giotto Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 Sex to me is simply at the end of the day validation from your partner that she loves you, finds you attractive, wants to be with you and a pleasurable bond between the two of you saying "that despite the differences,the stresses, the issues, the fights/disagreements we had today/yesterday/during the week, I am happy to be with you".... Oh and did I mention it is fun and yes we both orgasmed:p:D;)..... of course... but you will find that smart, intelligent, considerate men don't usually cheat, because they can use their brain... I find that it's more the alpha men - you know, those who think they are "real men" - that tend to cheat... they can't keep it in their pants, because they don't think about the consequences and don't usually have a moral stance... I've seen this many times here where I live...
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted April 9, 2010 Author Posted April 9, 2010 (edited) of course... but you will find that smart, intelligent, considerate men don't usually cheat, because they can use their brain... I find that it's more the alpha men - you know, those who think they are "real men" - that tend to cheat... they can't keep it in their pants, because they don't think about the consequences and don't usually have a moral stance... I've seen this many times here where I live... Shall I say more?????;) The pub after work and see what happens and stroll in when you are good and ready..... Of course I am stereotyping.... And you bring up the Alpha male (where's Mem11363 to chime in)..... I thought the Alpha was sucked out of us by our mid 40's.... You see I could keep narrowing my research data and throw out those who have one night stands or those that travel for work, are often away for extended periods (i.e. weeks or a few days a week) and have opportunities for ons...... I am talking the majority of us who have a family/job with limited travel and a "normal" sex drive...... Edited April 9, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic
giotto Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 I thought the Alpha was sucked out of us by our mid 40's.... I was never alpha, really... who cares about all that? I like books...
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted April 9, 2010 Author Posted April 9, 2010 I was never alpha, really... who cares about all that? I like books... Neither am I.... maybe that is why we are here....
giotto Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 Neither am I.... maybe that is why we are here.... :laugh::laugh:
Lizzie60 Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 TDP, you do not disappoint. I saw you stared a thread, and I knew it would be about sexless marriages somehow....and I had this odd feeling that I would be mentioned somehow. And I was. As you said, less than three times a week is fine for me. But as you may have said, it is not the same quantity for every guy or gal. I have read of guys here who complained because they did not get sex every night. I agree and disagree. It is not simply the lack of sex as many guys here have said that they do not want pity sex. If my wife said she would have sex with me as often as I wanted simply to keep me happy even though she has no interest for herself, then eventually I would still remain unsatisfied. Why? Because for me and many guys, sex is more than simply a pleasurable release. It validates and expresses the love that our wives have for us. Women seek their validation and an expression of their husband's love in different ways. While some women see sex as very important, they see it more as being desirable to their husband (I think). Men see it as not only being desirable but also as being "the man." Many women do not see it as most men do..."My wife wants sex with me. She loves me." So while most men in a sexless marriage would say that having sex that often would solve all their problems, in reality many of them would soon tire of sex which is only done to give them release and which is not done as an expression of their wives' love. There are many reasons for cheating, and I do not believe that more sex would have prevented the affairs. Very good point... pity sex eventually leads to 'no sex' or 'rare sex'... so even if the wife says that she can give him all the sex he wants... men still want 'quality' sex... not just 'hurry-up-and-leave-me-alone' type of sex.. therefore men cheat whether they get sex or not.. but MOST don't even get it twice a month.
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted April 9, 2010 Author Posted April 9, 2010 Very good point... pity sex eventually leads to 'no sex' or 'rare sex'... so even if the wife says that she can give him all the sex he wants... men still want 'quality' sex... not just 'hurry-up-and-leave-me-alone' type of sex.. therefore men cheat whether they get sex or not.. but MOST don't even get it twice a month. Heck not sure if he even gets that:p (sorry JamesM).... Yet he worries about it, thus creating a never ending circular argument and battle for him.... I've said it before, leave these situations/scenarios out of it..... I have said if two people have happy loving quality sex 2-3X's/wk 90% would never cheat.... And I stand by that...... And Lizzie I agree with the 2X's/mth is probably the average for those in affairs (not ons)....
Lizzie60 Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 Heck not sure if he even gets that (sorry JamesM).... Yet he worries about it, thus creating a never ending circular argument and battle for him.... I've said it before, leave these situations/scenarios out of it..... I have said if two people have happy loving quality sex 2-3X's/wk 90% would never cheat.... And I stand by that...... And Lizzie I agree with the 2X's/mth is probably the average for those in affairs (not ons).... I don't know about James... but my MMs (some of them) got tired of pity sex... now they wait for her to initiate.. which is rare... and the Ws don't even have the slighest idea that her H is getting it outside... they probably think that he's finally have a lower libido just like her...
mem11363 Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 Love books and have read voraciously for 39 years now. Favorite types are non-fiction action/adventure/engineering/history - The Path Between the Seas - The Great Bridge - Longitude - Galileo's Daughter - Endurance: Shackelton's Incredible Voyage - Crashing Through - Shadow Divers - Our Marvelous Native Tongue (written by a linguist about the evolution of the English language) - The Right Stuff (Tom Wolf) - The Perfect Storm - A History of the English Speaking Peoples (by the Great Man himself) - The Scandal of the Season (Sophie Gee) I was never alpha, really... who cares about all that? I like books...
EnigmasMuse Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 So what about these men (or women) who get sex from their spouse right much but they still go out and cheat? Sometimes its not always about he "lack of" Sorry if this has already been asked, I didn't read all of the posts.
giotto Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 I don't know about James... but my MMs (some of them) got tired of pity sex... now they wait for her to initiate.. which is rare... and the Ws don't even have the slighest idea that her H is getting it outside... they probably think that he's finally have a lower libido just like her... If I cheated, I'm not sure my wife would have ever known it... she is just not very interested in sex and, if I left her alone, without requesting, we would have sex once a month... she would be happy that I'm not pestering her... But I have to agree with TDP... give most men sex twice a week and they will be happy, especially men in their mid-forties with kids... having said that, I wasn't getting it twice a week even in my thirties or late twenties...
JamesM Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 Heck not sure if he even gets that:p (sorry JamesM).... Yet he worries about it, thus creating a never ending circular argument and battle for him.... Usually I don't get "pity sex" per se because my wife knows that I wouldn't want that. And my definition of pity sex simply means that she does not participate with love. It does not mean that she simply doesn't have orgasms. An analogy (since you, TDP, like them ) is that while I may not like shopping with my wife, I can easily enjoy it with her. Going along and grumbling or showing obvious feelings of "I do this only for you" would be compared to pity sex. If I go shopping and actually enjoy it even though I am not buying anything and only because I know she enjoys it, then we both will enjoy it. Does that make some sense? Oh....apology accepted. Why do I get the feeling that you really weren't looking for an apology? I've said it before, leave these situations/scenarios out of it..... I have said if two people have happy loving quality sex 2-3X's/wk 90% would never cheat.... And I stand by that...... The bolded part is the key. It is not the quantity. If two people have that kind of sex once a week or as often as they BOTH desire it, then neither will cheat. The problem comes in when one of the partners does not feel that the sex is quality of enough in quantity. It is all about the mismatched libidos IMO. And Lizzie I agree with the 2X's/mth is probably the average for those in affairs (not ons).... You may well be correct for the average. Since my "count" is less and I am not in an affair and I know of a guy who cheated because his wife did not have sex with him two or three times a WEEK, it is hard for me to say that it is all about quantity but more about the relationship. Since it is guys like me who over think that make your threads hum, TDP, then let me say that IMO sex is but a symptom usually and not the cause of affairs. In my case while sex is lacking, the love and companionship from her is not. And I say that with complete honesty. If we had sex twice a week because of some huge physical attraction yet we were not great friends and did not have love and respect for each other, then I think I would be in a worse position. That is not to say that sex is not important, but by itself, it is not the cause of affairs. Happy and loving sex means that two people are happy with one another and love each other. Quality sex can be had by two skilled and passionate individuals who don't have deep feelings for each other. Another analogy....I enjoy singing (and am told I do okay at it). However good my voice may sound when singing a song, the person who sings the same song with deep feeling can make a stronger impression on the hearers simply because the audience can sense that this singer has experienced the words. So it is with sex. If my wife were exceptionally skilled at sex and yet does it without love and feeling for me, then I would sense that something is missing. And if she did it with love and passion for me, yet stumbled a little as she "performed" one me, I may actually find greater enjoyment. Sex is an expression not a technique.
