Why does everyone want to call it an addiction?

[GreenEyedLady]

just an observation...

 

GEL...i think that Nowhere's post was very articulate and honest...

she made NO excuses for her A or feelings about addiction to IT, etc..

 

i am not condoning any A..but OW/OM are here to vent and heal too..

and i believe that your response was a bit harsh..since Nowhere's post was very AUTHENTIC and honest.

 

IMHO;)

 

I'm sure you do.

 

I live everyday with someone who used to be like Nowhere. And the worst thing anyone can do is enable.

 

So we come from different viewpoints. And that is my view. Be it harsh or not, it is something that l live. I do not see the value in the patting someone on the head and telling them what they want to hear.

 

Growth hurts. I have seen it and lived it. I would not be doing anyone a favor to say other than what I know about from experience.

 

I didn't get to where I am by going with the flow.

 

GEL

[NowhereToHide]

I'm sure you do.

 

I live everyday with someone who used to be like Nowhere. And the worst thing anyone can do is enable.

 

So we come from different viewpoints. And that is my view. Be it harsh or not, it is something that l live. I do not see the value in the patting someone on the head and telling them what they want to hear.

 

Growth hurts. I have seen it and lived it. I would not be doing anyone a favor to say other than what I know about from experience.

 

I didn't get to where I am by going with the flow.

 

GEL

 

Yes, we do come from different viewpoints... clearly.

 

What I think is fascinating is the need for people to come onto these boards with the belief that there is a rule book for surviving infidelity. And if you don't follow "their" rule book, then you are a moron. It's utterly ridiculous.

 

Growth does hurt. But growth doesn't just occur by your narrow viewpoint about how some of us should feel. Just because you don't believe that someone can be addicted to the feelings provided by another person doesn't mean it's true. What may help one person may not work for another...

 

I have no desire to still be attached to my xAP. And I am working like hell to break the attachment that still exists.. and guess what? I'm making progress WITHOUT following your playbook. I'm doing what I need to do to recover.

 

It doesn't help to criticize or enable those on this board that are seeking help. If you can't offer something constructive, don't post.

[White Flower]

IMO, the easiest way to tell the difference between an "addiction" or the "affair fog" is to actually LIVE with your partner day in and day out; share household chores, bills, kids, etc. If you still want to be together after spending a year REALLY together, then call it love. Otherwise it is completely untested and only a fantasy-type relationship where everyday life and its predictable drudgery never enters the picture.

I think there are ways APs can test themselves on this theory. Your premise is absolutely right, but let's take it a step further by looking at how long the A has lasted, how many storms have passed, etc. Hard times will show you who you're AP is and eventually you will see them for exactly who they are. Everytime the APs jump through these hurdles they can re-evaluate whether they have love or an addiction and decide where to go from there. Love can be real in an A just as an addiction can be.

[White Flower]

I agree...not everyone here is addicted to the person they are having an affair with.

 

Addiction is a defense mechanism. This is the way it works: you have intolerable emotions and you cope with them by soothing yourself with an addictive behavior. The object of addiction can be anything...drugs, alcohol, food, work, gambling, the internet, or a relationship with another person.

 

When you use a person as a way to avoid feelings that you do not think you can cope with you are engaging in an addictive pattern. What makes affairs even messier when it comes to addiction is that they are not healthy relationships. How could it be healthy to be involved with somebody if either you or they or both of you are already with somebody else. So you feel bad (or anxious, bored, scared, whatever) and you reach out for the comfort of your object of addiction, the other person, and then you feel bad because remaining in this relationship is also harmful to you as a person, your integrity, and your self esteem. So feeling bad what do you do? Yup...you reach back out for the person and the cycle continues.

 

This is what makes NC so hard. You are really missing that comfort that the other person provides. You feel alone, and you want to reach out...but you are NC...so you have to finally feel the feeling you may have been avoiding through the addictive relationship. Maybe you are trying to avoid the feeling of abandonment that you sense whenever a relationship ends...well this will kick up full force when you are in NC...and if you are used to coping with this emotions through an addictive defense mechanism, then you will feel like you can't live without them.

 

So how can you tell if you are addicted to someone? Well I think you have to be very real with yourself. What is it about this relationship that keeps you in it? Do you tend to turn to this person to avoid difficult emotions in your life? What are those emotions? Does it hurt too much when you cannot have contact with them? Are you changing many things in your life to accommodate this relationship? Do you have a history of using addiction as a defense mechanism?

 

Another thing that makes it so difficult is that many times you will be in a relationship with someone else that is also addicted to you. So two addicts feeding each other is very intense. It can feel like true love...to finally have found someone that has uncontrolled passion for you. However, being out of control with your emotions does not necessarily mean passion...it means out of control. It can feel great to be with someone like this...and yet a little unbalanced and unsafe at the same time.

