What's wrong with being childfree??

[Eve]

My experience has always been the Moms are always the ones who bring it up. Very few women without children would say to a mom "why did you have these kids?!" Yet, mothers seem to have no problem bringing it up to women who do not have children. Questions like "why don't you have kids", "when are you going to start a family", "don't you want a baby?", etc. followed by reasons you should have them. As far as you saying "not bother parents", are you saying people without kids should never associate with people who do? Are all of your friends and relatives parents?

 

Well it seems that we have completely different experiences. In my mind there is no smoke without fire, so I find it difficult to believe that people are being harrassed by people who are parents to have children just for the hell of it. In my experience it is more a sizing up process that some friendships can withstand once parenthood comes into the picture.. but many do not. Overall this is because there is a difference between expressing yourself and being scornful and from what I have read here the reasons given for not wanting kids is about scorn more than anything else.

 

No, I get suspicious of anyone who tries to paint themself as being wholey in the right. It doesnt fit. Especially when the reasoning is so hyper critical in the first instance. As a parent I have found it annoying to be compared in such a manner and those past friendships did fizzle out pretty quickly. So yes, now all but a couple of my friends have kids, the rest are just work colleagues or aquaintances. I think this is a pretty common drift that happens unless the friendships are really tight..

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[stillafool]

Well it seems that we have completely different experiences. In my mind there is no smoke without fire, so I find it difficult to believe that people are being harrassed by people who are parents to have children just for the hell of it.

 

I didn't say harrassed and I didn't say these people expected people to have kids just for the hell of it. I said some women with kids do assume that all women should want kids and should stop questioning the reasons why they don't.

 

In my experience it is more a sizing up process that some friendships can withstand once parenthood comes into the picture.. but many do not.

Wow, thanks for enlightening me. I had no idea once a woman becomes a mom she "sizes up" her friends without kids to see if they can still remain friends. Now you see what I mean.

 

 

Overall this is because there is a difference between expressing yourself and being scornful and from what I have read here the reasons given for not wanting kids is about scorn more than anything else.

What I have read is people who don't want kids because they just don't want children. I personally like kids very much and think they are tons of fun. I just never wanted childred of my own and have never regretted my decision. I love my nephews, little cousins, my friends children and think they are all precious. I just never wanted any. I'm lucky that my friends with kids did not 'size me up' and decide they didn't want to be my friend anymore. I agree that some friendships drift apart once people have children because parents have different priorities and don't always have time to just hang out, but I don't think most parents cut off friends just because they don't have kids.

 

No, I get suspicious of anyone who tries to paint themself as being wholey in the right. It doesnt fit. Especially when the reasoning is so hyper critical in the first instance.

Who has painted themself wholey in the right here?

 

As a parent I have found it annoying to be compared in such a manner and those past friendships did fizzle out pretty quickly.

 

What comparison?

 

So yes, now all but a couple of my friends have kids, the rest are just work colleagues or aquaintances. I think this is a pretty common drift that happens unless the friendships are really tight..

 

My question to you is why have any friends who do not have kids since you dislike these people so much?

[sb129]

I have NEVER asked a single/ childfree friend/couple why they don't have kids.

 

I think its the height of rudeness, especially in this day and age where there are many couples who want kids but struggle to have them- they also don't want a person with children quizzing them on why they aren't parents. So I don't ask people, ever. I also don't ask people with one child when they are having the next one for the same reasons.

 

I am also still friends with people who don't have children- I think what Eve meant was that the dynamics of a friendship CAN change once one of you becomes a parent, and its only natural that that will happen.

 

Sometimes its easier to socialise with other parents as they understand that you need to be home earlier as you have to get up early to tend to your children. Or you socialise with the kids, and naturally if you socialise with other families its good for the children as well to have other kids to play with.

 

Not to say that friendships with people who don't have children are any less important- I am still close to my friends without children, however we tend to go out for lunch or coffee now rather than long boozy nights out. And I am lucky in the fact that most of my really close friends all became mothers the same year I did, so our friendships have changed too- but remained strong.

 

The ill feeling in this thread definitely seems to be directed at parents, obviously there are some people out there who have judged the OP and other childfree people on this thread for not having children- but please don't tar us all with the same brush.

 

Your life is your business, enjoy it.

[Ross PK]

I don't have any ill feeling towards parents and I don't think the other people in this topic do either.

