Bored of topics posted of late....

[mem11363]

I don't know statistically the correlation between starvation at home causing folks to wander off the reservation.

 

I will say that after being in a number of situations where social pressure was applied to get me to breach my vows/cheat - being very well fed has made it much easier to just say no to temptation.

 

When these other guys have pressed the point I just say:

"my wife has earned my loyalty, plus I am scared of her"

 

The fear by itself wouldn't have stopped me.

 

 

Yes there some like your ex-husband.... Also there are one night stands, but those looking for affairs (long-term connections) I think do so the majority of the time because of a lack of sex at home....

[soserious1]

Yes there some like your ex-husband.... Also there are one night stands, but those looking for affairs (long-term connections) I think do so the majority of the time because of a lack of sex at home....

 

Actually I would think if one was wandering purely due to lack of sex at home, that ONS would be the preferred option. The wanderer gets physical release with a variety of partners who disappear afterward, no messy emotional entanglements.

 

I have a very normal sexual drive, when confronted with the dilemma of a sexless marriage I did NOT chose to cheat (and make no mistake, that is exactly what it is.. a choice not something you're forced into) I chose to try to figure out what was wrong, what was my wrong doing? what was I doing/not doing that was turning my husband off, then I chose to investigate, what was he up to behind my back? After all that I chose to confront & be very clear that I had zero intentions of remaining in a sexless marriage for the rest of my life and I listed our options, including opening the marriage which he refused, the end result of all of that was a divorce.

 

I personally think that when you get to the point that sexual issues are a battleground, when you're having to seriously talk divorce that the marriage is over.. you reach a point of no return with this stuff, a point at which even if they refusing spouse came crawling begging you for sex that you would not only no longer be interested, you'd actually be turned off by them. Getting to that place is very painful, it beats your self-esteem into the ground

but IMHO knowing that I honored MY vows was/is very important to me. It shows me that yes, I can set standards/limits for myself and hold onto those beliefs

even during times of great turmoil. I have honor, I have good character.

 

I also think that if we were to speak with the spouses of wanderers that we'd get a very different version of the "I don't get any sex at home" song, there are 2 sides to every story and someplace in the middle of the two the truth is usually found.

[giotto]

Personally, I would never cheat, but then, if the only other option is a sexless marriage, as so serious1 says, you try and sort your marriage... unfortunately, divorcing for sex reasons is still frowned upon, at least where I'm from...

[JamesM]

Actually I would think if one was wandering purely due to lack of sex at home, that ONS would be the preferred option. The wanderer gets physical release with a variety of partners who disappear afterward, no messy emotional entanglements.

 

I would agree. When one starts an affair, then this introduces an emotional aspect, and if sex is the only thing missing, then adding the emotional element would not be desirable.

 

Personally, this is a big reason (one of many) why I could not have an affair. While the sex is missing, the friendship is not. Betraying our sexual fidelity is one thing that seems less of a problem (just being honest) than betraying our friendship.

 

I personally think that when you get to the point that sexual issues are a battleground, when you're having to seriously talk divorce that the marriage is over.. you reach a point of no return with this stuff, a point at which even if they refusing spouse came crawling begging you for sex that you would not only no longer be interested, you'd actually be turned off by them.

 

I would agree. Even when I have issued almost ultimatums, the results do not make me completely satisfied, because I know that she is doing it out of either fear of losing me or a temporary empathy for me. This is not the same as a passion for me physically.

 

I also think that if we were to speak with the spouses of wanderers that we'd get a very different version of the "I don't get any sex at home" song, there are 2 sides to every story and someplace in the middle of the two the truth is usually found.

 

Agreed...there are two sides to every story, but so many are quick to assume that if a guy is not getting sex, then he must be doing something wrong and if a woman is not getting sex, then her husband has something wrong with him.

 

We have a double standard...men love sex and women don't always. So if men want it and aren't getting it, then it is their fault. If women want it and aren't getting it, then it is the man's fault.

 

Either way, men are screwed...even when they aren't.

 

... unfortunately, divorcing for sex reasons is still frowned upon, at least where I'm from...

 

And that is why so many are "forced" into making a choice. Live with it, leave it, or simply and quietly have an affair. While there is always a choice, putting someone in a sexless situation makes the choice the only attractive option. And when a situation arises that offers an affair, many individuals choose the affair step by step because they are starved for the physical (or in some cases, emotional) connection that the affair offers.

 

The question to anyone reading this is...do you want YOUR mate to feel that an affair is an attractive option, or do you want him or her to think that betraying you is much more painful than the possible pleasure that an affair could offer?

[soserious1]

Personally, I would never cheat, but then, if the only other option is a sexless marriage, as so serious1 says, you try and sort your marriage... unfortunately, divorcing for sex reasons is still frowned upon, at least where I'm from...

