I ended up paying more than him on a first date...is that a big no no?

[jw90063]

Rich people can be cheap too.

 

Of course. I know plenty of those. I'm not going to accuse the OP of being cheap, but I can't lie, that it kind of crossed my mind. I mean that's what I'm thinking here. It really shouldn't matter SO much to her, especially if she isn't dirt poor, and made a specific comment about she has lots of money. And, of course as already noted, he did pay for something. He paid for dinner.....

 

I have to say though, if this guy knew ANYTHING about what many, many women expect these days(thinking men should pay for everything or they are less of man), he would have been aggressive about the situation, and refused to let her pay a $45 bill. I think everything should have been split up, and when he offered she should have said "Yes....please if you don't mind".

[silverfish]

If affordability was a concern, she should have been the one to pick where to go for deserts since it was her turn to pay. To me, it sounds like she just assumed that she would be entertained all night at somebody else expense and the thought of paying never even popped into her head.

 

I agree that she should have been the one to pick the second place but she didnt - he did! Maybe she assumed as he suggested it that he was going to pay for that place as well.

You don't invite someone somewhere and then expect them to pay...in any social situation, never mind a date. If you are both expecting to pay an equal amount, you should both get a say in where you are going. You do this to give the other person the chance to say they dont want to (or cant afford to) go there, its just good manners

[Johnny M]

I agree that she should have been the one to pick the second place but she didnt - he did! Maybe she assumed as he suggested it that he was going to pay for that place as well.

Your valiant effort in coming up with creative excuses for another female's questionable behavior is admirable, but the OP herself has admitted that she makes good money. So I think it's pretty safe to assume that she's just cheap.

[meerkat stew]

You don't invite someone somewhere and then expect them to pay...in any social situation, never mind a date.

 

Ok, first, the above isn't true at all. When one friend invites another out to do something, it's assumed dutch unless otherwise declared.

 

Second, the above used to be the way I rationalized it. I invited, I should pay. But this is way too convenient a cop-out in a social culture where men are expected to do most of the approaching, date planning and asking out.

 

Want to reiterate here also, that if men didn't feel that a majority of women were as mercenary as they are about this issue, that they feel somehow entitled to be paid for as their due, that this would likely not be the huge deal it is.

 

Another factor that hasn't been discussed yet is that in times past, though a first date certainly didn't guarantee a second date, there was a far greater chance of a second date generally than today. These days, many men have gotten tired of taking a woman out on a perfectly fine first date, paying, and then having the woman completely ignore any further contact from him as if he was a leper or treated her very poorly on the date when he did not.

 

In times past, this was almost never done, and there were real social consequences for women who behaved rudely in this way. If a woman didn't see a dating future with a man, she would tell him directly or at least make up an excuse like washing her hair. Today, she just ignores his contacts. This kind of thing has to happen to a man exactly -once- in life before he starts to question why it is his obligation to pay for women on first dates who may as likely as not flake out completely without any shred of basic courtesy. If many women were more polite in handling their dating affairs these days, the OP situation would likely only arise rarely.

[silverfish]

Your valiant effort in coming up with creative excuses for another female's questionable behavior is admirable, but the OP herself has admitted that she makes good money. So I think it's pretty safe to assume that she's just cheap.

 

Well, if we are judging cheapness based on the facts, he is technically cheaper. I'm not making excuses, just don't think I'd be interested in him after all that malarkey either, never mind what her shortcomings may or may not be. For the record though - she didn't actually behave 'questionably' on the date

[Trialbyfire]

conehead, if anything and I mean anything, bothers you on the first date, don't bother with the second date.

 

Personally, the only time I've pulled out my wallet on a first date since I don't do the fake pay thing, is if I don't want to see the guy again. Then I pay for the entire shot.

 

I'm with Lishy. The guy pays for the entire first date. Any date after that is different.

[silverfish]

Ok, first, the above isn't true at all. When one friend invites another out to do something, it's assumed dutch unless otherwise declared.

 

Second, the above used to be the way I rationalized it. I invited, I should pay. But this is way too convenient a cop-out in a social culture where men are expected to do most of the approaching, date planning and asking out.

 

Want to reiterate here also, that if men didn't feel that a majority of women were as mercenary as they are about this issue, that they feel somehow entitled to be paid for as their due, that this would likely not be the huge deal it is.

 

Another factor that hasn't been discussed yet is that in times past, though a first date certainly didn't guarantee a second date, there was a far greater chance of a second date generally than today. These days, many men have gotten tired of taking a woman out on a perfectly fine first date, paying, and then having the woman completely ignore any further contact from him as if he was a leper or treated her very poorly on the date when he did not.

 

In times past, this was almost never done, and there were real social consequences for women who behaved rudely in this way. If a woman didn't see a dating future with a man, she would tell him directly or at least make up an excuse like washing her hair. Today, she just ignores his contacts. This kind of thing has to happen to a man exactly -once- in life before he starts to question why it is his obligation to pay for women on first dates who may as likely as not flake out completely without any shred of basic courtesy. If many women were more polite in handling their dating affairs these days, the OP situation would likely only arise rarely.

