xxoo Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 Well, back on topic... I guess I could simply agree with TDP's and Lizzie's claims, because it would be good news for me and my marriage. It would mean that my H, and the H's of my similar friends, are very unlikely to cheat, because we have fun sex at home on a regular basis. So, what the heck, I'll just go with that I still have a difficult time believing that marriages like mine are so rare. But, we all tend to notice and retain information that supports our own point of view, including me! I dug up this Newsweek article from 2003 that seems to have a balanced view on the topic: http://www2.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/micro_stories.pl?ACCT=617800&TICK=NEWS&STORY=/www/story/06-22-2003/0001969545&EDATE=Jun+22,+2003
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted April 9, 2010 Author Posted April 9, 2010 I know, and I feel bad for truly good men like you and James. What about me????!!!! I just stir the sh#!
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted April 9, 2010 Author Posted April 9, 2010 Well, back on topic... I guess I could simply agree with TDP's and Lizzie's claims, because it would be good news for me and my marriage. It would mean that my H, and the H's of my similar friends, are very unlikely to cheat, because we have fun sex at home on a regular basis. So, what the heck, I'll just go with that I still have a difficult time believing that marriages like mine are so rare. But, we all tend to notice and retain information that supports our own point of view, including me! I dug up this Newsweek article from 2003 that seems to have a balanced view on the topic: http://www2.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/micro_stories.pl?ACCT=617800&TICK=NEWS&STORY=/www/story/06-22-2003/0001969545&EDATE=Jun+22,+2003 and not the norm:rolleyes:...... I promise you..... You should feel very lucky..... And unless your husband is a jerk, hard to believe he will cheat (or more specifically have an Affair) Below check my other unscientific poll on a similar tact..... http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t205626/
mem11363 Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 James, This is the best definition of pity sex I have ever seen. I am going to add to your comment about loving participation in any and all activities. Over time I have posted very freely about the fact that wife and I do have painful conflict about valid and also (sadly) stupid issues. However in between the stormy froth of our discontent are relatively long stretches of delightful calm, which are characterized by a lot of genuine giving on both our parts. "Genuine giving" is different than simple participation. For instance wife at times truly gets addicted to new activities. These have always been games or sports, never drugs or alcohol or anything harmful. Her current addiction is ping pong. And the comical thing is that she gets a true dopamine induced high from her addictions just like I do from sex. She went through a 2 year phase like this with racquetball and it was truly to her what sex is to me. In fact I began asking if she wanted to go to 24 hour fitness for an hour of racquet sex and she would just laugh and nod. The parallels (between sex and racquet sports) in behavior and emotional response were very very similar: Our skill differential in raquet sports (ball, tennis and ping pong) is comparable to our skill differential sexually. And in both cases, on the court and on the mattress it is a core aptitude difference not a lack of effort. I try just as hard in bed as she does on the court/table. And just as I am plagued by a mild but persistent performance anxiety in bed which she does everything she can to help me overcome, we have the exact same situation - roles reversed - in racquet sports. For instance she knows I can consistently win playing opposite hand in all 3 sports. So now back to racquet sex - I mean to her current ping pong addiction. If I were to in ANY WAY show a reluctance to play, a lack of enjoyment of playing it would TOTALLY ruin the experience for her. She ALREADY has a mild performance anxiety about it being less fun for me as it is for her so I make the effort to consistently radiate a happy vibe (which is easy to do as she is fun to play with) when we play. And if I get a little bored before she has as many ping pongasms as she wants I NEVER EVER show it because that would TOTALLY ruin the experience for her. Pongasms are just as fragile as sneezes and orgasms. Doesn't take much to break the magic spell and disrupt the rapture. And to generalize the two of us have always had a rule that if asked - not only would we participate in whatever activity the other asked, we would do so with a giving spirit and a desire to be delightful company. And with regard to that rule we are almost at a true 100 percent compliance rate. Now - for entertainment purposes - I will relate an unusual situation that occurred a couple weeks back that gave me a giant and lengthy bout of laughter. It was about 9:30 at night and we had the following exchange: Me: Baby you worked a long day I know you are tired (code for I don't expect you to put out tonight and am 100 percent fine with that) Her: Well - I - long pause - it kind of was a long day (code for - GOOD I don't feel like putting out tonight) Me: I can tell I am