Inside The Mind of a Cheater

[MistyK]

It's funny, but I see a consistent theme among a lot of posts regarding saving marriages post-A:

 

1)You will be happiest if you stay in the M. Period.

2) Everything else (outside the M) is an illusion, false. And what's more, if you're unahppy, it's only because you have an immature view of long-term relationships.

3) Every marriage can be worked out, and should be.

 

Honestly, there are times when people just marry the wrong person. We make decisions in our 20's and 30's that affect the rest of our lives. IS that a great time in our lives to be making such a huge decision? Sometimes the spouse's true colors only show after the marriage and suddenly, things change, but people stay because they got "married". It does happen sometimes.

 

Personally, I never should have married my xH. It was a bad choice. So, what would have been the point in whacking our heads on the wall to prove it to ourselves what we already knew? The only way to fix a mistake is to fix it, not compund it or ignore it. So, I chose to divorce. For me, compunding it would have meant wasting more of our lives together and making it harder for the kids as they got older. I'm not saying this is everyone's scenario, but I just get so sick of these posts about how you can work out your marraige to anyone, regardless of the circumstances. Sometimes you can't, and sometimes it isn't even worth it to try. There are just times when people never should have married in the first place and aren't going to work out.

[NoIDidn't]

It's funny, but I see a consistent theme among a lot of posts regarding saving marriages post-A:

 

1)You will be happiest if you stay in the M. Period.

2) Everything else (outside the M) is an illusion, false. And what's more, if you're unahppy, it's only because you have an immature view of long-term relationships.

3) Every marriage can be worked out, and should be.

 

Honestly, there are times when people just marry the wrong person. We make decisions in our 20's and 30's that affect the rest of our lives. IS that a great time in our lives to be making such a huge decision? Sometimes the spouse's true colors only show after the marriage and suddenly, things change, but people stay because they got "married". It does happen sometimes.

 

Personally, I never should have married my xH. It was a bad choice. So, what would have been the point in whacking our heads on the wall to prove it to ourselves what we already knew? The only way to fix a mistake is to fix it, not compund it or ignore it. So, I chose to divorce. For me, compunding it would have meant wasting more of our lives together and making it harder for the kids as they got older. I'm not saying this is everyone's scenario, but I just get so sick of these posts about how you can work out your marraige to anyone, regardless of the circumstances. Sometimes you can't, and sometimes it isn't even worth it to try. There are just times when people never should have married in the first place and aren't going to work out.

 

I'm sure you are saying this because of my post, but it doesn't matter. Your "assessment" is incorrect. You mistake telling someone to actually put some real work into their marriage to see if it can be saved as telling them to "save" it.

 

There is a difference. Its sad that you can't see it.

 

People claim to work on a making a marriage better, but all they do is take up physical space. Staying is not the same as investing in the marriage. Its clear that you weren't invested in your marriage. Clear by the things you say about it and your H over and over again.

 

Some people should never have gotten married in the first place. A true statement. But to blame that on "marriage" is foolish. Some people just aren't relationship material. Some people want to get married for all the wrong reasons. But at the end of the day, even those people in those marriages can make a decision to do real work and see if their marriage is one that's worth keeping.

[NoIDidn't]

Oh, and Misty, I have to say that it has NOTHING to do with "Post-A". This would be the advice to save or work on a marriage period.

 

Infidelity is but one of MANY issues that people face in their marriages.

 

Again, its a shame that people can be so biased in their thinking as to rule all other considerations out.

[HisSweetThing]

It's funny, but I see a consistent theme among a lot of posts regarding saving marriages post-A:

 

1)You will be happiest if you stay in the M. Period.

2) Everything else (outside the M) is an illusion, false. And what's more, if you're unahppy, it's only because you have an immature view of long-term relationships.

3) Every marriage can be worked out, and should be.

 

Honestly, there are times when people just marry the wrong person. We make decisions in our 20's and 30's that affect the rest of our lives. IS that a great time in our lives to be making such a huge decision? Sometimes the spouse's true colors only show after the marriage and suddenly, things change, but people stay because they got "married". It does happen sometimes.

