Dating a Muslim...

[Midnight Rider]

Have you read the whole Qu'ran? Do you understand? If you were to go to any Islamic forum, you will know that Islam does not permit beating up men, let alone women!

 

Then I guess the quote I referenced must be false teaching. I wonder how many other such quotes are in there, that may be a little skewed or not correct. Thanks for clarifying that!

[hooghie]

Due to the nature of my field I am exposed to people from all over. I dated an Indian woman as well as a Persian (Iranian). The Indian was Hindu and the Persian was Muslem. They were both very nice and I dated each for about a year but there is significant family issues with each. They dont like to marry outside of their group.

 

With the Persian her and most of her family was quite moderate. They ate pork, drank alchohol, etc... all the things they were not supposed to be doing. That included having sex. In the time I knew them neither the girl I was dating nor her sister dated Muslems. They were totally westernized. I asked once about it and they told me they would not date muslem men because its just too hard. In the beginning I did not understand but the longer I was around them I got it.

 

Now her brothers were not liberal even though they were born here. They were very strict fundamentalists and followed the letter of the law so to speak. Prayed multiple times a day, no alchohol, no pork, etc.... The only thing I know for a fact they were totally down with was having sex with as many non-Muslems as they could. That means western women.

 

They definitely separated in their minds, muslem and non-muslem women. Muslem women were not supposed to have sex outside of marriage, period - the end. Western women on the other hand were generally regarded as whores and sluts. To be used and thrown away.

 

Do not discount the power of his family over him. If his family controls him and most do, he will do whatever they want. If that means marrying a muslem woman, he will do it. Beleive me when I say this, because I have seen it first hand. Well educated guys, totally westernized and the next thing they were getting married. Literally with no warning to someone they did not know. Next week they were married. End of story.

 

My advice is you need to find out how religous he is. The fact that he says no sex before marriage says a lot. Is he praying multiple times a day? Does his family's life revolve around the local mosque?

 

If so I think you are going to have a rough road ahead of you.

 

Here is a link on Muslem web site outlining the views:

 

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543072

 

My guess is that with the Persian woman, it had a lot less to do with the fact that you're not Muslim and a lot more to do with the fact that you're not Persian. However, if you have a lot of money, are highly educated and come from a family that is of equal or greater status than the Persian's status, not being Persian is much less of an issue. Please do not confuse religion with culture. Persians love their culture and heritage and THAT IS WHY most don't marry outside of it.

 

Then I guess the quote I referenced must be false teaching. I wonder how many other such quotes are in there, that may be a little skewed or not correct. Thanks for clarifying that!

 

Things can be taken out of context and the translations may not be accurate. Even IF the Quran says that, most people do not follow it strictly just like Most Catholics have sex before marriage and many Christians who consider themselves "Christian" do not follow the Bible strictly and they certainly don't only have one interpretation of what the Bible says.

 

 

OP: You really need to judge him as an individual. Just like the fact that we can't lump all Christians into the same category. Some Christians are pretty extreme while others are very moderate.

 

I will add that his family is important. Generally speaking, most middle eatern cultures are much closer to their families and hold their family's opinions to a much hugher level than Americans. To understand where HIS falls, see how conservative his family is. Look for pictures of his relatives. Are they veiled? If so, chances are they are somewhat conservative.

Edited November 15, 2009 by hooghie

[TaleSpin]

My advice is you need to find out how religous he is. The fact that he says no sex before marriage says a lot. Is he praying multiple times a day? Does his family's life revolve around the local mosque?

 

Well, they only recently built a mosque in our town. Less than a year ago, I think.

 

Are you comfortable with naming your kids names like Abdul, Mohamed or Malika instead of Stephen, Nick or Christina?

 

Uh, yes. Haha.

 

It is permissible for a Muslim man to have additional wives, and they are also permitted to beat their wife. Are you ok with that?

 

I am 100% sure he is not interested in multiple wives or beating me.

 

Look for pictures of his relatives. Are they veiled? If so, chances are they are somewhat conservative.