missing something though - what am I missing? Her: I don't want to ask - because it doesn't seem fair Me: (lightbulb has just gone off) You want to play ping pong - instead of playing our OTHER game - totally fine - lets go play So we went to the game room and I gave her as much racquet rapture as I could and then we came downstairs took a quick shower and went to sleep. So in a very real sense - in terms of brain chemistry - she came that night - maybe a few times - and I didn't. And I loved it because over the years I think I have run up a massive tab from the nights where she kindly and generously took ME to the rapture knowing she wasn't able to get there no matter what I did for her. Back to you and your definition James. I accept that some nights wife isn't going to get to the rapture physically - I don't pressure her or complain about that. But I could not/would not tolerate sex where she came to bed with any attitude other than "I love you and want to make you happy." And frankly THAT part of the equation tells me just about everything - if she can't make the effort 1-2 nights a week to come to my bed with a smile and a sincere and loving heart - than she doesn't love me in the way I love her - and that is not a situation I would tolerate on an open end basis. Usually I don't get "pity sex" per se because my wife knows that I wouldn't want that. And my definition of pity sex simply means that she does not participate with love. It does not mean that she simply doesn't have orgasms. An analogy (since you, TDP, like them ) is that while I may not like shopping with my wife, I can easily enjoy it with her. Going along and grumbling or showing obvious feelings of "I do this only for you" would be compared to pity sex. If I go shopping and actually enjoy it even though I am not buying anything and only because I know she enjoys it, then we both will enjoy it. Does that make some sense? Oh....apology accepted. Why do I get the feeling that you really weren't looking for an apology? The bolded part is the key. It is not the quantity. If two people have that kind of sex once a week or as often as they BOTH desire it, then neither will cheat. The problem comes in when one of the partners does not feel that the sex is quality of enough in quantity. It is all about the mismatched libidos IMO. You may well be correct for the average. Since my "count" is less and I am not in an affair and I know of a guy who cheated because his wife did not have sex with him two or three times a WEEK, it is hard for me to say that it is all about quantity but more about the relationship. Since it is guys like me who over think that make your threads hum, TDP, then let me say that IMO sex is but a symptom usually and not the cause of affairs. In my case while sex is lacking, the love and companionship from her is not. And I say that with complete honesty. If we had sex twice a week because of some huge physical attraction yet we were not great friends and did not have love and respect for each other, then I think I would be in a worse position. That is not to say that sex is not important, but by itself, it is not the cause of affairs. Happy and loving sex means that two people are happy with one another and love each other. Quality sex can be had by two skilled and passionate individuals who don't have deep feelings for each other. Another analogy....I enjoy singing (and am told I do okay at it). However good my voice may sound when singing a song, the person who sings the same song with deep feeling can make a stronger impression on the hearers simply because the audience can sense that this singer has experienced the words. So it is with sex. If my wife were exceptionally skilled at sex and yet does it without love and feeling for me, then I would sense that something is missing. And if she did it with love and passion for me, yet stumbled a little as she "performed" one me, I may actually find greater enjoyment. Sex is an expression not a technique.
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted April 9, 2010 Author Posted April 9, 2010 Sometimes 5h!t needs to be stirred, particularly when you read threads with advice on how to gaslight and lie to the BS to keep an affair going successfully. The OW/OM Section is really questionable on some levels.....
Married_and_Lonely Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 Don't play beer pong with her because it's definitely harder to have a pongasm when you're drunk!
xxoo Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 and not the norm:rolleyes:...... I promise you..... You should feel very lucky..... And unless your husband is a jerk, hard to believe he will cheat (or more specifically have an Affair) Below check my other unscientific poll on a similar tact..... http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t205626/ Well, I know I'm a freak. That's not news I read some of the thread you linked. I don't think it is any surprise that people in new relationships have more sex than people in longer relationships (new relationship energy), but I am surprised to hear frequency drop to virtually nothing. Question, though. You point out that the spouses are in their 40s, and the girlfriends are in their 30s. How was the sex in your marriage--and your friends' marriages--when the wives were in their 30s? Was the frequency poor even then? Or were the relationships too new to compare?
