Sexless marriage - how common?

[HeyThere]

cuppa, your husband’s family history is very thorny.

 

You seem uncertain whether to stay in this relationship or leave. How can this virtual group help you?

[cuppa]

cuppa, your husband’s family history is very thorny.

 

You seem uncertain whether to stay in this relationship or leave. How can this virtual group help you?

 

this helps a lot (though my work is suffering, good thing that I have no deadline this week). Without it, I can see that I will beat myself into submission again and resigned to "as good as it gets" pattern.

 

I just sent him a letter, similar to what I put in here (about 2 pages). I told him that we are much better than a marriage of convenience, if this what he thinks it is, then it's fair to give each other shot of happiness.

 

I also told him that I believe that people who are in love, they want to be passionate and intimate with each other (I think someone said it here too). I also told him that I love him and I used to be passionately in love with him. But now I'm not sure if I'm passionately in love with him because I've been distant the past 7 days, like I feel some part of me dead already and not sure if I could find it again.

 

Is there any book that I can read on how to be alone & happy? I somehow feel that that's going to be my next recovery path. My bestfriend has a few female friends who went through divorce. 70% of them were worse off, one even became so promiscuous that she seemed very hungry of affections that I don't know, it has become sad especially she's a mom to an infant. However, there is one success story but only because in 3 months, she found someone else already and she's quite successful. Because of my meltdown, my career has been suffering too so I think it's quite normal for me to be scared....but I do have OK savings so it's not like I'm going to be starved or something...it's just that loneliness can do damaging things to some people and I'm afraid to become a victim of that.

[cuppa]

and blame it on her Asian dad/Italian mother..... She has nothing on your husband. Reading the post above tells me you better give him an ultimatum, because he will never snap out of his funk based on his upbringing on his own.....

 

He needs to understand he is not normal (and it is not his fault)..... but has to understand that he needs to talk to a professional and make a commitment.

 

So out of curiousity, what have you done in your situation? It sounds like you and I are on the same boat.

Edited January 23, 2010 by cuppa

[Angel1111]

Based on the history of how conversations have gone when you've tried to talk to your husband in the past, I don't think he has any desire to fix the marriage or to change. I don't think he cares about women in general. They're objects to him and that's about it. That's why he really doesn't care if you stay or leave. It makes no difference to him.

 

You know, you can always get a roommate if you just have to have people around you all the time. But you'll probably end up meeting a new guy within 6 mos. And how you act when you're single is really up to you. It's not based on what other people have chosen to do. The thing is, you're just really building it up in your head about being alone. Based on your husband's family history, he'll see to it that you end up totally alone - without him and without children. He probably isn't a malicious guy but his example of how to treat a wife is very much ingrained in his head. It's a very bad idea to try to get people to change. What you see is what you get.

[cuppa]

You know, you can always get a roommate if you just have to have people around you all the time. But you'll probably end up meeting a new guy within 6 mos. And how you act when you're single is really up to you. It's not based on what other people have chosen to do.

 

Looking at my single beautiful friends, I somehow doubt that this will be the case. From what I understand, it's a very brutal dating world out there and looking at my routine right now (home - office - gym - home), I am really doubtful that will happen and I probably need to ease my way into a lot of things. But on the bright side, I just read that Monica Belucci is pregnant at 45 and she had her first child at 39, so there is hope for me and I don't have to act desperate.

 

On anohter topic, I sent the letter to my husband 5 hours ago, I have acid in my stomach and throbbing headache now. It's about 8:30 PM on Friday night and I am still in my office, so afraid to go home. Not sure what to expect, maybe an indiference, maybe a final closure of my marriage...that's it's finally happening. I'm preparing my heart but I guess an indifference will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

[Angel1111]

Looking at my single beautiful friends, I somehow doubt that this will be the case. From what I understand, it's a very brutal dating world out there and looking at my routine right now (home - office - gym - home), I am really doubtful that will happen and I probably need to ease my way into a lot of things. But on the bright side, I just read that Monica Belucci is pregnant at 45 and she had her first child at 39, so there is hope for me and I don't have to act desperate.