 

I think in today's world many have lost all boundaries, they feel perfectly comfy airing intimate details of their lives to anyone who will listen.

 

Nobody in my real time life knows the exact reasons for my divorce aside from my therapist & my lawyer. I've simply & quietly stated that we had major differences that we could not reach agreement on & that those differences made remaining married impossible.

 

Polite people react to such a quiet announcement very graciously, probably relieved that they aren't going to be subjected to a drama filled filled monologue that leaves them feeling like guests on the Jerry Springer show.

[soserious1]

I would agree. When one starts an affair, then this introduces an emotional aspect, and if sex is the only thing missing, then adding the emotional element would not be desirable.

 

Personally, this is a big reason (one of many) why I could not have an affair. While the sex is missing, the friendship is not. Betraying our sexual fidelity is one thing that seems less of a problem (just being honest) than betraying our friendship.

 

 

 

I would agree. Even when I have issued almost ultimatums, the results do not make me completely satisfied, because I know that she is doing it out of either fear of losing me or a temporary empathy for me. This is not the same as a passion for me physically.

 

 

 

Agreed...there are two sides to every story, but so many are quick to assume that if a guy is not getting sex, then he must be doing something wrong and if a woman is not getting sex, then her husband has something wrong with him.

 

We have a double standard...men love sex and women don't always. So if men want it and aren't getting it, then it is their fault. If women want it and aren't getting it, then it is the man's fault.

 

Either way, men are screwed...even when they aren't.

 

 

 

And that is why so many are "forced" into making a choice. Live with it, leave it, or simply and quietly have an affair. While there is always a choice, putting someone in a sexless situation makes the choice the only attractive option. And when a situation arises that offers an affair, many individuals choose the affair step by step because they are starved for the physical (or in some cases, emotional) connection that the affair offers.

 

The question to anyone reading this is...do you want YOUR mate to feel that an affair is an attractive option, or do you want him or her to think that betraying you is much more painful than the possible pleasure that an affair could offer?

 

What I wanted in the end was an explanation that put to rest all the crazy drama in my head & in our lives. I wanted the respect of being given the truth by my husband & being given that truth willingly & in a respectful way by him. Whatever my faults (and they are many) I didn't do anything so horrible as to deserve the ending that I got. Had he been honest that he no longer desired me intimately but expressed that in a non-abusive way, we might have actually been able to negotiate an open marriage or some compromise that enabled us to weather what I still feel is his own massive mid-life crisis.

 

Men are assumed to want sex all the time, some even say that men will have sex with unattractive women simply because she's there & willing. Based on such thinking then, there must be something seriously WRONG with a woman who's husband doesn't want her. She must be a disgusting fat pig, who smells or perhaps she's a horrible nagging shew, if he's unemployed perhaps she's not supportive & treats him like crap for not earning, if she is supportive and quietly pays the bills why then she's lording her money over him & emasculating him with her earning power.

 

Women with husbands who refuse sex are in the exact same damned if you do, damned if you don't place that men with wives who are sexual refusers are.. but with the added twist that the fault surely must rest with her because after all everybody knows men want sex all the time.

 

 

And that in the end is what I'm left with, the sense that I cannot talk of this openly with anyone, that somehow it must be my fault & that I must be sexually unappealing to a disgusting degree if a man whom I loved & supported didn't want to touch me. It's a curious mix of sadness, shame & yes anger left to me as my divorce settlement award.

 

 

I vote for honesty in the end, quietly respectfully spoken

but honesty.. if you can't stay in a sexless marriage you say that, you don't threaten or belittle but you say it, if being with others, opening the marriage is a thought you're having, you say that too, clearly, openly, you discuss it.. slipping off to cheat IMHO is not an option.

[giotto]

 

I vote for honesty in the end, quietly respectfully spoken

but honesty.. if you can't stay in a sexless marriage you say that, you don't threaten or belittle but you say it, if being with others, opening the marriage is a thought you're having, you say that too, clearly, openly, you discuss it.. slipping off to cheat IMHO is not an option.

 

I think you touch an important point here, soserious1... I vote for honesty too. It's essential to be told what's going on and denying the truth is a sentence for the very person who is supposed to be loved, appreciated and cherished. I don't really know why people lie, or are "economical with the truth"... I suppose they are ill, too lazy, too scared, too arrogant, too inadequate... it will remain a mystery to me...

[JamesM]

What I wanted in the end was an explanation that put to rest all the crazy drama in my head & in our lives. I wanted the respect of being given the truth by my husband & being given that truth willingly & in a respectful way by him.

 

That is an excellent way of putting it. Not knowing why there is no sex is what makes it the most frustrating. Knowing why gives me (or you or the person not getting sex) something to grasp onto. With that knowledge I may even be able to find a solution. But at least if I know, then I can make an informed and final decision.

