Gunny376 Posted March 19, 2010 Posted March 19, 2010 Integrity and keeping my honesty and reputation clean? I won't lie! That doesn't mean I will dilvuge the truth ~ I will simply refuse to tell what the truth is. ~ in that I cannot tell you what it is? That in itself is lie! There is a such thing as deception of the truth ~ that is by not telling the truth? Its a lie!
Steadfast Posted March 19, 2010 Posted March 19, 2010 I'll agree with the others who say trust is reserved for those who earn it. Are some people more trustworthy than others? Certainly. But the act of being truthful is a skill developed like any other. But, even the most honest of people know things about themselves that they'd like to keep hidden. When pushed, provoked or even panicked, anyone can lie. Everyone has. And that's basically the point Lisa. Seems to me you're looking for perfection in an imperfect world. Best case I would think, is the person who knows they are capable of doing wrong but chooses being truthful and deserving. In the end, it all boils down to the person's desire. Do they want to be honest? Do they want to be trusted? Desire comes first, then the action.
Author LisaUk Posted March 19, 2010 Author Posted March 19, 2010 I'm not looking for perfection, but I do think that I should be afforded the respect of not being lied to by my spouse, how else can a relationship work and thrive without honesty? Re the friend that lied to me, I probably overreacted given the reason they lied, I am very sensitive to being lied to b/c of what my ex did and I probably allowed that to influence how I felt when this friend lied to me.
aimchase Posted March 19, 2010 Posted March 19, 2010 Lisa, I saw a counsellor a few months ago and explained how my ex had a history of sending pictures of herself with black eyes and bruises. She would make claims that bf's/ex's were beating her up, and I know she's done this within the past six months ago. I saw a photo on her computer of her with a supposed black eye, but it was clearly created with make-up. I took it to my solicitor, as I was concerned at the likelihood that as with her previous relationships, she was going to suggest that I had inflicted injuries. The solicitor commented that it was easily identified as a make-up job and paid good reference to her mental state. What was more interesting though, was the reaction from the counsellor. She advised that people do this to gain attention and sympathy, hoping that someone will declare themsef to be the 'knight in shining armour' and protect them. In many cases though, it works the other way. She went on to say that people who fake injuries in that kind of way, are in fact MORE likely to befriend someone who is genuinely violent. That being, because the man (or theoretically, woman) will identify the vulnerability in that person and will look to take advantage of it. This kind of thing can extend to all sorts of issues. You say that you were well known for having trust issues, then, just by chance, someone comes along and betrays your trust. Again, it's identifying your weakness and taking advantage. It's predatory, it's tactical, and it's controlling. Saying that said person lied to protect you, is a cop-out and sets a very difficult platform to build any kind of trust in the future. To say that you lied suggests manipulation and again, an effort once again at control. I guess I feel equally strongly about this after being completely lied to and deceived by my ex for a long period of time. If you can't build a trust, whether that be a friend or a relationship, then I don't see how it can ever progress or flourish.
nobmagnet Posted March 19, 2010 Posted March 19, 2010 Lisa hi!, we all lie. mostly white lies but we all do. Sometimes with illconseved ideas of protecting someone from pain? As you have already admitted you may had over reacted because of the level of lying your ex did to you. I have been pooed on since i was 19. Every man in my life has lied to me. MAN....or....Woman. Some people are bought up to be honest and faithful, If its wrong fix it or end it. No cross over. But i beleive that most people are capable of the unltimate disrespect of an affaire. I am learning to be me first and foremost. My friends are dear and if they betray me..........well its not my fault for choising them it was a weakness in them depending on the lie i will nearly always forgive. We are all different and thank goodness for that! Its about being happy within, understanding the humans around us, our faults, and running through the streets naked. Sounds weird i admit but when you put youself out there you need to be prepared to run naked through the streets because you are indeed putting it all out there. volnerable but not. Confidence to accept it could go wrong but i willing to see if it might be just the best ever. Betrail/pride. That is my question........which hurts the most when someone lies to us? Is it that we trusted them? or is it our pride that we shouldnt have trusted them? Nobby xx
Author LisaUk Posted March 19, 2010 Author Posted March 19, 2010 People say "be yourself", so you be yourself and what happens they leave, they say you aren't good enough, thay say you did this or that, "I'll love you if you are this, I'll be your friend provided you do this, don't say that, say this, be this way, be that way, as long as you are what I want you to be". BUT "always be yourself, then I can blame you when you are yourself" Yeah right. I think I'm done, done with trying, done with it all, don't get involved in the first place then you won't be hurt, I mean really what is the point? No matter what you do it is never GOOD ENOUGH.
