herenow Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said except the portion about accepting the gifts. If that is the nature of the relationship between the OP and the WS then that's the nature of it. The WS is making the decision on what to do with the money...as with all aspects of the A in regards to the M. I couldn't find anything excessive that my exH spent on his OW, but if he had it would have been his choice to take it just as it was his choice to cheat on me. I would have been on his backside so fast he wouldn't have known what hit him. The way the courts may see it is you accepting gifts knowing that the money used to buy it is community property. Unless, he lied to you about being married, you are responsible for the actions you take and the law (in most cases) will see it that way. Don't think that a BW will walk away from what is rightly hers because you think she should. It is her choice and there is nothing you can do about it. Link to post Share on other sites
MizFit Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 The only way for a MM to give an OW a gift (or pick up a bill) without it being 50% his BW's money is to get a divorce and split the community property. Then, he can do whatever he wants. No...he can do whatever he wants to with it as time is going on and the relationship is in play. If it ends and the BS goes after him for it then that's between the two of them...it was their money and he spent it. It wouldn't have mattered if he'd been gambling excessively or paying for hookers and week long parties for his mates. If he chooses to give it to an OW for whatever reason that is his choice and as soon as BS finds out she should do whatever she can to recover it from him. Link to post Share on other sites
MizFit Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 The way the courts may see it is you accepting gifts knowing that the money used to buy it is community property. Unless, he lied to you about being married, you are responsible for the actions you take and the law (in most cases) will see it that way. Don't think that a BW will walk away from what is rightly hers because you think she should. It is her choice and there is nothing you can do about it. I don't know the legalities and quite frankly not concerned. I don't accept much at all from MM so it's not an issue. At the end of the day the logic is simple...their money and he spends it so go to town and get it back from him. If my father gave me gifts from money that wasn't rightfully his I'd think just the same...that's what logic says to me, but hey...99% of the laws on the books defy logic so there you go. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 No...he can do whatever he wants to with it as time is going on and the relationship is in play. If it ends and the BS goes after him for it then that's between the two of them...it was their money and he spent it. It wouldn't have mattered if he'd been gambling excessively or paying for hookers and week long parties for his mates. If he chooses to give it to an OW for whatever reason that is his choice and as soon as BS finds out she should do whatever she can to recover it from him. Sorry again, there are court cases that prove that a BW can sue an OW for money spent by the MM during an affair. Link to post Share on other sites
MizFit Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Sorry again, there are court cases that prove that a BW can sue an OW for money spent by the MM during an affair. Don't be sorry...I'm speaking from logic and not legalities as I stated above. I have no knowledge of the legalities and it really isn't something I have an issue with. I would wonder though if the cases you're speaking of are the affairs we hear about where there is a huge amount of money spent in keeping the OW in a certain lifestyle, or a standard A where it's dinners and a few weekends away. I'm not being flippant at all...I'm actually quite curious about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Most scenarios I've read on here lead me to think 'Oh yes!' or 'Oh nooooooo'. I think this is something that the situation very much depends on. Lots of couples have separate bank accounts and contribute to joint bills/endeavours. They have separate monies. Anything that leans towards 'paying for sex'... yuk. But if we are happy (for the purposes of this) to take the stance that an affair is a 'real' relationship then I think sometimes it may happen naturally and not be weird or creepy. I personally accepted nothing at all, and used to take in to account his train fares in to 'who was most out of pocket this time' ) and wouldn't do something or go somewhere if I couldn't afford fifty percent. However, he was careful with money, and I am proud, so it worked for us. And we earned a similar amount although his disposable income was more. But at the same time there are some people who feel strongly that if one has the capacity to spend more, then they should. There are couples I know where it has suited the family for one of them to work part-time and not have a career (and therefore earn a FRACTION of what the earning spouse earns) and they contribute to that ratio. It may be the same here. If the MM has a disposable income ten times that of the OW, he may well want to contribute if they go food shopping, or offer to pay for the cinema or the meal out or the holiday. And I don't think there's a problem with that if it doesn't affect the power balance and no-one feels they're owed or are owed. What I'm not comfortable with is the MM paying for rent, utilities, cars, school fees etc. I think that compromises the OW's independence and brings a dynamic the relationship (due to its nature) can do without. They're NOT a family and MM shouldn't have the opportunity to ever feels he owns anything in the OW's life and the OW needs to feel free to move on and not be dependent on the MM at any time, in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