BlueeyedJonesy Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 Don't play beer pong with her because it's definitely harder to have a pongasm when you're drunk! :lmao::lmao: oh i just choked on my cofee~!
Lizzie60 Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 Mem darling.. did I read this right? She was too tired that night to have sex.. (your game) but not tired enough to go play ping-pong?
xxoo Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 Mem darling.. did I read this right? She was too tired that night to have sex.. (your game) but not tired enough to go play ping-pong? I don't get it either.... Tired isn't the real reason she is not wanting sex, then, right? But that is sort of understood, I guess? I find your stories interesting, mem, but I can't relate to your communication style at all.
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted April 9, 2010 Author Posted April 9, 2010 Well, I know I'm a freak. That's not news I read some of the thread you linked. I don't think it is any surprise that people in new relationships have more sex than people in longer relationships (new relationship energy), but I am surprised to hear frequency drop to virtually nothing. Question, though. You point out that the spouses are in their 40s, and the girlfriends are in their 30s. How was the sex in your marriage--and your friends' marriages--when the wives were in their 30s? Was the frequency poor even then? Or were the relationships too new to compare? If you look at some of my other posts, one was referencing a show called Sextistics that shown on Valentines day. One of the stats was sex dropping in 30's due to families and young kids and having a kickstart later on.... Friends all have younger kids.... Frankly I think we are all just as randy as the next..... Thus wanting the 3X/wk that I keep spouting.....
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted April 9, 2010 Author Posted April 9, 2010 I don't get it either.... Tired isn't the real reason she is not wanting sex, then, right? But that is sort of understood, I guess? I find your stories interesting, mem, but I can't relate to your communication style at all. He get's plenty..... Some of us here probably think he should be playing more ping-pong.......
Married_and_Lonely Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 I don't get it either.... Tired isn't the real reason she is not wanting sex, then, right? But that is sort of understood, I guess? Oh, lighten up Lizzie & XXOO.. if it was a recurrent choice by her then sure that'd be annoying, but for one night, big deal.. he has a favorite game and so does she, and this night they played hers. Haven't you ever been addicted to something silly like scrabble on the IPhone or a board game or a video game? I don't have a healthy sex life obviously, but for those who do, I don't see what's wrong with choosing to do something else fun together instead of sex one night. It's still something they enjoyed together.
threebyfate Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 The impression I get from these sexless marriages appears to fit the cliche saying of "people want what they can't have". It becomes an obsessive need. It's like their sexless partners are using sex in a passive-aggressive manner. Are these women passive-aggressive or do they not have enough control in their lives and have no other means to assert themselves?
xxoo Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 Oh, lighten up Lizzie & XXOO.. if it was a recurrent choice by her then sure that'd be annoying, but for one night, big deal.. he has a favorite game and so does she, and this night they played hers. Haven't you ever been addicted to something silly like scrabble on the IPhone or a board game or a video game? I don't have a healthy sex life obviously, but for those who do, I don't see what's wrong with choosing to do something else fun together instead of sex one night. It's still something they enjoyed together. I've got no issue with wanting to play ping pong and not have sex. It sounds like she decompresses with ping pong, and that's completely understandable. What I don't get is the communication style, but I'm assuming mem and his wife get it. I'd just say, "I'm way too stressed to get into sex tonight, hun. But I could really use some ping pong to relax, if you're up for it." But I'm direct
