Heroes or villains? Take two

[silktricks]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't your now H lie about his marital status?

And did he not pull the same crap most MM do?

And didn't you get tired of the "crap" and demand a decision? An ulitmatium if you will?

 

I'm sorry Owoman, but your M began as most - with all the "standard stuff".

 

The difference is, as I alluded to above, YOU. Most OW simply don't have it in them...

 

I think you have OWoman confused with someone else. That's not her story at all.

[NoIDidn't]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't your now H lie about his marital status?

And did he not pull the same crap most MM do?

And didn't you get tired of the "crap" and demand a decision? An ulitmatium if you will?

 

I'm sorry Owoman, but your M began as most - with all the "standard stuff".

 

The difference is, as I alluded to above, YOU. Most OW simply don't have it in them...

 

No, that was GEL. OWoman likely approached her now-H herself, since she dated MM almost exclusively. I don't think GEL was in the habit of dating married men and her now-H likely knew he didn't have a chance with her if he didn't lie about it.

[Hazyhead]

I think it is human nature to idealize the people we are in love with...at least to some extent. I know looking at my xAP now that I don't have her on the pedestal I see her differently.

 

I don't have to go to the extreme of making her a villain, but I do see that she is not the superwoman I painted her to be...and the one she always told me she wasn't.

 

Just like we idealize I think we have a tendency to look for the faults in an ex lover. That way we can minimize the loss. We can say to ourselves "eh...they weren't all that anyways." This especially happens when they leave us. We don't want to think that we have lost such a wonderful person.

 

So yeah..I think we make people both villains and hereon...it is how we cope with the drama of relationships.

 

I agree with this fully. During the affair (and still a little now - although it's a bit lower) I had xMM on a pedestal, even though I could see his faults. I knew he was extreeeemely selfish; this was apparent the entire time, but I brushed over it, only wanting to see the wonderful. Now that it's over I don't demonize the BS, I feel so sorry where she's concerned, I villify myself and him. We were weak and both selfish. As far as her faults within the marriage they're not, and never will be, anything to do with me, so I could never villify her in that context.

 

DI, I think you're so right when you say 'I think we make people both villains and hereon'. Human nature - we all have the hero and the villain in us. We see people subjectively, to suit our own needs and desires.

 

No - I can't be friends with exes. I know that they are not evil, but I just can't remain friends.

 

I'm the same. Could never be a 'Thank you. Come again,' person'. I fell back into the xMM a couple of times, but it was because I never left, due to the LC and the subtle hints from him that it wasn't over (which I believe he would still be throwing my way if I wasn't NC). Once the relationship is over, it only prolongs the hurt to try and forge it into another one. Learn from them, carry them inside you and move on.

 

 

And that is what I find sad. The always waiting. They hoping and wanting more. And not getting it. My opinion is he won't..most M don't. They really have no incentive to change. No reason to choose one over the other when he can have BOTH. And time marches on...life passes by (in the romantic sense).

 

I feel sad that I did this exactly - the waiting and hoping and not seeing the wood for the trees. I feel sad that I let myself and I feel sad that it brought me so much pain.

[jwi71]

I think you have OWoman confused with someone else. That's not her story at all.

 

Oh...well, crap.

 

Thanks for the correction NiD...obviously my post to Owoman is completely invalid.

 

(although the premise remains)

 

Sorry Owoman, that's on me...

[jennie-jennie]

You were

 

Affairs are bad. If, for simplicity's sake I'll use OW but OM works as well (hard to always type gender neutral...and I'm a crappy typist), the OW simply wants a physical "connection" I would question her choice in a MM. Why not a single one? Why do harm to others (the BS and family)? Having said that, at least the OW ISN'T wasting her time and life. Since all she wants is a physical connection she gets exactly what she wants. There is no time lost waiting...she isn't waiting at all.

 

We'll ignore how hard it is for most to NOT become emotionally involved once the PA ramps up.

 

However, for you and OW who DO want more...there is considerable loss in an A in terms of TIME. Because you want more, and more he isn't giving, you are losing that time which could be spent finding another (not another MM, another man) who WILL commit from day one. That's the loss. And its unrecoverable.

 

And what happens is these wild swings in attitude. You have, for instance, in a twenty four period posted how "Great it is the pieces you have" and how his wedding ring revolts you. See my point? And I'm not just singling you out...its true of more than just you here.

 

And that is what I find sad. The always waiting. They hoping and wanting more. And not getting it. My opinion is he won't..most M don't. They really have no incentive to change. No reason to choose one over the other when he can have BOTH. And time marches on...life passes by (in the romantic sense).

 

Its not a R, its an A.