 

On anohter topic, I sent the letter to my husband 5 hours ago, I have acid in my stomach and throbbing headache now. It's about 8:30 PM on Friday night and I am still in my office, so afraid to go home. Not sure what to expect, maybe an indiference, maybe a final closure of my marriage...that's it's finally happening. I'm preparing my heart but I guess an indifference will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

 

If you believe it's brutal out there, then it will be. You could meet a guy anywhere, and anything can happen. I wouldn't get too wrapped up in all the negative anticipation, if I were you.

 

Let us know how it goes when you get home. He'll probably be in bed sleeping.

[HeyThere]

cuppa, when you first started to post here you defended your husbands interest in the relationship. You repeatedly have mentioned the cultural traditions of your heritage and have expressed concerns about going against that. Despite the problems and circumstances I encouraged you to try and make your wish come true. As more damning information keeps popping up about your husband, I’ve changed my opinion and agree with the other posters here that your husband will not become the man you deserve. Your husband clearly did love you at one time, but that time has long since past.

 

Once you walk out the door, I predict that your husband will state that he wants to work on the relationship and even make love with you. He may do anything and everything to further confuse you, because he is confused and he likes that you are around. This is what you need to prepare yourself for.

[cuppa]

Angel, HeyThere, and others,

 

I want to thank you for all your advices and support for this week. I found that this thread has given me some courage to push forward the issue and hopefully getting to the final closure.

 

On my letter, I started telling him on how in love I was with him. How I used to have nightmare at night and then I was so relieved that he was right next to me. And then pretty much the whole summary of this thread. After I sent the letter yesterday, I came home around 10 PM, my husband was home and he said he read my letter and he will write back by tomorrow (which he did at 5 AM in the morning). We slept in a separate room for the first time last night and it was very hard, I kept trying to tell myself that it's best that we have our own space until we figure things out.

 

I think I got the answers that I am looking for, though I am very confused on what should be the next step. Perhaps some male perspective in here will help because I do believe 100% on what he writes in the letter.

 

This is what he said (and I started crying and even threw up a bit since this morning - though I just got back from my crossfit training and I feel a bit better now)

 

----------------------------start here------------------------------------------

I am deeply sorry to have caused so much angst, and wasn’t there for you. How have we arrived here?

 

From reading the letter, my feeling is that you see the number one problem in our relationship is the lack of intimacy and affection. So I will address that first. To be honest, I am not sure exactly how the fire was lost; my best guess is that many little things happened during the course, from long distance relationship, to stressful job situation, to the other pressure from life. It’s like dripping water on a stone that at may seem harmless at the moment but chisels away over time

 

I admit that our relationship may not have been always the top priority on my list while there are things on my mind. But it is definitely not always not at the top either. I am sorry that I failed to show that I do care about you and about us. I am not very good at expressing myself

 

There are nights when I felt like I wasn’t going to be up to the standard, and that the outside stress made things worse. I think the starting point was when we were in long distance relationship when I flied down. It was very draining physically to fly out on Friday nights and back on Monday morning. I sort of got used to less intimacy, then other things happened, plus stressful job situation, it became the norm. You asked, why I have the energy to play basketball, but not for others. Well, if I sucked on basketball court, I cuss at myself but that’s pretty much it. But when I can’t get it done in bed, I felt I have disappointed you and myself

 

Not taking trip is another big gripe you have I think. You see, it’s tiring for me to take long trip, but I think you’d expect intimacy during trip. I really don’t know if I’d up to it. Maybe I just sucked at it.

 

As for the thanksgiving talk, I believe that one should not say things when emotional. I was afraid that I would say things that I would lose you forever. It looks like it may have hastened that.

 

I am sorry you got the impression that I only cared about money when you were having difficulties last year. I truly thought that it was due your work situation. I did not understand you enough. As for pushing you to see psychiatrist, I don’t know how to deal with your situation, thinking that it was solely due to your work situation. It’s just like when I ruptured my achilles, I would not expect you to re-attached my tendons, but seeking a doctor instead. On the other hand, I thank you for your love and support during that period, and I did not show enough of love and support during last year. Though I tried, perhaps I appear cold and don’t care, but I do care very deeply for you.

 

I think in a relationship, there are things other than intimacy, like caring, like supporting each other. It looks like I have done a bad job at those too, maybe I should not bring them up…..Right now, I feel the same way on the birthday when I bought a cake and nothing else and you weren’t happy about it, and I was so mad that I threw the cake away…it just wasn’t good enough for you

 

Has there been an irreparable damage? Have we reached the point of no return? At this moment, I have a lot of sort out myself. I feel numb; maybe that’s my self preservation mode.