 

I understand where you're coming from, which is why i liked rainmans post about 25 pages ago about going for coffee or something first. Save the fancy pants stuff for later. I'm assuming a basic level of social interaction before the first date I guess, when that isnt necessarily the case anymore.

[Johnny M]

Well, if we are judging cheapness based on the facts, he is technically cheaper. I'm not making excuses, just don't think I'd be interested in him after all that malarkey either, never mind what her shortcomings may or may not be. For the record though - she didn't actually behave 'questionably' on the date

Yes, you are making excuses. Women claim that they want a confident, assertive man who would take charge by a) making the first move and asking them out and b) planning the date and deciding where to go. And then thery are like "Oh but he INVITED me! And we went to the restaurant of his choosing!! Of course he must pay for everything - what if I couldn't afford the $12 souffle??!!"

 

Really, how much more ridiculous can it get? I wonder if you'd change your tune if the roles were reversed - meaning that you had to chase men, impress them, deal with rejection, do all the date planning...and then get accused of being cheap for failing to enthusiastically provide an all-expenses paid night out to a gentleman that you have invited.

[meerkat stew]

One of my favorite bullying tactics seen whenever these double standards come up is that they are to continue merely because "that's what real men do." Will call this one the "Real men don't eat quiche" rationalization going forward.

[1000]

One of my favorite bullying tactics seen whenever these double standards come up is that they are to continue merely because "that's what real men do." Will call this one the "Real men don't eat quiche" rationalization going forward.

 

 

No, this is what a real man would say/do:

 

"Where's my dinner?"

 

"Where's my beer?"

 

"Now leave the dishes in the sink and get in the bedroom."

[thegreatmoose]

When a man offers to just pick up the tab on a first date, no questions asked and no hesitation, these are the messages he sends out:

 

- He is demonstrating that he a can lead, he will act spontaneously and does not wait for an invitation to take charge (super hot! )

 

- It shows he has standards, old fashioned as this standard may be, he displays his need to be the man in the relationship in order for the woman to be a woman. (very hot!)

It's really that simple. I grab the check and pay it every time on the first date. If she offers to share the cost, I make it clear that I really want to pay and every time, the woman seems happy about it. I enjoy paying for the date.

 

This is about the easiest thing for a man to get right on a first date and it's so surprising that some men just don't get it.

[Johnny M]

I have 0 confusion in this respect, and I could care less what women he has dated in the past or what is happening around us in terms of trends and what is expected on a first date. The types of men I choose to date, do not fall into the category of wishy washy spineless metrosexuals who don't even know what gender they are anymore. They are 100% man.When you go out with a man who is 100% man there is no issue with who is going to pay or what is going to happen next. You are able to be the woman that you are expected to be and this is the how a relationship progresses naturally and in the organic way that the foundation of dating was built on.

 

When a man offers to just pick up the tab on a first date, no questions asked and no hesitation, these are the messages he sends out:

 

- He is demonstrating that he a can lead, he will act spontaneously and does not wait for an invitation to take charge (super hot! )

 

- It shows he has standards, old fashioned as this standard may be, he displays his need to be the man in the relationship in order for the woman to be a woman. (very hot!)

A REAL 100% MAN wouldn't take you to no fancy, metrosexual restaurant to begin with. A REAL 100% MAN would sit on the couch, drink beer and watch football while you make him dinner. And should you decide to voice your displeasure, a REAL 100% MAN would take charge and demonstrate his old-fashioned values by making sure that you have to wear over-sized sunglasses for the next month and a half.

[silverfish]

Yes, you are making excuses. Women claim that they want a confident, assertive man who would take charge by a) making the first move and asking them out and b) planning the date and deciding where to go. And then thery are like "Oh but he INVITED me! And we went to the restaurant of his choosing!! Of course he must pay for everything - what if I couldn't afford the $12 souffle??!!"

 

Really, how much more ridiculous can it get? I wonder if you'd change your tune if the roles were reversed - meaning that you had to chase men, impress them, deal with rejection, do all the date planning...and then get accused of being cheap for failing to enthusiastically provide an all-expenses paid night out to a gentleman that you have invited.

 

See this is the kind of drama I would hope to avoid. The confident assertive man just starts to look ridiculous after b) if he then pulls out a calculator to work out 'his share' of the bill.

 

Maybe if you've never set eyes on the person before the first date it's not technically a 'date'. In which case then keep it simple, which is what I would do if i asked someone out

[Art_Critic]

This is about the easiest thing for a man to get right on a first date and it's so surprising that some men just don't get it.

 

Boy, that really sums up the whole 26+ page thread in a few words..

