Affair moved marriage forward.

[whattodonow12]

Those of you that point out to reasons why there would be issues with sex in a marriage are correct. You have good points such as someone that is paralyzed etc.... I was thinking more of a situation where I was with a spouse that didn't want to.. or didn't want to get help. I think that there is a difference.

[Holding-On]

Ditto. I have brought this point up over the years, the responses are still the same, sex drives a lot of people.

 

Nope. Not the same. According to the OP, she married him and then sprang it on him. So presumably she just sucked it up until she couldn't any more.

Her complete lack of concern for the pain it caused the OP would strike me as far more cold, calculating and downright mean than the fact she doesn't want sex. So, no, she is not required to have sex with him but you can't say "I want you to only eat at my house, but surprise!, I'm never feeding you anything" without being the jerk.

 

I mean saying "I hurt so much. I've tried and realized I can't get over this. but I love you. I care about you and your feelings and desires. Is there any way we can make this better for both of us?"

Is much different than. "I hurt. I'm not having any sex with you. Suck it up."

 

many options are there including open marriage, divorce and live together as roommates and parents, counseling, therapy, prostitutes, etc....

Edited October 14, 2009 by Holding-On

[White Flower]

Nope. Not the same. According to the OP, she married him and then sprang it on him. So presumably she just sucked it up until she couldn't any more.

Her complete lack of concern for the pain it caused the OP would strike me as far more cold, calculating and downright mean than the fact she doesn't want sex. So, no, she is not required to have sex with him but you can't say "I want you to only eat at my house, but surprise!, I'm never feeding you anything" without being the jerk.

 

I mean saying "I hurt so much. I've tried and realized I can't get over this. but I love you. I care about you and your feelings and desires. Is there any way we can make this better for both of us?"

Is much different than. "I hurt. I'm not having any sex with you. Suck it up."

 

many options are there including open marriage, divorce and live together as roommates and parents, counseling, therapy, prostitutes, etc....

Excellent point. Her childhood pain and current issue seems to override his. Her past victimization has lingered into their current issue and he is supposed to validate her but she cannot validate his needs.

 

OP, In this case I have to wonder if it would be a GOOD thing to tell your wife. She needs to know that her withholding of sex and intimacy is driving you to look for it elsewhere. If the issue is not addressed, chances are that you will look again eventually. Many victims of molestation overcome their battle and have wonderful, intimate marriages. With your help, she can overcome this.

[JumpinJimmy]

Riley707, don't let these people bully you into feeling bad. To many people that have been cheated on skulk around the OM/OW forum just to vent. If it worked for you, your conscience can deal with it, and gave your family a more stable home life then so be it, it ended it being a good thing.

[jwi71]

Time to be blunt as my point, which parallels UF has been missed....

 

Its ok to have an A if you don't get enough nooky at home? And that makes the M stronger. That's the premise here...go on and read...but its what I understand.

 

Well..then tell your W how strong your A made the M.

 

Oh? You won't? Now why wouldn't you want to share that lovely nugget with your W...how an A made your M better...

 

FOR YOU. Odd how you left the "for me" part out.

 

Your W however...well its the same ol' same ol' for her. But YOU...well...cake and eat it too.

 

So lets end this BS right here and now. This has NOTHING to do with your M or your W. Its all about YOU and YOUR needs.

 

I see nothing about making your M or your W better. Only you.

You won't tell your W because you know its wrong. It would further damage a wounded soul. Your solution...do it anyway then lie, gaslight and obfuscate her into oblivion. Drop the martyr bit...its frankly disgusting here.

 

Go ahead and get a D. You HAVEN'T done anything to improve the situation...you made it worse and you know it. You haven't addressed squat.

[tami-chan]

OUCH - so in YOUR view, a damaged woman - through no fault of her own - who has a bad view of sex - but managed to get married inspite of it and have sex and have kids -- unless she puts out, at the man's whim I guess, then she shouldn't hold the title of wife? Really?

 

When we marry, there is this implicit agreement that goes with being a "married couple"-to take care of the needs of each other-emotional, physical, financial. If the wife had told him that sex was something she was not comfortable engaging in BEFORE they got married then this might have been something that they could have taken care of prior to marriage. Bluntly, marrying him without being honest about issues that is basic in a marriage is DECEPTION.

[NoIDidn't]

Riley, I agree with the poster that said don't let the others bully you for your position. I can see how you reached it. And I agree with your decision to not tell your W.

 

I was sexually abused as a child. It was only a one time thing, but you'd be amazed at how even that one incident colored so much of my experience of sex. I feel for you and your W.

 

I'm actually quite offended at the people that are villanizing her for not telling you immediately. She probably didn't know how it was going to affect her. Its not uncommon for a survivor of past sexual abuse to start shutting down sexually AFTER having children. There is much research on this fact concerning women survivors. Something about the *trauma* of pregnancy and birth reminding us of the lack of control we had in the abuse situation.

 

Either way, I do hope you have some physical intimacy in your marriage. You will not be able to do without that. And I support the suggestion to get her back into counselling and do push through the pain and the fear of confronting the memories of the abuse. They don't have to control her anymore. She shouldn't be so willing to re-victimize herself by not fighting to enjoy her sexuality.

 

The freedom I now have was so worth the pain of confronting those demons. I hope you can convince her of that too.

 

Good luck and welcome.

[tami-chan]

I understand how after having children the victim of sexual abuse shuts down...but here is the thing...she did not trust her then fiance enough to tell him she was sexually abused. She told him 7 years later. While she might not have known she would "shut down" sexually after having kids, keeping that very painful, important past that has shaped how she is now is not fair to the husband- he has to live with it now-nay, suffer because of it! She chose to keep that to herself, and understandably so, however with that secret she is hurting another person.

 

This is the problem about keeping secrets. A secret always have a way of manifesting itself in one form or another.

 

At any rate, OP, good for you for working on your marriage. I hope somehow your wife will be able to work on her issues soon.

[NoIDidn't]

I understand how after having children the victim of sexual abuse shuts down...but here is the thing...she did not trust her then fiance enough to tell him she was sexually abused. She told him 7 years later. While she might not have known she would "shut down" sexually after having kids, keeping that very painful, important past that has shaped how she is now is not fair to the husband- he has to live with it now-nay, suffer because of it! She chose to keep that to herself, and understandably so, however with that secret she is hurting another person.

 

This is the problem about keeping secrets. A secret always have a way of manifesting itself in one form or another.

 

At any rate, OP, good for you for working on your marriage. I hope somehow your wife will be able to work on her issues soon.

 

I kept my abuse secret for 15 years. But I never kept it secret from a romantic interest. I (thought I) knew how it affected me in intimate relationships. I told my parents a year before I married.

 

I agree with you that she should have told him before they married, but I will tell you from experience that that doesn't guarantee anything. I told my H before we even started dating, and the issues we faced after marriage were not avoided just because I told him. If anything, it made him far more cautious and only worked to imprison HIM too in fear that he was pushing me too far or wanting to do too much. And there were times that I was triggered and it scared the hell out of my H.

 

So, I won't judge this woman for not telling him until seven years after marrying him. She, like many before and after her, likely didn't know how it affected her and probably wanted to keep this as her own personal shame.

 

She didn't realize that keeping it a secret was going to imprison her. And that's what its doing. Its imprisoning her sexuality and sexually. She is probably terrified of truly allowing herself to *feel* anything. And that's the sad part.

 

If I have said anything that might help the OP get his W back into therapy to defeat this, I hope he shares it with her. If his attitude towards her and his marriage has truly changed, this might be the push she needs. Not telling her though. Finding out that my H was having an EA made me feel victimized all over again. It was after this that I stuck to therapy and did the truly hard work - for myself.

[tami-chan]

I kept my abuse secret for 15 years. But I never kept it secret from a romantic interest. I (thought I) knew how it affected me in intimate relationships. I told my parents a year before I married.

 

Sexual abuse is just really, really horrible and I am sorry you were a victim of it. But yes, you are right about nobody could really know the long-term effects. Telling your romantic interest about your terrible secret is the only thing you could do-but as they say, he then had to make a decision to take that chance on you, knowing that you trusted him enough to let him in on it.

 

I agree with you that she should have told him before they married, but I will tell you from experience that that doesn't guarantee anything. I told my H before we even started dating, and the issues we faced after marriage were not avoided just because I told him. If anything, it made him far more cautious and only worked to imprison HIM too in fear that he was pushing me too far or wanting to do too much. And there were times that I was triggered and it scared the hell out of my H.

I get this. But you did what you needed to do-the only thing you could do, at that time. Your H couldn't go back and say-you withheld impt. information about your past. You see, you both knew there is a source from which the things that were not right about your sexual relationship came from or your behavior that scared him. Some kind of a spring board to work things out.

 

So, I won't judge this woman for not telling him until seven years after marrying him. She, like many before and after her, likely didn't know how it affected her and probably wanted to keep this as her own personal shame.

I am just saying that it is deception to withhold such vital information whose fallout could be damaging to other people. Isn't this the same argument as when a WS keeps the affair secret from the BS when there is no D-day? I am not saying the damage is the same-I am saying it is the same argument.

 

She didn't realize that keeping it a secret was going to imprison her. And that's what its doing. Its imprisoning her sexuality and sexually. She is probably terrified of truly allowing herself to *feel* anything. And that's the sad part.

Ok...can the husband also say, "I didnt know that not having sex in the marriage is so utterly lonely and this feeling of rejection, helplessness hurts so bad that I had to seek out another woman to make me feel semi-whole again?

 

Finding out that my H was having an EA made me feel victimized all over again. It was after this that I stuck to therapy and did the truly hard work - for myself.

Yes, of course. The affair and the sexual abuse are both betrayals. Edited October 14, 2009 by tami-chan

[NoIDidn't]

Sexual abuse is just really, really horrible and I am sorry you were a victim of it. But yes, you are right about nobody could really know the long-term effects. Telling your romantic interest about your terrible secret is the only thing you could do-but as they say, he then had to make a decision to take that chance on you, knowing that you trusted him enough to let him in on it.

 

I agree.

 

I get this. But you did what you needed to do-the only thing you could do, at that time. Your H couldn't go back and say-you withheld impt. information about your past. You see, you both knew there is a source from which the things that were not right about your sexual relationship came from or your behavior that scared him. Some kind of a spring board to work things out.

 

Interesting you say this. My H used to say "knowing what I know now...." quite a bit in the early days.

 

I am just saying that it is deception to withhold such vital information whose fallout could be damaging to other people. Isn't this the same argument as when a WS keeps the affair secret from the BS when there is no D-day? I am not saying the damage is the same-I am saying it is the same argument.

 

I know where you are going, but I can't equate the two because I don't believe that all affairs need to be disclosed. Like I think it would be a horrible idea for the OP to tell of this one. I think telling is on a case by case basis. Having been abused is certainly vital information. It should go on a potential mate checklist, for certain.

 

Ok...can the husband also say, "I didnt know that not having sex in the marriage is so utterly lonely and this feeling of rejection, helplessness hurts so bad that I had to seek out another woman to make me feel semi-whole again?

 

I don't think that this applies in this case. She didn't ask to get abused. And marriages become sexless for far more other reasons than just sexual abuse. Her not realizing how the abuse could affect her relationships, even the raising of her children is not her fault. But the sex in their relationship could have dried up for many reasons. Suppose she hadn't been abused sexually, and he just mistreated her and she didn't want to have sex with him because of issues in their marriage? He would have the same feelings, but his own actions would have played into it as well. Not to mention, you are including the cheating in that statement and I don't know of any woman that would be motivated to change after having something like that thrown into their faces. Cheating is as much a choice even if it might have an underlying reason.

 

I think the OP is okay, for now, in his marriage. Sex isn't everything. And maybe his marriage really is one of those that can survive without sex. Some couples take celibacy vows (I know, that means its mutual though), so it can be done and done happily. He seems to be choosing to see his W as sick and possibly incurable, and that works for him. Plus, he also said that he chose a woman he wouldn't fall in love with and the emotionally disconnected sex just turned him off more than not having it. But where he is right now works for him.

 

I am always saddened to hear about other survivors that are having a hard time at living as sexual creatures, and the saints that decide to stick it out with them.

[boomboom63]

if your wife doesn't like/want sex with you perhaps she should have an affair (without your knowledge of course) to get "those feelings" back and then you can both live happily ever after- maybe she'll get pregnant again!