You know, you're one of the few whose story I DON'T know. Did you ever post it in a thread? I wasn't aware of your coming out of an abusive R (and into another)

 

And, heartfelt and deepest sympathies for what you survived and endured. You didn't deserve it, you don't deserve it now and will NEVER deserve it.

You deserve to be the ONLY star in some lucky mans life.

 

What Ellin said above is very true, it does not have to be an EMR for you to want more in a relationship. I have always wanted more in every long term relationship I have had.

 

I believe my story is posted in bits and pieces all over the place. Wonder if I should try a quick summary. Sorry for the threadjack, but I will try to keep it short.

 

5 year relationship with a wonderful man who was too young I believe to stay faithful to me.

 

25 year relationship with the father of my children. Also a serial cheater. Sober alcoholic, problems with anger management, gambling addiction etc.

 

MM, highschool sweetheart, came back into my life when I had already told my SO I wanted to find another man. Half a year after our EA turned into a PA I ended my relationship with my SO. My SO knew about MM from the very start.

 

I did not realize how damaged and wounded I was until it showed in my lack of trust and my vulnerability with MM. He felt like he was walking on a minefield, afraid to move. But his consistency, his love, his trustworthiness made me heal.

 

Jwi, I am sorry I do not recognize what you are stating above as remarks of mine, so I cannot comment on them.

 

What I will say is that I do not spend my life waiting. I live my life. I am together with my MM today.

 

I can give you an example. I had to go through a very harsh medical treatment for 18 months. I thought it would be awful and that I would only be waiting for the end, that I would have no life during this time. But although the treatment was difficult, I lived meanwhile. I had my joys and my sorrows, my good days and my bad days, I spent time with family and friends AND made a whole new set of friends who were also going through treatment.

 

I don't wait, I live! That is why I say you should ask yourself: Do I want to be with MM today - not in the future, today? Am I content today to be with him? And the answer for me so far is yes.

[silverplanets]

My personal view?

 

When I was married and had an A, I was a villian to myself - I was not serving my interests in the best way for me

 

When I then took responsibility for my unhappiness in my childless marriage and divorced into an unkown future then I was a hero for myself - I served my core interests in the best way for me without dependancy on another

 

Later when I ended up in a relationship with a MW I was a villian to myself - I was not serving my interests in the best way for me

 

When I took responsibilty and walked away from that situation into an unknown future then I was a hero for myself - I served my core interests in the best way for me without dependancy on another

 

[Hazyhead]

My personal view?

 

When I was married and had an A, I was a villian to myself - I was not serving my interests in the best way for me

 

When I then took responsibility for my unhappiness in my childless marriage and divorced into an unkown future then I was a hero for myself - I served my core interests in the best way for me without dependancy on another

 

Later when I ended up in a relationship with a MW I was a villian to myself - I was not serving my interests in the best way for me

 

When I took responsibilty and walked away from that situation into an unknown future then I was a hero for myself - I served my core interests in the best way for me without dependancy on another

 

 

What a fantastic post!

 

I love it when a post completely makes me go 'Oh yeh'.

[silverplanets]

What a fantastic post!

 

I love it when a post completely makes me go 'Oh yeh'.

 

oh don't. i'm gonna blush

[Hazyhead]

oh don't. i'm gonna blush

 

You're very insightful SP

[pureinheart]

What Ellin said above is very true, it does not have to be an EMR for you to want more in a relationship. I have always wanted more in every long term relationship I have had.

 

MM, highschool sweetheart, came back into my life when I had already told my SO I wanted to find another man. Half a year after our EA turned into a PA I ended my relationship with my SO. My SO knew about MM from the very start.

 

I did not realize how damaged and wounded I was until it showed in my lack of trust and my vulnerability with MM. He felt like he was walking on a minefield, afraid to move. But his consistency, his love, his trustworthiness made me heal.

 

 

I don't wait, I live! That is why I say you should ask yourself: Do I want to be with MM today - not in the future, today? Am I content today to be with him? And the answer for me so far is yes.

 

Wow...the HS sweetheart thing...wow...SO/exMM knew all of the people I knew ect....lived down the street from each other growing up.

 

SO (which is what I will refer to him from this point) was there for me all of the time, and that is just they type of person he is anyway. JJ, our R is different, we mess witrh each other a lot, like brother and sister, so I talk sh*t sometimes about him on LS and worse to his face, he does the same with me. When we go to the thrift/antique stores (our favorite thing to do) everyone laughs at us and says we make their day. We went through a very bad time, with both of us having to deal with major issues at the same time, and we lost sight of "us"...that is coming back for me...I have taken my hands off the situation (and other situations) and given it to my God. I am not going to trip about his deal anymore...if we are together fine, if not fine...I too am living for today, and looking forward to tomorrow, should I be graced with that.