BB07 Posted March 19, 2010 Posted March 19, 2010 It has to be good enough for you Lisa.........not anyone else, just you.
trippi1432 Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 Honestly Lisa...what is by definition "good enough"? There is no such thing as perfection....that is an illusion..in the end...it is one man (with all his flaws) and one woman (with all her flaws), both striving to make it in this world and complement each others strengths. Some people are meant to be together.....some people are meant to be alone......which one would you choose?
trippi1432 Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 People say "be yourself", so you be yourself and what happens they leave, they say you aren't good enough, thay say you did this or that, "I'll love you if you are this, I'll be your friend provided you do this, don't say that, say this, be this way, be that way, as long as you are what I want you to be". BUT "always be yourself, then I can blame you when you are yourself" Yeah right. I think I'm done, done with trying, done with it all, don't get involved in the first place then you won't be hurt, I mean really what is the point? No matter what you do it is never GOOD ENOUGH. Lisa, Do not fall into the trap that you are not good enough....going thru this myself at the same time only affirms that WE ARE good enough.....maybe the other side needs to open their eyes......
Steadfast Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 I think I'm done, done with trying, done with it all, don't get involved in the first place then you won't be hurt, I mean really what is the point? No matter what you do it is never GOOD ENOUGH. No risk, no reward. Life sounds pretty dull otherwise. In my experience, the main issue seems to be self-serving entitlement. Somehow (especially in the USA) society has come to believe a certain amount of 'something' due to them, simply because they are breathing. This of course carries over into our personal relationships, creating false love. The man expects a certain 'investment' from the woman, the woman expects the same. So what if you lie, cheat, misdirect or otherwise mislead? The goal is your happiness. That's the way it is on television, in movies and especially in adverts...especially during the holidays. the ideal. True love gives these things freely and expects only love in return. It just may mean a bright, shiny new motorbike Lisa...maybe a new Harley for you, and a new kitchen for him! Whatever, these things are exchanged because we want to please, to enrich the relationship and experience, not because we're keeping score. That's the death of it and it's so rare now. Regardless Lisa, you'll have to come to terms with all of this on your own before you can share you heart again. But, I'm sure that you will. I know your feelings on the subject, but in the long run, we are not designed to be alone. But, if it comes to that I am fully certain that one could find within themselves the strength to give and extend happiness to others. It is a future that many of us face but there are far, far worse things to do.