 

Women with husbands who refuse sex are in the exact same damned if you do, damned if you don't place that men with wives who are sexual refusers are.. but with the added twist that the fault surely must rest with her because after all everybody knows men want sex all the time.

 

I hadn't thought of it this way. I worked with a lady whose husband had no interest in sex and I know she was very much interested in sex. No, she never approached me, because she liked my wife (if that makes sense). However, reading what you said explains some of what she said.

 

Hugs to you.

 

 

And that in the end is what I'm left with, the sense that I cannot talk of this openly with anyone, that somehow it must be my fault & that I must be sexually unappealing to a disgusting degree if a man whom I loved & supported didn't want to touch me. It's a curious mix of sadness, shame & yes anger left to me as my divorce settlement award.

 

 

Well said. Again, this says my feelings, too. The most frustrating part is that the power rests with the one who doesn't desire sex.

 

You have given me a different perspective and one that has helped me. Than you.

[mem11363]

Your H is a sad excuse for a human being. You truly seem like a very decent person and your particular sexual preferences are very very normal. His fear of aging - well that will eventually bite him hard.

 

 

Actually I would think if one was wandering purely due to lack of sex at home, that ONS would be the preferred option. The wanderer gets physical release with a variety of partners who disappear afterward, no messy emotional entanglements.

 

I have a very normal sexual drive, when confronted with the dilemma of a sexless marriage I did NOT chose to cheat (and make no mistake, that is exactly what it is.. a choice not something you're forced into) I chose to try to figure out what was wrong, what was my wrong doing? what was I doing/not doing that was turning my husband off, then I chose to investigate, what was he up to behind my back? After all that I chose to confront & be very clear that I had zero intentions of remaining in a sexless marriage for the rest of my life and I listed our options, including opening the marriage which he refused, the end result of all of that was a divorce.

 

I personally think that when you get to the point that sexual issues are a battleground, when you're having to seriously talk divorce that the marriage is over.. you reach a point of no return with this stuff, a point at which even if they refusing spouse came crawling begging you for sex that you would not only no longer be interested, you'd actually be turned off by them. Getting to that place is very painful, it beats your self-esteem into the ground

but IMHO knowing that I honored MY vows was/is very important to me. It shows me that yes, I can set standards/limits for myself and hold onto those beliefs

even during times of great turmoil. I have honor, I have good character.

 

I also think that if we were to speak with the spouses of wanderers that we'd get a very different version of the "I don't get any sex at home" song, there are 2 sides to every story and someplace in the middle of the two the truth is usually found.

[Lizzie60]

So I go over to the OW/OM section and see our pal Lizzie60 has started a thread.

 

I read the following and again see red and laugh that we have a topic that piques my interest.

 

Here is the post again talking about why there are affairs and a woman mad that the men is never blamed about sex.....

 

 

"Why do people always think the wife is withholding? Maybe the husband sucks in bed? Maybe the husband isn't 'doing it' for his wife anymore? Maybe he just doesn't turn her on? Why is it blaming is always laid at the wife's feet...if she just put out more, if she just dressed up sexy more, if she just.....(fill in the blank)? What about if he just helped out more, she may not be so tired? what about if he actually took the time to ensure she was getting some satisfaction? What if he brushed his teeth or rinsed off first and wasn't stinky? What if he didn't let himself go? What if he tried foreplay more? What if he actually planned a romantic get away for them? What if he .. (fill in the blank)?

 

Not one single person outside the married couple KNOWS what goes on at home. Most of what we hear on here is conjecture and assumptions..and probably a bunch of lies from the MM Maybe if he was honest with his wife and/or himself there would be no need for the services of someone like Lizzie?

 

As for affairs not being a betrayal for the kids -- I believe it IS a betrayal. Betrayal because instead of being out with the OW, dad could be at home with his kids, playing ball, helping with homework, reading a bedtime story. So in MY view, dad IS short changing his kids unless he is doing all of his cheating while (a) the kids are in school or (b) it is after the kids go to bed. Other than that, in MY mind, it is a betrayal. And I do believe cheating is emotionally abusive - UNLESS the cheater tells his/her partner that they are out getting sex elsewhere. Unless the cheater is honest with the spouse, then it is emotionally abusive. And I highly doubt the MM ou

 

Funny... I just re-read this post.. because I had a discussion with my favourite MM tonite... I've been see him every now and then for the last 4 years. We had a long and 'profound' discussion tonite.. about marriage (common-law).. he's 44, has been with the same woman for the last 14 years.. has a 10 yr old son. He's my BEST lover.. I told him again tonite that if I were his W, I would insure his tongue for a million dollars..

 

He said almost the exact same words as the bold part.. He said that he had lots of discussion with his male buddies about this... ALL his friends are in the same boat... sex-starved.. and he was wondering WHY so many men are in sexless relationships..

