If it weren't for sexual attraction men and women wouldn't even talk to each other

[Woggle]

It is obvious male/female relationships are not working these days and I think it is because of the gender wars. Both sides are bitter as hell and blame the other and neither seems willing to budge. Look around yourselves and see if you can find a lot of couples that truly do love each other. I can count them on one hand. Sexuality is natural so that is the only reason we deal with each other anymore.

[norajane]

You need some new friends. I have lots and lots of friends and family who truly love each other and are very happy.

[meerkat stew]

Among marrieds I know, would say it runs about 30% abjectly miserable and in traumatic pain, 30% bored numb nearly to catatonia, 20% mildly depressed, and 20% happy. Now that said, I'm not so sure that's any worse than the single population.

[quankanne]

wow ... I feel like such a freak ... the only attraction that "greases" dialogue between me and someone else is humor. And to a similar degree is kindness. Even with my husband. Sexual attraction is a plus, but the fact that he is a kind and decent guy who can make me laugh like no other is what sold me on him all those years ago.

 

while I agree that gender wars/battle of the sexes exists, I'd like to point out that those games take place when one or both parties are immature and don't know how to effectively communicate or even *be* around each other.

 

lose the games, be more open, and you'll find the the man-woman relationships work swimmingly.

[TouchedByViolet]

I agree with that woogle.

 

The life style now days is about immediate self-satisfaction and trading up at the first chance.

 

It is a strange world we live in.

[jamesum]

Without sexual needs, people will only look for friends.

 

This is why I think the best relationship is the one that is based on friendship rather than sexual attraction. Sexual attraction is designed for seeking partners for reproductive purpose only not for long term companionship.

[Enema]

Reminds me of that episode of the simpsons where homer accidentally gets a gay friend.

 

Marge is trying to explain to Homer that the new guy is gay and says, "He prefers the company of men".

 

Homer, "Who doesn't?!"

 

I think everyone prefers the company of the same sex, and on some level we all know it. It's just easier to relate.

[flying]

Actually I think it's the other way around. If it weren't for sexual attraction, we wouldn't have all this angst about each other. We'd probably get along much better. Heh.

[Enema]

I also think that the prolonged, communicative relationships we have with the opposite sex have morphed into being in recent history for us. (as a species)

 

It probably happened as our intelligence evolved and we sought to distinguish ourselves from our primate cousins and their simpler, sex based relationships.

 

Whether having "modern" relationships with the opposite sex is a good thing, is another thread entirely.

[Enchanted Girl]

Actually I think it's the other way around. If it weren't for sexual attraction, we wouldn't have all this angst about each other. We'd probably get along much better. Heh.

 

I completely agree with that statement. Gender wars are often caused because someone was hurt in a relationship by the opposite gender or feels that in a romantic relationship with the opposite gender, they would be treated unfairly.

 

I'm also very confused by this thread in other ways too . . . . When I talk to men in person, I do not get into "gender war debates" with them all the time. In fact, it hardly ever happens. It confuses me that some people here only talk to the other gender when they're fighting over who has it worse. Otherwise, why do they think that they don't get along with the opposite gender because of all the gender wars?

 

I have trouble making friends with men sometimes, but it's not out of bitterness and hatred, it's sometimes because we don't share similar hobbies or like to talk about the same things or that they just assume I'm not interesting to talk to. But of course, I have trouble making friends with certain women for the same reasons . . . . . .

 

I think a lot of the reason why men and women don't as easily make friends is because we separate certain hobbies into "male" or "female" categories (while I have hobbies from both categories) and women are taught to be open about their feelings, while men are taught to be reserved about them. It makes it harder for us to speak to one another and we have less in common. That's not something we're inherently born with though.

[zengirl]

I'd talk to the men I talk to even without sexual attraction. I wouldn't sleep with anyone, though. But it wouldn't change any of my male friendships for the worse.

 

It is obvious male/female relationships are not working these days and I think it is because of the gender wars. Both sides are bitter as hell and blame the other and neither seems willing to budge. Look around yourselves and see if you can find a lot of couples that truly do love each other. I can count them on one hand. Sexuality is natural so that is the only reason we deal with each other anymore.

 

I know many married and long-term, basically married couples that love each other.

 

And even the ones I've seen break down had nothing to do with notions about gender. It was usually over the usual things: Incompatible Goals and Values. Change. Selfishness. Cheating. Realizing they really didn't like each other in "bad" times. None of these are issues with a point of view exclusive to one gender. A lot of the same problems occur in gay partnerships that occur in straight marriages.

