Anger

[Leia]

Another thread made me think of this topic. Do you feel anger is a healthy emotion? If so or not, why or why not?

 

Anger is a healthy emotion, for me. I don't cry when I get angry, unlike my sister. I scream, or if I can get hold of something, I throw things but only when I am alone, usually in the safety of my own home. I don't like to keep the anger inside of me. I like to let it all out and after that, I feel much better so that makes it healthy.

[skydiveaddict]

Anger is a healthy emotion, for me. I don't cry when I get angry, unlike my sister. I scream, or if I can get hold of something, I throw things but only when I am alone, usually in the safety of my own home. I don't like to keep the anger inside of me. I like to let it all out and after that, I feel much better so that makes it healthy.

 

 

I think anger is ok if you have an oulet for it.. But it can ruin you if that outlet isnt there. It's like a hot fire deep inside that won't let go.

[D-Lish]

D, you're one of the good ones, someone who's got heart and smarts combined. Part of that journey to learning how to trust again, is also, finding someone worth trusting. I have no doubt that you'll get there, when you're ready.

 

Thanks:love: I'm also a bit crazy sometimes too, but I have full insight into it- they say insight is half the battle.

 

You have found someone to let go with and trust- so I know it's out there.

 

 

Nothing really, beyond another thread that mentioned anger and how it's viewed. Anger is a fascinating emotion to me. The strength of it, can move mountains.

 

It can move things, and it can decimate things in such a variety of ways.

It can also be useful- and it can be a motivator for positive outcomes.

Anger without control is dangerous and detrimental- bottom line.

 

I wouldn't have been able to keep the job I have now without managing my anger- because I get riled up pretty much everyday. Diplomacy is key. Remaining professional toward people you hate is a core job skill that transfers into a myriad of situations.

[Trimmer]

What I am learning is that all emotions serve a purpose, but you have to learn how to identify and interpret them correctly.

I think this is a valuable point, which ties in with points made earlier (with which I also agree) that anger is often underlaid by fear and/or frustration. I would think an ability to indentify and interpret those textures would be of great use in "handling" that spectrum of emotions.

[pureinheart]

Another thread made me think of this topic. Do you feel anger is a healthy emotion? If so or not, why or why not?

 

Hi TBF,

 

Yes it is a "healthy" expression, which IMO must be expressed in a healthy way. When in this process I have not always acted appropriately, although when I did express this properly I found many ways to release such a powerful emotion that can easily turn into hate.

 

Anger is part of a healing process, although 1 of many. Personally I think many get stuck in this one.

[pureinheart]

Thanks:love: I'm also a bit crazy sometimes too, but I have full insight into it- they say insight is half the battle.

 

You have found someone to let go with and trust- so I know it's out there.

 

 

 

 

It can move things, and it can decimate things in such a variety of ways.

It can also be useful- and it can be a motivator for positive outcomes.

Anger without control is dangerous and detrimental- bottom line.

 

I wouldn't have been able to keep the job I have now without managing my anger- because I get riled up pretty much everyday. Diplomacy is key. Remaining professional toward people you hate is a core job skill that transfers into a myriad of situations.

 

This is difficult!!!!! It takes much energy and awarness as every word must be weighed, every action and thoughts must be kept in check.

 

I worked with people that were truely messed up in the head, it was a contant battle as these people were really abusive.

 

It is a good teacher though as you learn the hard way how to "say it right", leaving out the sarcasm and mixed messages.

[pureinheart]

Anger is a healthy emotion, for me. I don't cry when I get angry, unlike my sister. I scream, or if I can get hold of something, I throw things but only when I am alone, usually in the safety of my own home. I don't like to keep the anger inside of me. I like to let it all out and after that, I feel much better so that makes it healthy.

 

LOL...this is a cool topic....

 

One time I was like at my total witts end, last nerve etc..thinking I was alone was throwing stuff everywhere and threw a plate like a frizbee and my daughter walked through the door and ducked (thank God)...but ya, that's one of my methods...threw a heavy chair and one of the 2 of the legs went though the wall into the other room...so hence a chair on my wall.

