What next

[willowthewisp]

I agree with both Goingstrong and Galleon. Both at the same time. Anyone who gets involved with a married person (not yet divorced) or someone shortly after divorce or a long term relationship should have the common sense to realise that they are most likely a rebound and as such if they are silly enough to kid themseleves otherwise then they really can't complain when they get hurt. Harsh but true I'm afraid.

 

At the same time though, What next, although you were hurting, you must have been aware that this relationship would probably end up hurting the women you were involved with? Even if you weren't, there were plenty of people on here trying to give you the perspective that you might end up hurting her and yourself in the process.

 

Do you owe her an apology? Personally I would say yes, she could be one of the many people who post about their heart break like members on here, then again, it may not have caused her any pain at all. Either way an apology and a message to see if she is doing OK would not hurt and may well be appreciated.

[Binster]

Anyone who gets involved with a married person (not yet divorced) or someone shortly after divorce or a long term relationship should have the common sense to realise that they are most likely a rebound and as such if they are silly enough to kid themseleves otherwise then they really can't complain when they get hurt. Harsh but true I'm afraid.

 

So she got what she deserved.

 

Dont really think so.

[Steadfast]

 

At the same time though, What next, although you were hurting, you must have been aware that this relationship would probably end up hurting the women you were involved with?

 

 

Well said willow, and my point as well. Gallon, etc...no one is trying to gang up, or beat up W-N. Please, read people's posts before jumping to someone's defense. The great outpouring he's received on this thread demonstrates the care and interest people have. And yes; a true friend isn't always going to tell you what you want to hear, sometimes, it's what you need to hear.

 

 

Even if you weren't, there were plenty of people on here trying to give you the perspective that you might end up hurting her and yourself in the process.

 

 

Yes, exactly. I endured this with my 'rebound'...dealing with my divorce and the break up at the same time. It wasn't fun. It slowed my healing and made a difficult situation even more difficult. On the other hand, I'll never forget what that woman did for me. I have told her. She knows. I made peace...at least as far as I was concerned. She may feel differently.

[What_Next]

Let me start by saying this, I have a thick skin and can take critcism without issue. In fact I have taken lots of if from LS members. It doesn't phase me one single bit.

 

Goingstrong I do appreciate your posts, at least they are well thought out and contain coherent sentences. Now, I don't know whether or not you've read my FULL story. If you haven't. Go back, read THEN comment. If you have, then so be it.

 

I'll say this, she was FULLY AWARE of EVERY SINGLE aspect of what was going on. Right from the first time we met. I held nothing back. Most women that I initially met turned and ran. I think they were the smart ones. She chose to take the risks. Does that justify or in some way mitigate the hurt she likely felt? No. Not really. Now, she said on many occasions that when we ended (yes she used the term WHEN) she'd pick herself up, dust herself off and move on.

 

I had no intentions of hurting her, of hurting Donewrong, or hurting anyone. I was lost, I was an emotional wreck and unable to make clear decisions. In a way I wish SHE had made that decision for me and told me to go pound sand.

 

FanFan/Goingstrong, I have NO ISSUE whatsoever with criticism. Go ahead, I am a big boy. Pay me the curtosey of at least reading my entire story first though (oh and try and use complete sentences once in a while FanFan). Some on here like Steadfast/2.50 a gallon etc have followed along with me and they know the full story. That enables them to use perspective.

[FanFan]

Let me start by saying this, I have a thick skin and can take critcism without issue. In fact I have taken lots of if from LS members. It doesn't phase me one single bit.

 

Goingstrong I do appreciate your posts, at least they are well thought out and contain coherent sentences. Now, I don't know whether or not you've read my FULL story. If you haven't. Go back, read THEN comment. If you have, then so be it.

 

I'll say this, she was FULLY AWARE of EVERY SINGLE aspect of what was going on. Right from the first time we met. I held nothing back. Most women that I initially met turned and ran. I think they were the smart ones. She chose to take the risks. Does that justify or in some way mitigate the hurt she likely felt? No. Not really. Now, she said on many occasions that when we ended (yes she used the term WHEN) she'd pick herself up, dust herself off and move on.

 

I had no intentions of hurting her, of hurting Donewrong, or hurting anyone. I was lost, I was an emotional wreck and unable to make clear decisions. In a way I wish SHE had made that decision for me and told me to go pound sand.