[HeyThere]

cuppa, your husband’s letter is very touching and honest. Also, it echo’s many of the points you’ve made about him in this thread. Your husband has “skeletons in his closet” that keeps him from being intimate. Also, his fear of having children and an overbearing mother that you’ve mentioned are some of the contributing factors. If he truly feels sorry and does love you, as he says, then marriage counseling is a MUST! Your husband can learn to express himself and that should be a topic in counseling. If you go into counseling, both of you need to highly respect the counselor. Once you both have agreed that it is the right person, he is then not allowed to bail out or if he does, you will walk out of the relationship. You must be prepared to follow through on that, otherwise it is just an empty threat. If in counseling you get to bring up the lack of passion and other issues that drive a wedge between the two of you.

 

Maybe staying in separate rooms for the time being is helpful.

 

Stay strong.

[SimplyBeingLoved]

The one thing that I notice in your husband's letter is that he didn't actually say he loves you. He says he "cares deeply for you" but in my mind, that is not the same thing. I care deeply about my good friends. I care deeply about my relatives. I care deeply about my husband who I am in the midst of separating from. However, I do not feel a deep love for my husband.

 

I think your husband is a very caring person but I also get the feeling that his ability to love deeply, to feel passionate, is blocked. His letter is very heartfelt but careful and controlled at the same time.

[Angel1111]

This letter doesn't do much for me at all. He never really says anything significant - except that his feelings for you died somewhere along the road and he doesn't know what to do about that. Travelling makes him tired? Good grief. He's in his 30's for crying out loud. He has a lot of excuses about the most basic things. He just seems completely dead inside. And he never once said he loves you. I'd bail.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Angel1111

[HeyThere]

The one thing that I notice in your husband's letter is that he didn't actually say he loves you. He says he "cares deeply for you" but in my mind, that is not the same thing. I care deeply about my good friends. I care deeply about my relatives. I care deeply about my husband who I am in the midst of separating from. However, I do not feel a deep love for my husband.

 

I think your husband is a very caring person but I also get the feeling that his ability to love deeply, to feel passionate, is blocked. His letter is very heartfelt but careful and controlled at the same time.

 

Ha, I wonder why I missed that he didn't say he loves you? Maybe he wants to love you again? If you do go into counseling, that would be a major issue to discuss.

[giotto]

I think he need IC to sort out his own issues... and maybe MC together...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

your husband lacks compassion and understanding and shows little emotion.... Giotto is right....

 

Not impressed at all with the letter or his reaction..... You deserve better....

 

Cuppa, Will write more later, but wanted to make sure you saw this Sunday.....

[HeyThere]

cuppa, you deserve to love yourself and be with someone that loves you.

Now you have two choices:

 

Do you want give him another chance, knowing everything that you now know?

 

or - Do you want to move on, knowing everything that you now know?

 

 

 

LoveShack is having some technical difficulties, as this and some other posts were deleted from earlier today.

[cuppa]

This letter doesn't do much for me at all. He never really says anything significant - except that his feelings for you died somewhere along the road and he doesn't know what to do about that. Travelling makes him tired? Good grief. He's in his 30's for crying out loud. He has a lot of excuses about the most basic things. He just seems completely dead inside. And he never once said he loves you. I'd bail.

 

I didn't realize that either. He did call me by my petname in the beginning (which is kind of sweet because we haven't called each other that in a long time) and he also ended it with Love, your husband....but yeah, it's not the same thing.

 

I know he's not passionately in love with me, it's pretty much a given now just the fact that he is dreading for sex/intimacy with me.

 

I think I need a few days to sort out a lot of emotions right now, good thing I have my therapy today, maybe she can give me some pointers on how to move forward or how to sort out my emotions.

[cuppa]

cuppa, you deserve to love yourself and be with someone that loves you.

Now you have two choices:

 

Do you want give him another chance, knowing everything that you now know?

 

or - Do you want to move on, knowing everything that you now know?

 

 

 

LoveShack is having some technical difficulties, as this and some other posts were deleted from earlier today.

