

I agree. Someone could possibly argue that I was being critical by saying those things towards him, but he said that women as a whole were critical because I made one comment that only applied to him and not all men.

[Enchanted Girl]

I've already dealt with the fact that historically, voting restrictions in the U.S. were more about entrenched power, property ownership, i.e. aristocracy, than race or gender specifically. Most -white- men couldn't vote until around 1850, and women's suffrage began coming in a few years after that. Of course, this doesn't jive with "hundreds of years of oppressive patriarchy" does it? So sad when historical fact intrudes on fantasy, isn't it.

 

Fact is, women were pretty much given the right to vote as soon as they asked for it in many states, that the actual Constitutional amendment didn't come in until 1920 is convenient to the "received dogma" but largely irrelevant.

 

Yea, the right to vote was just handed to women.

 

That's why Susan B. Anthony and several others were arrested when they first tried to do it. How many white men exactly were arrested for trying to vote again?

Edited August 4, 2010 by Enchanted Girl

[Enchanted Girl]

In addition to not knowing the definition of "hatred," Flying, you obviously don't know what "hyperbole" means either. Spend more time with the dictionary, will do you good.

 

My female acquaintances sit around and call men "pigs" and "dogs" with abandon, does that mean they "hate" men? No. They call women "gold-diggers" and every other sort of thing, does that mean they hate women? Actually, maybe. Women do alot more woman-hating and woman-bashing than men do, but conveniently, that fact is often forgotten.

 

When someone mentions the industrial revolution in one sentence, and the assimilation of women in the workplace over the last 50 years, in what bizarro logic world (yours obviously) does that mean they are making the claim that the industrial revolution happened 50 years ago?

 

I own everything I type, why wouldn't I? and what I type is reflective of not only my opinion, but that of many of my male (and female) friends.

 

We're not saying all men or all women do anything. You're the one stereotyping them.

 

We're only saying that you are bashing and stereotyping women.

 

My boyfriend, for instance, does not bash women. None of us are under the impression that all men hate women. That's exactly why several of us posted here, arguing that men and women can be friends and get along even when sex isn't involved.

 

Because we know there's an unstable few who bash the opposite gender and can't see them as anything except an enemy, but we also know there's a lot of people who don't that could easily speak to one another and be friends even if sex wasn't involved in the equation at all.

[Woggle]

Another thing is divorce and family law. All a woman has to do is snap her fingers, say she is not happy and a man can be thrown out of his family and children's lives on a whim. Bring this up to women and they either deny it or the more honest ones condone it and say men don't matter in the family.

[Tony]

No more gender war threads for a while. Enough is enough and they are so immature and without class OR basis.