 

FanFan/Goingstrong, I have NO ISSUE whatsoever with criticism. Go ahead, I am a big boy. Pay me the curtosey of at least reading my entire story first though (oh and try and use complete sentences once in a while FanFan). Some on here like Steadfast/2.50 a gallon etc have followed along with me and they know the full story. That enables them to use perspective.

 

I am fully aware of your story. I am just wondering how you feel about dumping this other woman. Believe it or not, how you dumped her, how she reacted, and how you feel about how she reacted matter to your current stage or feeling of your marriage.

[goingstrong]

Well WN.. I have read all of your posts in regards to your situation, however I have not read all the responses. Fifty pages worth is rather wordy, and a lot of posts are of the sympathy type. I have done my best to chose my words carefully and am merely trying to avoid posts based on emotion for your situation..you've plenty enough of that already. You sound like a well thought, honorable person, and I am just trying to point out some pitfalls.

[You Go Girl]

I agree with you, WN.

You didn't keep the volitile and vascillating situation a mystery for the OW, you told her. She was probably a sounding board as much as a comfort to you. She probably heard way too much about your relationship with DW. That should have been a red flag to her, as well as that you were still in a relationship with DW.

This OW knowlingly entered the relationship with WN. If she can't make adult decisions knowing the possible outcomes and consequences, then that is her problem. She's an adult, not a child. If she was a child, then this argument that she was hurt unfairly would have weight. It doesn't.

 

Geesh.

[tojaz]

Wow WN, all I can say to start is that your thread seems to be a breeding ground for trouble makers and those that like to stir the pot. We all know who were talking about here.

 

Im seeing an awful lot of Black and White thinking here on a lot of peoples parts, yet I have never once known affairs of the heart to be anything but multiple shades of gray.

 

You described what this woman was about in your own words "a revenge affair". I don't disagree, as a matter of fact it shows like a neon sign in your posts. From the repeated stern proclamation that you would be dating to the many updates of how well things where going with your other lady on a forum you already knew DW was reading. Might as well just paint F YOU! on the bedroom wall.

 

Thats not to say that was your intent or even that you had malice on your mind WN because I honestly dont think you did. Thats where things start to get hazy. I doubt any of that was conscious on your part, if I did then I wouldn't bother posting to you here and as a matter of fact I did duck and dodge your thread for awhile because I knew you weren't hearing what was going to be said, you didn't see it yet. Thats why i and most others push the importance of MC and IC. The mind can make anything look reasonable, justified, acceptable in order to protect the heart. As you and DW work through this and her "selfish" behavior, I would keep that in mind and as I have said from day one on this thread in many different ways YOU CANT CHANGE WHAT HAPPENED, BUT YOU CAN CHANGE WHY IT DID!

 

DW had an affair, now so have you. The moral high ground is lost to you now, your on a level field again and it needs to be treated as such. Time for punishment and blame is long past WN.

 

As for the girlfriend, companion, however you'd like to put it. While you were honest with her and she knew the situation going in, that doesn't lessen her hurt, thats just an attempt to lessen your responsibility. Not a good way to treat anybody. I dont believe anybody is owed an apology, if it is owed then it really doesn't mean that much, because an apology is a gift, an admittance, not something that is given out of duty but because you care about that person and their well being. If it had been me seeing this girl, I would say she DESERVED an apology and she would get one. Not necessarily for my actions, because yes she knew the score going in, but for the outcome and because I know that any break up hurts, regardless of if it is expected or not. A simple Im sorry it worked out this way and I know it hurts would probably be much appreciated by her, if for nothing else then to know that she wasn't just a pawn between You and DWs drama.

 

Its a lot to think about WN, believe me I know! Black and White is so much simpler, but its the details and the small nuances that make the difference. The shades of gray. Your posts show a bit that your seeing that. Seeing things through new eyes. Thats exactly what you need right now, keep it up.

 

TOJAZ

[tojaz]

On Rebound, you want to doom a relationship! Label it! Define it!

 

By sheer definition your next relationship will be a rebound, look the word up. That only dooms it to failure if you choose to label it as such. Think about it. Would you tell anyone that they were your rebound girl/guy? That ends it before it even begins.

 

Its just the next relationship folks. It may last 2 weeks or 80 years if you give it a chance, but once its labeled as just a rebound, its already done.