 

I don't know...so confused. We went for a dinner last night and he reached out my hands and asked " you haven't decided to leave me, have you?". And then we started talking about other things like how I love to watch horror movie and got so chicken out afterward (like I had to bring my dogs to a bathroom with me after I watched the exorcisms of emily rose). So I always wanted to watch paranormal activity and I jokingly said that i better watch it now before I start living by myself and he is like, I would come if you are afraid, I'll be there for you. So little things like this weaken my resolve....I probably need a few days because I have a mixed of emotions from numbness, sadness, and afraid.

[HeyThere]

I’ve learned to express myself better to my wife, about feelings – mine, hers, our’s – so we can communicate clearly.

 

There is no doubt that your husband thinks of you as an important friend and not as a love partner – you do see that don’t you? Because it’s taken me several days to see that and you’ve been in this passionless marriage for how long now? Your husband can learn to express himself better, but love is not learned. Love is a spark, an excitement, a wonder, a thing of beauty and you know that. This lack of passion and meltdowns are connected, part of your creativity is being robbed.

 

No decision is wrong (I know others feel differently), but why put it off?

 

If you give your husband another chance you take the drivers seat:

 

“If you go into counseling, both of you need to highly respect the counselor. Once you both have agreed that it is the right person, he is then not allowed to bail out or if he does, you will walk out of the relationship. You must be prepared to follow through on that, otherwise it is just an empty threat. If in counseling you get to bring up the lack of passion and other issues that drive a wedge between the two of you.” – part of post #85

 

If you move on you give yourself a chance to find love and to start a family, which I’d be surprised to have your husband change on this subject.

[cuppa]

I’ve learned to express myself better to my wife, about feelings – mine, hers, our’s – so we can communicate clearly.

 

There is no doubt that your husband thinks of you as an important friend and not as a love partner – you do see that don’t you? Because it’s taken me several days to see that and you’ve been in this passionless marriage for how long now? Your husband can learn to express himself better, but love is not learned. Love is a spark, an excitement, a wonder, a thing of beauty and you know that. This lack of passion and meltdowns are connected, part of your creativity is being robbed.

 

No decision is wrong (I know others feel differently), but why put it off?

 

If you give your husband another chance you take the drivers seat:

 

“If you go into counseling, both of you need to highly respect the counselor. Once you both have agreed that it is the right person, he is then not allowed to bail out or if he does, you will walk out of the relationship. You must be prepared to follow through on that, otherwise it is just an empty threat. If in counseling you get to bring up the lack of passion and other issues that drive a wedge between the two of you.” – part of post #85

 

If you move on you give yourself a chance to find love and to start a family, which I’d be surprised to have your husband change on this subject.

 

I will write him another letter tonight. My thought is not exactly coherent at the moment and I am feeling very afraid, like yesterday, he mentioned that without me being here, perhaps he might consider going back to asia (we always talked about perhaps doing more international business given our background ) and as numb as I was then, I felt something in my chest when he said that. I was like NO....you just said you will be my best friend and will come over if I decided to watch paranormal activity .

 

I have to admit that we are actually best friends. We love to go shopping together, we can talk about a lot of things too, and I used to ask his opinions on things I do (career, friendship, family, what clothes to wear, etc). When I walk away, I don't want to feel any regrets so I need to sort out the facts one by one and decide.

 

We don't have kids but we have 2 adorable bichon frises who love both of us equally (and I treat & love them like family members too). When we slept on separate rooms last night, the dogs didn't know which side they had to sleep so one of them annoyingly whined every 2 hours so they can sleep next to me as well as next to him lol. I know this is less complication than kids but if I get my own apartment, I need to bring the 2 dogs with me, they are my support systems and I love them to death. I live in the area where rents are so expensive and probably will be difficult for me to find apartment that can take 2 dogs. I will find it eventually but it's just that I need to make sure that I will not look back and feel regret after doing this.

[HeyThere]

Please no more letters to your husband. You two lack talk and that's what you need to get back to.

[Angel1111]

We don't have kids but we have 2 adorable bichon frises who love both of us equally (and I treat & love them like family members too).

 

I LOVE those kinds of dogs! They're awesome. Well, you could always rent a house, or just buy one, since you have money.