stillafool Posted April 10, 2010 Posted April 10, 2010 It is what they call a "bait and switch." Do you think that they married expecting a sexless marriage? Do you think the wife told her husband that she would only have sex for the first few years until the children were born? Maybe the wife didn't realize how much work was involved in being a wife and a mother. Everyone wants something from her and she starts viewing everyone as a chore. If she had known this would be the reality of "marriage" perhaps she would have thought again. But still this gives her no excuse to run off and cheat. The problem is that these men went into marriage expecting that the wives to whom they promised faithfulness would respond with intimacy to make that easier. When it became obvious that the wives expected fidelity and no longer wanted sex, then suddenly these men felt as if they were trapped. My guess is the wife feels trapped as well, please don't think she doesn't have fantasies also while doing her humdrum daily routine of being everyone's everything. Fidelity goes both ways. Expecting no adultery while committing your partner to celibacy is absurd. And if there is a reason that a partner withholds sex, then it should be out in the open. If sex is a problem it is the couples duty to seek counseling, dates, holidays or whatever they have to do find a solution to the problem. I promise you the husband isn't the only one suffering sexually when there is no sex in the marriage. I don't care what the wife says she still most likely wants sex but has been turned off by her husband because she has started to view him as another chore. Why withhold sex and stay in a marriage? Why not divorce? Because the one with the low libido is getting everything he or she wants. Why stay in a marriage if you seek sex outside of the marriage? Because every other need is being fulfilled...or so it seems. Again I believe the low libido is due to the fact that they are turned off to their spouse. That is unless they have a medical problem. A marriage without a sexual relationship is unsatisfying. If it were and all other needs were being satisfied it would really seem selfish to jeopardize a marriage by having an affair. As easy as it sounds to say "get a divorce," it isn't. Breaking up your family because of no sex is not an admirable deed. Breaking up your family after withholding sex and driving your partner into an affair is. Go figure. Both are betrayals of the same vows. If a couple has exhausted all sources to resolve the issue and still no sex; is one to stay unhappy forever? I don't think the kids would even approve of that; and what about when the kids go off to college? Are you still suppose to stay in a sexless marriage? To me that is being a martyr. As for exposing the partner to diseases.....we do that every day. They are just different kinds. Every hand I shake, every door I open, and every breath I take opens me up to a multitude of diseases. And that leaves my wife vulnerable to those same diseases. Having an affair is less dangerous than our every day activities. And yet I don't think to ask her permission to touch doors and breathe. Why this is always brought up as a reason someone should not have an affair, I don't know. It only says that the person needs to realize the dangers, and it also should warn the one who no longer wants sex that withholding sex can leave that person vulnerable to STDs because the partner may seek out sex elsewhere. Or the spouse who chooses to have an affair should understand they should never go back and try to slept with the BS. I'd much rather get the flu for a week from a handshake that herpes for the rest of my life. Ruining a person's life? As one whose wife withholds sex, I can say that this certainly can ruin a life. At the point that someone chooses an affair, they have been hurt enough to feel that giving hurt seems only fair. As I read that line "ruining someone's life," all I can think to say is....give me a break. No matter how it goes....divorce or an affair, lives will be ruined. And in many cases, these acts are only committed because something pushed that person into that act. Withhold sex and then complain that your partner cheated? Ridiculous. Withholding sex IS cheating...no matter the reason. Solve why sex is withheld for the sake of your marriage. Expecting that your partner will suddenly remain celibate out of love and devotion is being oblivious to reality. I think if a person wants to stay in an unhappy marriage forever and decide cheating is better than being honest and moving on to a happier life then they should never complain about the lack of sex. Unless both partners have agreed that "extramarital affairs" are okay because they don't want to do each other then you are a cheater. A spouse who chooses to stay in a sexless marriage knows the circumstances but still chooses to stay. When the sexless spouse sneaks off to cheat they are ruining their spouses life because the BS is left in the dark and can't make a decision based on unknown facts. If they had known that their wives would become celibate after selling them on a different "bill of goods," then I have no doubt that they would have remained single. Again, I'm sure if these wives had known what married life with kids was really like they would have felt their hormones had "sold them a different bill of goods" as well and would probably have stayed single.