Gunny376 Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 I don't lie nor cheat nor any of that negative type stuff. Have I? Yes but I don't now and haven't for sometime. Its a matter of Honor, and my own personal code, and keeping my Honor and reputation. I have found that when caught between a rock and hard place, its your Honor and reputation that will save your @zz when nothing else will. Its been proven to me time and time over again. People that know me in real life can say this or that or about me? But they know that when I open my mouth? I'm speaking the truth. Now when confronted with those situations when the truth does not either party well? I can and will evasive, even come right out and say that I'm not at liberty to discuss this or that ~ or that I'm not comfortable discussing the subject with a certain given party? Even come right out and tell them that I'm not going to hold this conversation with them. I've found that if I tend to my business? I'm too busy tending to someone else's. as I have my hands full with my own. I do not only "cheat" I want date someone who's "separated" indeed my personal standard is that you have to have proven personal independence and responsibility for a minimum of one year, preferably two years after the breakup and / or divorce. Lisa its different for everyone, some jump from one relationship right into another. They go where Angles fear to tread! Never learning, never growing, repeating the same old mistakes. Upon examination and hindsight I found that I've been re-bounding from one to another all of my life. Your in a state of "becoming" the person that you were always meant to be, and with that birth from the person that you were, to the person that you now are, to the person that your going to become? There's going to be pain involved. There's no way around it. But now in the process your mind is reprocessing your standards ~ and we all need to do that from time to time. But, now instead of being a 16 year old school girl with a laundry list of what your wanting in a mate/husband/Life-mate? Your defining what you don't want and need in such! And that's a good thing. The next guy that you do let and honor into your life? He's going to have to be good, really good, and he's going to have to have honor, integrity, and a code, because your BS meter is going to go off the Richter Scale after about fifteen minutes of his charm and wit. After that? He'd better have something else to offer. Your still raw from the breakup, still trying to reconcile it all, still trying to make sense of it all? Its only been a year, and I defy anyone that's seriously been in a LTR as long as you were, that was in love to come forward and tell me that a year after the breakup they still didn't feel like they had just crawled out from under a bus? I'm twenty years the other side of where you at? And I still have my "Aha" moments of comprehension and understanding. And there's no doubt in my military mind that I will continue to do so for the rest of my life? You? Like I back in tha' day are being way to hard and demanding of yourself. You've always have been, and you always will be. Your personal best will never be good enough for you. Your driven toward and for excellence. That's not to say that you set the bar to the level ~ but its pretty high up there. There's no doubt that this is in part due to your childhood, and your relationship with your Mother. She's righteous in not allowing indeed not permitting you to wallow in self pity ~ but there's a difference between a kick in the pants and pat on the back ~ and when going through what your going through? You need both! Its the timing that makes the difference? Your a good person, with a lot going for yourself, and a bright future and full life ahead of you. Love will find you again, perhaps even three of four times again? Be fluid, live your life for yourself, and not for others nor through others. Not even your parents, your siblings, your children, your friends. Acknowledge the "humanness of others" and all of their faults, their frailties, the short-comings" Keep examining he nature of each of your relationships for they are dynamic not static and are therefore changing for better or worse. Exercise feelings, for the have meaning only as they are expressed in action. Draw back from tenderness and intimacy. But increase them. They are a powerful source of nourishment in each and everyone of your relationships! Be compassionate! Its is the sure way to understanding and acceptance. See all criticism as positive for it leads to self evaluation. You are always free to reject it, if it us unfair and does not apply, (Which is to say 99% of the X's BS) Finally? You didn't fail him? You didn't fail the "us" that was you and him? HE FAILED YOU! You were all on-board, ready to go, full steam ahead, all sails a flrul and damn the torpedoes! He's the loser that used and abused you, and played you along for eighteen years.
Gunny376 Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 Honestly Lisa...what is by definition "good enough"? There is no such thing as perfection....that is an illusion..in the end...it is one man (with all his flaws) and one woman (with all her flaws), both striving to make it in this world and complement each others strengths. Some people are meant to be together.....some people are meant to be alone......which one would you choose? "One WOMAN LOVING ONE MAN! ONE TIME!" Janis Joplin said it best!
Gunny376 Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 This may be hard for you to comprehend and understand Lisa? But there' going to come a day in your life when your going to run across the X? And your thoughts are going to be one of the following? 1. WITF did I ever see in that SOB? 2. What was I thinking? 3. Thank God and Greyhound (Sorry American? Greyhound = Bus) He's/She Gone? 4. "Thank God For Un-answered prayers!" 5. Your going to look them in the eye, and say, "I use to LOVE you a lot!"
trippi1432 Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 This may be hard for you to comprehend and understand Lisa? But there' going to come a day in your life when your going to run across the X? And your thoughts are going to be one of the following? 1. WITF did I ever see in that SOB? 2. What was I thinking? 3. Thank God and Greyhound (Sorry American? Greyhound = Bus) He's/She Gone? 4. "Thank God For Un-answered prayers!" 5. Your going to look them in the eye, and say, "I use to LOVE you a lot!" :bunny::bunny::bunny: Yeah....I'm agreeing with that whole-heartedly!!