 

Life is to short...I am so glad you are ok ....(((((((((huggggs)))))))))

[pureinheart]

You're very insightful SP

 

Silverplanets has that way about him...huh....he said something in another thread that totally explained completely what I had been thinking, although was unable to communicate...he's a lightbulb!

[Hazyhead]

Silverplanets has that way about him...huh....he said something in another thread that totally explained completely what I had been thinking, although was unable to communicate...he's a lightbulb!

 

Indeed :)

[pureinheart]

There is a thread on LS that talks about power relations and jobs in these terms.

 

I wonder on a more prosaic level, do we idealise out APs as heroes and subjugate our BSs as villains? Imo, the BS as the majority has a much more difficult time dealing with the A. Situations can trigger past hurts, whatever. When this happens (and am now talking about all situations, not just the BS) there can be a projection of the past hurts that have not been dealt with that can come out on anyone...not to meantion the present hurt. It's like you try to be cool with stuff for a long time and then something big or small can set off an entire explosion. This is what happened to me, and I have seen it in others.

 

Are there heroes and villains in you scenario, or only people trying to work stuff out? Now, just people trying to work stuff out. In the past, I was dealing with a crazy bunch.

 

Why do we (the OW) need to demonise if an A doesn't work out? Or why does the BS need to do this? Is infidelity not understandable without a demon? Seems there is a lot of hurt and anger....some worse than others. Oh most definitely, imo demons or demonic forces get too much credit, there is the factor of the human will.

 

As a human touch, yes I demonised my xMOM. I researched psychopathic behaviour (re him and me!) I wondered if he were a demon sent by God to f*** up my life and I am not even religious. I looked into posssibilities to understand if psychopathy could be an explanation of how he treated me.

 

I felt exMM and his entire family was a tool meant for my destruction...lol

 

I lloked into possibilities of psychopathy to understand how I ended up in an A. I did too, that is how I ended up on LS

 

Heroes of love or villains of the peace? Neither, just seems to be a controlling situation, sometimes on both parts.

 

And like war, doesn't it matter which side you are on when you win or lose?

Not too sure about this one...don't see any of this as winning or losing, just people taking a look at their lives and becoming better people.

[OWoman]

If the OW simply wants a physical "connection" I would question her choice in a MM. Why not a single one?

 

There have been many threads on this topic, but for the sake of brevity I'll answer (from my perspective): because SGs just don't cut it. They may CLAIM to want "just something physical" but within minutes they're professing love, wanting suburban houses with picket fences and swimming pools and pressuring you to have their babies. That has been my experience EVERY SINGLE TIME.

 

Perhaps it has something to do with age - we're talking (over the period of my sex partner collection phase) guys who would have been late 30s (when I was at my youngest) upward. These SGs would either have been never married - raising questions of why, in itself - and thus very keen to get on with it, or D... usually cut up about the loss of a family and wanting to replace it asap with another. I already had a family. I already had a house. I already had a life. I did not need them to come along and want to provide all that for me - especially not on their terms. My family, social, and other life was perfectly fine as it was. Their role was the physical bit. But.... they wanted more. All of them. Every single time.

 

At least with a MM there was an outside chance that he wouldn't want that, since he already currently had it (albeit with someone else). It wasn't guaranteed, but at least there was a chance... whereas with SGs there was no chance whatsoever.

 

OWoman likely approached her now-H herself' date=' since she dated MM almost exclusively. [/quote']

 

Correct - only I wouldn't call it "dating". IMO that implies holding hands while eating pizza before going to a movie. If I wanted a pizza or a movie, I'd do that with friends. What I did with MM I'd call "shagging".

[wheelwright]

 

Thanks for all your replies pureinheart. I am glad I am not the only one!

[OWoman]

the person who ever mentioned about 5,25,5 yrs of relationship....

 

 

do you have any personal life other than validating yourself with your previous/present relationship.....

 

i feel more worth with the present one

i feel more confident,i am healed because of my present relationship

 

 

you are just identifying yourself in your relationships, but you do not have any identity of yourself...better get one first

 

Funny, but I don't consider learning from ones Rs to be the same as not having an identity outside of one's Rs. To me, it's a sign of reflectivity, rather - something that thinking people do.

[pureinheart]

Thanks for all your replies pureinheart. I am glad I am not the only one!

 

By no means are you the only one...when I saw all of the research you did and the demon thing...*sorry*...but I cracked up and waited to reply so that I would not take up LS's entire server with it! I have at least 50 self help books on the subject, a team of Psychologists (dealing with other matters also)...I wanted every angle, then decide for myself how I got "there".

 

I'm done blaming me, the dog, the cat, the furnature...ect...and most definitely done with blaming SO, exW, kids and so on. This now frees me up to deal with over 40 Post Traumatic issues...sooooo life is good!

