Why humans can say never

[justforfun]

What is in too deep?

 

Nothing, she said she was in too deep.

[herenow]

Another thing I find interesting every time I post something that hits a nerve is the "isn't it time to let it go" line.

 

I know people who have beaten cancer and continue to speak about their illness to those who are sick. I know people who have been poor enough to live out of their car and are now doing very well. They continue to tell others about their journey. These things, that they have gotten over, are still a part of their lives. A part of how they got to where they are now.

 

My H's affair is very much a part of my life. Together with many other things, it caused us both to look deep inside ourselves and our marriage to come out better people on the other side of the pain. I really don't see why some people feel that because I post on LS, I must not be happy.

 

Believe what you want, but how sad to think that the only way to "let it go" is to forget it happened or never speak about it. I choose to embrace all my experiences in life good and bad. They are part of who I am. I may get over it, but it still happened and why should I dismiss that fact?

 

As long as I'm still getting PM's telling me that my words have helped someone, I will continue to post. I really see no reason why I shouldn't.

 

So, if my words cause anyone pain or anger maybe you shouldn't read my posts.

Edited November 24, 2009 by herenow

[fooled once]

Another thing I find interesting every time I post something that hits a nerve is the "shouldn't you be over it by now" line.

 

I know people who have beaten cancer and continue to speak about their illness to those who are sick. I know people who have been poor enough to live out of their car and are now doing very well. They continue to tell others about their journey. These things that they have "gotten over" are still a part of their lives. A part of how they got to where they are now.

 

My H's affair is very much a part of my life. Together with many other things, it caused us both to look deep inside ourselves and our marriage to come out better people on the other side of the pain. I really don't see why some people feel that because I post on LS, I must not be happy.

 

Believe what you want, but how sad to think that the only way to "get over it" is to forget it happened or never speak about it. I choose to embrace all my experiences in life good and bad. They are part of who I am. I may "get over it", but it still happened and why should I dismiss that fact?

 

As long as I'm still getting PM's telling me that my words have helped someone, I will continue to post. I really see no reason why I shouldn't.

 

So, if my words cause anyone pain or anger maybe you shouldn't read my posts.

 

The A is a part of your life, as you well know. It changed you, it changed the dynamic of your marriage. It is something that can either be overcome or not.

 

I commend you for working through it. Not everyone would do that. Many would throw the marriage away. I can't honestly say what I would do I guess you can't know what you would do until you are IN it.

 

The A I was in was over 12 years ago. I post here to possibly help some and to share my experience. I am NOT still grieving it or whatever But it changed me and if it had not happened, I would not have been in the place I was in when I met my H To change the past means the future is altered.

 

Please continue to post; please continue to challenge us/me with your questions. I learn a lot about me and myself.

[herenow]

The A is a part of your life, as you well know. It changed you, it changed the dynamic of your marriage. It is something that can either be overcome or not.

 

I commend you for working through it. Not everyone would do that. Many would throw the marriage away. I can't honestly say what I would do I guess you can't know what you would do until you are IN it.

 

The A I was in was over 12 years ago. I post here to possibly help some and to share my experience. I am NOT still grieving it or whatever But it changed me and if it had not happened, I would not have been in the place I was in when I met my H To change the past means the future is altered.

 

Please continue to post; please continue to challenge us/me with your questions. I learn a lot about me and myself.

 

I love this line: To change the past means the future is altered.

 

My first reaction to the A was to tell my H to leave. I didn't give him a choice. I even met with a lawyer to file for divorce. We went to see a MC so that we could discuss the best way to deal with the kids. It was the MC that convinced me to wait to file the divorce papers. She could tell that there was much more to the story and she was right.

 

I think the time apart was necessary for me to be able to work on myself and then on our marriage. I needed to know that, even if we got a divorce, me and my kids would be fine. I wouldn't have that knowledge if we didn't separate.

 

But back to the topic. It's because of my own experiences and who I am that I can say I would never have an affair. But, to those who say different, who am I to tell you how to feel? That is your opinion, but please don't force your opinion on me.

