bentnotbroken Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 You're trying to be smart, but it's not working here, because it seems to be clear that they are legally separated, and if it's so, then obviously she KNOWS about it. Separation means the M is only a formality without the actual R between spouses being present. Of course he could be lying to her about some things but she is not betrayed in a normal meaning of this word, as in case of a properly M couple, who share life together and are expected to be faithful. OP said he is a lied to her. It is possible that maybe he lied to his wife also and she was betrayed by him lying just like any other BS who is betrayed by lying.
bentnotbroken Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 They're separated. It doesn't matter what she's feeling or thinking about it. If she expects her husband to be faithful to her, then I would suggest not having a separation and not living apart. Separated isn't divorced. Lying isn't fidelity.
Ellin Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 OP said he is a lied to her. It is possible that maybe he lied to his wife also and she was betrayed by him lying just like any other BS who is betrayed by lying. I agree with you that he might be lying to her. But to say that this makes her a BS is stretching it a bit, since in a normal way used here a BS is one that is currently "fully" married and where the obligation of fidelity stands. Being lied to is a different thing. He may lie about various matters but since she cannot expect him to be faithful while they don't have an exclusive R, lying about his fidelity (as in a normal definition of marital betrayal) is not an issue.
Angel1111 Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Separated isn't divorced. Lying isn't fidelity. They're physcially not together and they're legally separated - I don't see his actions as cheating. They have obviously discussed living apart, they have obviously discussed that the marriage has failed. It's not a huge leap to conclude that he or she will start seeing someone else. Where's the big surprise in that?
Ellin Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Separated isn't divorced. Lying isn't fidelity. Separated isn't the same as married neither. It's substantially closer to D than M. Lying is not being truthful. Infidelity is being sexually or/and emotionally involved with someone, having promised to be exclusive with someone else.
bentnotbroken Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 They're physcially not together and they're legally separated - I don't see his actions as cheating. They have obviously discussed living apart, they have obviously discussed that the marriage has failed. It's not a huge leap to conclude that he or she will start seeing someone else. Where's the big surprise in that? We will agree to disagree. Separated isn't divorced. I believe that. The world doesn't surprise me, nor the levels people will stoop to get what they want.
Angel1111 Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 We will agree to disagree. Separated isn't divorced. I believe that. The world doesn't surprise me, nor the levels people will stoop to get what they want. Yep, we can agree to disagree and that's fine. But I'm disturbed by your comment about 'the levels people will stoop to', so let me put it another way. If my husband and I were not living together, then it wouldn't shock me if he started seeing someone else. I may not like it if I had hopes of fixing the marriage but I wouldn't feel like I was a BS. On the flip side of that, knowing what I know today, I would not date someone who was separated. Not because I think it's cheating, but because I know the dangers of getting involved with someone who's fresh out of a long-term relationship. I think you're giving too much weight to the 'still legally married' thing for the wrong reasons. Yes, separated people are still technically married but fidelity is no longer expected in the way it is in an intact marriage. Separated people are free to date and most people don't consider that cheating. I don't think we should judge others and call them cheaters when they're dating while separated or dating a separated person. It's just not the same thing.
Owl Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 I think you're giving too much weight to the 'still legally married' thing for the wrong reasons. Yes, separated people are still technically married but fidelity is no longer expected in the way it is in an intact marriage. Separated people are free to date and most people don't consider that cheating. I don't think we should judge others and call them cheaters when they're dating while separated or dating a separated person. It's just not the same thing. That depends entirely upon the expectations set by both spouses when the seperation is enacted. I've seen some "temporary seperations" where this is absolutely NOT the case...others where it was an agreed upon situation where both parties could/would see others. That's the REAL bottom line question here. To me, it sounds as if seeing other people was NOT part of the agreement/expectations set between Mombot's MM and his wife. That would explain why he minimizes/hides his relationship with Mombot, and it would explain his wife's email response as well. If it's not what they both agreed upon...then it IS cheating.
skywriter Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Seperation is not a divorce in that you aren't free to remarry. However, you are free to live as a single person, as in free to see other people. At least, that is the way my legal seperation papers were written up.
Angel1111 Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 If it's not what they both agreed upon...then it IS cheating. I totally agree with that. Although I do think people are kidding themselves to think that they can be estranged and separated long-term and not think that one of them is going to start looking for a new relationship.
bentnotbroken Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Yep, we can agree to disagree and that's fine. But I'm disturbed by your comment about 'the levels people will stoop to', so let me put it another way. If my husband and I were not living together, then it wouldn't shock me if he started seeing someone else. I may not like it if I had hopes of fixing the marriage but I wouldn't feel like I was a BS. On the flip side of that, knowing what I know today, I would not date someone who was separated. Not because I think it's cheating, but because I know the dangers of getting involved with someone who's fresh out of a long-term relationship. I think you're giving too much weight to the 'still legally married' thing for the wrong reasons. Yes, separated people are still technically married but fidelity is no longer expected in the way it is in an intact marriage. Separated people are free to date and most people don't consider that cheating. I don't think we should judge others and call them cheaters when they're dating while separated or dating a separated person. It's just not the same thing. I put no weight on legally married. My beliefs aren't based on the law. If it were then my children wouldn't be allowed to marry outside of their race or live in certain places. Though antiquated, in my state, those laws are still on the books.