[TaraMaiden]

As far as I am concerned, my feelings are that any manifestation of Anger, however healthy and beneficial it might feel, leaves something in its wake. No matter how better we feel, no matter how justified we think we are, (because someone, somewhere, is going to disagree) no matter how constructive we try to make it, there will always be an element of regret, a situation that may to one extent or another, need remedying.

Anger always 'breaks' something, which needs repair, as far as it can be repaired.

 

Sometimes, the repair is so obvious, it's like a huge scar on the face of the planet. At other times, the repair is so precise and detailed, you can't see the join.

But no matter how skilfully matters have been addressed, you always know that something got broken.....

[Ronni_W]

Anger always 'breaks' something, which needs repair, as far as it can be repaired.

But no matter how skilfully matters have been addressed, you always know that something got broken.....

Or, anger is just a natural consequence after something else gets broken; a sign that something needs/needed to be repaired? Whether it's a real social injustice or a perceived personal slight, the emotion of anger is how we know that something needs to be done to "fix it". (Of course, in the case of a perceived slight, it's more that we just believe that we need to do something to fix a 'trespass against' us.)

 

To me, all emotions work the same way -- information about what we think of and how we experienced a particular event that has already happened or circumstance that is already our reality.

[TaraMaiden]

Or, anger is just a natural consequence after something else gets broken; a sign that something needs/needed to be repaired? Whether it's a real social injustice or a perceived personal slight, the emotion of anger is how we know that something needs to be done to "fix it". (Of course, in the case of a perceived slight, it's more that we just believe that we need to do something to fix a 'trespass against' us.)

 

To me, all emotions work the same way -- information about what we think of and how we experienced a particular event that has already happened or circumstance that is already our reality.

Aaah....Wonderful, Ronni_w....

Now we're getting somewhere.

perception, and 'our' reality.

 

'Our' reality is precisely that.

'Our' perception is precisely that.

 

Both 'ours'.

Therefore, in any given circumstance, what we perceive as real, may to others be a completely different perception of reality. Somewhat like looking through a diamond via the different facets... each providing an image, but only visible from our angle, in that precise way...

So the important thing to do, when we feel emotions arise, is to pay close attention to our perception and reality... and question whether they are distorted and slanted and giving us an image, or view, unique to us....

Examination of the seat - the source, the origin - of Anger, is what is required, to evaluate it's dimension and appropriate manifestation.

 

(of course, I have this down to a fine art....)

[Ronni_W]

Examination of the seat - the source, the origin - of Anger, is what is required, to evaluate it's dimension and appropriate manifestation.

Not just "anger", though. Love, as well. And trust. And respect. And peace. And...and...and. ALL the emotions and body-felt sensations.

 

For sure it's all experienced through our own, personal, unique filters, which, for me, could well include bits and pieces of all our experiences in every direction of time and space (and through all dimensions in which time and space do not exist.)

 

(of course, I have this down to a fine art....)

You and me, both, Tara. You and me, both

[TaraMaiden]

Not just "anger", though. Love, as well. And trust. And respect. And peace. And...and...and. ALL the emotions and body-felt sensations.

I absolutely agree. I was merely focussing on 'Anger' as thread-topic, but of course, all emotions would have to be scrutinised this way.

 

For sure it's all experienced through our own, personal, unique filters, which, for me, could well include bits and pieces of all our experiences in every direction of time and space (and through all dimensions in which time and space do not exist.)

This is what is true of everyone.

but being so bogged down with tackling this thing called life, one is not apt to always stop to consider this.... it's like crossing a floor covered in a single layer of marbles.....

 

You and me, both, Tara. You and me, both

[blind_otter]

As far as I am concerned, my feelings are that any manifestation of Anger, however healthy and beneficial it might feel, leaves something in its wake. No matter how better we feel, no matter how justified we think we are, (because someone, somewhere, is going to disagree) no matter how constructive we try to make it, there will always be an element of regret, a situation that may to one extent or another, need remedying.

Anger always 'breaks' something, which needs repair, as far as it can be repaired.