 

Of course, don't leave your marriage unless you are fully prepared to. Personally, I don't think you're there and I think you're going to have to go through a lot more pain and agony before you leave him. I also agree with HeyThere that you need to stop writing letters to him. Men hate that stuff and, besides, you need to just be talking face-to-face about this. What's the purpose in writing to him? He's right there in the same house as you.

[cuppa]

What's the purpose in writing to him? He's right there in the same house as you.

 

I think he can express himself better in a letter or email, especially after the thanksgiving incident. I am just traumatized of being ignored I guess...

 

I went to talk to my therapist today. She thinks that my husband has an anxiety problem in the bedroom and use avoidance to deal with the situation. She shared about one way to deal with it will be to remove the demand (says we do everything but intercourse every night in bed). Not sure if this will work or not, but for sure, right now I don't have the energy. He tried to kiss me today but I feel that I'm no longer feeling it so I stopped him gently.

 

I guess Individual & Sex Therapy is one option (very unlikely that he will agree to it).

 

Marriage counseling is another but I don't know whether he's onboard after the fiasco last time.

 

Leaving is another option. I already started browsing some apartment or townhouse - I have money but not that much but I can probably put down 20% for a decent townhouse and manage the mortgage comfortably.

 

I showed the letter to my bestfriend and she got teary eyed. She said that he must really love me because it's very heartfelt & poignant. But maybe I'm more open in this forum than to her, so I don't know, I need to call her now to discuss about the lack of declaration of love or the fact that he admits that he loves me but he's not passionately in love with me.

[cuppa]

I LOVE those kinds of dogs! They're awesome.

 

...yep, they are the ones that keep me sane throughout this ordeal. If only men as reliable as my dogs (and as adorable as them lol...now I sound like men hater ).

Edited January 25, 2010 by cuppa

[cuppa]

Please no more letters to your husband. You two lack talk and that's what you need to get back to.

 

So I had 2 therapy sessions today, one with my therapist and another one with my best friend (whom I trust a lot). I talked to my husband and I told them that we were both lost in term of how we move forward and I can't accept things the way it is or even accept his words that he will work on it, without me knowing the exact issues or plans. we both need intervention whether it's individual counseling for him or marriage counseling for both of us.

 

I gave him 2 options, just like you laid out:

 

1. Counseling (but it will be different than last time, this time he should want it for himself and participate, including selecting the counselor instead of me dragging him to a session)

 

2. Separate - I will get my own apartment, will take the dogs (but will share them with him since he loves them so much too), and we take about 3 - 6 months before we decide whether we will file divorce or not.

 

He asked for 2 days to think about it. When we came home, he went directly to his room and when I came in, he was crying. I've never seen my husband cried before, not even when his grandpa passed away. My heart is breaking to see him so sad so I hugged him. so yeah...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

So I had 2 therapy sessions today, one with my therapist and another one with my best friend (whom I trust a lot). I talked to my husband and I told them that we were both lost in term of how we move forward and I can't accept things the way it is or even accept his words that he will work on it, without me knowing the exact issues or plans. we both need intervention whether it's individual counseling for him or marriage counseling for both of us.

 

I gave him 2 options, just like you laid out:

 

1. Counseling (but it will be different than last time, this time he should want it for himself and participate, including selecting the counselor instead of me dragging him to a session)

 

2. Separate - I will get my own apartment, will take the dogs (but will share them with him since he loves them so much too), and we take about 3 - 6 months before we decide whether we will file divorce or not.

 

He asked for 2 days to think about it. When we came home, he went directly to his room and when I came in, he was crying. I've never seen my husband cried before, not even when his grandpa passed away. My heart is breaking to see him so sad so I hugged him. so yeah...

 

I'm getting frustrated and mad.... How about him sweeping you off your feet, making love, telling you how much he LOVES you and that he knows he must see a councilor and sort out his issues and make things better for the two of you.

 

Again Cuppa, take all we say with a grain of salt, we don't know you, just what you write on this site. Our opinion is your husband maybe a decent guy, but he knows little about love marriage and how to treat you and enable you to enjoy life.

 

You look at the smallest things he does and look for hope in them. I just am having a problem at how he reacts about everything. He just can not express himself openly and honestly. He needs help.

 

He internalizes everything and comes up with weak ass excuses. Maybe it is not in him, but unless he is willing to try, this can't go on....

Edited January 25, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic