Inside The Mind of a Cheater

[NoIDidn't]

Yay!

 

I'm glad you handled it the way you did. I always say that I am not a therapist, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

 

You needed to allow yourself to feel it. To feel that sadness for a moment. It almost always passes. And eventually, it will start to pass sooner and will come less often.

 

I don't advocate "forgetting" about the OP/MM. That's not the way human emotions work anyway. Sure, NC *feels* like you are doing a forced forgetting, but it really is more like allowing yourself to feel without making contact.

 

And if you also stop allowing yourself to obsess about her and the A, "indulging in the fantasy of the A" as you called it - you will find yourself feeling that sadness less often.

 

Healing is hard, but this is what it starts like. One mountain peak at a time.

 

Good luck, DI.

[Fallen Angel]

DI,

 

I am curious as to if you read any of that book( I mainly skipped the chit chat and story line and read the RULES and the rationalizations behind them), and if you think your OW did the things they tell women to do in it? Especially the first four "rules" they give??

 

I think they hit the nail on the head with some of that even though i keep referring to it as "old fashioned, the man as God, bulls**t" .

 

I look back into my own marriage and see how in the beginning of our courtship I acted that way towards my xH, but as the marriage progressed and I saw all his flaws I quickly gave up on him leading and "took over". I think this happens in a lot of relationships, and that is when things start to get bad. Women get resentful for "having to do" what they think the man should do, and men get resentful for the woman taking over in an area that he sees as his JOB to be responsible for.

 

In my own M the result was we both quickly became angry and bitter, his response was to cheat, drink, and abuse me.... my response was to over eat, get depressed, take his abuse, but excel at making things "work" in the household ie. figuring out how to pay the bills after he had taken his whole paycheck and spent it on women/booze/drugs. Essentially taking on what should have been his masculine role of providing for our family.

 

But now in my A with MM I am the complete opposite of what I was in my M. I constantly feed/boost his ego, defer to his wishes, and let him take the lead, following submissively but with a happy heart. In return for this I am rewarded with extreme tenderness and affection aimed at me from him. He treats me like a China Doll, like an exotic priceless treasure that he wants to protect and please always. He is allowed with me to be very traditionally MASCULINE and I am with him allowed to be very traditionally FEMININE, roles we both seem to thrive in.(Which is why I think we are both having such a hard time disengaging from this affair, because we are both getting EXACTLY what we need from each other in it.)

 

Your thoughts? Do you think a blurring of some of these more traditional roles in your own marriage may have contributed to your own A? Did you feel more "masculine" durring your A? (putting aside the obvious feelings of guilt you experienced.. i mean during the moment to moment of the affair, not the time away from your OW when you could dwell on deeper feelings)

[PhoenixRise]

DI

 

I am glad to see that therapy is helping you.

 

Interesting breakthrough, the conventional wisdom here and from what I have read other places is that you should tell your spouse about these feelings that you have as part of the rebuilding process. But for you, you did much better dealing with your feelings on your own, without contacting your OW and without bringing your wife into it.

 

I use to take a Yin yoga class where you were placed into very uncomfortable (but not painful per se) positions and you had to hold them for 5-7 minutes without moving. Every time you moved or fidgited to make yourself more comfortable the teacher started the time over again. She said the point of the exercise was to teach us to not immediately shy away from that which makes us uncomfortable, to accept discomfort. To teach us to be comfortable in discomfort. To be with the feeling in the moment knowing that it will pass.

 

It was valuable training for me in dealing with my marriage post dday.

 

Sounds a little like your breakthrough, realizing you can feel what you feel and not act on it if it doesn't serve you.

 

I hope you have continued clarity DI

Good luck.

[inhindsight]

DI - I am SO GLAD you had your breakthrough.

 

It does get easier.

 

I second NoIDidn't in that you shouldn't "forget" that person - but rather treat that part of your life as a chapter that has ended, and the book has closed, and you can never go back You grieve, and move on.

 

As with death, grieving is process. And you MUST let yourself feel it in your private moments.

 

Sending waves of support your way. (((((hugs)))))

[Spoiled]

I wanted to write about something that happened in therapy today. It may be useful to some people out there..hopefully..but maybe not.

 

So last night I had a wave of sadness hit me. I was missing my xOW. Why? Well for starters...because I have issues and I choose to keep things going..but in a more practical sense...triggers. I had surgery on Monday and felt pphysically vulnerable, I have been on here writing about her, posting a song about her, and etc... It is just not helping..and in fact it is a choice I am making to do this...which is a way of keeping her in my heart...so I need to make the difficult choice and stop. Most of the time LS helps...I advice others...I get good support and advice...but lately I have been indulgent in the fantasy of the affair..and I need to stop that...I need to make better choice.

 

Anyways...so I was sad. It was to the point that you could read in my face that I was sad. I did not want my wife to see me like this. She would ask what was wrong and I would either have to lie or tell her...either option sounded crappy. So I made the unselfish choice to go into the bathroom, splash some water on my face, and make the choice to put on a non sad face for bed. My wife did not know I was sad. After she fell asleep I cam down and posted about being sad. Then I sat back and allowe myself to feel it. I did not try to contact her. I did not try to talk to my wife and involve her in my emotions. I made the difficult choice and sat with it. Guess what...it passed.

 

So I brought this up with my therapist today. He told me that this was the best I have done with these emotions since we have been working together. He said I allowed myself to feel it. I did not drag my wife into it..and hurt her. I did not do something stupid like write xOW an email. I allowed myself to feel it...and like all emotions..waited until they were gone..because emotions are like that they come and go if we sit with them rather than avoid them and compund the situation.

 

He also told me. I will have to do this many more times. He told me that the powerful emotions and investment of the affair was not going to disappear. He said that I should expect to have these waves or pangs of emotions...and learn to get through them. He said I need to "innoculate" myself to them. That if I expect I won't have them..I am lying to myself and will fail. That I shoud be prepared..and feel them...but don't act. No need for the drama basically.

 

I think this is important for others to hear. If you were very attached and invested in the affair...it will take time to not miss it. It will take time to not have a wave of emotion. This is important for BSs to hear to. If your WS is really going to work through their emotions...they have to acknowledge them. However...there is no need to act on these waves. As we withdraw form the high of the affair we will be in pain. It is painful to face this..but we muct. It is the choice we make if we want to get through it and commit to our marriages.

 

Anyways...I feel better today. Logic once again is in control of this ship.

 

 

DI, so glad you are feeling better. I had the exact same experience Thursday morning. My H was still asleep when I awoke extremely sad. He has witnessed me sad due to missing my xMOM but that was over 5 weeks ago. I did not want him to see me grieving, it was awful. All I could do was go to the bathroom and cry, tears now. My trigger, it was the date in which our A became physical. I try to forget about him and redirect my thoughts, but we had such a special R. I love my H dearly and he is awesome. I desperately want to feel for my H like I did for my xMOM, something I had never felt before. Looking forward to IC this week. Hang in there.

[Devil Inside]

So had a session after two weeks...which may have been a good break. Recently I have been feeling a lot better as far as missing my xAP. I think of her much less, and when I do it is not as intense. In some ways it is hard for me to let her go...but I am glad that it is happening...slowly but surely.

 

Recently I have been feeling numbness and anger. Not attractive emotions. They are also very triggering to my W...especially the numbness. When I get like that she fears I am disengaging from her and the marriage. So she confronts me on this...and I get angry for not being given the space to take a break from emotions. I know...crazy little dance. Anyways...my therapist thinks that this is my being overwhelmed by the task of putting my marriage back together.

 

The way he sees it..and I have to agree...is that in many ways when we first got married I resented the situation. I married her because she was pregnant..I was doing the right thing....but, in hindsight, I bit off more than I could chew. He said that because I felt"noble" I did not allow myself to resent her overtly. However, I did it covertly by disengaging. I disengaged form the marriage...I neglected her. So she found other avenues in which to find meaning. She poured herself into motherhood. She poured herself into her hobbies and passions. She had an affair. Then...I feel her disengaged. I feel neglected. So I go out and have my affair.

 

He says the trick now is to create a new relationship...because the old one was broken and dysfunctional. He says that this overwhelms me and so I get numb.

 

Not a bad theory.

[ADF]

Based on your self-description, you sound like a predatory narccissist. You cheat to boost your ego. You target women who are emotionally damaged--i.e. easy prey. Then you make them emtionally dependent on you, make them feel like they need you. You are the kind of man parents have nightmares about, the kind of man who can destroy a woman's self-esteem for years if not permanently. Wow. Please, please don't date until you've had lots more therapy.

[Devil Inside]

Based on your self-description, you sound like a predatory narccissist. You cheat to boost your ego. You target women who are emotionally damaged--i.e. easy prey. Then you make them emtionally dependent on you, make them feel like they need you. You are the kind of man parents have nightmares about, the kind of man who can destroy a woman's self-esteem for years if not permanently. Wow. Please, please don't date until you've had lots more therapy.

 

ADF...are you basing this "diagnosis" on just the above post...or on a base of other things I have written?

 

I do see some of the patterns that you speak about...however...I would venture to guess that many people do things to boost their ego...it's called a defense mechanism...and it not only boosts ego...but protects from painful emotions and core issues.

 

However...I have considered that I am a narcissist...so you are not too far off.

[ladydesigner]

He says the trick now is to create a new relationship...because the old one was broken and dysfunctional.

 

Thanks for this DI I am going to apply this theory to my own marriage. It really makes sense. I haven't seen any of your posts lately and am glad you are back. Seems like you are moving forward patiently. An OW recently contacted me through a fake email and let me know my H was having an A with her. I think it may be the same woman from before and maybe his A never ceased. A recent D-Day for us and I am so angered by it this time. Last time I was so disgusted I embarked on my own A which ended badly as you know. Your above statement would really apply to my situation as I am not ready to end my marriage yet but it is so dysfunctional that I am unable to move forward. Wish I could start over again.