Edited November 24, 2009 by herenow

[Virgo1982]

Another thing I find interesting every time I post something that hits a nerve is the "shouldn't you be over it by now" line.

 

I know people who have beaten cancer and continue to speak about their illness to those who are sick. I know people who have been poor enough to live out of their car and are now doing very well. They continue to tell others about their journey. These things that they have "gotten over" are still a part of their lives. A part of how they got to where they are now.

 

My H's affair is very much a part of my life. Together with many other things, it caused us both to look deep inside ourselves and our marriage to come out better people on the other side of the pain. I really don't see why some people feel that because I post on LS, I must not be happy.

 

Believe what you want, but how sad to think that the only way to "get over it" is to forget it happened or never speak about it. I choose to embrace all my experiences in life good and bad. They are part of who I am. I may "get over it", but it still happened and why should I dismiss that fact?

 

As long as I'm still getting PM's telling me that my words have helped someone, I will continue to post. I really see no reason why I shouldn't.

 

So, if my words cause anyone pain or anger maybe you shouldn't read my posts.

 

You don't have to get over it. What you could do is ask your H if he ever said he would never cheat. I'm sure you must have thought he had or you never would have married him. And since you stayed with him and feel like he is a better person afterward, I fail to understand why you started this post or why you come to the OW/OM board of people who have already engaged in affairs saying you're goal is to help them with a discussion about saying never to an affair.

 

You have proven through your actions that saying never, cheating, or being an accomplice to cheating means nothing in terms of being humane. If you really believed that, you would be a divorcee.

 

Comparing cancer and homelessness to an affair is probably laughable to those who have had those experiences. I bet they would trade with you any day. I get what you are saying, but it's a bit too much.

 

Once again, people are allowed to say and do whatever they'd like. Someone can say they will never cheat on you and they might. Someone could say they'd never forgive cheating and they do. Someone could say they'd never be in an affair, and they won't. Some people who say they would never cheat-and don't-end up together and sometimes they won't. I am an xOW and I understand this.

 

It's not the concept of your OP that is difficult to understand, the context of your statement was probably annoying to that person who inspired you to start this post. Do you and your H still discuss infidelity regularly? Do you often remind him that you could never be involved in an affair? Is your H a spokesperson for infidelity? Does he bring it up very often?

[herenow]

It's not the concept of your OP that is difficult to understand, the context of your statement was probably annoying to that person who inspired you to start this post. Do you and your H still discuss infidelity regularly? Do you often remind him that you could never be involved in an affair? Is your H a spokesperson for infidelity? Does he bring it up very often?

 

OK in answer to you first question about why I started this thread, I have already answered that so I will just assume you haven't read all my posts.

 

So, I will answer your other questions.

 

My H is a high functioning addict. This was news to both of us, but he fits the profile and has been working a 12 step program since the week after d-day. The affair was the last in a series of addictive acts. There is no doubt my mind, or his, that had he not taken steps to recover, he would continue to have affairs or maybe even something worse. It is proven that the behavior gets worse over time if there is no effort to change.

 

Do we still talk about the affair, not in the way you are suggesting. My H is glad he was caught and he is committed to a road of recovery. This requires him to never forget the things he has done. Not just the affair. If he feels the need to talk about anything, I am always here. Have you ever know anyone in a 12 step program? If you do, you will know how important remembering the past is to not repeating it.

 

Do I tell my H I could never have an affair? No, he already knows that to be true and there is no reason to tell him what he already knows.

 

You can believe whatever you want about me, that's your choice. I will be more than happy to answer any questions you may have. But, if you are determined to just believe that I don't mean what I say, please don't waste my time.

 

Also, there have been BW and OW who say that the pain they have felt because of an affair has been the worst pain of their lives. Please don't call that pain laughable. If you don't believe me go read some other threads.

 

Oh, I forgot, no my H isn't a spokesperson for infidelity. But, he is a sponsor for other addicts. Does that count?

 

If I can help you in any other way, please let me know. But, it will have to wait until after Thanksgiving, I'm off on a family vacation.

 

Have a great Thanksgiving everyone.