Lizzie60 Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 If I cheated, I'm not sure my wife would have ever known it... she is just not very interested in sex and, if I left her alone, without requesting, we would have sex once a month... she would be happy that I'm not pestering her... But I have to agree with TDP... give most men sex twice a week and they will be happy, especially men in their mid-forties with kids... having said that, I wasn't getting it twice a week even in my thirties or late twenties... I know.. like my scout dad.. his W is a SAHM with 3 kids... they have a busy life.. he's a businessman, working long hours (sometimes in his office on weekends)... she has no time to think that her H is not home or that he's not 'begging' for sex.. she doesn't really have the energy to check him out... she completey trust him... He also knows that she is too busy (they are building their dream home now) and she trusts him. He knows his chances to get away with it .. since she has too many other things to focus on...
stillafool Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 I don't know about James... but my MMs (some of them) got tired of pity sex... now they wait for her to initiate.. which is rare... and the Ws don't even have the slighest idea that her H is getting it outside... they probably think that he's finally have a lower libido just like her... Wouldn't these guys be happier if they just got a divorce rather than cheating, lying and never getting sex at home? I don't see any incentive for them to be married. What, are they stupid and just want to be someone's paycheck? Odd.
Luv2dance Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 Since it is guys like me who over think that make your threads hum, TDP, then let me say that IMO sex is but a symptom usually and not the cause of affairs. In my case while sex is lacking, the love and companionship from her is not. And I say that with complete honesty. If we had sex twice a week because of some huge physical attraction yet we were not great friends and did not have love and respect for each other, then I think I would be in a worse position. That is not to say that sex is not important, but by itself, it is not the cause of affairs. I think you are right on with this!! For most people in long term committed relationships I think you really need both components to make it "work". As I've been reading more on LS I am finding that men really do need the connection and intimacy that women need. So, maybe it looks like a lack of sex is the issue but it is really the other problems in the marriage leading to the lack of sex that drive men (& women) to affairs. NOT that that justifies the affair just sayin...
EnigmasMuse Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 I agree, its not just the lack of sex, there are a number of other issues, that lead up to there being lack of sex to begin with. Until those issues are brought to the surface and delt with, then the lack of sex will probably continue.
Lizzie60 Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 Wouldn't these guys be happier if they just got a divorce rather than cheating, lying and never getting sex at home? I don't see any incentive for them to be married. What, are they stupid and just want to be someone's paycheck? Odd. Why would he do that.. live away from his children.. give half of all their assets, houses, etc.. pension... he's be stupid to give up all that... It would be much easier IMO if the Ws would be more willing to give their Hs what they really need...
BlueeyedJonesy Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 lizzie lizzie lizzie, How many times do we have to hear about your "scout dad" and/or other dads? We all know they are "great men" who just "don't get enough at home" and the dumb wives will never find out because they are just too busy rounding up kids and building dream homes..but do I really have to read about it on every damn forum? IMHO, Men who stay in a sexless M and don't seek couseling or if all else fails DIVORCE...are cowards!! Why stay in a M that isn't working? and then try to convince yourself that your doing the right thing because your sticking it somewhere else and not bothering your W anymore..PuUULease!!!! Lizzie..I think you convice yourself that you are doing good for mankind because you offer sex on the side to these "good men" in reality you are an enabler. Just like you said your 26 yr old with a young hot wife and high libido (we all know how you love to brag) if they have sex all the time then aren't you just a hole to fill for a sex addict? Please don't try to convince us that you are only helping the situation...if thats what you tell yourself everynight then thats fine but don't come on here and try to justify it! MEN GET A ****ING GRIP AND STOP THINKING THE WORLD REVOLVES AROUND SEX!!! AND IF YOUR WORLD DOES THEN GET AHOLD OF YOUR BALLS AND MAN UP!!!!! walk away Just my two cents.