[Lucky_One]

Physical touch feels good, and is a necessary part of our life. Babies in NICUs who are touched with appropriate "masage" techiniques gain weight at a faster rate and leave the hospital faster and healthier. Babies in orphanages were routinely given food but no physical touch, holding, snuggling - and many died or had what we call now "failure to thrive" (mental issues, educational delays, social delays, growth delays).

 

That said, the scenario of the quad spouse who was hit by a truck? I think people would be shocked, amazed or even pleased (depending on the viewpoint of the listener) to see how many caregivers engage in EMAs. People NEED to be touched. It is very very difficult to get your need for intimate touch filled by a person who can not touch you back and who is wearing a diaper and who sleeps in a hospital bed in your home.

 

One of my friends' mothers lived at home for years with dementia that started when she was 50. She died at age 71. For the last 5 years, her father went on one weekend a month away with his old high school widowed GF that he reconnected with online - with their childrens' blessings. He needed affection, interaction, and touch with another human being; so did his GF. Everyone was as happy as they could be with the situation being as bad as it was.

 

Saying what you will and will not do before you are put into the situation is like saying that you will never do X Y or Z with your children like your parents did - and you wake up one morning and realize you have become your mother.

[fooled once]

As someone who has been abused - sexually abused - by a famly member for 7 years; I GET what the wife is going through.

 

In addition, I was raped at 19; I was a virgin at that time. So sex for me brings up a lot of memories.

 

I am lucky enough to have a husband who understands this. He doesn't force me, he doesn't do things that trigger memories.

 

I am lucky that way; sounds like the OP's wife isn't so lucky.

 

She is suppose to just 'suck it up' and get over it. How callous and cruel.

 

She didn't manipulate him. She chose NOT to share it with him.

 

But how is her choice any worse than HIS CHOICE to have an affair? Seriously? Isn't he just as bad by going outside the marraige and screwing someone and getting his rocks off?

 

How about maybe the OP work with her, work to get them the help they need to move forward? Or is it just easier for him to go screw someone else?

 

We don't really know what is going on in the marriage. We only know what the OP is telling us and I believe his view is colored because he has to say she (the wife) is basically a cold fish to justify him screwing around.

[riley707]

Again, some really strong points in here.

 

For one, I used to be angry about being hit with this into the marriage. But then I read up on abuse. Tons of books. NoIDidn't nailed this on the head:

 

"Its not uncommon for a survivor of past sexual abuse to start shutting down sexually AFTER having children. There is much research on this fact concerning women survivors. Something about the *trauma* of pregnancy and birth reminding us of the lack of control we had in the abuse situation"

 

It was the birth of our daughter that triggered her flashbacks, and from this point forward things really started to change. Birth of our son wasn't so bad, but having a young daughter was the kicker.

 

I have to give her credit for being able to have sex in the first place. I'm sure it wasn't easy for her when we were working on our kids. Having sex with flashbacks of abuse? That is something I would never want for anyone. She's tried therapy and each time, right before she gets to the point about talking about the abuse, she stops. Comes home and says, "..I just couldn't do it. " Either we have very bad luck with therapists around here, or she is not ready...maybe will never be ready.

 

As for being bulleyed....not even close. I feel great. Wonderful in fact. So much has opened up for ME, and the by product for OTHERS is:

 

-No longer angry 100% at wife

-Enjoy slow walks and quiet chats with her more

-Enjoy our children much more

-Spend less time with friends and more time with family

-Work harder at job to make more money for family

-Actually cut back on using hand. Before A, was like once a day. Now its once ever 3-4 days. Don't need it much.....for now.

-Give wife more affection. Back rubs, foot massages. Anything that doesn't trigger her negative feelings.

-Take it real slow around the house, less yelling.

-Have actually learned to downplay the role of sex in life.

 

And so on. To the others out there who say this was selfish, I'd say just because it didn't work for you and you were hurt doesn't mean you have to push that "hurt" onto others who made it work. Its about being a positive force of change...for yourself and for any others you can share.

 

Here is a kicker. So wife was abused. Probably, her step father was abused too. They divorced. So the abuse ruined her sex life, killed her mom's marriage, her Mom feels guilty for allowing the abuse and can't allow herself to remarry, and now, with my marriage the pain continues.

 

Its amazing how something as evil as abuse can cross through generations. Someone, one day, needs to break the chain and stop its effort at ruining disconnected lives. That is what I am trying to do.