Edited November 24, 2009 by herenow

[Tayla]

I commend HereNow for speaking of it. It beats sweeping it under the rug not to be shared and given *experience* advise. I'd rather hear it from someone who has been thru it. I also think that once you are the receiver of this type of betrayal you are more in tune to the damage it can cause. You make a conscious decision to not harm another in such a way. It does take healing.

 

As a person who has been on both sides, I can wholeheartedly say, its unbearable at times and not fun to speak of, so kudos for the honesty.

 

Someone once said 'Never say Never" for it can happen, but ya know what I sat and realized there are some nevers. I will never be five again. Will never get to hug my grandparents, I will never know the true length of the universe in centimeters, I will never know at any given time just how many fish there are in the sea. So there are some nevers and they can be true nevers, So its okay to say I'll never

[bentnotbroken]

I commend HereNow for speaking of it. It beats sweeping it under the rug not to be shared and given *experience* advise. I'd rather hear it from someone who has been thru it. I also think that once you are the receiver of this type of betrayal you are more in tune to the damage it can cause. You make a conscious decision to not harm another in such a way. It does take healing.

 

As a person who has been on both sides, I can wholeheartedly say, its unbearable at times and not fun to speak of, so kudos for the honesty.

 

Someone once said 'Never say Never" for it can happen, but ya know what I sat and realized there are some nevers. I will never be five again. Will never get to hug my grandparents, I will never know the true length of the universe in centimeters, I will never know at any given time just how many fish there are in the sea. So there are some nevers and they can be true nevers, So its okay to say I'll never

 

 

I wish this were the case. Many ap on this board and others have been BS before they were AP. The pain they experienced didn't stop them from helping to visit that pain on someone else.

 

And yes there are some things I we can say never on. I will never be a child molester. I will never be deny my God. I will never understand the dynamics or the thought process that go along with affairs and I will never give birth to another child. There are absolutes in life, whether we like them or not. Not necessarily what we want, but an absolute none the less.

[NoIDidn't]

I absolutely agree that there are some absolutes in life (the "nevers").

 

The thing that is not mentioned by some in the "never say never" crowd (I'm in it, but for different reasons it appears), is that it only applies to things that you really have not decided on.

 

Some people think that a MP would "never" be interested in having an affair with them, so they haven't considered that "never" - until its too late and that's why they say "never say never" so much.

 

Most people in the "never say never" camp have also been so judgmental of people in the very situation they find themselves in, that it becomes a mantra because if they are now the very thing that they used to judge and despise, they assume that everyone else is likely to be there one day too, especially if they, the pinnacle of self-control, did it.

[NoIDidn't]

My reasons for believing in "never say never" is because you don't know what can and will happen in a day. You don't know who you will find out was doing unsavory things that you never thought they would do. For me, its allowing myself AND others to be human.

 

What I find so interesting about many in the "never say never" group, not so much the posters here but IRL, is that they tended to be some of the most judgmental people ever about certain things. So it makes sense, that some are responding to someone that will say never to some things as if it were a judgment passed on them personally. I know many people like this. They have nothing nice to say about certain behaviors, but if they've done it before it becomes "never say never, honey".

[Dexter Morgan]

In another thread it was mentioned that since we are all "human" we can't say "never". A few months ago I got into a heated discussion with an OW because I said I could never have an affair. She told me that I could not be sure and I insisted that I can.

 

How can I be so sure? Because I know myself better than anyone.

 

exactly! You know yourself and what you will refuse to do or become.

 

Just like you CAN say you will never:

 

-murder someone

-eat feces

-jump in the lion's pit at the zoo

-rob a bank

-become a lesbian

-cut your boobs off with a butter knife

 

lots of things someone can say never to, and some people can say never to cheating or knowingly sleeping with a married individual in addition to lots of other things one can say never to.

[datura_noir]

I can honestly say that I will never put myself in a position to be thought of as an OW. Nor will I ever cheat emotionally or physically on my H. Having said that, I want to defend my statement. No matter how down, or how low I feel, or how much I have to deal with-I have my boundaries, and I stick to them. Does that make me better than some people? Nope, just makes me smarter and more self-aware. And I will never apologize or backtrack on that.