Lizzie60 Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 lizzie lizzie lizzie, How many times do we have to hear about your "scout dad" and/or other dads? We all know they are "great men" who just "don't get enough at home" and the dumb wives will never find out because they are just too busy rounding up kids and building dream homes..but do I really have to read about it on every damn forum? IMHO, Men who stay in a sexless M and don't seek couseling or if all else fails DIVORCE...are cowards!! Why stay in a M that isn't working? and then try to convince yourself that your doing the right thing because your sticking it somewhere else and not bothering your W anymore..PuUULease!!!! Lizzie..I think you convice yourself that you are doing good for mankind because you offer sex on the side to these "good men" in reality you are an enabler. Just like you said your 26 yr old with a young hot wife and high libido (we all know how you love to brag) if they have sex all the time then aren't you just a hole to fill for a sex addict? Please don't try to convince us that you are only helping the situation...if thats what you tell yourself everynight then thats fine but don't come on here and try to justify it! MEN GET A ****ING GRIP AND STOP THINKING THE WORLD REVOLVES AROUND SEX!!! AND IF YOUR WORLD DOES THEN GET AHOLD OF YOUR BALLS AND MAN UP!!!!! walk away Just my two cents. Nope.. you don't have to read my posts in every forum... you can just skip them... simple... Counselling for the MM is pointless if he rarely gets sex.. maybe the W should be doing the counselling.. Humm.. methink you withhold sex.. you know what I'm talking about.. Life may not resolve around sex for women with low or no libido at all.. but sex is a HUGE part of a loving couple..
BlueeyedJonesy Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 Methink you should withold your assumptions about my sex life considering its possibly higher than my H's!
BlueeyedJonesy Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 and you know what a loving couple is all about right? I agree with u 100% that sex is a huge part..If I wasn't into it or my H wasn't into it we would be making a trip to the DR.. but why just sit in silence when it comes to something that means alot to both MEN and WOMEN? Humans are all about excuses and justifications...
Lizzie60 Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 I agree, its not just the lack of sex, there are a number of other issues, that lead up to there being lack of sex to begin with. Until those issues are brought to the surface and delt with, then the lack of sex will probably continue. I totally agree. Couples get busy with work, kids, bills, house and car maintenance, etc.. etc.. all that takes a toll on their energy... I think that most couples, after a few years, get comfortable in their sex life.. it gets robotic.. because they don't have the energy anymore to find new tricks every night.. they just do it the same way, in the same pattern, time after time.. it ends up being boring.. but just enough to keep everyone happy... then a few years later it becomes like all the rest, a CHORE.... btdt..
giotto Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 I'm so hearin' ya BEJ. Yes, sex is important in a relationship, but usually women want to FEEL like having sex with a man first. These so-called "good men" are most likely self serving jackasses, thus, their wives aren't so inclined to want to do 'em. After all, they're cheaters too. Self centered? Methinks very much. we are good men, we are not jackasses. We listen to our wives, we try and solve the situation, we don't want to cheat, and if we get no results we stay at the end because we adore our family, our children... is this a difficult concept to grasp?
seren Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 There are threads from people who are having A's that speak of love, connection and feeling they are in relationships. I don't agree with A's (my H had one) but I understand people falling in love. While I respect Lizzie's honesty about her meeting men for sex and all of them knowing what they are meeting for, I wouldn't call it an A as such, more a meeting of needy people. I think to say that people, sorry men have affairs or sex with others simply because they aren't having sex at home is stereotypical, at the expense of OW, men and BS. IMO it wouldn't work for me, I have too much respect for me (not popping at Lizzie, she knows what works for her) I want love and romance in my relationship and yes I want, have and get dammed good sex too.
stillafool Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 Why would he do that.. live away from his children.. give half of all their assets, houses, etc.. pension... he's be stupid to give up all that... I agree. Therefore men like these should never marry. This way they can keep all their assets. They can also have kids with women who don't want husbands but are looking for a parenting partner. It just doesn't make sense to ruin another persons life and expose them to diseases when clearly there are other options for these men. It would be much easier IMO if the Ws would be more willing to give their Hs what they really need... IMO it would be much easier for everyone if these guys stayed single as that seems to be what they really need.
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