 

What I do have ill feeling towards and what I'm sure the others have ill feelings towards are parents who are condecending and nasty to CF people and call them selfish.

 

I mean it's as clear as day that this is what I've been talking about, I don't think anyone has said they hate parents or they want to pick on them, certianly not myself. So I'm not sure where yourself and Eve are getting all this from.

[Eve]

 

 

I didn't say harrassed and I didn't say these people expected people to have kids just for the hell of it. I said some women with kids do assume that all women should want kids and should stop questioning the reasons why they don't.

 

I can understand why a Mum would do this in considering that she could potentially never be a Grandma. As a more general picture, I proposed that the scenarios given (in my mind) are NOT as innocent as portrayed. This was because the hyper critical nature of questioning was beyond any personal reflection.

 

Wow, thanks for enlightening me. I had no idea once a woman becomes a mom she "sizes up" her friends without kids to see if they can still remain friends. Now you see what I mean.

 

The interaction of experience is a valid point.. I prefer this to one sided comments as realistically conversations do have two sides. So, no the perception you had of my comment is valid only to you.

 

What I have read is people who don't want kids because they just don't want children. I personally like kids very much and think they are tons of fun. I just never wanted childred of my own and have never regretted my decision. I love my nephews, little cousins, my friends children and think they are all precious. I just never wanted any. I'm lucky that my friends with kids did not 'size me up' and decide they didn't want to be my friend anymore. I agree that some friendships drift apart once people have children because parents have different priorities and don't always have time to just hang out, but I don't think most parents cut off friends just because they don't have kids.

 

Great that you didnt scorn your friends with an idea that somehow you were better than them. This doesnt mean that this does not happen in other situations. I explained my experience only and this drift is not an uncommon factor. The women I have come across without kids are usually quite scathing but dont admit it outrightly, its usually quite covert.

 

Who has painted themself wholey in the right here?

 

Definately there was a sense that it would be offensive to question whether a childless woman could be simply pitching herself into various situations simply by the manner in which she shared her view. In that sense some balance needed to be established. I mean, choosing an audience of parents to talk about how much you hate kids probably is a bit silly.

 

 

What comparison?

 

The comparison of having children.

 

My question to you is why have any friends who do not have kids since you dislike these people so much?

 

Oh stop being so dramatic! I dont care if someone doesnt have kids. I do care if they hate kids and talk in such a manner around me or in anyway that can potentially affect my children. Common sense.

 

So yes, I get that you are saying that people question you about not having kids. I am saying that personally I know better than to just take it at face value that this is just a one way event. That would be a rare thing indeed as people have a history and one way or another the reasons for having children or not having them are encased in deeper stories. Unwanted pregnancies, a hateful mother, broken relationships.. all things that true friends will share and understand.. but for some women this is used as a weapon and they seriously behave as though they are somehow better than a women who has children. For a parent going through a hard time this is not good to be around.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[Eve]

Sorry my attempt at multi quoting didnt work out very well. I have answered the points made by Still a fool..

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[Ross PK]

Eve, not sure if I've got this right, but is that part of the reason for why you've been hostile towards me? Because you think I hate kids?

[sb129]

I

What I do have ill feeling towards and what I'm sure the others have ill feelings towards are parents who are condecending and nasty to CF people and call them selfish.

 

Fair enough. Have parents on this thread specifically done that to you?

 

Just wanted to demonstrate that we aren't all like that.

 

By the same token, there are CF people who are condescending and nasty to people with children.

Thankfully I don't come across many people like that IRL, but they are out there.

 

So both sides have their faults.

[Ross PK]

Fair enough. Have parents on this thread specifically done that to you?

 

Just wanted to demonstrate that we aren't all like that.

 

By the same token, there are CF people who are condescending and nasty to people with children.

Thankfully I don't come across many people like that IRL, but they are out there.

 

So both sides have their faults.

 

Of course I know you're not all like that, sb129.

 

No, no one has done that to me. It's just that when I read/hear about other people's experiences, or read articles in the tabloids critisizing the CF, it makes me angry.

[sb129]

Ross you should know better than to let the tabloids affect you!

[BlackLovely]

1. The OP has been saying this stuff to people with children in real life and not been received well because of her present 'up and down' tone.

