"Thrown under the bus"

[Got it]

I would think so, yes. Dday stands for Discovery Day so yes it is still a discovery for the BS.

[White Flower]

I hope I am not threadjacking my own thread here, but is it considered a Dday if the WS decides to confess the affair to the BS? Whether or not it is still ongoing?

Yes because there is still a discovery.

[White Flower]

But he's still with this small, ignorant, manipulative, ballistic person(your description)? Right? Yeah, that makes alot sense, thats whats mind boggling..

Actually the description is his as I don't know her. And if progress through counseling is any indication he won't be there for long.

[Spark1111]

I think MM makes some valid points....and I believe we all give these MM/MW way too much credit for truth-telling.

 

I also believe Anne1707 adds some perspective, too.

 

And I agree with WF, is is very difficult to understand the mindset that seeks the status quo to point of denying one's own reality.

 

So, if the OW was such a relentless pursuer, she....held a gun to your head to call and text her all day long?

 

She forced you to buy those economy size condoms?:laugh:

 

What a hussy!

 

But I do believe the truth does lie somewhere in the middle! My WS did not say a bad word about his OW to me...that would really be shooting himself in the foot, dontcha think? There would be no way to explain his affair then, not rationally, not to me.

 

And he swears he never said a bad word about me to her.

 

But I do believe he ALLOWED her to think I was the "bad guy" in the relationship in some manner, otherwise, why would she have had an affair with him in the first place? He may have never directly voiced a negative opinion about me, but I know he never CORRECTED her as she was forming them.

 

Why would he? If he needed sympathy, empathy and validation, he certainly would not allow her to think I was some wonderful lady...It would have been at total cross-purposes with his continuing in the affair!

 

So DDAy hits, I throw him out and he now sits at her kitchen table pining away for his spouse, home, family.

 

That poor woman! She must have been scratching her head that day.

 

THAT TO ME, epitomizes being thrown under the bus!

[White Flower]

I think MM makes some valid points....and I believe we all give these MM/MW way too much credit for truth-telling.

 

I also believe Anne1707 adds some perspective, too.

 

And I agree with WF, it is very difficult to understand the mindset that seeks the status quo to point of denying one's own reality.

 

So, if the OW was such a relentless pursuer, she....held a gun to your head to call and text her all day long?

 

She forced you to buy those economy size condoms?:laugh:

 

What a hussy!

 

But I do believe the truth does lie somewhere in the middle! My WS did not say a bad word about his OW to me...that would really be shooting himself in the foot, dontcha think? There would be no way to explain his affair then, not rationally, not to me.

 

And he swears he never said a bad word about me to her.

 

But I do believe he ALLOWED her to think I was the "bad guy" in the relationship in some manner, otherwise, why would she have had an affair with him in the first place? He may have never directly voiced a negative opinion about me, but I know he never CORRECTED her as she was forming them.

 

Why would he? If he needed sympathy, empathy and validation, he certainly would not allow her to think I was some wonderful lady...It would have been at total cross-purposes with his continuing in the affair!

 

So DDAy hits, I throw him out and he now sits at her kitchen table pining away for his spouse, home, family.

 

That poor woman! She must have been scratching her head that day.

 

THAT TO ME, epitomizes being thrown under the bus!

All excellent points once again Spark.

 

I bolded the part, 'why would she have had an affair with him in the first place?' because, again, I think it depends on the personality of the OW. My MM has actually corrected me (and I him) about his W. When he is moody and wants to use the B word I don't let him then he'll say yeah I guess you're right, she is allowed to have a bad day once in a while. As for me I may have suggested that she was being controlling one day, for example, and he'll defend her by saying this particular behavior is something her family has demonstrated their entire lives and it is all she knows and believes to be a standard of living.

 

I don't need to believe my MM's W is a bad person to be in the A with him. I just need to know that we are right together, we work, and we are in love. It sure helps to know that they are not right together, don't work, and aren't in love but many OW can overlook that however difficult it is for them.

 

I can see your H's OW sitting there and scratching her head on Dday. I felt stumped, too, because of what I see and know to be the truth yet he hedged that day. I wish all WS could be on some reality TV show so we could see regularly the excuses they use as to why they threw the OW under the bus, and then listen to their counselors explain what the MM can't even figure out himself after counseling with them.

[ADF]

For what it's worth, my opinion is this: 99% of time, the OW really doesn't mean anything to the MM. She almost ends up "thrown under the bus." The overwhelming majority of MM who have affairs end up droppoing the OW and going back to their wives. Not because they necessarily like the wife better, but because going back to her is just easier.