 

Sometimes, the repair is so obvious, it's like a huge scar on the face of the planet. At other times, the repair is so precise and detailed, you can't see the join.

But no matter how skilfully matters have been addressed, you always know that something got broken.....

 

IME when you try to suppress or annihilate any part of your psyche, it will just grow stronger. Anger only breaks something if you act from the energy of anger. The highest yoga is being able to take in the suffering of others (IME Anger is almost always mainly based in suffering) and NOT transmit it beyond yourself.

 

The idea is to feel that fire - the heat, the fire of anger, and keep it contained within your self. As it burns, it purifies - somewhat like gold must be thrust into fires at high temperatures to burn out the impurities, or like a piece of coal must endure immense pressure and heat to have a more finely organized crystalline structure - a diamond.

 

Thich Naht Hahn speaks of gardening in relation to anger - composting, for one. I love the analogy, because I, I suppose. You take garbage, and with love, attention, and mindfulness, you change it into something rich and useful.

 

He also speaks of watering the seeds of compassion. That you should not recklessly try to pull out and destroy the seeds of anger within you, but you should water the seeds of compassion, and compassion is the only antidote to Anger.

 

I highly recommend his book "Anger: Wisdom for Cooling the Flames" as well as Jeffrey Hopkin's "Cultivating Compassion, a Buddhist perspective". Both of those are great resources for me in learning to embrace and understand the finer nuances of my emotions so that I can properly apply the information they are relaying to me.

 

thinking can be transformed through training and discipline into a “higher” organ of perception. Rudolf Steiner, in his Ph.D. work on Goethe’s scientific writings, articulates:

 

“Thinking… is no more and no less an organ of perception than the eye or ear. Just as the eye perceives colours and the ear sounds, so thinking perceives ideas."

 

- Rudolph Steiner (creater, among other things, of the Waldorf theory of education)

 

Training and discipline can transform the human mind into a higher organ of perception. This is where the insight that ALL emotions serve a purpose originates.

 

And of course, there is the whole idea that you are perfect, just as you are - it is your mind and attitude that needs adjustment and alteration. This is a common theme not only in Buddhism, but in most every Eastern theological tradition.

[TaraMaiden]

Rather than quote and snip, I will say I agree with your premise of transforming Anger into Compassion.

I think I may not have expressed myself skilfully enough (if this is the perception...that word again!) in that I agree that it's not a case of not permitting anger to arise or manifest. I am indeed, not saying that...

I think emotional suppression is dangerous and counter-productive. (I believe I said that in another post on this thread.... about a valve blowing.....)

The analogy of TNH's of comparing Anger to composting is a wonderful one.

Processing the Anger is perhaps the most useful thing we can do with it....

 

I recently picked up (via a recommendation) a book by HH the DL titled "Destructive emotions" [written in association with Daniel Goldman] which actually analyses cerebral activity during particular mental phases, and the damaging effects to the actual fabric of the brain when it is subjected to emotional pressure.

But there I must stop.

I haven't started it yet, so cannot comment. but it's bound to be a worthy tome, as The Dalai lama has been an advocate of scientific study and co-operation, regarding meditation and its effects, for many years.....

I don't wish to steer the thread off-topic too far.

 

Suffice it for me to say that I am of the firm and fundamental conviction that Anger - in and of itself - is counter-productive, and solves nothing, It more often than no creates worse problems.

The trick with Anger is to get the better of IT.

 

Thanks for your post, blind_otter. Nice reading.

[threebyfate]

TM, I agree that most often, it's better to reroute anger to something positive or to honestly let it go. Where I disagree is that it can't be used for the tool it can be, just like any other powerful emotion.

[TaraMaiden]

Well, to be honest, you can use it any way you like.

it's just that the consequences change according to method and application.

Some uses result in better repercussions than others.

But there's always an effect.

 

I'm sure "Anger" seems justified and righteous, many times. I'm equally sure many people believe they use their anger skilfully.

Unfortunately, in both cases, it's not usually so.

What might "Seem a good idea at the time", unfortunately has a habit of biting us in the ass, in one way or another...

 

And no, just for once, I'm not talking Kamma/Karma!