 

Personally, I never should have married my xH. It was a bad choice. So, what would have been the point in whacking our heads on the wall to prove it to ourselves what we already knew? The only way to fix a mistake is to fix it, not compund it or ignore it. So, I chose to divorce. For me, compunding it would have meant wasting more of our lives together and making it harder for the kids as they got older. I'm not saying this is everyone's scenario, but I just get so sick of these posts about how you can work out your marraige to anyone, regardless of the circumstances. Sometimes you can't, and sometimes it isn't even worth it to try. There are just times when people never should have married in the first place and aren't going to work out.

 

I agree with you. I married at the age of twenty. I thought I was making a smart choice at the time, but I was so wrong. The only thing really wrong with our relationship was the sexual chemistry - the attraction. But I had never experienced that with anyone. I didn't realize what I was capable of feeling. It is not something that can be fixed, no matter how hard I work on it. I made a bad choice.

[hopeful1980]

 

People claim to work on a making a marriage better, but all they do is take up physical space. Staying is not the same as investing in the marriage. Its clear that you weren't invested in your marriage. Clear by the things you say about it and your H over and over again.

 

Some people should never have gotten married in the first place. A true statement. But to blame that on "marriage" is foolish. Some people just aren't relationship material. Some people want to get married for all the wrong reasons. But at the end of the day, even those people in those marriages can make a decision to do real work and see if their marriage is one that's worth keeping.

 

I wish I could give you a high five.

[MistyK]

Oh, and Misty, I have to say that it has NOTHING to do with "Post-A". This would be the advice to save or work on a marriage period.

 

Infidelity is but one of MANY issues that people face in their marriages.

 

Again, its a shame that people can be so biased in their thinking as to rule all other considerations out.

 

SOME People. Sigh. No, my point is just that when you KNOW, know in your heart that it isn't going to work, why waste anymore of anyone's time? Life is preciously short and I personally never felt the need to have xH wait around and see if I'd want him back. If I wasn't sure, then that's sure enough to give him his freedom. I know I could have gone back to him at any point along the way. Hell, I could go back to him now (he's still open to it), but I didn't, and won't. My doubt was enough, and when removed from the guilt that made me want to stay, doubt is all there was.

 

People like to tell OW that the MM ought to be "sure" that he wants her, but the BW is supposed to accept him being "unsure" about the M? As a woman in either position, OW or BW, I can't imagine being ok with your loved one being "unsure" about you.

[MistyK]

 

People claim to work on a making a marriage better, but all they do is take up physical space. Staying is not the same as investing in the marriage.

 

Right. And since I wasn't willing to do all that, I left. It's better than being vacantly present. We had gone to MC before we got married. nothing changed, as far i was concerned by the end, we'd already exhausted all we could do. Could we have gone back? Probably, but I didn't have the will to keep fighting for it anymore.

 

Its clear that you weren't invested in your marriage. Clear by the things you say about it and your H over and over again.

 

MY gut instint is to take that as a shot, an implication that I have some real willy-nilly ideas about marriage. You'd be wrong in that assumption, if that's what you're implying.

 

I was invested for 12 years, but it turned out that I made a bad investment. At some point, you realize that you're in the hardware store looking for bread, having gone up and down the aisles for a long time and say, "you know, this is stupid, I never should have come in here, I'm going to find a grocery store." That says nothing depricating about the institution of marriage. Marriage is great and fine and wonderful, if it's real, going through the motions is something else all together.

[PhoenixRise]

It's funny, but I see a consistent theme among a lot of posts regarding saving marriages post-A:

 

1)You will be happiest if you stay in the M. Period.

2) Everything else (outside the M) is an illusion, false. And what's more, if you're unahppy, it's only because you have an immature view of long-term relationships.

3) Every marriage can be worked out, and should be.

 

Honestly, there are times when people just marry the wrong person. We make decisions in our 20's and 30's that affect the rest of our lives. IS that a great time in our lives to be making such a huge decision? Sometimes the spouse's true colors only show after the marriage and suddenly, things change, but people stay because they got "married". It does happen sometimes.

 

Personally, I never should have married my xH. It was a bad choice. So, what would have been the point in whacking our heads on the wall to prove it to ourselves what we already knew? The only way to fix a mistake is to fix it, not compund it or ignore it. So, I chose to divorce. For me, compunding it would have meant wasting more of our lives together and making it harder for the kids as they got older. I'm not saying this is everyone's scenario, but I just get so sick of these posts about how you can work out your marraige to anyone, regardless of the circumstances. Sometimes you can't, and sometimes it isn't even worth it to try. There are just times when people never should have married in the first place and aren't going to work out.