This conclusion is incorrect. When people ask if my fiance and I are going to have children, I say no. When they ask why, which they always do, I respond with something to the effect of.." All the things that come with being a mother...I don't want any of it in my life."

 

 

2. The OP has an inability to discern the difference between a rant and what is a manifestation of maybe a deeper question. Many many people do not know the difference. Scroll this board and .. well .. there you are..

Really? I didn't think I had an inability to discern anything. We can all say whatever we feel here.

 

Her being in counselling may assist. My thoughts though at this time are that a combination of the two points I have raised are probably somewhere near the mark. Afterall, why should she she have a child and raise it when she is free? Perfectly normal question... but alas, maybe this was her mothers lament also but with child in tow? Safe, timely separtion from the parent often does not happen well for many conflicting reasons, even when dysfunctionally, it has.. Far off the mark, my friend. I have adequately separated from my mother. I just don't want to repeat any of her mistakes.

I only say this because the issue with the Mum of the OP was raisd by the OP and a child like stance is taken as a defence. How would you feel if I told you that my mother desperately wants me to have child? People talk about not "letting her win" by not having children; it would be much more of a "win" for my mother if I had a baby. There is no need to justify anything you say. We all have our opinions.

 

Once again, your post was very thoughtful and intelligent. I love the cartoon you have posted as your pic!

Take care,

Eve xx

[Tommy's Girl]

I didn't read every single post here, but I just have to say I weigh less now and look better than I did before I had kids. They keep your energy level up! As far as labor pain, a few hours of pain is definitely worth the gift you end up with. I can't remember that pain anymore. I've had stomach viruses that made me more miserable than labor ever did.

[DaisyLeigh]

Sounds like not having children is the perfect choice for you.

 

Oh and by the way,

 

 

 

There is no truth to that statement whatsoever. Women are amazingly elastic "in that certain spot".

 

 

I agree. I have had three kids and my husband is satisfied. None of this "throwing a hotdog down a hallway" nonsense.

[kittykat84]

I'm 26 and still have not an inkling of that cluckiness that everyone keeps telling me will come.

 

Looking at a baby and all the thoughts that follow that are not positive for me. Child rearing feels so against my personality type. I have no desire to continue my line much to the dismay of my parents - particularly my Mum.

I love my folks and we have a great family, but being Eastern European we have quite the tradition of passing on the blood. My Mum simply cannot comprehend why I would not want children, but I tell her she should look to my younger brother instead. He may be younger but he is more the settling type and would make a good father.

 

And despite all the superficial things like the strain pregnancy has on the body and the sleepless nights in the early stages, I just don't want to put my life on hold for that long.

Yes, I know there are arguments against this point also - that you can still do plenty of things with children like travel etc. I see my workmate who is in his early 30s and had his kids young - he's going to Europe and US and everything. But his holidays are family friendly.... I don't want to be loping around Paris with kids in tow or trying to find food that the kiddies will like.

I don't want to wait until my children are adults to do adult things.

Call me selfish...whatever - I don't deny anyone else their lifestyle if they choose to have children. That's their choice. It's just that in my opinion, as a well off white female, why do I need to bring another needy life into this world when we already have too many of those??? I don't need to leave my legacy...I'm comfortable with the idea of death and that being final and having no blood to pass on. The universe goes on.

[Lecturer]

Aww, seems I'm late to the party!

 

I'm 27, male. I now have a 2 year old son whom is absolutely fantastic - truly the coolest thing ever. That said, I fully support the childfree people and their decision. I would NEVER tell someone that they should or need to have children. Some people can't comprehend why others wouldn't want children.. well I can't comprehend THEM.

 

Answering the question "was it right for me to have a child" is nearly impossible. I basically didn't have a choice in the matter.. it was the most important thing in the world to my wife, and I knew that going in. Saying "no" would have meant either the marriage ends or she is eternally miserable. Still, at the time I didn't fully want to, and my reasons WERE valid.

 

First - finances. Our quality of life has diminished significantly. I knew that IF I was going to have a child, I wanted them to be raised by my wife or I.. NOT by a daycare. The result is the complete loss of my wife's income. When my income is used solely for bills/expenses, that means we have ZERO spending/saving money. NONE. That means no vacations, no events, no concerts or shows, no gadgets/toys. That means any large or emergency expenses come out of savings. That means we are exposed to some serious risk/danger should bad things happen (job loss, etc). For 4 years (until child is in school)! This is a SERIOUS sacrifice, which we made. Further I made the mistake one day of doing our projected finances in a mythical world where we didn't have any kids... and the rate at which the mortgage is paid off and we are adventuring around the world in luxury is .. astonishing - and troubling.