 

I totally get where HN is coming from; I am there, and although I do not see myself as some perfect being, I just adhere to my set of absolutes. If a MM came on to me and told me over time how terrible his M was, and how nice I was, I would send him back to his W with a black eye and a note around his neck explaining it. No problem on my end.

 

And as for my husband; after seeing the devestation he caused me, he knows there are no third chances.....no way no how.

[Virgo1982]

I can honestly say that I will never put myself in a position to be thought of as an OW. Nor will I ever cheat emotionally or physically on my H. Having said that, I want to defend my statement. No matter how down, or how low I feel, or how much I have to deal with-I have my boundaries, and I stick to them. Does that make me better than some people? Nope, just makes me smarter and more self-aware. And I will never apologize or backtrack on that.

 

I totally get where HN is coming from; I am there, and although I do not see myself as some perfect being, I just adhere to my set of absolutes. If a MM came on to me and told me over time how terrible his M was, and how nice I was, I would send him back to his W with a black eye and a note around his neck explaining it. No problem on my end.

 

And as for my husband; after seeing the devestation he caused me, he knows there are no third chances.....no way no how.

 

Would you be as devastated this time as the first?

[Virgo1982]

OK in answer to you first question about why I started this thread, I have already answered that so I will just assume you haven't read all my posts.

 

So, I will answer your other questions.

 

My H is a high functioning addict. This was news to both of us, but he fits the profile and has been working a 12 step program since the week after d-day. The affair was the last in a series of addictive acts. There is no doubt my mind, or his, that had he not taken steps to recover, he would continue to have affairs or maybe even something worse. It is proven that the behavior gets worse over time if there is no effort to change.

 

Do we still talk about the affair, not in the way you are suggesting. My H is glad he was caught and he is committed to a road of recovery. This requires him to never forget the things he has done. Not just the affair. If he feels the need to talk about anything, I am always here. Have you ever know anyone in a 12 step program? If you do, you will know how important remembering the past is to not repeating it.

 

Do I tell my H I could never have an affair? No, he already knows that to be true and there is no reason to tell him what he already knows.

 

You can believe whatever you want about me, that's your choice. I will be more than happy to answer any questions you may have. But, if you are determined to just believe that I don't mean what I say, please don't waste my time.

 

Also, there have been BW and OW who say that the pain they have felt because of an affair has been the worst pain of their lives. Please don't call that pain laughable. If you don't believe me go read some other threads.

 

Oh, I forgot, no my H isn't a spokesperson for infidelity. But, he is a sponsor for other addicts. Does that count?

 

If I can help you in any other way, please let me know. But, it will have to wait until after Thanksgiving, I'm off on a family vacation.

 

Have a great Thanksgiving everyone.

 

I suppose it does count. Maybe he could sponsor OW/OM. Tell them what he did and said when he was a WS. I think it's an excellent idea.

 

I am not calling the pain laughable, but it is not comparable to having cancer or homelessness. The fact that you said it was laughable. There is a difference. As I said, I see what you're saying, but I would not compare an affair to fighting cancer or having no roof over your head. I am sure those people would agree. There have been BS who have affairs too after standing before God and promising to never have one. So, once again, saying never never means anyone will refrain from certain behavior and for your argument to be relevant, those same BS would have to have a cancer battle or homelessness in their past as well.

 

I hope you and your family have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

[RedDevil66]

I've had cancer and I've been cheated on, they were equally as painful and heartbreaking.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I've had cancer and I've been cheated on, they were equally as painful and heartbreaking.

 

I've lost 2 children at birth and been cheated on and they were equally as heartbreaking.

[Virgo1982]

I've had cancer and I've been cheated on, they were equally as painful and heartbreaking.

 

And yet you still had an affair. So, the pain imposed on the BS was obvious to you and you still did it. You are very honest. I respect that.

[Virgo1982]

I've lost 2 children at birth and been cheated on and they were equally as heartbreaking.