 

 

I was just thinking that I have seen a lot of the opposit.

 

1. The marriage is dead or your wouldn't have cheated

2. Once passion is gone it is impossible to recapture.

3. Staying in the marriage = settling

4. Better to skip off into the sunset with the OW because deep down you know that is who you really truly love.

5. MM who stay in marriages do so only because of guilt and obligation and a dedication to history.

 

I guess what you see and notice depends to some extent on what side of the triangle you were on.

 

I don't think that all marriages should or even can be saved. I don't think that happiness is only found in the restoration of the marriage.

 

I think that affairs can vary. In some cases the relationship and the emotions in it are based in reality. I think those are the cases most likely to end in a divorce for the MP and an open relationship for the former AP's.

 

BUT I also think that in many cases the the affair relationship and the emotions that go along with it grow and thrive in an environment that is not based in reality. Not saying that APs don't truly feel what they feel, but those feelings are not based in the day to day reality of everyday life.

 

If you take one relationship where you face; the highs and lows of life, bills, children, mortgage payments, infirm parents living in, job losses, promotions, stillbirths, etc.

 

And then you have another relationship where the vast majority of your highs and lows have strictly to do with the relationship and the emotions generated by the relationship. None of the rest of life factors in.

 

If married couples could create a bubble where the only thing they ever had to focus on was the spouse then they too could feel amazing chemistry, incredible passion, and undeniable chemistry every single day too.

 

Having said this, I do agree with Misty in that sometimes people do just marry the wrong person for the wrong reason.

But if you have someone who has chosen to work on the marriage, I think it is good support to remind them to actually do the work and not just take up space in the marital home waiting for their self imposed deadline to expire so they can leave being able to tell themself they tried.

Edited October 5, 2009 by PhoenixRise

[MistyK]

QUOTE=PhoenixRise;2420973]I was just thinking that I have seen a lot of the opposit.

 

1. The marriage is dead or your wouldn't have cheated

2. Once passion is gone it is impossible to recapture.

3. Staying in the marriage = settling

4. Better to skip off into the sunset with the OW because deep down you know that is who you really truly love.

5. MM who stay in marriages do so only because of guilt and obligation and a dedication to history.

 

You're right there is a lot of that too. I stand by the belief in #2, I don't believe it's possible to go backwards. One can perhaps stoke a little fire back into a big one, but not a fire that's had water thrown on it and is totally gone. And I hate to say, but I believe #5 happens a lot, not always, but plenty.

 

BUT I also think that in many cases the the affair relationship and the emotions that go along with it grow and thrive in an environment that is not based in reality. Not saying that APs don't truly feel what they feel, but those feelings are not based in the day to day reality of everyday life.

 

Honestly I think that depends on the A too. The way things worked for us involved lots of daily reality stuff,.

 

Having said this, I do agree with Misty in that sometimes people do just marry the wrong person for the wrong reason.

But if you have someone who has chosen to work on the marriage, I think it is good support to remind them to actually do the work and not just take up space in the marital home waiting for their self imposed deadline to expire so they can leave being able to tell themself they tried.

 

I agree. Just saying that its worth reexamining why you aren't willing to get in the game if you find yourself occupying space.

[PhoenixRise]

QUOTE=PhoenixRise;2420973]I was just thinking that I have seen a lot of the opposit.

 

1. The marriage is dead or your wouldn't have cheated

2. Once passion is gone it is impossible to recapture.

3. Staying in the marriage = settling

4. Better to skip off into the sunset with the OW because deep down you know that is who you really truly love.

5. MM who stay in marriages do so only because of guilt and obligation and a dedication to history.

 

You're right there is a lot of that too. I stand by the belief in #2, I don't believe it's possible to go backwards. One can perhaps stoke a little fire back into a big one, but not a fire that's had water thrown on it and is totally gone. And I hate to say, but I believe #5 happens a lot, not always, but plenty.

 

I would never want to go backwards and I don't think any spouses who are recovering a m want to either. If there is NOTHING left then leave. But if both parties still believe that a future can be built and they both want to explore that possibilitiy with all card on the table then who can say they are wrong to give themselves that opportunity.