Author LisaUk Posted March 20, 2010 Author Posted March 20, 2010 This may be hard for you to comprehend and understand Lisa? But there' going to come a day in your life when your going to run across the X? And your thoughts are going to be one of the following? 1. WITF did I ever see in that SOB? 2. What was I thinking? 3. Thank God and Greyhound (Sorry American? Greyhound = Bus) He's/She Gone? 4. "Thank God For Un-answered prayers!" 5. Your going to look them in the eye, and say, "I use to LOVE you a lot!" 6. Why was I so stupid that I wasn't good enough to keep you, you were the best thing that ever happened to me and I hate myself for losing you. That is what I will think, because that is the truth.
tojaz Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 People say "be yourself", so you be yourself and what happens they leave, they say you aren't good enough, thay say you did this or that, "I'll love you if you are this, I'll be your friend provided you do this, don't say that, say this, be this way, be that way, as long as you are what I want you to be". BUT "always be yourself, then I can blame you when you are yourself" Yeah right. I think I'm done, done with trying, done with it all, don't get involved in the first place then you won't be hurt, I mean really what is the point? No matter what you do it is never GOOD ENOUGH. Lisa, Love, friendship, and even family is not about being Good Enough! Never has been. Its about being your self living your life and welcoming those that can accept you as you are. Love and care for you as you are! Embracing and celebrating the good parts and accepting and working within the bad (as in what is bad for THEM!). My ex had a lot of great qualities, that I loved and cherished, and there were a few that i could have done with out to be honest, and I'm sure the same went for me. The difference was, I honored her right to be an individual. To want the things she wanted in her life, even if they strayed from my own. Of course we scuffled now and then, but I always allowed her to be her. That was what i was in love with. Her spirit, her individuality. Even if it wasn't always in my favor. I ribbed her about some of those things, but I would never take them away from her because they were part of the whole package and when you choose to care for someone, you take it all, good times and bad. Interesting point, for us our biggest sticking point was her career. I've detailed that on LS plenty so lets just say I often felt second place when it came to her work. I let her know how I felt on occasion and we would have some knock down drag out fights at times. There were times, because she saw it upset me and she loved me, that she had offered to quit her job! In her effort to go along to get along as she put it. Believe me, it was a tempting offer, but I would never have accepted because I knew how much she loved it, saw how excited she was for it and could not deny her that even if it did at times take away from me. That was her, the whole package! The point is Lis, that you have every right to be yourself, but so does everyone else, both their strengths and their flaws Lis. Perfection, the perfect man, the perfect woman is a nice dream, but it dosen't exist. Its those that choose to accept your differences, work with them, and compromise rather then choosing to walk away from them that are truly worthy of your time. TOJAZ
PWSX3 Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 VERY GOOD my friend, that works in many relationships not just marriage.
tojaz Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 Absolutely PW, best way to act in any kind of relationship. Hard advice to follow sometimes, we all have a selfish bone
Gunny376 Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 Lisa, Love, friendship, and even family is not about being Good Enough! Never has been. Its about being your self living your life and welcoming those that can accept you as you are. Love and care for you as you are! Embracing and celebrating the good parts and accepting and working within the bad (as in what is bad for THEM!). My ex had a lot of great qualities, that I loved and cherished, and there were a few that i could have done with out to be honest, and I'm sure the same went for me. The difference was, I honored her right to be an individual. To want the things she wanted in her life, even if they strayed from my own. Of course we scuffled now and then, but I always allowed her to be her. That was what i was in love with. Her spirit, her individuality. Even if it wasn't always in my favor. I ribbed her about some of those things, but I would never take them away from her because they were part of the whole package and when you choose to care for someone, you take it all, good times and bad. Interesting point, for us our biggest sticking point was her career. I've detailed that on LS plenty so lets just say I often felt second place when it came to her work. I let her know how I felt on occasion and we would have some knock down drag out fights at times. There were times, because she saw it upset me and she loved me, that she had offered to quit her job! In her effort to go along to get along as she put it. Believe me, it was a tempting offer, but I would never have accepted because I knew how much she loved it, saw how excited she was for it and could not deny her that even if it did at times take away from me. That was her, the whole package! The point is Lis, that you have every right to be yourself, but so does everyone else, both their strengths and their flaws Lis. Perfection, the perfect man, the perfect woman is a nice dream, but it dosen't exist. Its those that choose to accept your differences, work with them, and compromise rather then choosing to walk away from them that are truly worthy of your time. TOJAZ A warrior, poet and wise and aged philosopher before his time ~ and doesn't know it are you!