[NowhereToHide]

Based on your self-description, you sound like a predatory narccissist. You cheat to boost your ego. You target women who are emotionally damaged--i.e. easy prey. Then you make them emtionally dependent on you, make them feel like they need you. You are the kind of man parents have nightmares about, the kind of man who can destroy a woman's self-esteem for years if not permanently. Wow. Please, please don't date until you've had lots more therapy.

 

 

Wow ADF... I've read several of your posts and to date you have called posters, "dense", "stupid", and asked of another, "Do you have rocks in your head?".

 

You have taken it upon yourself to teach posters theories in biology and for others explaining the proper use of prepositions when posting.

 

You sound like a condescending know-it-all that enjoys putting people down to make yourself feel better. You sound just like my father -- Oh Wait! My father IS a narcissist! Maybe your diagnosis comes from experience?

[NoIDidn't]

So had a session after two weeks...which may have been a good break. Recently I have been feeling a lot better as far as missing my xAP. I think of her much less, and when I do it is not as intense. In some ways it is hard for me to let her go...but I am glad that it is happening...slowly but surely.

 

Recently I have been feeling numbness and anger. Not attractive emotions. They are also very triggering to my W...especially the numbness. When I get like that she fears I am disengaging from her and the marriage. So she confronts me on this...and I get angry for not being given the space to take a break from emotions. I know...crazy little dance. Anyways...my therapist thinks that this is my being overwhelmed by the task of putting my marriage back together.

 

The way he sees it..and I have to agree...is that in many ways when we first got married I resented the situation. I married her because she was pregnant..I was doing the right thing....but, in hindsight, I bit off more than I could chew. He said that because I felt"noble" I did not allow myself to resent her overtly. However, I did it covertly by disengaging. I disengaged form the marriage...I neglected her. So she found other avenues in which to find meaning. She poured herself into motherhood. She poured herself into her hobbies and passions. She had an affair. Then...I feel her disengaged. I feel neglected. So I go out and have my affair.

 

He says the trick now is to create a new relationship...because the old one was broken and dysfunctional. He says that this overwhelms me and so I get numb.

 

Not a bad theory.

 

I like your therapist. Sounds like you picked a winner.

[tami-chan]

ADF, so what's your story? I bet you won't tell....because it is a lot easier to mete out unwarranted, unsubstantiated opinions, conclusions, and judgments when nobody knows your story. Cowardice is not a virtue.

[Blindsidedagainalive]

"A year and a half back she was having a hard time feeling connected to me and we both did IC after that. That was when she really seemed more confident and mature."

 

I think your wife was having an affair.

I mean post discovery of the EA.....,which could have been a PA.

 

Think about it....most cheaters lie about affairs...even through councelling. If you do not have proof there was no PA, how did you confirm it.....? How do you know that the affair did not continue after discovery.

 

I believe the most telling sign is a change in her attitude and behavior.

 

Confidence and maturity would be barely detectable unless she was in years and years of therapy. It takes tremendous effort to change, and an hour a week will not show so quickly.

However, when having an affair, a woman will often seem more happy and confident.

That was the BIGGEST sign of my WW's affair....a change in her attitude. For the first time in her life, she would disagree with me, and be a little more cocky than previously.

 

Sorry to bring this to your attention, but I really think you should consider this possiblity strongly.

[NoIDidn't]

"A year and a half back she was having a hard time feeling connected to me and we both did IC after that. That was when she really seemed more confident and mature."

 

I think your wife was having an affair.

I mean post discovery of the EA.....,which could have been a PA.

 

Think about it....most cheaters lie about affairs...even through councelling. If you do not have proof there was no PA, how did you confirm it.....? How do you know that the affair did not continue after discovery.

 

I believe the most telling sign is a change in her attitude and behavior.

 

Confidence and maturity would be barely detectable unless she was in years and years of therapy. It takes tremendous effort to change, and an hour a week will not show so quickly.

However, when having an affair, a woman will often seem more happy and confident.

That was the BIGGEST sign of my WW's affair....a change in her attitude. For the first time in her life, she would disagree with me, and be a little more cocky than previously.

 

Sorry to bring this to your attention, but I really think you should consider this possiblity strongly.

 

His W did admit to affairs. You should probably read from the beginning of the thread or look for the rest of DI's posts. Its all covered in them.

 

I have to say though, that I agree AND disagree with your assertion that change can't happen via therapy for less than "years and years". I did it in a year and never cheated. I just confronted some demons that had been dogging me for years and years.

 

It seems that your W actually disagreeing with you was a *shock* to you. Why so? Why couldn't she just have developed a backbone instead of having an affair?

 

Anyway, enough of this threadjack. I'd love to hear your explanation, but its probably best done in another thread instead of t/j-ing this one.