 

 

Was it because you never thought he would do that to you?

[datura_noir]

Whether or not I would be devastated is a moot point..the actions I would take upon another affair; IF there were another incident, is what I am focused on. I have no problem moving on. I did it before, but yes, it did hurt me, knowing that I was in the dark. Now that I know the signs and the subtle hints, I would be very prepared. There would be no chances for him. But he has learned from this, as have I.

 

It's quite funny actually, because now, my husband is acutely aware of any man that pays attention to me, that even says hello to me....he questions who what and why. I have nothing to hide, so I'm completely taken aback.

[Virgo1982]

Whether or not I would be devastated is a moot point..the actions I would take upon another affair; IF there were another incident, is what I am focused on. I have no problem moving on. I did it before, but yes, it did hurt me, knowing that I was in the dark. Now that I know the signs and the subtle hints, I would be very prepared. There would be no chances for him. But he has learned from this, as have I.

 

It's quite funny actually, because now, my husband is acutely aware of any man that pays attention to me, that even says hello to me....he questions who what and why. I have nothing to hide, so I'm completely taken aback.

 

Not a moot point for me. Now, I do believe you are smarter as you said in your other post. And now that I have been the OW, I am also smarter. Good luck to you and your H.

[fooled once]

II will never give birth to another child.

 

Right there with you!!!

[RedDevil66]

And yet you still had an affair. So, the pain imposed on the BS was obvious to you and you still did it. You are very honest. I respect that.

 

I had cancer after my affair and was cheated after my affair. A build up of bad energy creates a good enviroment for disease

[jennie-jennie]

I've lost 2 children at birth and been cheated on and they were equally as heartbreaking.

 

IWWH, sorry for your loss. I have been cheated on too, and can not imagine that to be as heartbreaking as losing a child at birth. I think it just goes to show that we are different.

 

To me in the case of the cheating partner you have the possibility of making the relationship work again. When someone has died, you have no second chance.

[Tayla]

you are either apart of the cycle or breaking the cycle. Maybe that is why some folks who DO LEARN from the heartache they caused or been the recipient of CAN say _ I will never. Its making that conscious effort to NOT do that deed. So spare me that someone is A MORAL because they saw the light and wanted to NOT be apart of a cycle of behavior that causes heartache. When one learns their lesson they can say I will never....

 

I equate it to child abuse and parents who think its okay to smack the kids around, isolate them, punish them (not discipline), deprive them, control them.

They demean the child and the kid grows up and says one of two things- Hey My parents raised me that way so I guess its okay to smack my kids around and treat them like things and not living respectable humans who need guidance , or they Grow up and say, wow my parents really did some gawd awfull things and I really want to change that pattern and be a better parent then they were. I will listen to my kids, I will guide them, I will discipline them and direct them to make their own decisions. Wow! big difference based on making an effort to break a cycle.

 

SO to those who make the conscious effort to "never" , kudos for putting forth the wise effort

[White Flower]

you are either apart of the cycle or breaking the cycle. Maybe that is why some folks who DO LEARN from the heartache they caused or been the recipient of CAN say _ I will never. Its making that conscious effort to NOT do that deed. So spare me that someone is A MORAL because they saw the light and wanted to NOT be apart of a cycle of behavior that causes heartache. When one learns their lesson they can say I will never....

 

I equate it to child abuse and parents who think its okay to smack the kids around, isolate them, punish them (not discipline), deprive them, control them.

They demean the child and the kid grows up and says one of two things- Hey My parents raised me that way so I guess its okay to smack my kids around and treat them like things and not living respectable humans who need guidance , or they Grow up and say, wow my parents really did some gawd awfull things and I really want to change that pattern and be a better parent then they were. I will listen to my kids, I will guide them, I will discipline them and direct them to make their own decisions. Wow! big difference based on making an effort to break a cycle.

 

SO to those who make the conscious effort to "never" , kudos for putting forth the wise effort

It's a pretty good analogy but just remember that there are plenty of people who go on to abuse even when they were abused themselves as children. And yet, there are those who refuse to abuse after they themselves have been.