 

None of his female siblings or cousins wear hijabs, but his mom does.

 

...

 

So! I didn't end up asking him anything. I was all geared up to bring all this up and then during a lull in our conversation, he just blurts out, "So, what are we doing, me and you? What is this?" And I was obviously caught a little off guard, so I just said, "I don't know..." And then he said, "It's okay. We can talk about it later." To be continued, I guess.

[cheergirl]

I wouldn't necessarily assume that. He may be more easy-going now when the relationship is more casual, but it might matter to him when things get serious (if he's devout). Some Muslims (or whatever religion) do have an attitude that it's OK to date or mess around with non-believers, but then strictly adhere to religious norms when it comes to marriage.

 

His family needs to be seriously considered, even if he seems like a lax Muslim. I've known many Muslim guys that were really laid back and non-religious during their teens (OK with smoking, drinking, etc) but then felt heavy familial pressure as they got older and became very traditional/fundamentalist.

 

I totally agree I think this is the best advice you're going to get here...

 

People change...Marriage, family expectations & responsiblities are powerful motivators to "get in line"...

 

Being completely honest, if I were a Muslim/Christian man I would date whomever I wanted, but when it came to marriage I would definitely marry a woman who saw it as her religious, cultural duty to submit to my authority...Just would eliminate a whole lot of unnecessary problems... It be like a warranty. If I could find someone at the outset who'll do that and only have sex with me, done deal....

[Els]

NO, the majority of Muslim teachings (they have different 'mazhabs', like Christians have Catholics/Methodists/etc) do not permit beating wives!

 

Honestly, it depends on the sort of Muslim he is. I live in a Muslim predominant country, and I would advise you to give it up if he's a conservative/religious one. The partner MUST convert (which denotes the tudung, at the very least, and also praying and fasting, and no alcohol/unhalal food), they are allowed 4 wives (not sure if it bypasses state monogamy laws in the USA though), etc. If you;re not sure what sort of Muslim he is, you really should ask him.

 

If you don't want to... Does he pray 5 times a day? Don't need a mosque to do that. Does he fast during Ramadhan? Does he abstain from alcohol/pork?

[Midnight Rider]

NO, the majority of Muslim teachings (they have different 'mazhabs', like Christians have Catholics/Methodists/etc) do not permit beating wives!

 

Ok. Fair enough. Will you admit that while some Muslim teachings clearly instruct it, while others (as you say) teach otherwise, that there are contradictory statements/teachings in your Qu'ran?

[Johnny M]

Have you read the whole Qu'ran? Do you understand? If you were to go to any Islamic forum, you will know that Islam does not permit beating up men, let alone women!

I've read the Koran (yes, the whole thing, not just select passages) and I can't think of another book that contains so much hateful drivel, with the possible exception of Hitler's Mein Kampf.

 

And whoever says that certain passages in the Koran should not be interpreted literally or taken seriously is full sh*t. The Koran itself states that everything in it was dictated to Mohammed by Allah word for word. And I'm pretty sure God wouldn't have said something he didn't want to be taken seriously.

[Els]

MY Quran? I'm not a Muslim. I agree that many passages there are controversial. However, we're not here to discuss whether the Quran is contradictory or not. We're here to discuss the ramfications of the OP being with a Muslim. You said that she shouldn't be with one because Muslims are authorized to beat their wives - I'm calling falsity on that one. Most mainstream Muslims believe that husbands are not to treat their wives with violence, hence if the OP's (bf?) isn't from those few sects that approve of it (and if he lives in the USA, chances are he isn't), your point is moot.

[Midnight Rider]

God wouldn't have said something he didn't want to be taken seriously.

 

I'll tell you one thing, it wasn't God who dictated those words. At least not the same one who sent Christ.

[Midnight Rider]

However, we're not here to discuss whether the Quran is contradictory or not. We're here to discuss the ramfications of the OP being with a Muslim.