 

So if I tell her. Then she is crushed. Then she sees the abuse as causing this. She feels to blame herself, she blames me for being weak. Then she is hopeless, then the pain, the anger, maybe she asks for a D. Now my two kids have a broken house. I have a broken life. My kids suffer and have to bring this whole Charlie Foxtrot into their own marriages.

 

Or....I lie and never tell. Try to stop all this right now and preserve the innocent lives of our children and try to help heal my wife. If I can stay strong and never have an A again, I've broken the chain.

Edited October 14, 2009 by riley707

[eeyore1981]

That is what I am trying to do.

 

So if I tell her. Then she is crushed. Then she sees the abuse as causing this. She feels to blame herself, she blames me for being weak. Then she is hopeless, then the pain, the anger, maybe she asks for a D. Now my two kids have a broken house. I have a broken life. My kids suffer and have to bring this whole Charlie Foxtrot into their own marriages.

 

Or....I lie and never tell. Try to stop all this right now and preserve the innocent lives of our children and try to help heal my wife. If I can stay strong and never have an A again, I've broken the chain.

 

ROFLMAO!!

 

That's beautiful, man. You have an affair not because you are selfish, but because you are breaking the cycle of abuse. It's a noble, self-sacrificing thing you have done. You then lie about the affair because having an affair is not the marriage destroyer, just having her find out about it is.

Priceless.

[HisSweetThing]

ROFLMAO!!

 

That's beautiful, man. You have an affair not because you are selfish, but because you are breaking the cycle of abuse. It's a noble, self-sacrificing thing you have done. You then lie about the affair because having an affair is not the marriage destroyer, just having her find out about it is.

Priceless.

 

It must be nice to see everything in black and white. For me there is gray everywhere. People are shaped by what they have lived. I have never understood why anyone would want to judge another human being so harshly - and I'm not just picking on you eeyore. People want to blame the wife and people want to blame the husband. I don't think anyone is to blame. I think they have been dealt the circumstances they are dealing with and they are both doing the best they can to survive with as little damage as possible to themselves and to the people that they love.

[riley707]

Hey eeyore1981...I never said I wasn't selfish. I was and still am. Never said for one instant that what I did was justified or right. If I could have done soemthing else I would have...tried to think of one for years and couldn't. 100% satisifed with my outcome.

 

Since you are so easy to see through my shallow actions, I'm curious as to how you would have handled the situation differently? We're all in these forums to help out....correct? I'm serious.

 

Maybe I could use some of your advice for the next time I feel so weak?

[JumpinJimmy]

R, It is good that you feel strong, as you sound strong in your decisions. I just know how the BS's/WS's here chip away at a chink in the armour and get people to feel guilty and blow up their marriages over it just because their's were destroyed. Everyone's marriage is different and there is no one size fits all solution for affairs.

[eeyore1981]

It must be nice to see everything in black and white. For me there is gray everywhere. People are shaped by what they have lived. I have never understood why anyone would want to judge another human being so harshly - and I'm not just picking on you eeyore. People want to blame the wife and people want to blame the husband. I don't think anyone is to blame. I think they have been dealt the circumstances they are dealing with and they are both doing the best they can to survive with as little damage as possible to themselves and to the people that they love.

 

Did I hit a nerve?

 

I don't "see everything in black and white." I just call bs when I see it.

 

What do I see in this thread? I see a married guy going for a long time with little to no sex in his marriage. I see that guy choosing to make sex the most important thing in his life, then using that choice as justification to go out and have sex with another woman behind his wife's back. I then see same guy stating in black and white his doing this was to break the cycle of abuse and destruction, and continuing on with the lie as, paraphrasing by me, doing his wife a favor.

 

He says his wife was sexually abused, and he didn't find out about it until 7 years in, so he was misled, and she won't 'fix it'. Until you have been through this, you can't imagine what it is like, no matter how hard you try. Sometimes the reliving it can be worse than the original living it. Yet, hey, he can be so fixated on sex he goes out and has it with someone else for however long, he saw no reason to crawl into his own head and figure out why that was the most important thing to him, but he expects his wife to face all these massive demons she did not choose to bring upon herself.

 

If this was so right and justified, it should not have been that big of a deal to go to his wife, pre-A, and tell her what he planned to do. The fact he did all this behind her back pretty much says it all.