 

Another one of those annoying gray areas we all love.

 

TOJAZ

[LittleTiger]

I'm still following your thread W_N and I'm impressed that you've decided to give your marriage another go.

 

My marital break-up was very different from yours and for very different reasons, but the one thing I wished back then was that my exH would at least have given us a chance. Instead he walked away. He couldn't be bothered to put in the effort required to get us back on track. So I have great admiration for anyone who fights for their marriage.

 

There are a couple of things I'd like to add here. I understand that you still don't trust your wife and you believe she's continuing to be dishonest, however, for your own sake, and the sake of your relationship, I would still be completely open and honest with her, and more importantly with yourself. I would ask yourself a few questions too:

 

How do you want this new marriage to be? (Because it has to be a new marriage, not a rehash of the old one). What do you need in order for this new marriage to work? How can I do things differently this time? DW should be asking herself the same questions. If you don't analyse what went wrong, you will just end up in the same place as you were before her affair.

 

I realise that you don't want to go into counselling of any sort and, of course, it isn't for everyone, but please try to focus on your own role in what's happened here rather than your wife's. Focus on the part you played in the breakdown of your marriage. Your own reaction and behaviour is the only thing you have control over and the only thing you are able to change. What DW decides to do in all this is her choice. Just as her affair was her choice and your revenge affair was yours.

 

Your 'old' marriage was in crisis before DW's affair, otherwise you wouldn't be where you are now. What she did was wrong, of course, but you are both responsible for the marriage getting to that point in the first place. Your 'new' marriage won't even 'get off the ground' if you aren't both able to acknowledge your own roles in the death of the old marriage. What's important now is to let the past go and learn to do things differently in the future.

 

Regarding the 'girlfriend' you had for a while, I thought at the time that as long as you were honest with her and she went into it knowing the score, then the risk was hers. That said, if it was me in your shoes, I would have apologised for any hurt that I caused when I ended it. Now, I think it's water under the bridge. Maybe if you ever see her again you could apologise, but I wouldn't seek her out to do so. As YGG said, she's an adult and it was her risk. As Tojaz said, the apology should have come from the heart at the time. What's done is done.

 

Your concern now is for your marriage and your family. With or without MC/IC both you and DW have a lot of work to do if you still want to be together in the future.

 

I wish you all the best W_N and I do hope you and DW can make this work.

[willowthewisp]

On Rebound, you want to doom a relationship! Label it! Define it!

 

By sheer definition your next relationship will be a rebound, look the word up. That only dooms it to failure if you choose to label it as such. Think about it. Would you tell anyone that they were your rebound girl/guy? That ends it before it even begins.

 

Its just the next relationship folks. It may last 2 weeks or 80 years if you give it a chance, but once its labeled as just a rebound, its already done.

 

Another one of those annoying gray areas we all love.

 

TOJAZ

 

According to my IC a rebound relationship is a relationship that one or both people enter into, quickly after the end of a relationship in order to avoid feeling the pain of the break up. Both the leaver and the left can experience a rebound. Someone makes you feel good about yourself and you get to feel loved and reveal in the attention and the passion of something new rather than experience the pain of heartbreak and deal with your grief. IMO, they are very real, I experienced one and according to my IC it is highly ilkiely my X is currently still in one.

 

Of course, not every first relationship following divorce is a rebound, but that very much depends on whether the divorcee has taken the time to grieve and what steps they have taken to to come to terms with the end of their marriage, such as IC etc and what part, if any, they played in the break down of their marriage. In addition some rebounds can develop into a committed loving relationship in the long term, but more often than not, as no one can escape grieving, eventually the rebound relationship dies and burns and the person must then not only deal with their orginal grief but the loss of another relationship as well.

[What_Next]

Another influx of posts, thanks to everyone!

 

YGG, yes IMHO she did hear way too much about the break down in my marriage. Yes that should have been a red flag for her. I think though at that point in her life she wanted to ignore all the warning signs. That was indeed her choice.

 

Tojaz, my intentions were definitely not to hurt anyone. Most definitely not. My head was clouded with anger, with sadness that almost any decision I made would have been the wrong one. I also was not (am not) trying to lessen my responsibility in any way. This women should have read all the clearly painted signs and not gotten involved with me.