[Spark1111]

All excellent points once again Spark.

 

I bolded the part, 'why would she have had an affair with him in the first place?' because, again, I think it depends on the personality of the OW. My MM has actually corrected me (and I him) about his W. When he is moody and wants to use the B word I don't let him then he'll say yeah I guess you're right, she is allowed to have a bad day once in a while. As for me I may have suggested that she was being controlling one day, for example, and he'll defend her by saying this particular behavior is something her family has demonstrated their entire lives and it is all she knows and believes to be a standard of living.

 

I don't need to believe my MM's W is a bad person to be in the A with him. I just need to know that we are right together, we work, and we are in love. It sure helps to know that they are not right together, don't work, and aren't in love but many OW can overlook that however difficult it is for them.

 

I can see your H's OW sitting there and scratching her head on Dday. I felt stumped, too, because of what I see and know to be the truth yet he hedged that day. I wish all WS could be on some reality TV show so we could see regularly the excuses they use as to why they threw the OW under the bus, and then listen to their counselors explain what the MM can't even figure out himself after counseling with them.

 

But I guess that is the part that hurts me the most; having been blamed for every miserable, moody emotion he was experiencing at that time PROJECTED onto me!

 

How unfair, truly. While I own my part in our disconnect, I should not have been blamed, or be labelled the cause or reason he sought someone else before working on the marriage as I had begged, begged him to. That just bespeaks confusion and conflict avoidance on his part.

 

In IC, the counselor has apparently responded over and over again...."So, that was Spark's fault?" Oh, you blame Spark for that too?" as a way to have my fWS OWN the choices HE HAS MADE in the past and in the future.

 

I have read that the only appropriate response, when someone starts to complain of their marriage or spouse is to respond with, "I know the name of a good counselor, in case you are interested," and end the conversation.

Edited February 27, 2010 by Spark1111
typos

[foreal]

My MM and I discussed "the OW being thrown under the bus" yesterday. We seemed to have different opinions of what this expression means. I would appreciate if someone could explain to me whether it means:

 

1) ending the relationship with the OW on Dday

 

2) ending the relationship with the OW on Dday whilst denying that she ever really meant something, denying that you ever really loved her

 

I think it is #2.

 

But I'm thankful I've never had this discussion with the person I was in love with...how sad that must be.

 

foreal

[silverplanets]

My MM and I discussed "the OW being thrown under the bus" yesterday. We seemed to have different opinions of what this expression means. I would appreciate if someone could explain to me whether it means:

 

1) ending the relationship with the OW on Dday

 

2) ending the relationship with the OW on Dday whilst denying that she ever really meant something, denying that you ever really loved her

 

Sorry, a bit late to this one but I think it's a good question. The crux of the question seems to be is the MM/MW actually throwing the OW/OM under the bus when they don't explicity deny the affair on Dday.

 

Perhaps we might start by asking "what is the bus?". My own view is that the bus is LOADED with every single promise that the MP has given to the AP during the A ...

 

If the MP has promised nothing then there is no bus ...so the question is void.

 

If, on the other hand they have promised the earth - talked down their marriage, claimed to be divorcing, claimed their partner is ok with it, talked with you about getting married, promised they are leaving, discussed children etc etc etc (ad nauseum) WHILST TELLING THEIR WIFE/HUSBAND NOTHING then the bus is LOADED to the MAX

 

In this latter scenario, on DDay there is that one defining moment when the MP sees this bus bearing down on THEM loaded with the CONSEQUENCES of what they've been doing.

 

What they do AT THIS POINT, in my view is the defining part ...

 

If they STAND UP and admit to their MP the affair and stand resolute and unashamed about leaving the marriage then effectively they take the consequences - ie the "bus" hits them (and also, in a way,the BS)

 

If they don't do the above however and instead make the move back to the marriage then they are avoiding the CONSEQUENCES of their promises and in this case that loaded bus misses them and ploughs straight into the AP who has believed in the MP.

 

Whether they deny or not the A is, in my view, irrelevant .. the key thing is whether they stand up and let the bus hit them or whether they let it hit the AP instead.

 

On Dday the bus HAS to hit someone ... whether the MP deliberately throws the AP under the bus or just conveniently steps out of the way at the last second so that it ploughs into the AP is in my view irrelevant ... the AP is under that bus and the MP is not.

 

And here's the thing about that bus ... as I said if the MP was fully honest about their situation then there is NO bus to come at them .. that bus only exists if the MP lied, exagerated, made false promises etc etc.