 

AND yes #5 does happen, but I don't believe it happens a lot. I don't believe that there are leigons of WS who agree to live out the rest of their lives with a spouse they feel only guilt for. Again, I guess ones perspective on this depends on what side of the triangle you are on.

 

Honestly I think that depends on the A too. The way things worked for us involved lots of daily reality stuff,.

 

I am sure this is true Misty. I would also be willing to bet that there are many aspects of his life that he could not share with you due to the secret nature of the affair. You loved each other...I am sure he told you things about his life. But because he was keeping you a secret I would bet there are things you didn't get to experience first hand in his life.

 

I agree. Just saying that its worth reexamining why you aren't willing to get in the game if you find yourself occupying space.

 

 

To me your last statment depends a lot on the time frame. If you are a few months after dday and you don't have your bearings back yet and are not completely back in the game yet it is somewhat understandable. Betrayal can knock you off your feet and it may take time to get it back together no matter what side of triangle you are on. But if you are a year past dday and you are still just taking up space, then that is a completely different story.

[NoIDidn't]

SOME People. Sigh. No, my point is just that when you KNOW, know in your heart that it isn't going to work, why waste anymore of anyone's time? Life is preciously short and I personally never felt the need to have xH wait around and see if I'd want him back. If I wasn't sure, then that's sure enough to give him his freedom. I know I could have gone back to him at any point along the way. Hell, I could go back to him now (he's still open to it), but I didn't, and won't. My doubt was enough, and when removed from the guilt that made me want to stay, doubt is all there was.

 

People like to tell OW that the MM ought to be "sure" that he wants her, but the BW is supposed to accept him being "unsure" about the M? As a woman in either position, OW or BW, I can't imagine being ok with your loved one being "unsure" about you.

 

Am I frustrating you? LOL. "Some people". LOL. Where are the rolling eyes?

 

Anyway, I think you miss my point. I was simply saying do the work if you say you are "working" on the marriage. If you have given up, then leave. It really is that simple. But I don't see the point of claiming to work on the marriage when all you are doing is waiting until a certain date to say that things didn't work out.

 

And to answer your question, yes. Yes, the BS is to accept that the WS is "unsure" about the M? Everyone has these feelings sometimes in a marriage or other long-term relationship. Sure, its uncomfortable and does a number on your confidence, but if its a period that must be gone through, then go through it. It doesn't mean that the marriage (or other relationship) can be saved. But it does mean that the parties involved didn't make rash decisions to just skip the awkwardness of being "unsure".

 

If more people went through the "unsure" stage before they got married, there would probably be a lower divorce rate. I once read a quote somewhere that said something to the effect of "if you start with certainties you will end with doubts, and if you start with doubts, you will end with certainties." I remember reading this before I got married and it gave me pause. Don't take this to mean that I am now certain, it just was something to consider. It allowed me to be able to say it was okay to not be completely sure that we would be "happily ever after".

 

Right. And since I wasn't willing to do all that, I left. It's better than being vacantly present. We had gone to MC before we got married. nothing changed, as far i was concerned by the end, we'd already exhausted all we could do. Could we have gone back? Probably, but I didn't have the will to keep fighting for it anymore.

 

 

MY gut instint is to take that as a shot, an implication that I have some real willy-nilly ideas about marriage. You'd be wrong in that assumption, if that's what you're implying.

 

Huh? For stating the obvious, I'm accused by your gut of taking a shot at you? LOL. It seems you are still looking for offense when there is none. You have stated over and over again that your marriage wasn't salvageable. You have stated that you left it while in an A. Its obvious that you were no longer invested in the M, but invested in your A. Be honest with yourself, if no one else.

 

I have no need to take a shot a you. You were not invested in your M, plain and simple. And people not invested in something aren't exactly going to attempt to resuscitate it when they see it dying.

 

 

I was invested for 12 years, but it turned out that I made a bad investment. At some point, you realize that you're in the hardware store looking for bread, having gone up and down the aisles for a long time and say, "you know, this is stupid, I never should have come in here, I'm going to find a grocery store." That says nothing depricating about the institution of marriage. Marriage is great and fine and wonderful, if it's real, going through the motions is something else all together.