 

Littletiger, I completely agree that this "new marriage" cannot and will not be a rehash of our old marriage. That is gone and buried. I have already done most of the things you have mentioned, and I certainly take my part of the blame for the breakdown of the marriage. I will NEVER again act like I did, nor will I EVER allow a women to treat me in the way Donewrong did.

 

Lastly, as for an "apology", well that won't occur because there will be no further contact between me and her. I made that promise to my wife and I intend on keeping it. It's not as if we will bump into each because we live in different cities and there were no mutual friends or anything else in common that way.

[Lexygirl]

I'm just wondering how it's going there buddy?

[What_Next]

Good timing Lexy, I was going to post an update. Today was our first MC session with a new a person. She appears quite skilled. The session was definitely different than our first attempt at MC. We are scheduled to see her again in 2 weeks.

 

Things have been up and down between us. I am happy to report more up than down, but the progress is SLOW. This entire process will take a monumental effort on both our parts. I am honestly doubting that Donewrong will hold up her side of the bargain, but I will let her actions dictate that.

 

I have to admit that having seperate places is a positive (except for the cost of course) as it gives us both time to have space and think. For instance after MC I came to my place alone to process the session in my own time and my own headspace.

 

We are going back a favorite family activity this upcoming weekend, camping in our RV. I am looking forward to it.

[Lexygirl]

Good for you

[What_Next]

It's been a while and I guess it's time for an update. It's been 6 weeks or so since I've given her the second chance. It's been an uphill battle the entire way. In fact as I sit here and type this message I am all but ready to throw in the towel. Now I won't; not right now, but the thought is foremost in my mind.

 

Our child does not want us to be together, my family does not want us to be together (or are luke warm at best), her family, well who knows. Maybe they know something we don't . I'll say this, if I did't know in my heart of hearts that I still love her, I'd let this all go.

 

We have our second MC session with a new counsilor tomorrow. I am jaded to say the least with respect to MC, but I will attend.

 

Donewrong deserves credit in terms of her actions of late; she is really beginning to see what she needs to do in order to give us a chance, despite the slim chance thereof. She appears comitted, the only question will be whether or not this is a short term thing or not.

 

What a ride!!!!!!!!

[fltc]

Our child does not want us to be together, my family does not want us to be together (or are luke warm at best), her family, well who knows. Maybe they know something we don't . I'll say this, if I did't know in my heart of hearts that I still love her, I'd let this all go.

 

Remember this: "FAITH? Are you kidding me? She cheated on me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She gets NO FAITH!!!!! NO TRUST!!!"

 

Are you past that?

 

I really have to side with your child and your family, you say you still love her but you don't her and I think you know that, you loved the person you thought she was, you loved a person you thought you could trust, you love the person you hope she'll be but hasn't she given you more than enough proof that she's NOT that person?

 

I sincerely hope I'm wrong about this....

[What_Next]

FTC, in all honesty no I am not past that yet. No she is NOT the same person that I thought would never cheat, but she did.

 

No I also do not trust her. I am willing to give her a chance, but I am having a very hard time coming to terms with that.

[Surfer203]

What_Next: Keep on going man.. it is clear she wants to make things right.. gotta give it some time. The outcome could be great, but of course it will take time. You are a level headed guy and I respect your desire not to just jump back in fully. That is smart.. otherwise you are too vulnerable and setting your set up to get hurt again.

[What_Next]

Surfer203, thank you for the well wishes. I do appreciate your post. I also still ache for what you are being put through. I think you nailed it by mentioning not allowing myself to be setup to be hurt again. That is definitely something that is on my mind. In fact I have told Donewrong that NO ONE will EVER be in a position to hurt me like she did.

 

The thing is if I hold to that statement almost any relationship I enter into will eventually fail. I can definitely say I will never again blindly trust a woman. I will likely always be suspicious and second guess things. That is especially true if I stay with Donewrong.

 

We are scheduled for MC tonight, I'll see how that goes I suppose.

 

All I know is that my heart is filled with doubt, anger, sadness and I see it getting worse; especially around this time of year. The only saving grace is that with what I do this time of year is absolutely crazy busy. A busy mind doesn't have time to ponder such things...

[2.50 a gallon]

W-N

 

Hang in there, it is your life and you make the decision. I can understand you wanting to make it work. I did not have that courage, and sometimes wonder how things might have turned out had I found that courage.