tojaz Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 A warrior, poet and wise and aged philosopher before his time ~ and doesn't know it are you! Thanks Guns, a real compliment considering the source. Sadly no though, just another guy learning some things a little too late. TOJAZ
feelingfine Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 Lisa, I just spent the better part of my morning reading your "story". Our timelines are very similar. You can read my little story if you choose. I too am just trying to make sense out of nonsense. My stbx has our children this weekend and it is nearly impossible to find what to do with all the time I have to think/obsess. Some days I hate him and some days I just don't know what went wrong. Just hang in there and know that you did not do anything wrong. It was him. You will get through this...that is what I keep telling myself! Hugs!
Gunny376 Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 You will get through this...that is what I keep telling myself One of the most incredible people I ever meet? Was a multi-skilled, multi-talented "Jack of All Trades And Master of all of them" layman with very little formal education from West Virgina. Tom could do and knew about just about anything. He could do carpentry, plumbing, electrical, re-build a car engine or transmission, drive anything with a steering wheel. He fathered seven children, dealt with lawyers, accountants, the IRS, nursed a dying wife through cancer. He taught me something that I will never forget. And these words should be in every home. " NO MATTER WHAT? IT WILL BE OK! COME HELL, HIGH WATER OR DAMNATION? IT WILL BE OK!" And said it with such conviction of voice? That you knew it was true. We've really only two things to worry about? And that's if we're healthy or sick? If we're healthy? We've nothing to worry about! But if we're sick? We've still only two things to worry about? Whether we're going to live or die? If we live? We've nothing to worry about! But if we die? We've still only just two things to worry about? Whether we're going to go to Heaven or Hell? If we go to Heaven after we die? We've nothing to worry about! And if we go to Hell? Hell it won't matter because we'll be so busy saying Hello to all of our friends and family we won't care!
Author LisaUk Posted March 20, 2010 Author Posted March 20, 2010 Thanks for the replies. I don't know where this idea that I am expecting perfection has come from? My ex was far from perfect and I accepted his flaws, all of them, even his lying. With hindsight I was wrong to allow him to cross my boudaries though, that isn't about perfection its about self respect for what you will and will not allow others to do to you. Regardless of all that, which I would really like to drop now if that's OK b/c it is upsetting for me to keep going over, I cannot see how I will ever feel any different about losing him. I never wanted him to go in the first place, I can't convince myself that I am better off without him b/c I'm not. I miss him so much it hurts to breathe sometimes and I am back to waking every morning crying. I don't want to go through life without him and some days I think there is no point to being alive any more. I'm not saying I am suicidal or that I am going to act upon my feelings, but I just don't see me being happy ever again. I think of how my life is streching ahead of me without him, never seeing him again and I just don't want to go on, there seems to be no point. People say you will meet someone, I don't think that is true. In a whole year since he has been gone, not one man my own age has asked for my number or even shown any interest in me (except one that I met online). H**l I haven't even met one who is not married. Just a load of 20 year old boys looking to get laid. I don't see happiness in my future b/c I won't be with the man I love, nothing is going to change that, no matter if I get my own place, job, new interests etc, non of that will be my life with him and remembering my life with him pales all else into insignificance.
Gunny376 Posted March 21, 2010 Posted March 21, 2010 The idea of perfection came from your being such a self high demanding ~ self expecting individual (of yourself ~ not others) Your just going to have to admit the fact that you're way above average in intelligence, capacity, and skill of the average bloke out on the street. You cannot be something your not. Just that plain and simple. That means you can exclude about 80% or better of the male population in your locality. Your just way too far ahead and way too far educated, informed, read, for them. Which means? Your just too fast for them. Which alludes to the twenty somethings out to just get laid. What a freaking joke they are! I can just imagine! "Been there, done that and back! Already gone back "there" again, and your nothing but a joke!"
Recommended Posts