[threebyfate]

Let's take internalized anger. Are you suggesting you can't use it as a coping tool to move on from a break up?

[blind_otter]

Let's take internalized anger. Are you suggesting you can't use it as a coping tool to move on from a break up?

 

TBF, I agree with you (this has to be a record, or maybe I'm just more emotionally mature nowadays).

 

Thich Naht Hahn talks about how you must embrace your anger - like a mother embraces a crying baby - because your anger is telling you something. It lights a fire under your ass, figuratively.

 

I, for one, have traveled the rough terrain of a complex and vast emotional landscape. I have been paralyzed by depression, blinded by rage, lifted like a phoenix by joy, dashed on the rocks by disappointment. I think all of us have.

 

But if you have ever been truly paralyzed with depression - to the point where you feel a physical weight on your flesh, one that makes it difficult to even pick yourself bodily up off the ground, you know the value of fiery anger.

 

I've seen and lived with people who did benefit from the motivation that anger provided. They weren't the nicest, easiest people to be around at all, but they were colorful and interesting.

[TaraMaiden]

Let's take internalized anger. Are you suggesting you can't use it as a coping tool to move on from a break up?

No, I'm not suggesting that.

I already said, you can use it any way you like.

 

But as Ronni_w pointed out, this is applicable to all and every emotion's manifestation. Whatever you do with it, will bring a result of one kind or another.

I figure you can achieve a better result - in any direction - by transforming a destructive and negative emotion, into something constructive and positive.

How you do that, is up to you.

So it takes skill to channel something this way, effectively, and with no collateral damage. Either inwardly, outwardly, towards you or towards someone else.

[threebyfate]

Thich Naht Hahn talks about how you must embrace your anger - like a mother embraces a crying baby - because your anger is telling you something. It lights a fire under your ass, figuratively.

 

I, for one, have traveled the rough terrain of a complex and vast emotional landscape. I have been paralyzed by depression, blinded by rage, lifted like a phoenix by joy, dashed on the rocks by disappointment. I think all of us have.

 

But if you have ever been truly paralyzed with depression - to the point where you feel a physical weight on your flesh, one that makes it difficult to even pick yourself bodily up off the ground, you know the value of fiery anger.

 

I've seen and lived with people who did benefit from the motivation that anger provided. They weren't the nicest, easiest people to be around at all, but they were colorful and interesting.

Yes, I did go through a really short depression after D-day and yes, I used anger to kickstart.

 

I still use it, in statements like this:

 

"no one can keep me down but me"

 

And it works, in that there's a truth that's fueled by anger, amongst other emotions.

[threebyfate]

No, I'm not suggesting that.

I already said, you can use it any way you like.

 

But as Ronni_w pointed out, this is applicable to all and every emotion's manifestation. Whatever you do with it, will bring a result of one kind or another.

I figure you can achieve a better result - in any direction - by transforming a destructive and negative emotion, into something constructive and positive.

How you do that, is up to you.

So it takes skill to channel something this way, effectively, and with no collateral damage. Either inwardly, outwardly, towards you or towards someone else.

Straight up, I've yet to meet one person on this globe, who is always skillful with every strong emotion. We're human, we make mistakes and hopefully, we learn from those mistakes.

[TaraMaiden]

Straight up, I've yet to meet one person on this globe, who is always skillful with every strong emotion. We're human, we make mistakes and hopefully, we learn from those mistakes.

 

And THAT is the skill.

 

He is not a fool who makes mistakes.

He is a fool who does not learn from them.

 

Let me just put it this way...

Looking at them in chronological order, the infractions I've received have gotten wider and wider apart, time-line wise.

And the last one I received, was reversed.

 

I'd like to think I'm not as big a fool as I used to be.....

[threebyfate]

And THAT is the skill.

 

He is not a fool who makes mistakes.

He is a fool who does not learn from them.

 

Let me just put it this way...

Looking at them in chronological order, the infractions I've received have gotten wider and wider apart, time-line wise.

And the last one I received, was reversed.

 

I'd like to think I'm not as big a fool as I used to be.....