Fallen Angel Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 The only way for a MM to give an OW a gift (or pick up a bill) without it being 50% his BW's money is to get a divorce and split the community property. Then, he can do whatever he wants. If they were going to continue in their marriage she would not be suing me, as he would not allow it. (and stay married) Just as he would never allow her to physically or verbally assault me, neither would he allow her to use the courts to assault me. So if she were suing me, they would be divorced or divorcing. And were she to win, then he would still pay the bill. *shrug* That is his nature. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 If they were going to continue in their marriage she would not be suing me, as he would not allow it. (and stay married) Just as he would never allow her to physically or verbally assault me, neither would he allow her to use the courts to assault me. So if she were suing me, they would be divorced or divorcing. And were she to win, then he would still pay the bill. *shrug* That is his nature. I'm glad you have such confidence that he would protect you over the wishes of his wife. However, neither you or him have control over what she does. Just like she doesn't have any control over what you and the MM does. BTW, I'm don't know anything about your situation, but this type of protective behavior for you (over his wife) makes me wonder why he stays married. Link to post Share on other sites
MizFit Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Most scenarios I've read on here lead me to think 'Oh yes!' or 'Oh nooooooo'. I think this is something that the situation very much depends on. Lots of couples have separate bank accounts and contribute to joint bills/endeavours. They have separate monies. Anything that leans towards 'paying for sex'... yuk. But if we are happy (for the purposes of this) to take the stance that an affair is a 'real' relationship then I think sometimes it may happen naturally and not be weird or creepy. I personally accepted nothing at all, and used to take in to account his train fares in to 'who was most out of pocket this time' ) and wouldn't do something or go somewhere if I couldn't afford fifty percent. However, he was careful with money, and I am proud, so it worked for us. And we earned a similar amount although his disposable income was more. But at the same time there are some people who feel strongly that if one has the capacity to spend more, then they should. There are couples I know where it has suited the family for one of them to work part-time and not have a career (and therefore earn a FRACTION of what the earning spouse earns) and they contribute to that ratio. It may be the same here. If the MM has a disposable income ten times that of the OW, he may well want to contribute if they go food shopping, or offer to pay for the cinema or the meal out or the holiday. And I don't think there's a problem with that if it doesn't affect the power balance and no-one feels they're owed or are owed. What I'm not comfortable with is the MM paying for rent, utilities, cars, school fees etc. I think that compromises the OW's independence and brings a dynamic the relationship (due to its nature) can do without. They're NOT a family and MM shouldn't have the opportunity to ever feels he owns anything in the OW's life and the OW needs to feel free to move on and not be dependent on the MM at any time, in my opinion. I agree with that, but I also agree with it in principle-it could be a single man or a MM. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I'm glad you have such confidence that he would protect you over the wishes of his wife. No one really knows that unless the W knows about the A. How many people have we seen on LS that are crying over being thrown under the bus once the BS finds out or once the AP pushes too hard? Too many to count. Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 What would you consider financial support to an OW/Mistress, and when is it appropriate? Why would she need financial support? She should be able to take care of herself. I would think that a MM footing his OW bills is pretty telling. The woman is not good partner material because she can't budget and take care of herself. Just because she is a female doesn't mean that she should expect someone else to pay her way. Plus, MM want a lateral move at the very least. They sure aren't wanting to have a worse life. Now paying for dates and all that jazz, of course it's not right, but that's the way it is. And if you get a BS with a good attorney and is ready to wield the karma wand, well the money the BS can prove was spent on the OW gets taken out of his settlement. Plus, if he uses business funds, well he just might lose his job. Then the OW can support him. GEL Link to post Share on other sites
Fallen Angel Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I'm glad you have such confidence that he would protect you over the wishes of his wife. However, neither you or him have control over what she does. Just like she doesn't have any control over what you and the MM does. BTW, I'm don't know anything about your situation, but this type of protective behavior for you (over his wife) makes me wonder why he stays married. He stays married because he made a commitment many years before he met me, a commitment to his family, and one that he feels he has not fulfilled yet. He is protective of me because I am someone he loves. I will say that he would not allow me to physically or verbally assault his wife either. That is just not behaviour he would accept from either of us. No, he does not have "control" over what either of us do in being able to actually stop one of us if we had our minds set on doing something, what he does have control over is remaining in a relationship with one/both of us dependant upon our behaviour. During our D-day he was very protective of me. he refused to give out personal details about me, and would not allow his wife to make any type of contact with me. He protected me then, and I expect the same protection if she were to suddenly decide to sue me. In fact we have discussed this when this topic was on the board in the past and he stated that her insistance on a lawsuit against me would seal the fate of the marriage. *shrug* So again, I can confidently say that he would pick up the tab for that. Link to post Share on other sites
