Came home early

[Lauriebell82]

 

To Lauriebell.....perhaps you are heaping your own expectations of what you think a marriage is and maybe your own experiences in life onto Jeff? Not fair, IMO.

 

Isn't that what this site is all about? We all have different points of you which is what advice is all about!

 

I will be the first to admit that sometimes when people have different views then me it upsets me. BUT there are sooo many people on this site and not all of us feel the same way about marriage. Does he want us to tell him to just get a divorce and forget about his wife and throw away the last 20 years? Does that neccessarily help him?

 

Advice sometimes means trying to change one's mind about something. It doesn't always mean agreeing with the person and telling them to do what they already have decided to do.

[Blindsidedagainalive]

She probably has someone on the side.. or wish she had...

 

That is just a ****ing ridiculous and mean thing to post.

Who knows what is going on in Jeff's wifes mind.

Judging from Jeff's "Go **** yourself" response to her, I hardly see Jeff as a wimp, running around the house in an apron.

 

I believe the dynamic of their relationship is complicated as most are.

They have to get to the root of their issues via communication.

ASSUMING THAT HIS WIFE WISHES SHE HAD SOMEONE ON THE SIDE IS UTTERLY STUPID.

 

Many people don't run their lives based on sex Lizzie. His wife could have MANY reasons/issues unrelated to your thoughts.

 

There are MANY other things that motivate / explain peoples behaviors.

[Jeff1962]

Well if Jeff and his wife divorce, there is a Lizzie.

 

Maybe the Lizzie's of the world are the type of woman men really want/need.

 

You could not be farther from the truth than you are right now.

 

Lizzie is Lizzie. She has nothing to do with my problems and to attack her in this manner especially since she did not provoke you is immature.

 

YOU SHARLA DO NOT KNOW WHAT MEN REALLY WANT.

[cuppa]

Isn't that what this site is all about? We all have different points of you which is what advice is all about!

 

I will be the first to admit that sometimes when people have different views then me it upsets me. BUT there are sooo many people on this site and not all of us feel the same way about marriage. Does he want us to tell him to just get a divorce and forget about his wife and throw away the last 20 years? Does that neccessarily help him?

 

Advice sometimes means trying to change one's mind about something. It doesn't always mean agreeing with the person and telling them to do what they already have decided to do.

 

Agree ...people are quick to recommend divorce in this website. Jeff, how long have you worked with this problem. You said 20 years, when did things become worse?

[Lizzie60]

She probably has someone on the side.. or wish she had...

 

That is just a ****ing ridiculous and mean thing to post.

Who knows what is going on in Jeff's wifes mind.

Judging from Jeff's "Go **** yourself" response to her, I hardly see Jeff as a wimp, running around the house in an apron.

 

I believe the dynamic of their relationship is complicated as most are.

They have to get to the root of their issues via communication.

ASSUMING THAT HIS WIFE WISHES SHE HAD SOMEONE ON THE SIDE IS UTTERLY STUPID.

 

Many people don't run their lives based on sex Lizzie. His wife could have MANY reasons/issues unrelated to your thoughts.

 

There are MANY other things that motivate / explain peoples behaviors.

 

I am assuming.. because I only have HIS side of the story.. like EVERYONE ELSE ON LS is assuming when giving him advices...

 

YOU ALSO ARE ASSUMING that you know what is going on in her head.. but sorry.. you don't.. just like all of us..

 

I've been where she is right now... I too didn't want anything sexual with my first ex ... I never cheated.. but I desperately wanted to.. I was fantasizing about other men... so I finally left him..

 

We were like roomates and that was good with me...

[Sharla]

You could not be farther from the truth than you are right now.

 

Lizzie is Lizzie. She has nothing to do with my problems and to attack her in this manner especially since she did not provoke you is immature.

 

YOU SHARLA DO NOT KNOW WHAT MEN REALLY WANT.

 

Well maybe I don't...

 

Though me track record says otherwise.

 

But I'll keep that in mind nonetheless

[whichwayisup]

Well, maybe some well needed time apart will help. Maybe she'll realize being on her own kind of sucks and she'll wake up and realize it takes TWO to make a marriage work.