Owl Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 I totally agree with that. Although I do think people are kidding themselves to think that they can be estranged and separated long-term and not think that one of them is going to start looking for a new relationship. They may have set some unrealistic expectations perhaps...I won't argue that. But when the agreement or expectations change (on one side or the other)...then BOTH parties need to re-negotiate or discuss that change...not just make it unilaterally (and hide it from the other spouse). Like I said...that's what appears to have happened here. It doesn't appear that his wife has this expectation to see others...and MM is hiding his relationship with Mombot as a result. So it appears to still be a case of 'cheating'.
Angel1111 Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 But when the agreement or expectations change (on one side or the other)...then BOTH parties need to re-negotiate or discuss that change...not just make it unilaterally (and hide it from the other spouse). Well, yea, that's a given. They should at least let the other party know that the deal is off. I'm not sure if that's what happened here or not - hard to say. He didn't seem overly concerned that Mombot sent the email but that could've just been a cover.
Angel1111 Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 I put no weight on legally married. My beliefs aren't based on the law. If it were then my children wouldn't be allowed to marry outside of their race or live in certain places. Though antiquated, in my state, those laws are still on the books. I'm completely confused by what you're saying now, based on what you said before.
bentnotbroken Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 I'm completely confused by what you're saying now and what you said before. I am saying my belief system isn't based on the legalities of anything. I believe marriage(God's marriage anyway) goes beyond legal ties. I used the analogy of of the laws on the books in my state as not being "right" just because it is legal. Legally separated means nothing to me. Especially separated for years. Either you are married or you aren't.
Author Mombot Posted August 10, 2010 Author Posted August 10, 2010 Made a goffee date with a handsome 44 year old nice looking man- maybe that will keep me from answering the phone, I will be strong.i
bentnotbroken Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Made a goffee date with a handsome 44 year old nice looking man- maybe that will keep me from answering the phone, I will be strong.i Can't you change your number or block his?
Angel1111 Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Made a goffee date with a handsome 44 year old nice looking man- maybe that will keep me from answering the phone, I will be strong.i Have a good time! And don't answer that phone, no matter what.
Fieldsofgold Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 About the MM being legally separated - it was filed in 1999. They could easily have reconciled in the interim wihout the "legal" part being dismissed. Resuming the relationship automatically kills any legal separation in my state - no other action being necessary. Are they STILL "legally" separated? Mombat doesn't actually know - and therein lies a big part of the problem. MB has heard the W, over the phone, fussing at him about spending too much money. That doesn't sound too much like a couple who have truly lived separate lives for 11 years. He seems to be sneaking MB around his grown children and W, like she is a secret. Not what I would expect for a MM who has truly remained separated for 11 years. MM lied to MB about being divorced. If he had truly been legally separated for 11 years, why wouldn't that have been good enough? Really, I think the big issue is whether he has lied to MB or not, and I think most of us believe it is a safe assumption that he has. But no one really knows what his marital status is. We only know that paperwork was filed at one time, long ago. Clearly he has not been honest and forthcoming with MB. He seems to call and/or show up when it fits in around his family time. That, in my mind, is reason enough for ending the relationship.
Author Mombot Posted August 10, 2010 Author Posted August 10, 2010 We have the hope you are having fun voicemail.
Silly_Girl Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 We have the hope you are having fun voicemail. Which will likely turn in to the 'Hope you're having lots of fun with HIM' in heavy sarcasm mode. He basically resents you ignoring him and will start the tactics to get a reaction. Be ready to NOT be drawn in Mombot
Author Mombot Posted August 10, 2010 Author Posted August 10, 2010 I can do this. Sometimes there is no answer and NC is the ultimate no answer.
2sunny Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Which will likely turn in to the 'Hope you're having lots of fun with HIM' in heavy sarcasm mode. He basically resents you ignoring him and will start the tactics to get a reaction. Be ready to NOT be drawn in Mombot I can do this. Sometimes there is no answer and NC is the ultimate no answer. what a dumb vm. no effort. no thought. what a complete dork. he doesn't really get it yet. he will. then expect his efforts to step it up FULL STEAM... of course - only when he has time and doesn't have "others" to overhear his convo. expect begging, crying and "planning." when he realizes YOU are not responding he will start to freak out because he is no longer in control. NC is healthy for YOU!!! keep the coffe date. go have fun! do not respond to his very empty promises of "future" stuff... pie in the sky type of bs from him. i'd actually consider sending a very firm and blunt text - ALL CAPS = NEVER CONTACT ME AGAIN YOU CHEATING, LYING MO FO!!!! ahahahaha that ought to set him straight and make him understand you think he's the jerk he's portrayed himself to be. any words from him are empty - his action shows he has other plans than the words he speaks... no use in bothering with him after that clearly demanding text. send it!
2sunny Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 he's trying to appease you since you specifically told him you don't want to be placed on the back burner when he's with "his family" - now he knows he HAS to have you on the back burner - but he's willing to make a stupid phone call and that is supposed to make everything all well and good? geez, this guy seems so selfish - and just like always - expects you to be happy about being placed low on the totem pole. he had his warning when you told him - and HE did just what he wanted to = ignore you while family is there. why should that be good enough for ANY gal? much less you? he disrespects and disregards you - that is not good enough for even a dog...
Author Mombot Posted August 11, 2010 Author Posted August 11, 2010 He doesn't read his email very often, but I think I will just stay as quiet as a clam on the beach. I'm afraid tomorrow may be a flop, I'm not really in the headspace to go and talk. But I'll look good, even for an old chick, I know I still have my looks and will rely on them faithfully tomorrow for making up the enhusiasm I don't have. I can do laundry and hairdos and meet Mr Cutie that I don't think I have anything in common with and then go to work. That will pass one more day constructively. Last night I dreamt separated man was at my place lighting candles.
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