 

Look, people are hard to live with. All people. Especially if they get into a marriage before they've gotten their own crap together, which far too many people still do, or for bad reasons (I include reasons relating to children as bad reasons). People are a mess of bad logic, emotion they don't always know they have, ever-changing needs, and faulty wiring. They are complex, and they are messy, and too many people are looking for something easy or something they can control. You can't control people.

 

Honestly, gender wars have never been a part of my actual life . . . only really seen massive gender issues come up on LoveShack here and maybe in a few conservative Christian circles or with really old people, like my grandparents' age, worrying about my life. I think life provides you with a mirror for your own issues, so I'm not surprised you see gender issues everywhere, Woggle. That's one of your issues.

 

Actually I think it's the other way around. If it weren't for sexual attraction, we wouldn't have all this angst about each other. We'd probably get along much better. Heh.

 

Probably some of the issues would go away.

 

The fact of the matter is that too many people will always seek control and thus cause ripples of discord in the world. Anyone who rails against an entire gender (male or female) is grasping at straws and struggling for some kind of control over others, and they'd just find a new way to do it, if it were made irrelevant in any way.

[flying]

Whether having "modern" relationships with the opposite sex is a good thing, is another thread entirely.

 

This is the thing I've never understood about those who try to justify behaving like animals by pointing to our evolutionary past.

 

Other physiological differences aside, human brains are a significant evolutionary difference over other primates. It's why we are so adaptable - we find ways to live in any climate. It's why we're so technologically adept. None of that is about it being good or bad - we're just different from other primates because we are. So why would our social groups or interpersonal relationships be expected to mimic those of other species without some significant modifications? Makes no sense.

 

For what it's worth, also, there's a lot less sexual dimorphism among humans than among many other species, including primates - for example, consider body size:

 

http://web.missouri.edu/~flinnm/courses/mah/lectures/sd.htm

 

Back to topic..when making friends with guys, I do find that the sex thing gets in the way. It just confuses stuff and can overshadow other natural compatibilities and eagerness to connect. It's a shame, in a way.

[meerkat stew]

Honestly, gender wars have never been a part of my actual life . . .

 

Sure about that?

 

Have you ever watched television or seen a movie? Other than handsome, young leading men, how are men portrayed in entertainment these days? Crook/pervert/clown/shady businessman about sum it up? What gender is the primary audience for dramatic entertainment?

 

Ever been to a county jail? Did you know that in a country where debtor's prison is supposedly anathema in the eyes of the law, whole new wings of jails are being built all over the country to house supposed "deadbeat dads" who lost their jobs in the recession and can't continue inflated support payments?

 

Ever followed politics or lawmaking? Ever seen a billboard on the highway claiming things like "1 out of 3 children has been sexually molested on the internet?" Ever wonder where these types of bogus statistics come from and whom they are used to manipulate against whom and to what ends?

 

Ever wonder if there really are that many bad men out there doing bad things that justify laws growing the government so rapidly at all our expense to protect us from all the bad men? or are other forces at work than "bad men?" Ever wonder if a 50% + tax burden on the average income earner is really justified? Ever wonder why the economy has become so anemic over the last 25 years?

 

Ever hear of gender-baiting issues such as glass ceilings and wage disparities? Ever accept them blindly as fact? I did... until I looked into the facts behind the "gospel." Ever wonder why such gender-baiting happens to be trotted out feverishly at election time?

[Brady_to_Moss]

Agree 100%. Only reason why i deal with females..otherwise i would be soo much better off on my own

[carhill]

If it weren't for sexual attraction men and women wouldn't even talk to each other

 

Wogs, I have to say that hasn't been my experience at all; quite the reverse. They always want to talk and never want sex

[purgatori]

I'm only one person, but my attraction to/desire to spend time with women is not conditional upon my sexual (in the more conventional/strict sense of the word) attraction to them. In fact, that tends to just muddy things up. I have been on several medications that -- for a time -- knocked out my 'libido' (once again, going with the narrow/popular definition here), and yet, the emotional longing I felt for certain women, and my appreciation of their beauty, personal characteristics, and the shape of their lives remained unchanged.

 

As for the bitterness... yeah, there's a fair amount of that, but it's not something I feel towards all women qua women, but rather those heterosexual women who willingly shackle themselves to foul brutes, and look down upon me as if I were nothing -- which may be true, but I am nothing in comparison to them, not the chuckleheads they deign to share a bed with.

[alphamale]

i've talked with lots of ugly girls

[Enchanted Girl]

I know this comment wasn't directed at me, but I thought that I'd respond to it anyway. It's one of the worst arguments I've ever read honestly.