 

I agree with this. And this is where I think you are missing my point. This is where Phoenix is right about seeing what you see based on your side of the triangle. You are seeing save the marriage at the expense of *happiness*. She got it right that I was saying do the work, don't just take up space. If DI does the work and things still aren't coming together, then yes, he should leave if he's made up his mind to do so.

 

Marriage is not a prison sentence. Divorce is an option when things truly don't work. But to basically just bide one's time until a certain date passes is disingenuous.

 

I certainly accept that not all marriages last forever. But exempting serious abuse or other truly unacceptable behavior (like continued cheating without regard for the effects on the betrayed in the case of infidelity), I think that a real attempt to save a marriage should be made until its clear that one of the parties isn't interested in doing so anymore.

[NoIDidn't]

Do I know how to kill a thread, or what?!

 

Or did the parties just take it to PM?

 

LOL

[MistyK]

There is a difference between a M that is "dying" and one that is "dead". My "lack of investment" as you referred to it was certainly a factor, but it was in large part caused by the fact that my M was DEAD. It was part of accepting what was at the time.

 

I certainly accept that not all marriages last forever. But exempting serious abuse or other truly unacceptable behavior (like continued cheating without regard for the effects on the betrayed in the case of infidelity), I think that a real attempt to save a marriage should be made until its clear that one of the parties isn't interested in doing so anymore.

 

That's the point - if you aren't clearly interested, why bother? Why waste everyones time and emotional energy? I wasn't going to make my xH wait around while I decided if it was worth it, I let him go while I figured it out. You say one shouldn't just occupy space. I agree. If you aren't sure, go sit on a mountain or whatever you have to do - I just don't think a WS should waste either the BS or the OP's time when they're trying to decide. You're either in or out. If you can't decide, you can at least be authentic - be neither until you can decide.

[NoIDidn't]

Funny that you took my "dying" metaphor literally. Anything to find offense or give you the excuse for a snappy retort. LOL.

 

That's the point - if you aren't clearly interested, why bother? Why waste everyones time and emotional energy? I wasn't going to make my xH wait around while I decided if it was worth it, I let him go while I figured it out. You say one shouldn't just occupy space. I agree. If you aren't sure, go sit on a mountain or whatever you have to do - I just don't think a WS should waste either the BS or the OP's time when they're trying to decide. You're either in or out. If you can't decide, you can at least be authentic - be neither until you can decide.

 

 

I don't disagree with your "why bother" point. And it is also mine. But it isn't truly "wasting the time" of the BS when you are already married to them to decide if you want the marriage or not. They are also free to decide if they want to wait around to find out your answer.

 

My points aren't about people who have already given up, as you state that you did. You gave up, nothing to save. But DI hasn't given up yet. He's not sure what he wants. I see nothing wrong with him being honest with his W and telling her that. I see nothing wrong with her deciding that she's not going to wait around for his answer.

 

I am trying hard not to "judge" your situation, because I don't know you or it. But the more you post your rationale, the more it seems like you are talking to yourself than to anyone else.

[MistyK]

NID, I'm really not sure why you feel the need to goad me all the time. I'm not going to play anymore. Call me defensive, whatever, but I'm exceedingly weary of your nasty little jabs.

[NoIDidn't]

NID, I'm really not sure why you feel the need to goad me all the time. I'm not going to play anymore. Call me defensive, whatever, but I'm exceedingly weary of your nasty little jabs.

 

As I am with yours, that's why I call you on them.

 

I wasn't "jabbing" you at all. I'm not the only one that sees how defensive you have been in your responses.

 

Feel free to place me on Ignore. I'm not going to temper my responses because they might trigger you.

[Devil Inside]

My points aren't about people who have already given up, as you state that you did. You gave up, nothing to save. But DI hasn't given up yet. He's not sure what he wants. I see nothing wrong with him being honest with his W and telling her that. I see nothing wrong with her deciding that she's not going to wait around for his answer.

 

 

This is exactly what is going on. I don't know what I want. I have committed a year to this process. My wife knows..and she has said she will stay for now to see this through.

 

Now you two need to learn how to play nice..or I will have to kick you out of my mind :laugh:

[NoIDidn't]

This is exactly what is going on. I don't know what I want. I have committed a year to this process. My wife knows..and she has said she will stay for now to see this through.

 

 

You sound a lot like my H did after his EA. And it still stings to remember his indecision. I had my own "Expiration Date" for our marriage if he couldn't make up his mind. Like in your situation, OW was completely out of the picture - this was about us. Period.

 

The same things that I have said to you in this thread, I said to him. I told him if he was just biding his time, he could just leave now. I told him if he was only staying for the kids, he could leave too - I would never keep him and them apart (I had that done to me and it wasn't pleasant). We had long and lengthy conversations of what we both wanted from our marriage and family. We didn't always agree but we were starting to understand each other. And we did all this BEFORE we went to MC. I was totally prepared to use MC as an exit tool, if it needed to be.

 

I honestly think my H was leaning more towards being out than being in the marriage. I don't know what changed his mind. I left him alone (emotionally) to work this out for himself and with his IC. And his IC was definitely NOT on my side. LOL. Even though he was a minister and a widow. We had one session together with his IC before starting MC (with another counsellor). I was told that we had an ailing marriage and he didn't know if it could be saved. He said that my H was clearly wiped out emotionally. And that he wished us luck.

 

So, I think I know where you are DI. And it was painful for me to watch the man I loved go through it too. Not just because it was partly deciding my fate (I still had a say in that part), but because he was really anguished about it. It really seemed like watching his life scroll in front of him in slow motion with painful detail.

 

I do not envy you, but do wish you luck and peace.

[MistyK]

The annoying thing NID is that I don't disagree with you...people shouldn't just occupy space. All I am trying to say is that sometimes indecision can simply be a mask for fear of leaving when you know you must. All I am suggesting that is DI may want to examine if his indecision is really indecision, or is it just fear of acting on a decision. If it's truly indecision and his W wants to wait and see what happens, more power to them, and I wish him the best of luck. If it's just fear, I would instead encourage him to try to work thorugh it so as to not waste any more of their lives.

[NoIDidn't]

The annoying thing NID is that I don't disagree with you...people shouldn't just occupy space. All I am trying to say is that sometimes indecision can simply be a mask for fear of leaving when you know you must. All I am suggesting that is DI may want to examine if his indecision is really indecision, or is it just fear of acting on a decision. If it's truly indecision and his W wants to wait and see what happens, more power to them, and I wish him the best of luck. If it's just fear, I would instead encourage him to try to work thorugh it so as to not waste any more of their lives.

 

LOL. I'm not annoyed by agreeing with you at all. LOL.

 

I also agree with the part I bolded.

 

But there is a way to figure out if its a mask of fear or not: get out of dodge for a bit. Away from all of it for at least two weeks. My H did that. I encouraged him to do it, because I needed it too.

 

I am definitely not saying that DI's sitch mirrors mine. I've just seen this before. I was almost as undecided as my H was. My decision was to sit and wait until he made a decision. At first, even I didn't want to work on it. I felt he needed to be the one doing the work. It was when I started to work on our M that I realized that I was hoping that any decision made for or against our marriage was made by him. I dreaded the thought that I would be forced to actually decide at the end of my time period too.

 

There is fear on both sides of this for them. I just hope that they don't let the fear paralyze them into doing nothing to help their marriage.

 

Its likely that we both agree, just have different ways of saying it.

[MistyK]

But there is a way to figure out if its a mask of fear or not: get out of dodge for a bit. Away from all of it for at least two weeks. My H did that. I encouraged him to do it, because I needed it too.

 

Yes, I think this is a great idea. Albeit against my will, I was "alone" for a long time after I seperated from my xH, but in retrospect, I am glad I had that time. I became sure that I was making the right decision and that it wasn't completely tied up in just wanting to be with fMM.

 

It was when I started to work on our M that I realized that I was hoping that any decision made for or against our marriage was made by him. I dreaded the thought that I would be forced to actually decide at the end of my time period too.

 

Interesting observation.

 

 

Its likely that we both agree, just have different ways of saying it.

 

Yes, I think so.

[Devil Inside]

See how nice you two can be.

 

I agree completely by the way. I am trying to figure out if my indecision is really fear of what divorce would mean.

 

I go back and forth. There are says where I feel like I would be the biggest fool to leave my wife, and that she is the best thing that ever happened to me...and in so many ways she is.

 

Then I have days where I think back to all that we have done to each other. I think to the feelings I had for my xOW. I think that if I can't feel that for my W then it isn't right...and I worry that I am not going to be happy.