 

Great post Great Moose

[Johnny M]

See this is the kind of drama I would hope to avoid. The confident assertive man just starts to look ridiculous after b) if he then pulls out a calculator to work out 'his share' of the bill.

Another way to avoid the 'drama' is to get separate bills. That's what I do when I go out with my male friends. And isn't that what women claim to want so desperately - to be treated as men's equals?

[thegreatmoose]

Another way to avoid the 'drama' is to get separate bills.

Not on a first date.

 

I always pay on the first date and there's never been any drama about this.

[meerkat stew]

I know what real men are like, I am with one and have been with enough of them

 

Is this turning into a Manwich or Dinty Moore commercial? "Get Dinty Moore Beef Stew in the can... what a REAL MAN likes to eat."

 

Can we please just get back to the gold-digger "My man (a REAL MAN) spends more on me!" contest? Where did Donnamaybe go?

[Art_Critic]

That's what I do when I go out with my male friends.

 

Men do that ?.. When I go out with my friends it is one person that picks up the whole tab and then the next time it rotates to the next guy..

the common phrase is " you buy next time "

 

I always thought it was the women friends that did the splitting of checks..

 

Nothing funnier than to see 4 women spitting up a check and arguing over who ate what and whose drink got stuck on their tab.. etc.. etc..

 

Of course I'm generalizing about the women only doing that and I'm sure there are women that don't but it has been my experience that guys just want to make it easy and fast..

[silverfish]

Another way to avoid the 'drama' is to get separate bills. That's what I do when I go out with my male friends. And isn't that what women claim to want so desperately - to be treated as men's equals?

 

1) See post above

 

Re equals : We're talking about a first date, not a job interview here. You dont find ALL women equally attractive surely?

[silverfish]

Men do that ?.. When I go out with my friends it is one person that picks up the whole tab and then the next time it rotates to the next guy..

the common phrase is " you buy next time "

 

I always thought it was the women friends that did the splitting of checks..

 

Nothing funnier than to see 4 women spitting up a check and arguing over who ate what and whose drink got stuck on their tab.. etc.. etc..

 

Of course I'm generalizing about the women only doing that and I'm sure there are women that don't but it has been my experience that guys just want to make it easy and fast..

 

You are right about women doing that more often than men...although I work in a restaurant and we do have a 'calculator guy'....he a rarity.

[Johnny M]

Not on a first date.

 

I always pay on the first date and there's never been any drama about this.

Judging by some of your previous posts, you are not exactly a big hit with the ladies. No offense, but a guy who has never even had sex with a woman has no business dispensing dating advice

[Johnny M]

Or you can date other men and be gay, that way you can go out with men and you can both pick up your own tabs. In the gay world there isn't much of this "who pays stuff" everyone just goes dutch. Then again in the gay world they rarely make it past blow jobs in the loo as a first date...nor do they have hangups about dating sluts, because everyone is super slutty. They are all dutch going sluts, it's the perfect solution to the "why do men have to pay" drama.

LOL

 

In the same vein, maybe you can date other women and be a lesbian. That way, you can continue your first date washing dishes for the restaurant (which is a great 100% REAL WOMAN thing to do anyway), since both you and your date would be too stingy to pay for their souffle

[thegreatmoose]

Judging by some of your previous posts, you are not exactly a big hit with the ladies. No offense, but a guy who has never even had sex with a woman has no business dispensing dating advice

You are more interested in personal attacks based on non truths than contributing anything.

 

Good luck with that splitting the bill thing on first dates. I can't wait until a woman gives it to you for being cheap.

[Johnny M]

Now why would I do something as stupid as that when my dating philosophy has worked PERFECTLY for me all my life and still does?

 

If it ain't broke....

 

I'm not the one complaining remember, you are. I'm very happy with how I do things.

First of all, I don't buy this for a second. You sound way too bitter for someone who is 'very happy' with how she does things. You're not very good at putting on a brave face.

 

Second, I wasn't complaining about anything; I was merely observing the selfish, egoistical nature of some women who have posted in this thread. Thankfully, not all women are self-centered gold diggers....and those who are can be easily spotted and avoided.

[thegreatmoose]

A REAL 100% MAN wouldn't take you to no fancy, metrosexual restaurant to begin with. A REAL 100% MAN would sit on the couch, drink beer and watch football while you make him dinner. And should you decide to voice your displeasure, a REAL 100% MAN would take charge and demonstrate his old-fashioned values by making sure that you have to wear over-sized sunglasses for the next month and a half.

 

LOL

 

In the same vein, maybe you can date other women and be a lesbian. That way, you can continue your first date washing dishes for the restaurant (which is a great 100% REAL WOMAN thing to do anyway), since both you and your date would be too stingy to pay for their souffle

 

I wonder what world you live in. You love to use terms like REAL MAN and REAL WOMAN, yet you don't have any idea what they mean. Maybe your calendar is a century off and you think it's 1910 rather than 2010.