 

One of his friend is leaving his wife because he can't live like that any longer.. He has no clue if his friends are having affairs though.. He thinks they are... most of them have said that they are done begging for sex.. they won't nag anymore..

 

In my MM's case.. he said he also stopped begging for sex... that's his compromise to keep the peace in the house.. they both adore their only child.. she seems happy about it.. he said it's been months since he had sex with her.. he said that's the sacrifice he has to do in order to keep their lifestyle... (nice house, good jobs, money, great kid, vehicles, cottage, etc.)...

 

So he said MOST men are in sexless in long-term marriage/common-law...

[stella79]

Wow..that makes Marriage sound so appealing!

[soserious1]

Wow..that makes Marriage sound so appealing!

 

With all due respect to Lizzie who I actually like, I feel that her survey results are rather biased. Most men learn pretty young that coming out and telling a woman "Hey my wife is awesome, I'm just hitting on you because I want some strange" is not real likely to get them what they want. Singing the "I'm a poor, misunderstood good guy" song garners tea, sympathy & frequently sex, guys who sing the song well can have several women on the side all putting out, all feeling badly for them & can often string those women along for quite some time. Very few people want to bed somebody who comes right out and bluntly displays the fact that he or she is a total creep who seriously lacks empathy or morals.

 

Very often it isn't till a woman finally seriously tries to get one of these guys to commit to getting a divorce that he finally spills the truth, that he doesn't want a divorce, that he was just after a little fun.

Edited April 17, 2010 by soserious1

[Toodamnpragmatic]

With all due respect to Lizzie who I actually like, I feel that her survey results are rather biased. Most men learn pretty young that coming out and telling a woman "Hey my wife is awesome, I'm just hitting on you because I want some strange" is not real likely to get them what they want. Singing the "I'm a poor, misunderstood good guy" song garners tea, sympathy & frequently sex, guys who sing the song well can have several women on the side all putting out, all feeling badly for them & can often string those women along for quite some time. Very few people want to bed somebody who comes right out and bluntly displays the fact that he or she is a total creep who seriously lacks empathy or morals.

 

Very often it isn't till a woman finally seriously tries to get one of these guys to commit to getting a divorce that he finally spills the truth, that he doesn't want a divorce, that he was just after a little fun.

 

here are lying along with their friends, who claim the same.... I think very few married men w/family 35-50 (as per my original) post are actually looking for "strange" as part of their DNA. We are pretty boring and just want a happy marriage and some regular sex...... Hell, how do you have time????

[xxoo]

here are lying along with their friends, who claim the same.... I think very few married men w/family 35-50 (as per my original) post are actually looking for "strange" as part of their DNA. We are pretty boring and just want a happy marriage and some regular sex...... Hell, how do you have time????

 

Lizzie's MM find the time

 

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. There are men (and women) living unhappily in sexless marriages.

 

There are men (and women) in decent marriages who cheat for the excitement...or for the ego boost. I personally know one man who cheated on his wife because he was losing sexual interest as she aged. She was 40, he 53, when he finally left her and married a younger woman. I know from his mouth that they were still having sex 1-2x a week when he started looking elsewhere. Women hear these stories all the time, and their effect on us (disheartened, disgusted, hopeless) is probably comparable to the effect that sexless marriage stories have on you.

 

When a woman gets involved with a married man, she is likely to hear the "sexless marriage" story whether it is true or not.

[mem11363]

I don't believe that Lizzie's sample is right and all the stats I read on sex in marriage are wrong.

 

And I know enough couples who are still highly sexual after 20 years

 

 

 

Wow..that makes Marriage sound so appealing!

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I don't believe that Lizzie's sample is right and all the stats I read on sex in marriage are wrong.

 

And I know enough couples who are still highly sexual after 20 years

 

I know none or at least they don't say anything to me..... Not a single male I know who does not say they get too much sex, that's for sure.....

[BlackLovely]

Nothing wrong with being childless.... However if the only reason is worrying about your appearance and sex life, you really should re-evaluate your priorities.....

 

I said we would be childFREE, as in gladly free of children, not childLESS, as in wanting a child but can't have one. We feel that we will be much happier without children to suck up the majority of our time, energy and money.

 

Why should I re-evaluate my priorities if I'm comfortable with them? We all prioritize different aspects of life. Who are you to tell me what "good" reasons there are for choosing not to be a mother? That's not your place at all.

 

I agree with what Lizzie60 said. I think motherhood causes women to lose focus on their sex lives. Not to say that married parents don't have sex, but they cannot possibly be as spontaneous as a childfree couple can. I would hate to have to schedule "date nights" or worry about a babysitter when I wanted some adult time. Bleh! No babies for me thanks.