 

One suggestion, when the timing is right, and when she wants to talk to you, listen. Could be a month from now, or maybe next week - Lay it ALL out on the line for her. Write a letter if need be, sit her down and let her read it, with you beside her.

 

When one person gives up, it's hard to save a marriage and that's what is happening here. Your wife gave up a long time ago, detached and got used to 'life' as roommates, not husband and wife. You have every right to be fed up and reach your ENOUGH phase! Atleast you're talking and being honest with her, even if it has hurt her. Honestly, if my H was to say to me, 'other women are starting to look good to me, not gonna cheat on you, but since no sex is happening here, I'm getting a wandering eye..' THAT would get me off my ass to try to save the marriage and do what is necessary to get things back on track. Sadly, your wife is nowhere near that frame of mind. Don't think she's 'thought' this out, let alone what life is going to be like without you in it. MAYBE separation will help and a light will go off in her head. IF that happens, I hope you're able to give her one last chance to fix things before getting a D.

[Blindsidedagainalive]

am assuming.. because I only have HIS side of the story.. like EVERYONE ELSE ON LS is assuming when giving him advices...

 

YOU ALSO ARE ASSUMING that you know what is going on in her head.. but sorry.. you don't.. just like all of us..

 

WHAT? CAN YOU READ?

 

I did not assume anything...I said ....

 

ASSUMING THAT HIS WIFE WISHES SHE HAD SOMEONE ON THE SIDE IS UTTERLY STUPID. Many people don't run their lives based on sex Lizzie. His wife could have MANY reasons/issues unrelated to your thoughts.

 

There are MANY other things that motivate / explain peoples behaviors.

 

I did NOT say that her issues are NOT what you infer. I said that its DUMB to ASSUME that her thoughts are equivalent to yours.

 

Lizzie......Your posting history reflects sexual preoccupation....so of course you think that is the reason.

[Angel1111]

...people are quick to recommend divorce in this website.

 

That's because most of the relationship issues posted here are very extreme problems.

[Sharla]

Lizzie is Lizzie. She has nothing to do with my problems and to attack her in this manner especially since she did not provoke you is immature.

 

Oh and fyi, this is utter horse poo. Her posts DO provoke me, because she routinely engages in sexual relationships with men who are taken and has no remorse for her actions. So no, it's not immature, it is MY right.

[Stung]

Laurie, I think you're coming in really late on Jeff's problem. He has discussed this numerous times, and has attempted to fix it for a long time now. If you're just seeing this post, I can understand what you're saying. But he has knocked himself out to get to the bottom of this problem. There seems to be no solution here except to walk away, and that's why he snapped. You can beat your head against a brick wall only so many times. People like his wife can waste years of your life before know it.

 

Am I missing something? I have not read all of Jeff's threads, granted, but I did read one from just one month ago and IIRC he admitted that he and his wife have never tried counseling, which several people were advising him to try.

 

Just my opinion, but if the problems are intimacy and communication but you haven't even tried seeking professional help, you're not exactly knocking yourself out, and there is still a potential solution other than walking away.

 

He's already been with his wife for TWENTY years, have they all been wasted? He says he loves her and she is his best friend, so I would guess not. Isn't that worth swallowing a little pride and spending a little more money and time on to try to salvage, twenty years with your best friend whom you love? I am not up on what he has done so far, but if he gives counseling a real fair shake (it does take a lot of time, effort, introspection, and money) and it doesn't work, well, THEN perhaps he has knocked himself out and tried everything.

 

It's up to you, Jeff, and you and your wife are obviously angry right now. Perhaps her moving out in a trial separation is a good thing. But why don't you try counseling, perhaps even both MC and IC? Is the relationship not really worth it to you anymore?

[Lizzie60]

Oh and fyi, this is utter horse poo. Her posts DO provoke me, because she routinely engages in sexual relationships with men who are taken and has no remorse for her actions. So no, it's not immature, it is MY right.

 

Sorry ... but no one has the RIGHT to be rude and ignorant to others on LS... if my posts provoke you.. you can just skip them.. or put me on ignore.. it's that simple..

 

but you got one thing right.. I DO NOT need to apologize for my lifestyle.. it might not work for everybody.. but it works for me..

[Lizzie60]

He's already been with his wife for TWENTY years, have they all been wasted?

 

I was with my ex for 18 years. . and no ALL those years are not wasted IMO...