 

So, jennie, my personal answer to the question would be that if the bus exists then it doesn't matter either way .. if the MM is not taking the hit for their actions then they are putting you in front of that bus they created.

 

Hope this makes sense/adds value

 

Chris

[jennie-jennie]

I think it is #2.

 

But I'm thankful I've never had this discussion with the person I was in love with...how sad that must be.

 

foreal

 

No, not sad, kind of interesting really. We are both very much into discussing our relationship.

 

He has supported me through difficult phases in my life (getting over an abusive relationship and going through a very harsh and long medical treatment), now I am supporting him in what he needs to deal with, ie his split self and hopefully therapy.

[jennie-jennie]

And here's the thing about that bus ... as I said if the MP was fully honest about their situation then there is NO bus to come at them .. that bus only exists if the MP lied, exagerated, made false promises etc etc.

 

Thanks, Chris, I like your explanation. Then there exists no bus in my case because my MM has not promised me anything and he has been (as far as I can tell) fully honest about his situation with me.

[anne1707]

Thanks, Chris, I like your explanation. Then there exists no bus in my case because my MM has not promised me anything and he has been (as far as I can tell) fully honest about his situation with me.

 

 

JJ

 

Hasn't your MM promised to tell his wife about you later this year? If he does not, would you consider that as throwing you under the bus (even if he wants the affair to continue)? Just a thought that by delaying the end of the affair (regardless of whether the WS chooses the spouse of the OW/OM), is that throwing under the bus in slow motion so to speak?

[jennie-jennie]

I don't need to believe my MM's W is a bad person to be in the A with him. I just need to know that we are right together, we work, and we are in love.

 

Spark, I want to point out that I agree with White Flower on the above.

 

From what I have gathered from my MM his wife is a good woman, a good mother and wife. She has her minor flaws of course, but don't we all.

 

For me it is enough that my MM is in love with me. I don't need to believe anything bad about his wife to have a relationship with him. I am rather inclined to believe the opposite, why would he have a terrible wife when he is a good man?

 

Once again, I am having a relationship with a man who happens to be married. Whether his wife is good or bad has no bearing on my feelings for him. But I think the fact that she is a good woman makes it easier for me to understand why he does stay married.

[silverplanets]

Whoops .. one more thing ..

 

A MP might say that by staying in their MM at the dday point they are standing in front of the bus and taking the consequences.

 

I would disagree 100%.

 

If they stay they are simply facing up to problems (call it a bus or whatever) that existed BEFORE the A ... otherwise there would have been no A, period. Those problems could be them, their marriage etc etc.

 

These problems are private and have NO NEED to affect other people - so again no need for any bus to hit a third party.

 

When the MP has an A and MISREPRESENTS their home situation or intentions then they are THEN creating the bus.

 

Obvioulsy in cases where an OW/OM pursues a married person then there is no bus created, but I don't think we are talking about that here. The bus we are talking about is only in existence because on DDay the MP does not live up to what they've promised the AP .. which means, if they did promise somehthing, then they lied .. either intentionally or through a lack of thought about the consequences of what they were promising.

 

...

 

I had never heard the phrase under a bus and to me, years ago, explaining it to someone I just used the concept of an flying. My MP convinced me that they were leaving their H, we made plans, I changed houses, we talked about marriage, discussed children etc etc etc

 

In effect we started a journey together, agreed a destination etc etc and I started to move away from my friends etc. In effect we got on plane called "Chris and XXXXXX airlines", with only us two on board and set out on our own journey. The higher we flew the closer we got to the destination of us being together.

 

The effect of DDay for me was that she effectively turned to me and said "whoops, change of mind" ... she then jumped out of the plane ... BUT she had a parachute ... her OK marriage !!! ... and a new pregnancy !!!

 

Me .. I'd brought no parachute so I just plummeted into the ground - and that's exactly what it felt like.

 

Did it matter if she'd denied me or not ... no, not at all ... what mattered was she bailed with a parachute leaving me without one ....

 

................

 

Anyway, this is all just in response to the OP ....

 

I'm glad it happened now .. it is one of many things that led me to being who I am today ... It was a bloody painful landing though !!!

 

be safe

Chris

[silverplanets]

Thanks, Chris, I like your explanation. Then there exists no bus in my case because my MM has not promised me anything and he has been (as far as I can tell) fully honest about his situation with me.

 

Thanks Jennie - it would be my heart felt wish for you that there is indeed no bus

[jennie-jennie]

JJ

 

Hasn't your MM promised to tell his wife about you later this year? If he does not, would you consider that as throwing you under the bus (even if he wants the affair to continue)? Just a thought that by delaying the end of the affair (regardless of whether the WS chooses the spouse of the OW/OM), is that throwing under the bus in slow motion so to speak?