[2sure]

Hopefully, to improve your marriage even further your wife will find herself someome whom she feels sexually comfortable with.

[Untouchable_Fire]

As someone who has been abused - sexually abused - by a famly member for 7 years; I GET what the wife is going through.

In addition, I was raped at 19; I was a virgin at that time. So sex for me brings up a lot of memories.

I am lucky enough to have a husband who understands this. He doesn't force me, he doesn't do things that trigger memories.

I am lucky that way; sounds like the OP's wife isn't so lucky.

She is suppose to just 'suck it up' and get over it. How callous and cruel.

She didn't manipulate him. She chose NOT to share it with him.

But how is her choice any worse than HIS CHOICE to have an affair? Seriously? Isn't he just as bad by going outside the marraige and screwing someone and getting his rocks off?

How about maybe the OP work with her, work to get them the help they need to move forward? Or is it just easier for him to go screw someone else?

We don't really know what is going on in the marriage. We only know what the OP is telling us and I believe his view is colored because he has to say she (the wife) is basically a cold fish to justify him screwing around.

 

Many times the things that happen to you in life are not in your control. You do control how you respond to it. She lied to him about the problem to begin with. Then once she destroys his sex life... she refuses to put forth any effort to make things better.

 

I've been through one of these relationships before... and I would rather die than be trapped in one the rest of my life. Does that compute?

 

I think because your viewing things through your distorted lens... you fail to see what other people need.

 

I got smacked around pretty good as a kid, and I had serious anger management issues in my teens... but after alot of effort... I'm better than most! I don't break things... I don't punch people... I don't say things to hurt people anymore.

 

Yeah, we've all got issues... get over it.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Hopefully, to improve your marriage even further your wife will find herself someome whom she feels sexually comfortable with.

 

How about she starts with herself!

[eeyore1981]

Hey eeyore1981...I never said I wasn't selfish. I was and still am. Never said for one instant that what I did was justified or right. If I could have done soemthing else I would have...tried to think of one for years and couldn't. 100% satisifed with my outcome.

 

Since you are so easy to see through my shallow actions, I'm curious as to how you would have handled the situation differently? We're all in these forums to help out....correct? I'm serious.

 

Maybe I could use some of your advice for the next time I feel so weak?

 

"And so on. To the others out there who say this was selfish, I'd say just because it didn't work for you and you were hurt doesn't mean you have to push that "hurt" onto others who made it work. Its about being a positive force of change...for yourself and for any others you can share.

 

Here is a kicker. So wife was abused. Probably, her step father was abused too. They divorced. So the abuse ruined her sex life, killed her mom's marriage, her Mom feels guilty for allowing the abuse and can't allow herself to remarry, and now, with my marriage the pain continues.

 

Its amazing how something as evil as abuse can cross through generations. Someone, one day, needs to break the chain and stop its effort at ruining disconnected lives. That is what I am trying to do."

 

Above are your words from your post. This is what my H does, he says things, and when I comment on what he said, he either denies he said it or says that isn't what he meant.

 

What would I do in your situation? I'm not a man whose wife isn't putting out, but I am a woman whose husband has not met my 'needs' for many years, so not a big stretch. I thought about divorce a lot, but I also recognized I was not the only one who would be impacted, ie, I thought of others, such as my children, as well as myself. In my situation, it would have been more hurtful to my children for me to leave than hurtful to me to stay and make the best of it. Now, I'm getting myself in order. I'm working on myself, fixing my thought processes that are screwed up from years of manipulation, working out, building up my social life, etc. Hopefully H is using this time to get his head out of his @ss and dealing with his issues. If not, there will be a divorce in my future.

 

I understand the despair and hopelessness that comes into some relationships, of course I do, I've lived it myself. I think a lot of the difference is some of us are aware, no matter how bad it is, an affair is a choice, not something that just happened, not something we were pushed into. It's called being brutally honest with yourself.

 

IMO, if you take away all the trappings of your situation, what you are left with is you chose having sex over your wife and children. You were lucky enough to not get caught, but that doesn't change what you did and why you did it.

[eeyore1981]

Hopefully, to improve your marriage even further your wife will find herself someome whom she feels sexually comfortable with.

 

LOL, I'll pray for her.