 

He says he loves her and she is his best friend, so I would guess not. Isn't that worth swallowing a little pride and spending a little more money and time on to try to salvage, twenty years with your best friend whom you love?

 

The only thing is that .. in Jeff's case.. it seems like he's the ONLY one who seems to want to work on the M...

 

I am not up on what he has done so far, but if he gives counseling a real fair shake (it does take a lot of time, effort, introspection, and money) and it doesn't work, well, THEN perhaps he has knocked himself out and tried everything.

 

Methink... counselling, in this case, is a big waste of money... I think they've reached a point of no return.. in my case, all the counselling of the world couldn't bring the love back... (I could be wrong in Jeff's case.. but I doubt it)..

[silktricks]

You did NOT help your marriage by telling her you were thinking about other women but only wanted to be with her. Yeah you were being "honest" but did you honestly think that she would embrace you after telling her something like that? NO!!! How would you feel if she said something like that to you? You could have said that you want to be with only her but are confused by the lack of intamacy and sex. That is basically saying the same thing minus the hurtful thing you said.

 

Haven't read this whole thread - but I absolutely disagree with you here. IMO it is important to make this point to a wife (or husband) who refuses to have sex with you. It's a slap in the face, yes. But it's a slap that needs to be made - a shock if you will. It seems like it even began to work, but then she went back to her old ways.....

[Jeff1962]

I had some severe personal issues after returning home from Afghanistan and Iraq. I'll admit this. It tore me apart. It almost destroyed me. I've worked thru these issues these past 3 years. These issues, I keep to myself other than a counsler at the VA, they belong to me and to me alone. They have no right to be in my wife's head, to screw with her mind, like they do mine.

 

So there you have another window into my life.

 

I do love my wife. I only want her. I am not one who is quick to divorce as someone has suggested. I did choose the wrong way to approach my wife over the confusion concerning our lack of sex life. I'll admit that I could have been more tactful. Thank you for pointing this out to me. I really did not intend to hurt her. I wanted to wake her up.

 

I will however not try to stop her from moving out. If this is what she wants, then so be it. If she comes back to me and has not been with another man, I will consider accepting her back if we BOTH agree to work on matters. If she dates, then she can go and fu*k herself.

[Sharla]

Sorry ... but no one has the RIGHT to be rude and ignorant to others on LS... if my posts provoke you.. you can just skip them.. or put me on ignore.. it's that simple..

 

but you got one thing right.. I DO NOT need to apologize for my lifestyle.. it might not work for everybody.. but it works for me..

 

Same applies to you.

 

Don't take offense to those who comment on it and disagree with it, which it doesn't seem like you do...which is sad. But it works for you, and well, that's all that matters...right?

[Jeff1962]

Oh and fyi, this is utter horse poo. Her posts DO provoke me, because she routinely engages in sexual relationships with men who are taken and has no remorse for her actions. So no, it's not immature, it is MY right.

 

I agree with you on this point. Like I said Lizzie is Lizzie. If I were single, she is not the type of woman I would seek out. No offense.

[Trimmer]

She doesn't accept ownership over the problem because she probably feels you are causing her to feel this way. (not saying she is right!) Have you told her it bothers you that she doesn't admit to being wrong?

 

Just checking here, but ladies, wouldn't this comment pretty much just piss you off?

 

She doesn't admit to being wrong because she doesn't thing she is wrong. So telling her that it bothers you that she doesn't admit to being wrong isn't exactly going to open a loving dialog.

 

To put it another way: when he told her that he because of a lack of sex, he sometimes looks at other women sexually, and then assured her that he would not do anything, we validate her negative reaction to that, which assumes that she's not smart or self-reflective enough to look at the WHOLE meaning of that comment and get the point that the lack of sex is a problem for him.

 

Well, if she's not smart or self-reflective enough to analyze that, then she's certainly not going to respond well to being told that she needs to admit she's wrong.

[Angel1111]

I did choose the wrong way to approach my wife over the confusion concerning our lack of sex life. I'll admit that I could have been more tactful.

 

I don't think you handled that wrong. You were being honest and hoping she would understand just how much it was affecting you. As silktricks pointed out, she needed that wake-up call. Anyone naive enough to think they can hardly ever have sex with their partner and not have that affect their marriage is truly delusional.