mem11363 Posted April 10, 2010 Posted April 10, 2010 Lizzie, She wasn't tired. She wanted to play pong because that is more pleasurable to her than sex. It just is. I am ok with that because it simply is factually true. And she wanted to play as much as possible that night - which meant until she was tired and wanted to go to sleep. I left out some context here. We had a very ugly situation with our oldest child that triggered two straight months of very frequent conflict - way way more than our usual pattern. And there was a straight correlation: Situation with daughter happened - wife called me while I was away in KL on business and she was hysterical crying - and stayed that way for days. I came home 2 weeks after this mess started - and she was tense and we had 2 months of very choppy seas. And yes during that time we had sex 1-2 times a week but she never came. Not once. Didn't even want me to try to get her there. About 2-3 weeks ago she got over the child situation - it hasn't changed she has simply accepted it. And by got over - I mean she has resumed coming and before you say she is just pretending - I accepted she couldn't during the prior 2 months and did not play either the self pity card "I must really suck in bed since you don't come" nor the whiny card "it just isn't as much fun for me when you don't come". I simply would say to her what I always say afterwards "thank you for loving me." So lets see - for 2 months she was in a 1-2 times a week even though I think she would ideally have been having no sex - pretty damn giving on her part. And then 3 weeks ago within days of coming the first time in months, out of the blue she said "new sex schedule is every other day." Which was totally her idea - no direct/indirect prompting from me. And she has stuck with that schedule - so if we miss a day she pushes for a makeup day (2 days in a row). So one night - which was an "odd" night - odd nights = sex and she wanted to play ping pong instead. Every other day is incredible. I don't think I deserve that and frankly giving up a night for ping pong is pretty easy in that context. Lizzie - If I was getting starved over a long time - once or twice a month - something like that - I would be coming north to visit you on a regular basis. Oh - and my wife DOES like ping pong more than sex - but she loves me enough to fully satisfy me sexually so it would be selfish/crazy for me to complain. Mem darling.. did I read this right? She was too tired that night to have sex.. (your game) but not tired enough to go play ping-pong?
mem11363 Posted April 10, 2010 Posted April 10, 2010 I absolutely understood she didn't want sex. She has a "not interested in sex" vibe she radiates that I pick up pretty clearly. She WAS radiating the "not interested" vibe that night. By the way - when she radiates that I don't ask why since I don't think she should have to justify her desire or lack thereof to me. But she did feel weird about asking me to put out when she didn't want to. Which is so comical given how deep the ledger is in the other direction. So I think I am going to try to get her to understand that she can occasionally substitute her version of sex for mine with no guilt whatsoever. I don't get it either.... Tired isn't the real reason she is not wanting sex, then, right? But that is sort of understood, I guess? I find your stories interesting, mem, but I can't relate to your communication style at all.
mem11363 Posted April 10, 2010 Posted April 10, 2010 James, There is one thing I truly don't understand. You talk about how you and your wife are great friends - that doesn't make sense to me. If your wife was a great friend to YOU - why doesn't she come to your bed 1-2 times a week with a giving/loving heart and rock YOUR world - regardless of her current level of lust. And as I just remarked we did just go through a period where my wife was NOT feeling lusty and we argued a little about sex during those 2 months with me pushing her to have LESS and her pushing us to have MORE. With me wanting to sacrifice for her and vice versa. This is the same desire to please that you - and I - show our wives when we happily go shopping with them - I WOULD NEVER GO SHOPPING ON MY OWN - DON'T LIKE IT - JUST DO IT TO MAKE wife happy and do it regularly and gladly. Maybe the wife didn't realize how much work was involved in being a wife and a mother. Everyone wants something from her and she starts viewing everyone as a chore. If she had known this would be the reality of "marriage" perhaps she would have thought again. But still this gives her no excuse to run off and cheat. My guess is the wife feels trapped as well, please don't think she doesn't have fantasies also while doing her humdrum daily routine of being everyone's everything. If sex is a problem it is the couples duty to seek counseling, dates, holidays or whatever they have to do find a solution to the problem. I promise you the husband isn't the only one suffering sexually when there is no sex in the marriage. I don't care what the wife says she still most likely wants sex but has been turned off by her husband because she has started to view him as another chore. Again I believe the low libido is due to the fact that they are turned off to their spouse. That is unless they have a medical problem. A marriage without a sexual relationship is unsatisfying. If it were and all other needs were being satisfied it would really seem selfish to jeopardize a marriage by having an affair. If a couple has exhausted all sources to resolve the issue and still no sex; is one to stay unhappy forever? I don't think the kids would even approve of that; and what about when the kids go off to college? Are you still suppose to stay in a sexless marriage? To me that is being a martyr. Or the spouse who chooses to have an affair should understand they should never go back and try to slept with the BS. I'd much rather get the flu for a week from a handshake that herpes for the rest of my life. I think if a person wants to stay in an unhappy marriage forever and decide cheating is better than being honest and moving on to a happier life then they should never complain about the lack of sex. Unless both partners have agreed that "extramarital affairs" are okay because they don't want to do each other then you are a cheater. A spouse who chooses to stay in a sexless marriage knows the circumstances but still chooses to stay. When the sexless spouse sneaks off to cheat they are ruining their spouses life because the BS is left in the dark and can't make a decision based on unknown facts. Again, I'm sure if these wives had known what married life with kids was really like they would have felt their hormones had "sold them a different bill of goods" as well and would probably have stayed single.