 

Also...you can love someone and be addicted to them at the same time. It does not have to be one or the other. However, it is easy to think...breaking up with them hurts so bad...so I must be in love with them. This is not necessarily true. Withdrawing from your object of addiction is more painful and difficult then grieving the loss of a lover.

 

In the end we all have to be real honest with ourselves when it comes to these relationships. Only we can truly know what emotions and thoughts are connected to our behavior.

Thank you for this great post DI.

[Devil Inside]

So much of counseling today means putting pretty labels on people to make them feel better about the bad choices they've made in life and keep the people who love them from leaving them.

 

I find it so inauthentic.

 

GEL

 

GEL...I can see why you would think this. However, as a therapist...I do not agree with the general message of the above statement. I am assuming...and I'm sure you'll tell me if I am wrong...that as therapists we tell people they have diagnosis X...and for that reason they are not responsible or do not have to be accountable for what they have done. That is just not the name of the game...at least not in my practice...or anyone else I know that is worth their salt...and I know hundreds of great therapists.

 

So these "pretty labels" we have...they are usually just a way for us to organize typical patterns of behavior that tend to be common among folks with a similar background and life situation. When you can tell someone that they have an addiction or personality disorder you are giving them something to grasp on to. Something they can go out and buy a book on, something that they can say to themselves...others have struggles with this...they have a name for it.

 

However...along with the diagnosis come researched methods and protocols for treatment. See giving something a label also organizes it in a way that makes it easier to treat. Part of any good treatment is to really assess what you are looking at...and knowing how this had historically and currently treated.

 

There are many parts to good therapy. First there is a stage where someone must be made to be felt safe. This takes time. You really have to make someone feel validated and understood. This is probably the part that makes it difficult to be a therapist. You have the ability to see the good in others...even when it is only a molecule. You can either do this or you can't...you can't learn this in school.

 

Next you give them insight into their behaviors. This may or may not come with a diagnosis. I am not one that always gives out a diagnosis...but when it is staring you in the face it is the right thing to diagnose so that you can give yourself as the therapist a blueprint. Part of the insight stage is helping the person to accept responsibility for themselves. I do not tell someone...you are an addict...so you do not have to be responsible for anything you do. I tell them you are an addict...so you have to be even more on your game than most people...knowing this, you must be responsible and avoid these kinds of situations. See the pretty label helps someone to know how to be responsible. Just telling someone to buck up and be real doesn't usually work with most people...that's why Dr. Phil and Dr. Laura are horrible therapists and instead host tv and radio shows. Some people need more support and strategy then that....they have learned to be irresponsible in childhood...and it takes some effort to unravel that.

 

This is also where it helps to work with the family. See everyone has to be responsible for their choices and their happiness. I tell spouses of addicts that they are in for a long road...and that they need to have their boundaries and limits. Usually I find...people in relationships with those that have diagnosis...have a a diagnosis of their own. Things are rarely so simple as an irrespnosible person and a victim. Usually you have two people involved in a very dysfunctional relationship dynamic.

 

Last would come your favorite stage...action. This is where some action steps are identified and carried out. This is where someone is held accountable to their behavior by me and themselves. This is the tough love stage...one that many on these boards would be good at facilitating.

 

So, that's my two cents on the matter. Knowing what I know about your situation...which isn't much...I would assume that you get a little defensive when you hear others stating that an affair can only be a dysfunction and mental illness. I agree...that for some...they need to think this in order to heal on all sides of the equation. However there are affairs that go on to become healthy and wonderful relationships...despite their genesis in lies and betrayal. Having the direct and take action personality that you have,, and remembering how you acted in your affair with your guy I can see why you had success.

Edited October 19, 2009 by Devil Inside

[tami-chan]

It's a good thing you take my insurance, DI....

[donnamaybe]

I think there are ways APs can test themselves on this theory. Your premise is absolutely right, but let's take it a step further by looking at how long the A has lasted, how many storms have passed, etc. Hard times will show you who you're AP is and eventually you will see them for exactly who they are. Everytime the APs jump through these hurdles they can re-evaluate whether they have love or an addiction and decide where to go from there. Love can be real in an A just as an addiction can be.

 

If it was really "love" why would a MM/MW put their "loved one" through all these trials and tribulations for year upon year? Makes no sense.

 

I would NEVER call that love, except maybe the MM/MW's self love.

[GreenEyedLady]

Yes, we do come from different viewpoints... clearly.

 

What I think is fascinating is the need for people to come onto these boards with the belief that there is a rule book for surviving infidelity. And if you don't follow "their" rule book, then you are a moron. It's utterly ridiculous.

 

Growth does hurt. But growth doesn't just occur by your narrow viewpoint about how some of us should feel. Just because you don't believe that someone can be addicted to the feelings provided by another person doesn't mean it's true. What may help one person may not work for another...

 

I have no desire to still be attached to my xAP. And I am working like hell to break the attachment that still exists.. and guess what? I'm making progress WITHOUT following your playbook. I'm doing what I need to do to recover.