Mimolicious Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Oh boy... My exH paid for his OW's rent. In her own words, paid for all her nick-nacks, dates, coke habit and probably her car blah, blah, blah... real FACKEN CUTE! I got up every morning to work, even when I felt sick to my stomach. Missed my son's childhood because I had to work, to pay for half my mortgage, utilities, my own car, cc's, cell phone, etc. Trust me, I had my day in court. It didn't go too well for exH. Now he lives at his mother's, no luxury car and no business. I warned him! I think it is despicable that another women could really rejoice with the money of a man that his W pays for half. Unless you are in an A with Big Poppa, I am sure his W is a working one. Sorry to be judgemental but this happens very often. It's sad... Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 If they were going to continue in their marriage she would not be suing me, as he would not allow it. (and stay married) Just as he would never allow her to physically or verbally assault me, neither would he allow her to use the courts to assault me. So if she were suing me, they would be divorced or divorcing. And were she to win, then he would still pay the bill. *shrug* That is his nature. Actually, that is not his "nature". That is what it appears to be from your point of view. If being kind and protective of the people he cares about was in his "nature" he wouldn't be having an affair with you in the first place. JMO Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I agree with that, but I also agree with it in principle-it could be a single man or a MM. You make a good point. I think it's just more noticable when it's MM. But for me personally, single/married, my stance has been/would be the same. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 If being kind and protective of the people he cares about was in his "nature" he wouldn't be having an affair with you in the first place. JMO I have to agree with this, HN. You can't compartmentalize behavior like that. It's either there - or not. A WS hurting a BS that way, I would say - not. Link to post Share on other sites
Mimolicious Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Why would she need financial support? She should be able to take care of herself. I would think that a MM footing his OW bills is pretty telling. The woman is not good partner material because she can't budget and take care of herself. Just because she is a female doesn't mean that she should expect someone else to pay her way. Plus, MM want a lateral move at the very least. They sure aren't wanting to have a worse life. Now paying for dates and all that jazz, of course it's not right, but that's the way it is. And if you get a BS with a good attorney and is ready to wield the karma wand, well the money the BS can prove was spent on the OW gets taken out of his settlement. Plus, if he uses business funds, well he just might lose his job. Then the OW can support him. GEL GEL you made me LMAO! Sounds like you just wrote my story. LOL! I have a few friends that are in A with MM who have tons of cash. They get the supped up rides, the Loubies, the bling and vacations... I am sure the BS is also taken care of but has to deal with a whole lot more nonsense than his p/t lover. I guess it depends how deep MM's pockets are. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Why would she need financial support? She should be able to take care of herself. I would think that a MM footing his OW bills is pretty telling. The woman is not good partner material because she can't budget and take care of herself. Just because she is a female doesn't mean that she should expect someone else to pay her way. Plus, MM want a lateral move at the very least. They sure aren't wanting to have a worse life. Now paying for dates and all that jazz, of course it's not right, but that's the way it is. And if you get a BS with a good attorney and is ready to wield the karma wand, well the money the BS can prove was spent on the OW gets taken out of his settlement. Plus, if he uses business funds, well he just might lose his job. Then the OW can support him. GEL All good and very valid points GEL. Link to post Share on other sites
Fallen Angel Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Actually, that is not his "nature". That is what it appears to be from your point of view. If being kind and protective of the people he cares about was in his "nature" he wouldn't be having an affair with you in the first place. JMO I have to agree with this, HN. You can't compartmentalize behavior like that. It's either there - or not. A WS hurting a BS that way, I would say - not. If that is the case, then it is in his nature to be kind and protective of me! And I don't see anything causing that to change. Link to post Share on other sites
jthorne Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 (edited) Nevermind. Edited June 17, 2010 by jthorne Link to post Share on other sites
Fallen Angel Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Nevermind. wow.. as i clicked to respond... it changed.. lol. well.. hello jthorne, hope you are having a lovely day. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Nevermind. But you had a good point, JT. Link to post Share on other sites
califnan Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 To the best of my knowledge all monies earned in a marriage is community property .. (at least in Calif) .. Maybe this is one of the reasons why the sweetheart's wife should be aware of the girlfriends, because at the disillusion of the marriage - the wife Is entitled to half of the amount he gave to others in this situation.. Link to post Share on other sites
jthorne Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 wow.. as i clicked to respond... it changed.. lol. well.. hello jthorne, hope you are having a lovely day. Hi! Hope you're feeling better. I'm late to the party. The comment was a general comment, not specifically addressed to you. It was already addressed in a post I missed. Sometimes, I should put down the tequila. Link to post Share on other sites
Hazyhead Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Sometimes, I should put down the tequila. Down the throat? Link to post Share on other sites
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