[Lauriebell82]

 

I do love my wife. I only want her. I am not one who is quick to divorce as someone has suggested.

 

Okay, but then you said...

 

I will however not try to stop her from moving out. If this is what she wants, then so be it. .

 

So which is it? You only want to be with he and are not quick to divorce but will let her move out? That doesn't make any sense...

 

If she comes back to me and has not been with another man, I will consider accepting her back if we BOTH agree to work on matters. If she dates, then she can go and fu*k herself.

 

This sounds manipulative and like some kind of twisted test of love. If she is moving out it means she doesn't want to be with you. And you also said that you are done trying to work things out and don't think you are compatible. But she isn't allowed to date if she wants to be with you? Again that sounds like mixed messages. It is evident that you are confused. But honestly you have to decide whether you want to work things out or not. It isn't a "well I want to work things out but she can move out and not date other people even though we aren't together."

[carhill]

It is possible, if the M is not recoverable, that counseling could help the divorce be more amicable. This can benefit both parties emotionally and monetarily. I spent some of my retirement savings on MC and found the ROI to be quite satisfying.

 

I can sympathize with you OP. Hope you find a healthy solution.

[Sharla]

Just checking here, but ladies, wouldn't this comment pretty much just piss you off?

 

She doesn't admit to being wrong because she doesn't thing she is wrong. So telling her that it bothers you that she doesn't admit to being wrong isn't exactly going to open a loving dialog.

 

To put it another way: when he told her that he because of a lack of sex, he sometimes looks at other women sexually, and then assured her that he would not do anything, we validate her negative reaction to that, which assumes that she's not smart or self-reflective enough to look at the WHOLE meaning of that comment and get the point that the lack of sex is a problem for him.

 

Well, if she's not smart or self-reflective enough to analyze that, then she's certainly not going to respond well to being told that she needs to admit she's wrong.

 

That is an eye opening post, it really is.

 

But now roles reversed, say you were married, and your wife said to you "I am starting to look at other men sexually because you don't please me sexually and I have needs", "I won't do it, because I love you, but I really want that guy to f*uck me"....What would your response be, how would that make YOU feel?

[Angel1111]

That is an eye opening post, it really is.

 

But now roles reversed, say you were married, and your wife said to you "I am starting to look at other men sexually because you don't please me sexually and I have needs", "I won't do it, because I love you, but I really want that guy to f*uck me"....What would your response be, how would that make YOU feel?

 

I don't think Jeff said it quite that way. But, if my husband said something like this to me, it wouldn't take me long at all to figure out that we either needed to start having more sex, or end the marriage if I wasn't willing to have more sex.

 

This attitude of staying in a marriage despite everything only makes for a marriage of quantity (how many years can we make one another miserable), opposed to a marriage of quality.

[Jeff1962]

Okay, but then you said...

 

 

 

So which is it? You only want to be with he and are not quick to divorce but will let her move out? That doesn't make any sense...

 

 

 

This sounds manipulative and like some kind of twisted test of love. If she is moving out it means she doesn't want to be with you. And you also said that you are done trying to work things out and don't think you are compatible. But she isn't allowed to date if she wants to be with you? Again that sounds like mixed messages. It is evident that you are confused. But honestly you have to decide whether you want to work things out or not. It isn't a "well I want to work things out but she can move out and not date other people even though we aren't together."

 

You are a real piece of work. I am done for now. This does not give me the right to an open season of dating or sex. I am not manipulative in any way, shape or form. This is not how I operate. I have not told my wife that if she dates after moving out there is no chance. These are my feelings period. Like I said, I am done for now. I am going to stand my ground.

[Sharla]

I don't think Jeff said it quite that way. But, if my husband said something like this to me, it wouldn't take me long at all to figure out that we either needed to start having more sex, or end the marriage if I wasn't willing to have more sex.

 

This attitude of staying in a marriage despite everything only makes for a marriage of quantity (how many years can we make one another miserable), opposed to a marriage of quality.

 

Well if you can honestly say that after reading some of his responses, then all the power to you. Some of the posts comes across as a "take it or leave it or go fu*ck yourself" attitude, not sure where that comes from but that type of attitude won't survive in a relationship.