 

It doesn't help to criticize or enable those on this board that are seeking help. If you can't offer something constructive, don't post.

 

Oh, but you are following their rule book, don't you see?

 

You've taken the "addicted" label.

 

I really hope that you figure out what's missing inside you before you cheat on your H again. And maybe next time you'll hurt not only him, but an AP who really is a good partner, and your family and even yourself. It will happen again, if you don't face the facts about yourself. That's essentially why I don't believe in the hocus pocus Affair Fog theory. It basically operates under the premise that something else is the reason for the A: addiction. When the reason for the A is really YOU.

 

If you don't like what I post, put me on ignore. I've done my time here.

 

GEL

[GreenEyedLady]

GEL...I can see why you would think this. However, as a therapist...I do not agree with the general message of the above statement.

 

Knowing what I know about your situation...which isn't much...I would assume that you get a little defensive when you hear others stating that an affair can only be a dysfunction and mental illness. I agree...that for some...they need to think this in order to heal on all sides of the equation. However there are affairs that go on to become healthy and wonderful relationships...despite their genesis in lies and betrayal. Having the direct and take action personality that you have,, and remembering how you acted in your affair with your guy I can see why you had success.

 

I would think that you would not agree with me or you would be out of a job.

 

I get irritated when grown people don't accept responsibility for their actions. I find it especially deplorable to blame personal weakness on an addiction, because clearly it is not an addiction, it is a choice. It is a choice to sleep with another person other than your spouse and it is a choice to sleep with a married person.

 

It is a choice to reconcile the M, it is a choice to end the M. It is a choice to tell a lie as to where you are going and who you are going to be with. These are all choices, and as long as everyone feeds into the addiction model, the wayward will not be able to fix what they need to fix. It simply enables them, because they are addicted, you know...

 

GEL

[WalkInThePark]

I am always surprised and puzzled when people here use the words addiction and fog on this board for the A. Why would the A be the addiction and the fog and not the M? I think staying in a M that is less than optimal is often also an addiction/fog. People keep believing that they can change their partner, that they can change their M, can't get rid of old connections, have this ideal image of themselves as family man and husband in a relationship from which the spirit has gone a long time ago.

 

I thought the description and explanation of the Split Self Affair in the book by Emily Brown is very good. The A happens because a person is not able to show all aspects of himself/herself in his/her relationship, they have to suppress it (because they think they have to suppress it since it might upset their partner). Subconsciously, people always look to be complete so sooner or later they look for an outlet. Some choose the hard way and start IC. Others look for something outside their relationship, which is unhealthy.

 

What I often see, is how the MM on this board "demonize" both themselves and their AP. "Oh, I have been a bad boy and now I will try to be good", "I have issues but so has my AP", "Me and AP were both miserable people and my W is oh so good".

Instead of thinking in terms of good and bad, I think one should try to figure out who he/she is, what he/she needs to be happy and whether there is a realistic chance that the person they are married to can give them what they need. Without letting themselves be blocked by how things should be, by what everyone expects them to do or be.

[jennie-jennie]

WITP, I find this terminology "split self affair" interesting. I have not heard it used before, but this is exactlly what my MM is describing.

 

My MM did go NC to see if his marriage could provide him with what he needs, but I wonder if it is too late. What he found out from being NC was that he could not stay away from me and that he could not work on his marriage as long as he was in love with me.

 

I have suggested IC to him, and he is open to this suggestion although he still is pushing it into the future.

 

How are you supposed to be able to find out if the marriage can give you what you need when you are already in a long term relationship with somebody else? Is it not too late then?

 

I believe my MM not only thinks, but knows, that his W gets upset with some aspects of him. I guess if he would have told her their M was hanging on it, perhaps she could have opened herself up to these parts of him. Still, I don't know, she can't change her personality either to suit him. The question then becomes how deep are the aspects of HER personality which make him suppress parts of his.

Edited October 20, 2009 by jennie-jennie

[jennie-jennie]

I would think that you would not agree with me or you would be out of a job.

 

I get irritated when grown people don't accept responsibility for their actions. I find it especially deplorable to blame personal weakness on an addiction, because clearly it is not an addiction, it is a choice. It is a choice to sleep with another person other than your spouse and it is a choice to sleep with a married person.

 

It is a choice to reconcile the M, it is a choice to end the M. It is a choice to tell a lie as to where you are going and who you are going to be with. These are all choices, and as long as everyone feeds into the addiction model, the wayward will not be able to fix what they need to fix. It simply enables them, because they are addicted, you know...

 

GEL

 

I have been much helped by being diagnosed with OCD. This made me understand that there were others like me, that I was not crazy, that it was an illness I suffered from. This took a huge load of off me.

 

Going from there to calling the love of my life an addiction is something completely different. He is the joy of my life. He is my most cherished relationship. My bond to him is stronger than to any other adult person. I completely agree with GEL on this one. Let's take responsibility for the choices we make. There is a strong pull and attraction, but still we make a choice.