 

Second - relationship. I'm not a very jealous guy, and I knew I wouldn't actively be jealous that my wife now has a new thing in her life. But, in a way, I was. In a strange, subconscious way, I was very aware of how much of her I lost. She certainly tries to give me enough of herself, but the thing was - I wasn't ready to give ANY of her up. It isn't a huge problem now, as he is older, not as needy, and I spend just as much energy on him, but early on - when he was very dependent on her and there was that bond - I was totally feeling alone (again, on a subconscious, irrational level). Having him DID put extreme strain on our marriage - extreme. Understand what I'm saying? Having a second child would not be good and I can predict some very bad repercussions should it occur.

 

Third - freedom. There is no level of commitment you can give someone that is as permanent as having a child with them. People think marriage is a big commitment... it is NOTHING. The marriage can be dissolved at any time for whatever reason and you can walk away - going back to life the way it was before marriage. Once you have a child, it is PERMANENT. You are tied to the person you had the child with (as well as the child). Your responsibilities are PERMANENT. Sure, some people's morals allow them to proceed with life as though they had no children, but mine do not. I can no longer leave my wife should I have reason. I can no longer quit my job should I have reason. I can no longer a roam through Europe, live in a tree, or shoot myself in the eye socket - should I have reason. Sure, it is my own moral code that binds me - but having children was the trigger for it to take effect. This loss of freedom/control has been very hard for me.

 

As for the OP's reasons, they are valid IMO. My wife's labour was 27 hours long, natural, with only meds at the start (to let her sleep, due to bad timing when contractions started). There were complications and, while everything turned out fine, things COULD have went very bad. The pain was intense, and the emotional aspects of the event are things I NEVER want to experience again.

 

Now, is she looser? Yes, definitely. Not a huge issue, but it's a fact. Was she able to shed all the weight? Yes, but she is a fitness fanatic - she was 100% pre-birth weight (under 105 lbs) by 6 months after birth. I applaud you, OP, for admitting your limits and knowing you won't be able to handle the pregnancy weight wise. Will it cause a strain on your relationship and finances - most definitely (as I mentioned in my reasoning).

 

To sum up.. having children when you WANT children is great. Be SURE though. My listed issues were certainly known to me before I had kids... These things were no surprise to me. The problem is that I did it anyway. Be thankful you can do what you want without coercion or duress.

 

I can't end this post, however, without saying how awesome my son is. He is the BEST thing in my life. Nothing has ever given me as much joy. Sometimes it is almost TOO much... truly amazing. I've been proud of him since the day he was born, and I look forward to seeing the man that he becomes. Do not assume I resent him one bit, despite all that I have said. THAT is why I can't answer the question easily that I posed at the start of this message.

[kittykat84]

^^^

Fantastic post!!

[Savanna-O]

Good pelvic floor exercises actually made me tighter than before.

 

so I'm told by those who'd know...

 

My daughter is expecting her first child at 26, and she's already a 'big girl' (18 stone. I'm sorry, for my USA friends, but if you want to know what that is in lbs, work it out.... )

She's actually lost weight during her pregnancy.

 

Pain?

you're kidding, right?

 

I can honestly tell you, labour pain is something you actually forget. I can remember my ankle-break pain. I can remember my slipped disc back pain.

can remember my migraines.

Labour pain?

I can't begin to even to describe it, because I don't remember it.

but they do have pain management, you know....

 

Isn't it weird how you forget? I always heard that growing up.. "it's a pain you forget" and I used to think.. "yeah right then" lol but it is, so much so Im having my third and not even worried in the least.. I guess it's natures way..

 

As to the tightness.. yeah.. that can happen lol but it's not that noticable.. although it can change the way it looks. All depends on how vain you are I guess.

 

Having kids certainly isn't for everyone, some woman are more maternal than others.. if your body wants children, you'll know.. with my second, a few months before I was dead set against having another one, then I don't know what happened.. I really wanted a baby and it felt right.. again.. natures way

 

As I'm typing this my baby is gently kicking inside me- theres no better feeling and thats just the start!

Edited May 6, 2010 by Savanna-O