 

I think the discussions of the Qu'ran as they relate to marriage are in context and relative to the discussion regarding OP and her dating Muslim man. I believe unless she objects, she is using the information for processing purposes.

[Rudderless]

I'll tell you one thing, it wasn't God who dictated those words. At least not the same one who sent Christ.

So did you get your religious intolerance from the bible? Corinthians 10:20?

[CaliGuy]

If you don't share his beliefs then I don’t think you're a good match.

 

The other issue is, having known someone who dated, married and subsequently divorced a Muslim man, be very careful. If you do not understand the culture you will be in for a very severe shock.

 

My advice is walk away unless you plan to convert to the Muslim religion. Otherwise, you're in for a rough ride.

[Midnight Rider]

So did you get your religious intolerance from the bible? Corinthians 10:20?

 

(If you feel it's on topic) - Do you dispute what I said?

[Rudderless]

(If you feel it's on topic) - Do you dispute what I said?

Quite simply, there's more than one interpretation of a religious teaching. I could say for instance the bible teaches racism, religious intolerance, and homophobia. We could sit here all night and debate it. But would I be stupid enough to draw the conclusion that the interpretation makes a christian person bigoted? No of course not. I wouldn't do it for a muslim either, or any religion for that matter. You have to take people for who they are, not their religion, colour, which football team they support etc. etc. Hatred is only fuelled by ignorance.

[TaleSpin]

Ok. Fair enough. Will you admit that while some Muslim teachings clearly instruct it, while others (as you say) teach otherwise, that there are contradictory statements/teachings in your Qu'ran?

 

I'll tell you one thing, it wasn't God who dictated those words. At least not the same one who sent Christ.

 

I've read the Koran (yes, the whole thing, not just select passages) and I can't think of another book that contains so much hateful drivel, with the possible exception of Hitler's Mein Kampf.

 

The Qur'an and the Bible are full of contradictions and terrible, hateful things that can only be attributed to men, not God. At least, that's how I feel. I'm not a fan of any religion that relies heavily on prophecy.

 

Quite simply, there's more than one interpretation of a religious teaching. I could say for instance the bible teaches racism, religious intolerance, and homophobia. We could sit here all night and debate it. But would I be stupid enough to draw the conclusion that the interpretation makes a christian person bigoted? No of course not. I wouldn't do it for a muslim either, or any religion for that matter. You have to take people for who they are, not their religion, colour, which football team they support etc. etc. Hatred is only fuelled by ignorance.

 

I agree with this.

[Johnny M]

The Qur'an and the Bible are full of contradictions and terrible, hateful things that can only be attributed to men, not God. At least, that's how I feel. I'm not a fan of any religion that relies heavily on prophecy.

So why are you dating someone who believes in this kind of crap?

[Juno123]

I have dated a Muslim and he wanted sex. But I think it depends on how religious he is. If he's really religious, then no sex before marriage and virgin wife is a given but if he tells you he isn't very religious then nothing to be concern about. You should ask him how religious he is.

[hooghie]

(

I'll tell you one thing, it wasn't God who dictated those words. At least not the same one who sent Christ.

 

Oh brother...

 

You can always tell the freaks of a religion by how zealously they defend their own while attacking another.

 

I don't think over 1 billion people (i.e. Muslims) are dumber than you and after years and years of religious teachings haven't come to the profound conclusions as someone (you) has come to after reading a few passages on line and watching tv.

 

Personally, I think ALL religion has serious issues and that is why I don't practice ANY.

[TaleSpin]

So why are you dating someone who believes in this kind of crap?

 

Because I like him.

 

Aside from our not having sex, his being Muslim hasn't effected our relationship at all. He doesn't run around yelling "Praise Allah!" all day or anything. He's a musician. He's super hot. He's witty. He makes me laugh nonstop. He devotes a lot of his free time to me. When I was younger and in high school, I always thought he was one of the cool kids, so I feel pretty lucky to be with him now.

 

But... you know, I'm still not very optimistic about this relationship.

[CaliGuy]

Because I like him.