 

I have to think about this one. Has he promised to tell his wife about me?

 

He has been very careful throughout our relationship not to make promises to me, not to express any emotions that he can not fully stand behind. What he has expressed now is a decision and a desire to at some point disclose the affair to his wife, but not when.

 

I questioned him the other day if he has thought of what the consequences of a disclosure would be. And it seemed pretty much he had not.

 

To give you a sense of the openness and freedom of our discussions, we were discussing this during a 20 minute drive of his between two jobs. That is how unloaded it is for us. Like solving an issue together, what is the best approach.

 

Disclosing the affair to the BS might of course force things to happen, but are we ready for that, MM and I? We are discussing that. What is outside of our control however, is if his wife would initiate a discussion of why there is no intimacy and no sex in their marriage any longer. I believe such a discussion would lead to my MM disclosing the affair.

 

About delaying the end of the affair, I am not sure anything can delay it except not going to therapy. Which my procrastinator of a MM of course is postponing.

 

My original thoughts about being thrown under the bus is when you are in a deep intimate relationship together and then the moment the relationship comes out in the light, it ends. ??? Is that not throwing you to the wolves to save the marriage? Was that all the relationship was, something that melted away in the sun?

Edited February 27, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[jennie-jennie]

To me love can not be promised. I remember when I was young and was in my first long term relationship, I felt like my love to my SO would last forever. Was this a lie? I left him after five years. No, it was how I felt in the moment. It was true in the moment, but it was not true later on.

 

LOVE CAN NOT BE PROMISED.

 

Therefore whatever my MM would say, I would take it as his intent at the moment he said it, not a promise to hold him by.

 

But then that is how I look at marriage vows as well - which is why I have no problem having a relationship with a married man.

 

LOVE CAN NOT BE PROMISED.

[anne1707]

I have to think about this one. Has he promised to tell his wife about me?

 

I thought he had - maybe I am mistaken. But didn't you recently state that he had said he would tell his wife in the Autumn after you and he had spent some time together in the Summer and he would then see what the consequences of that are.

 

 

I questioned him the other day if he has thought of what the consequences of a disclosure would be. And it seemed pretty much he had not.

 

Sounds to me like he is burying his head in the sand and does not want to face the reality of what he has done. He knows that people he cares about (his wife, his family AND you) will be hurt by his actions.

 

 

Disclosing the affair to the BS might of course force things to happen, but are we ready for that, MM and I?

 

I think you are more ready than he is.

 

 

What is outside of our control however, is if his wife would initiate a discussion of why there is no intimacy and no sex in their marriage any longer. I believe such a discussion would lead to my MM disclosing the affair.

 

Tough call. He may see that as the chance to tell all or he may surprise you (and himself) and lie.

 

 

About delaying the end of the affair, I am not sure anything can delay it except not going to therapy. Which my procrastinator of a MM of course is postponing.

 

Hence the end is being delayed by his procrastination (I did this with the ex-OM)

 

 

My original thoughts about being thrown under the bus is when you are in a deep intimate relationship together and then the moment the relationship comes out in the light, it ends. ??? Is that not throwing you to the wolves to save the marriage? Was that all the relationship was something that melted away in the sun?

 

Oh definitely. It was just that something made me think about how the WS may use delay tactics. They may say "I'll tell him/her after Christmas" to then be replaced to "after his/her birthday" to "after the child has started college" - you get my drift. The WS just delays the inevitable end because they cannot face the consequence of the affair. The promises to tell the BS they make to the OW/OM are being repeatedly broken and it just seemed to me that that is pretty close to being thrown under the bus.

[awkward]

The bus is the pain and the driver is the liar who runs over the people he/she 'loves' in order to spare themselves/get what they want. They don't want tire marks all over their own a** because it's painful.

 

If the WS throws the BS under the bus to the AP, then the same will probably happen to the AP on D-day. If you feel the tires driving over you then you've been thrown under the bus. What might cause great pain to one AP might be readily accepted/expected by another. It depends on the expectations of the relationship.

[jennie-jennie]

If they stay they are simply facing up to problems (call it a bus or whatever) that existed BEFORE the A ... otherwise there would have been no A, period. Those problems could be them, their marriage etc etc.

 

Very thought-provoking and interesting statement. True in my opinon.

 

Your concept of flying - very painful experience, kind of like my "being thrown to the wolves".

[moaningmyrtle]

I have to think about this one. Has he promised to tell his wife about me?