 

Had she not come by and partied with the neighbor that very weekend to throw it in my face, I think I might have taken your road. But sometimes the hurt and lack of trust is just too great.

 

I am a little bit troubled that you daughter wants the two of you to split up. Has she had any counseling, maybe to find out what her problem is? As I see it that as something serious that needs to be addressed.

 

Enjoy the holidays and remember there are many on this board who wish that they were in your shoes.

[Surfer203]

I appreciate your thoughts What_Next.. this really has proven to be the most difficult thing I have had to face in my whole life. I am with you though, I will NEVER trust some on blindly again. There will always be doubt. I have learned that to never let a woman walk on me, tell me what to do, how to act, dress, look, etc. Those days are over.. and I am feeling stronger and more assertive. I too am filled with all of those emotions, Xmas should bring them out a bit further, but I won't crack. I cried briefly last night because my mother sent my wife a sappy email - I told her to STOP IT!!! It does not help.. I was crying more for my Mom than for myself.

 

What_Next: Hope MC goes well. Keep at it. I really appreciate all of your help and comments over the past month or so.. it is truly helpful and helps to know others are dealing with the same BS as me.

[debtman]

what_next, just to throw in my 2 cents. After my wife and I had our initial "conflict" 2 years ago about me lying about my debt to her and she was ready to divorce me for 8 months until she saw how hard I was working to fix things (while she wasn't), by the time she finally came to me and apologized for how mean she had been to me and told me that we could try again, we never got back to where we were before the problems. I saw how easily she could turn off her emotions for me and never allowed myself to truly fall back in love with her again. That may have been part of the problem that led to our current situation, but, she also never addressed any of the issues she has, would never consent to counseling, never re-established trust towards me, etc.

 

I'm angry with her about jumping right into a new relationship with a new guy, having him come over to our marital home, with our kids, while I'm staying with my parents, but, I think most of my pain and frustration comes from the fact that I'm the one that is displaced because of her decision. Also, that her new bf will start living in our house in Feb. so they can "try out" living together before they buy a house together and move out in May (and I get to move back into the house). It's completely a financial decision and I'll come out of it with the house, no debt and being able to afford to live, pay child support and keep the house.

 

The input and support I've gotten from this site has been fabulous. Seeing other people in pain and trying to offer some perspective has helped and given me the distance to see that things will get better.

 

I'm even going to agree with her request to put a toilet in our upstairs bathroom so that his kids will have an extra bathroom to use when they are there for the weekends while he is living there. Emotionally is bothers me, but rationally, it will be my bathroom and I want a toilet in there anyway and she has agreed to pay for the hardware if I do the work.

 

I love my kids. I haven't really loved my wife for the past two years. I have lots of anger and bitterness over how her decision to finally divorce me has upset my life, and have jealousy over her new bf living with her in my house with my kids, but I have to remind myself. I WILL be happier without her. I enjoy the time with my kids MUCH more without having her constant input and life WILL go on and I'll have the chance to find someone who doesn't have the issues that my stbx does.

 

We have one more mediation appointment on the 17th, we will be divorced by the end of the year. It will cost us each less than $1000 total, which will only benefit the kids. I HAVE to deal with her for the next 15 years at least, so it also benefits the kids if I can overcome my emotions and just get along with her civilly.

 

No matter what has happened in the past few years, at one time, I did love her, we did have amazing, life-changing experiences together and, once I get past this disturbance to my existence, things can only improve...

 

Good luck...

[Surfer203]

What sucks about these situations also is for most of us, we were living in a 2 income home. Not we are cut down to 1 income. This makes paying normal expenses and bills much harder AND it limits and changes our own lifestyles. Our own buying power and liquid money for eating out, buying stuff for ourselves or our homes is diminished. Another thing these women take away from us. My lifestyle is completley different now. Yet another selfish thing that they do when they leave us.

[What_Next]

2.50 a gallon the core of what our daughter is going through boils down to something that we will be able to deal with if we do manage to make it. She just needs to know that IF we remain together it won't be like it was. BOTH of our actions negatively affected our child and we BOTH have to atone for that and help her through it. We will do that, whether we survive as a couple or not.

 

I have more soul searching to do and more thinking to do over the coming months and years, I just need to stop thinking about the larger picture and try to focus on the smaller one. I will learn to do that, but it will take time to re-condition a brain...