While that's good for you that your infraction level has been reduced on LS, is it really meaningful in real life? LS isn't a microcosm of real life and the rules, don't reflect real life rules.

 

In real life, everyone has greater control over their lives, so it's best to use whatever tools they have, at their disposal. To waste your time always rerouting anger, can also be an energy sink. Sometimes, you can just divert or funnel it, rather than transform it.

[TaraMaiden]

While that's good for you that your infraction level has been reduced on LS, is it really meaningful in real life? LS isn't a microcosm of real life and the rules, don't reflect real life rules.

I agree with this. But my point in saying this, was to illustrate that this is an indication of a change in my attitude in general. It's a reflection of what has happened as much outside LS as in it.

 

In real life, everyone has greater control over their lives

I disagree, actually.

Life really is so much simpler in this "Black and white" world. People ask questions, others provide answers. if everybody complied with everything on here, there'd be less infidelity, more communication and fewer broken hearts. Real life, in comparison to LS life, is a complete loose cannon.

so it's best to use whatever tools they have, at their disposal.

Like I said.

It's not the tools you use.

It's HOW you use them....

 

To waste your time always rerouting anger, can also be an energy sink.

 

This is inaccurate.

It's like learning to drive a car.

The first time you try doing it, you make a complete hash of it, and believe you'll never be able to drive.

Progressively, your skills improve.

Now, you get into the car and drive from A to B without too much of a glance at your ability - because you know you can.

It may seem like a waste of time.

But it isn't.

Fishing's a waste of time.

Golf is a waste of time.

 

Re-routing - channelling, transforming - Anger, is NEVER a waste of time.

Sometimes, you can just divert or funnel it, rather than transform it.

I think we're sailing dangerously close to semantics here.... 'funnel' it?

What does that mean?

Really, I'm curious. What do you mean by 'funnel'...?

 

And diverting anger might simply mean you point it in a different direction, and end up smacking the wrong person upside the head.

And that's neither fair, nor skilful.

[threebyfate]

I agree with this. But my point in saying this, was to illustrate that this is an indication of a change in my attitude in general. It's a reflection of what has happened as much outside LS as in it.

Okay, now that you've explained it, I understand.

I disagree, actually.

Life really is so much simpler in this "Black and white" world. People ask questions, others provide answers. if everybody complied with everything on here, there'd be less infidelity, more communication and fewer broken hearts. Real life, in comparison to LS life, is a complete loose cannon.

In this, we'll have to agree to disagree. My life is really simple. If someone impacts on it negatively or acts in a dysfunctional manner on a consistent basis, it's really easy for me to cut them out. If I want something bad enough, I go get it.

Like I said.

It's not the tools you use.

It's HOW you use them....

If that's truly your view, then we agree. Anger can be an effective tool, if used properly.

This is inaccurate.

It's like learning to drive a car.

The first time you try doing it, you make a complete hash of it, and believe you'll never be able to drive.

Progressively, your skills improve.

Now, you get into the car and drive from A to B without too much of a glance at your ability - because you know you can.

It may seem like a waste of time.

But it isn't.

Fishing's a waste of time.

Golf is a waste of time.

This is assuming that anger always is like a car accident. Not true.

Re-routing - channelling, transforming - Anger, is NEVER a waste of time.

 

I think we're sailing dangerously close to semantics here.... 'funnel' it?

What does that mean?

Really, I'm curious. What do you mean by 'funnel'...?

 

And diverting anger might simply mean you point it in a different direction, and end up smacking the wrong person upside the head.

And that's neither fair, nor skilful.

You're talking in absolutes again. If you believe as expressed above, that it's how you use a tool, as in anger is a tool, what you're suggesting here is to always transform a hammer into a butterfly.

 

You can funnel anger into focused energy, to accomplish a difficult task. You can divert anger towards fueling a kick start.

 

I suspect you and I are engaged in a debate of semantics, to a degree. I also suspect that what really matters, is that we both agree that we can control our perceptions, hence control our responses.

 

Where we differ, is how we each view powerful emotions like love and anger. IMO, neither is 100% good or bad. It's all in how you use it.