 

He has been very careful throughout our relationship not to make promises to me, not to express any emotions that he can not fully stand behind. What he has expressed now is a decision and a desire to at some point disclose the affair to his wife, but not when.

 

I questioned him the other day if he has thought of what the consequences of a disclosure would be. And it seemed pretty much he had not.

 

To give you a sense of the openness and freedom of our discussions, we were discussing this during a 20 minute drive of his between two jobs. That is how unloaded it is for us. Like solving an issue together, what is the best approach.

 

Disclosing the affair to the BS might of course force things to happen, but are we ready for that, MM and I? We are discussing that. What is outside of our control however, is if his wife would initiate a discussion of why there is no intimacy and no sex in their marriage any longer. I believe such a discussion would lead to my MM disclosing the affair.

 

About delaying the end of the affair, I am not sure anything can delay it except not going to therapy. Which my procrastinator of a MM of course is postponing.

 

My original thoughts about being thrown under the bus is when you are in a deep intimate relationship together and then the moment the relationship comes out in the light, it ends. ??? Is that not throwing you to the wolves to save the marriage? Was that all the relationship was, something that melted away in the sun?

 

Jennie,

 

A man that you are in a relationship with that has made no promises about a future together? Where is the commitment then, people do not have to be so careful about true commitment? There ought to be red flags for you everywhere.

 

I have always beleived that true affairs (ie those that at least one AP never really intended to be anything more than an A) do not survive the light of day, or to use another analogy, do not survive the torch being shined in dark corners.

 

Melting away in the sun is another good analogy.

 

Affairs thrive best in complete secrecy from the spouse. It seems from your description that yours has. Without a d-day or your MM leaving his wife for you, you will never know for sure.

 

Many years ago I was involved in a secret and "wrong" relationship. He wasn't married and nor was I, but the relationship was strongly frowned on for other reasons (but not illegal). When it came to the crunch I felt he bailed out on me, but in many ways I let him down too. Despite loving each other I think we both decided separately that we could not cope with all the drama, exposure would bring.

[jennie-jennie]

Anne, how do you manage to divide a quote like that? I will use bold below because I do not know how to.

 

I thought he had - maybe I am mistaken. But didn't you recently state that he had said he would tell his wife in the Autumn after you and he had spent some time together in the Summer and he would then see what the consequences of that are.

 

We have had no definite plans, except not to tell before we get to spend the time together. We have discussed a timeline, not an ultimatum, but a timeline to work against, of our fifth anniversary, but nothing is definite, it is under constant discussion. We have to be careful with the timing of a disclosure since we are in a long distance relationship. A premature disclosure might stop our chances of seeing each other - this is what I felt he had not realized.

 

 

Sounds to me like he is burying his head in the sand and does not want to face the reality of what he has done. He knows that people he cares about (his wife, his family AND you) will be hurt by his actions.

 

 

 

 

I think you are more ready than he is.

 

True, I have never had any need of secrecy. My mind is made up long ago. He is the one who still needs the secrecy.

 

 

 

Tough call. He may see that as the chance to tell all or he may surprise you (and himself) and lie.

 

Lie by omission in that case.

 

 

Hence the end is being delayed by his procrastination (I did this with the ex-OM)

 

True.

 

 

Oh definitely. It was just that something made me think about how the WS may use delay tactics. They may say "I'll tell him/her after Christmas" to then be replaced to "after his/her birthday" to "after the child has started college" - you get my drift. The WS just delays the inevitable end because they cannot face the consequence of the affair. The promises to tell the BS they make to the OW/OM are being repeatedly broken and it just seemed to me that that is pretty close to being thrown under the bus.

 

Agreed.

Edited February 28, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[awkward]

We have had no definite plans, except not to tell before we get to spend the time together. We have discussed a timeline, not an ultimatum, but a timeline to work against, of our fifth anniversary, but nothing is definite, it is under constant discussion. We have to be careful with the timing of a disclosure since we are in a long distance relationship. A premature disclosure might stop our chances of seeing each other - this is what I felt he had not realized.

 

Is the ultimate goal for the BS to accept an open marriage?

[jennie-jennie]

Affairs thrive best in complete secrecy from the spouse. It seems from your description that yours has. Without a d-day or your MM leaving his wife for you, you will never know for sure.

 

I am very well aware of this, more so, I believe, than my MM.

[jennie-jennie]

If you feel the tires driving over you then you've been thrown under the bus. What might cause great pain to one AP might be readily accepted/expected by another. It depends on the expectations of the relationship.

 

I like this train of thought.