WalkInThePark Posted April 10, 2010 Posted April 10, 2010 OMG, mem, this ping pong stuff is about the most romantic thing I have ever read on LS! Isn't it great if you can still PLAY in a marriage? I personally love raquet sports but s!ck badly at ping pong but I'm good at tennis. Playing tennis is one of the things my xMM and I like to do together. Nothing makes me fall harder in love with a guy than the presence of the play factor meaning you can have some playful competition. For me it gives this "we are mates" feeling. I guess it is because I value the fact that we are peers, equals very much.
giotto Posted April 10, 2010 Posted April 10, 2010 How come I don't even get to play ping pong? Mem11363, regarding wives not "wanting" to please their men even if they love them... maybe it will come as a shock to you, but to some women sex is the least important thing in the world and it's at the bottom of the list... they get to the bottom of the list, eventually.... they tick it off and the cycle starts again... unfortunately, sometimes that list is very long...
giotto Posted April 10, 2010 Posted April 10, 2010 The OW/OM Section is really questionable on some levels..... lol... I read it from time to time and I find it hilarious... honestly! Great source of entertainment...
xxoo Posted April 10, 2010 Posted April 10, 2010 If you look at some of my other posts, one was referencing a show called Sextistics that shown on Valentines day. One of the stats was sex dropping in 30's due to families and young kids and having a kickstart later on.... Friends all have younger kids.... .. Late 30s and young kids...that's where we are. BUT--while we have a dip in frequency (and satisfaction, for me at least) after each baby, it comes back as each baby gets to the point of sleeping reliably. For our babies, it is 18-24 months before I can feel comfy REALLY getting into it (quiet sex, under covers, in the dark really doesn't do it for me )--until I'm confident that the sleeping babe will reliably STAY sleeping--and things start to get much more frequent and exciting. Our kids are a few years apart, so we got back to great sex between kids, and we are now back to great sex after our final kid. I'm curious how that kickstart as the kids gets older meshes with the no-sex 40s you're reporting. For you, was there are kickstart after the kids got older? Between kids? I searched you and sextistics, but could only find one post with no details about the findings.
xxoo Posted April 10, 2010 Posted April 10, 2010 I think that most couples, after a few years, get comfortable in their sex life.. it gets robotic.. because they don't have the energy anymore to find new tricks every night.. they just do it the same way, in the same pattern, time after time.. it ends up being boring.. but just enough to keep everyone happy... then a few years later it becomes like all the rest, a CHORE.... btdt.. I want to come back to this.... Most people will have a boost in libido with a new partner. That's a fact. But, that doesn't mean that LTR sex is doomed to be boring and robotic! What LT partners sacrifice in terms of new relationship energy (that intense lust for a new partner that lasts for a few years), they ideally gain in trust, intimacy, body knowledge, openness, etc. My H and I are in our 20th year together. We have a foundation of great chemistry for sure, and remember having sex 5x a day when dating . We are seemingly magnetically attracted to each other to this day. Now, after decades and kids, we don't need it 5x a day. Would I want that with a new partner? Maybe! But I don't want that with him. What I need--and get--from him is the chance to deeply explore my sexuality. While we went at it like bunnies and tried lots of fun stuff in the early years, there is a different level of sexual energy present now. It's patient, knowing, and thorough. It's intense. Best analogy--it's as if my body and mind were an instrument he's been studying for years, and can now play in a manner that brings me to my knees (often literally ). My reason for sharing... I'm sure there are other women who have Lizzie's experience in a LTR, and other women who have my experience. What are the differences between the couples in each group? Is it something about the man? The woman? The relationship? What is the difference??
giotto Posted April 10, 2010 Posted April 10, 2010 What are the differences between the couples in each group? Is it something about the man? The woman? The relationship? What is the difference?? It is the man, the woman and and the relationship... You are lucky in your marriage, but most men in LTR/marriages I know they just complain about the sex frequency, all the time... but then you are still relatively "young"...
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