 

Sure about that?

 

Have you ever watched television or seen a movie? Other than handsome, young leading men, how are men portrayed in entertainment these days? Crook/pervert/clown/shady businessman about sum it up? What gender is the primary audience for dramatic entertainment?

 

What? What is your point in saying this? That was a large variety of very different men you just talked about here. Funny guys and shady business men are quite different from one another and a guy being funny isn't a negative attribute for a man to have (neither is being handsome), so you can't even say all these things you're listing are bad, evil attributes.

 

I just don't feel like you are getting anywhere by saying this or even making a point.

 

It's kind of like me saying: You know what kind of women are in entertainment? Sluts, housewives, and book worms. None of them have anything to do with one another, so honestly, who cares? I'm not saying anything by listing random types of people.

 

Ever been to a county jail? Did you know that in a country where debtor's prison is supposedly anathema in the eyes of the law, whole new wings of jails are being built all over the country to house supposed "deadbeat dads" who lost their jobs in the recession and can't continue inflated support payments?

 

This is the only argument you gave that made any sense at all.

 

Although you obviously exaggerated how big of problem this is. If I walk down the street, I'm not going to pass by man after man being arrested and thrown into prison for not making child support payments, but you talk about it as if I am.

 

I will say there are victims on both sides of this issue though. If you think there's not women out there who have been abandoned by deadbeat men and struggle to take care of their kids while the father is living out in the world irresponsibly and unaffected by the law, then you'd be wrong.

 

Ever followed politics or lawmaking? Ever seen a billboard on the highway claiming things like "1 out of 3 children has been sexually molested on the internet?" Ever wonder where these types of bogus statistics come from and whom they are used to manipulate against whom and to what ends?

 

I've never seen a bill board that said that. Can you show me a picture of one that says what you quoted it as saying?

 

Also, what does that have to do with gender wars? Unless you are implying that only men molest children and that talking about people molesting children is a personal attack by women against men.

 

Ever wonder if there really are that many bad men out there doing bad things that justify laws growing the government so rapidly at all our expense to protect us from all the bad men? or are other forces at work than "bad men?" Ever wonder if a 50% + tax burden on the average income earner is really justified? Ever wonder why the economy has become so anemic over the last 25 years?

 

Ever hear of gender-baiting issues such as glass ceilings and wage disparities? Ever accept them blindly as fact? I did... until I looked into the facts behind the "gospel." Ever wonder why such gender-baiting happens to be trotted out feverishly at election time?

 

So, we're having problems with our economy because women are in gender wars with men and the government hates men. Huh?! If it was that simple, especially considering that most people in the government ARE men, don't you think they would have fixed it by now?

 

Also, all those problems you listed affect women, too.

 

And I'm pretty sure that taxes aren't decided based on how badly America is viewing men. "Bad men! Bad! Taxes are your punishment!"

[Woggle]

You need some new friends. I have lots and lots of friends and family who truly love each other and are very happy.

 

I know people from all walks of life but it is the same story over and over again relationship wise. Just look at this board.

[Enchanted Girl]

I know people from all walks of life but it is the same story over and over again relationship wise. Just look at this board.

 

That's because it's a forum that people post on when they are having problems.

 

I don't make threads on here really and that's because I'm not having problems in my relationship.

[Woggle]

That's because it's a forum that people post on when they are having problems.

 

I don't make threads on here really and that's because I'm not having problems in my relationship.

 

This forum is pretty much a microcosim of life.

[Pyro]

That's because it's a forum that people post on when they are having problems.

 

I find it hilarious when someone thinks this forum is how most people are.

[Pyro]

Actually I think it's the other way around. If it weren't for sexual attraction, we wouldn't have all this angst about each other. We'd probably get along much better. Heh.

 

You have a good point.

 

Without the sexual attraction we would never date each other and issues such as trust and infidelity wouldn't exist and neither would the bitter crybabies.....wow what a concept.

[meerkat stew]

It's one of the worst arguments I've ever read honestly.

 

You didn't seem to comprehend much of the post, so not bothered by your assessment. Will stand by what I typed rather than responding to you point by point, as I find most of your reply indecipherable.

[Enchanted Girl]

You didn't seem to comprehend much of the post, so not bothered by your assessment. Will stand by what I typed rather than responding to you point by point, as I find most of your reply indecipherable.

 

Here, let me make it simple . . .

 

In one sentence (or a paragraph if you'd like), what was the point you were trying to make by your post? Because your post was actually the indecipherable one. It had nothing to do with what we were talking about.