 

Aside from our not having sex, his being Muslim hasn't effected our relationship at all. He doesn't run around yelling "Praise Allah!" all day or anything. He's a musician. He's super hot. He's witty. He makes me laugh nonstop. He devotes a lot of his free time to me. When I was younger and in high school, I always thought he was one of the cool kids, so I feel pretty lucky to be with him now.

 

But... you know, I'm still not very optimistic about this relationship.

 

Then you need to sit down and have a long talk with him. Have you guys even discussed how you see marriage in the long term? If you're not discussing your long term plans, why are you talking about marriage?

 

These are uncomfortable talks to have but VERY necessary so you can clear the air and make sure you both have common goals. Not having this talk is why people marry the wrong people and end up divorced.

[Johnny M]

Because I like him.

 

Aside from our not having sex, his being Muslim hasn't effected our relationship at all. He doesn't run around yelling "Praise Allah!" all day or anything.

 

He's a musician. He's super hot. He's witty. He makes me laugh nonstop. He devotes a lot of his free time to me. When I was younger and in high school, I always thought he was one of the cool kids, so I feel pretty lucky to be with him now.

So would you date a Nazi if you liked him and his beliefs did not affect your relationship? Let's say he was super hot, witty, a musician, and didn't run around all day yelling "Heil Hitler"?

[reservoirdog1]

Oh I don't know, maybe this?

 

Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

 

Is this not present in your Qur'an, or is is a false teaching/verse? Not my words, but came from your prophet.

 

Well, I suppose it was only a matter of time before a few people started in on the "Islam-must-be-bad-because-the-Koran-tells-Muslims-to-do-bad-things" angle.

 

Deuteronomy 13:6-11 (21st century King James version):

 

6"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend who is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, `Let us go and serve other gods,' which thou hast not known, thou nor thy fathers

 

7(namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth),

 

8thou shalt not consent unto him nor hearken unto him, neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him;

 

9but thou shalt surely kill him. Thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

 

10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die, because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

 

11And all Israel shall hear and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you."

 

Basically, if anybody tries to tell a Christian that there are other options of faith out there that might be considered, it's not enough to simply reply "no thanks, I'm a Christian". Nope, you're to go out and straight-up murder their ass.

 

Wow, Christianity really is a closed-minded, bloodthirsty faith. I advise everybody on this board to avoid dating Christians. Or even talking to them! Because if you ever make the mistake of suggesting they check out a different faith, THEY WILL KILL YOU!!! Because the Bible says they must!!!

 

Holy crap, why didn't somebody show me that passage years ago? Like, BEFORE I ever dated a Christian girl?!?!? Or went to Sunday school as a kid? I've been living on the edge of a knife for most of my life, and didn't even know it!!!! F-U-U-U-U-C-C-C-K-K-K!!!

 

 

Seriously people... I can't believe that anybody with half a brain can really hold such xenophobic, uninformed, narrowminded views as some of those expressed in this thread.

Edited November 17, 2009 by reservoirdog1

[Els]

I think the discussions of the Qu'ran as they relate to marriage are in context and relative to the discussion regarding OP and her dating Muslim man. I believe unless she objects, she is using the information for processing purposes.

 

No, it's not. You're using this for your own propaganda against Islam. What matters the most is what her bf does, not how you choose to interpret their Holy Book.

[reservoirdog1]

No, it's not. You're using this for your own propaganda against Islam. What matters the most is what her bf does, not how you choose to interpret their Holy Book.

Exactly. By MR's logic, marrying a Christian is equally dangerous, simply by virtue of a literal application of the Bible.

[sally4sara]

Exactly. By MR's logic, marrying a Christian is equally dangerous, simply by virtue of a literal application of the Bible.

 

Not as dangerous as marrying a Buddhist! I barely got out of there with my life what with all the chanting!

 

I tease.....

 

Honestly, with a few exceptions, most religions have a violence against women theme. None shall pass. But the violence usually only plays out when the followers are fanatical about their worship.