[pureinheart]

the person who ever mentioned about 5,25,5 yrs of relationship....

 

 

do you have any personal life other than validating yourself with your previous/present relationship.....

 

i feel more worth with the present one

i feel more confident,i am healed because of my present relationship

 

 

you are just identifying yourself in your relationships, but you do not have any identity of yourself...better get one first

 

Hey Scorp! We do have identity in our present/past R's....some have the ability to shape our future in very possitive ways...we should not place our entire identity....also that was the topic Scorp, or some of the topic:)...

[jennie-jennie]

Funny, but I don't consider learning from ones Rs to be the same as not having an identity outside of one's Rs. To me, it's a sign of reflectivity, rather - something that thinking people do.

 

So true, OWoman. Posting my relationship history is not the same as posting my life history. LOL

[OWoman]

So true, OWoman. Posting my relationship history is not the same as posting my life history. LOL

 

Especially when it's posted in direct response to another poster asking for it...

[OWoman]

I was a villian to myself - I was not serving my interests in the best way for me

 

I think this is ultimately what very much of this R stuff boils down to - being true to oneself and looking after oneself as best as one is able.

 

That can take many forms, depending on one's needs and circumstances at the time - but often, if it deviates from what someone else considers "the norm", it's cast as "selfish" or "irresponsible". But sometimes the "selfless" or "responsible" option is not sustainable because it happens to the detriment of the person.

 

Thanks, SP, for this succinct encapsulation

[wheelwright]

By no means are you the only one...when I saw all of the research you did and the demon thing...*sorry*...but I cracked up and waited to reply so that I would not take up LS's entire server with it! I have at least 50 self help books on the subject, a team of Psychologists (dealing with other matters also)...I wanted every angle, then decide for myself how I got "there".

 

I'm done blaming me, the dog, the cat, the furnature...ect...and most definitely done with blaming SO, exW, kids and so on. This now frees me up to deal with over 40 Post Traumatic issues...sooooo life is good!

 

Now you are making me laugh!

 

I feel I am getting through the 'blaming' too. I guess this is a part of the angle thing though. How bad exactly was I, him, my M? Take it to extreme then work out what kind of middle ground fits, and how to get over it all.

 

I worked out that my xMOM did have some psychpathic traits, but I knew that when I went in. I think they were due to his loneliness, or maybe it was the other way round? He had a sweetness that went beyond mere charm however. Still not sure about his empathy - seemed a tad shallower than most. But I would put his emotional intelligence as high. He cared about me, but he was someone capable of dropping people if they didn't fit in. And nerves of steel when it came to lying. Seemingly no attendant guilt.

 

I hated the deceit in me, and was all over the place dealing with it. I lost my appetite during the A and put this down to love, but it came back not when the love feelings diminished, but after DDay with my H. The guilt stopped me eating. Certainly can't say I treated my H well though. (Don't slam me for this comment anyone - I realise it is an understatement).

 

Perhaps together in an A we acted badly, but not to say that's who we are in other contexts. Perhaps that's part of the nature of an A that is ultimately hurtful to others and ourselves. One more thought to ponder when I say 'never again' to As.

 

What counts as a Post Traumatic issue for you? Do I have more research to do?

[Devil Inside]

So on this topic I have recently had to accept that I still tend to idealize my xAP. It is very frustrating because I really thought I was reaching a point where I didn't anymore. The other day I was faced with really seeing who she was and there was this pause and I thought "awwww I don't want to think that about her." That is what went through my head. Not that I don't...I can see her many faults now, but worse that I don't want to. So it is a choice...I see that now. I am choosing to keep her on a pedestal. I think by keeping her up there I can somehow justify myself. However, keeping all things considered...she is just a woman...like any other...I have chosen to exalt her to royal status.

 

Thing about it now is that it is not fair to the people in my life to think this way (especially myself). There is no way to truly move on from this stage in my life if I can't see it for what it was. It's funny, she herself would tell me..."I can't live up to the version of me in your head." You know what...she is right. I know that the idea of who I wanted her to be is not who she was...and in turn, I am not the person I thought I was when I was with her. I know that the kind of woman I want exists in real life...so I think it is time for me to kick the pedestal out from under Ms. Thing...she's a big girl...she'll find another.

[OWoman]

I know that the kind of woman I want exists in real life

 

To know what kind of person you WANT, you first have to make peace with what kind of person you ARE. And it sounds like you're getting there

[Devil Inside]

To know what kind of person you WANT, you first have to make peace with what kind of person you ARE. And it sounds like you're getting there

 

 

Slowly but surely. Keeping with the theme of the thread..I need to extend myself the courtesy of not making myself a villain or a hero as well.