 

It is a mess. My IC says I am not ready to make a decision...of course I am paying him while undecided so he would say that...lol. No, I actually agree.

 

Thank you for your perspectives ladies...they really do help.

[Fallen Angel]

i haven't sat down and read this whole thread yet, but since i don't work tomorrow i plan to do exactly that tonight.

 

I know that you are seeking answers as to what exactly prompted you to begin your A, and stay in it. And as you are trying to "fix" yourself, I think the key to "fixing" what is broken is understanding how you are NOT broken, and what desires and needs you have that make you NORMAL rather than broken.

 

I came across a blog about femininity and in it a book about "Fascinating Womanhood" ... I know, weird huh? Anyway, i started reading it, and at first was laughing at the things it was telling women to do to "nurture a feeling of deep love, for them, in their man". But after reading for awhile (It is poorly written and somewhat humorous at times) i started to get it. The books aim is to teach women how to make a man love them, and it points out the things men NEED in order to feel love for a woman.

 

Like I said, at first i thought it rediculous, BUT, and this is a big but, I realized that while I don't use the words and phrases that they suggest, I do "feed the needs" of my MM the way that they say a woman should. I find that I treat my MM very much like they suggest a woman treat her SO (which is a LOT different from how I treated my xH).

 

I think perhaps by reading the book you might better understand how it was that you fell in love with your xOW, and what needs of yours she met. Needs that, I again want to point out, seem to be fairly universal to the male of our species. I think you may be less broken than you think. I think maybe once you are able to put your needs into words you will be better able to have them met by your W.

 

But I could be totally wrong too.. lol.. it has been known to happen!

 

Anyway, just a thought... you can go here to download the free book.. http://theartofbeingfeminine.blogspot.com/2009/07/secrets-of-fascinating-womanhood-free.html

 

it is a PDF file.

 

Again, sorry for jumping into your thread with this, but I do not have mail privileges yet.

[Devil Inside]

i haven't sat down and read this whole thread yet, but since i don't work tomorrow i plan to do exactly that tonight.

 

I know that you are seeking answers as to what exactly prompted you to begin your A, and stay in it. And as you are trying to "fix" yourself, I think the key to "fixing" what is broken is understanding how you are NOT broken, and what desires and needs you have that make you NORMAL rather than broken.

 

I came across a blog about femininity and in it a book about "Fascinating Womanhood" ... I know, weird huh? Anyway, i started reading it, and at first was laughing at the things it was telling women to do to "nurture a feeling of deep love, for them, in their man". But after reading for awhile (It is poorly written and somewhat humorous at times) i started to get it. The books aim is to teach women how to make a man love them, and it points out the things men NEED in order to feel love for a woman.

 

Like I said, at first i thought it rediculous, BUT, and this is a big but, I realized that while I don't use the words and phrases that they suggest, I do "feed the needs" of my MM the way that they say a woman should. I find that I treat my MM very much like they suggest a woman treat her SO (which is a LOT different from how I treated my xH).

 

I think perhaps by reading the book you might better understand how it was that you fell in love with your xOW, and what needs of yours she met. Needs that, I again want to point out, seem to be fairly universal to the male of our species. I think you may be less broken than you think. I think maybe once you are able to put your needs into words you will be better able to have them met by your W.

 

But I could be totally wrong too.. lol.. it has been known to happen!

 

Anyway, just a thought... you can go here to download the free book.. http://theartofbeingfeminine.blogspot.com/2009/07/secrets-of-fascinating-womanhood-free.html

 

it is a PDF file.

 

Again, sorry for jumping into your thread with this, but I do not have mail privileges yet.

 

Hey thanks for stopping by. I will go download that and take a look. I like what you say about looking at the parts that aren't broken...I think I tend to to linger in the role of the wounded soul.

[Devil Inside]

I wanted to write about something that happened in therapy today. It may be useful to some people out there..hopefully..but maybe not.

 

So last night I had a wave of sadness hit me. I was missing my xOW. Why? Well for starters...because I have issues and I choose to keep things going..but in a more practical sense...triggers. I had surgery on Monday and felt pphysically vulnerable, I have been on here writing about her, posting a song about her, and etc... It is just not helping..and in fact it is a choice I am making to do this...which is a way of keeping her in my heart...so I need to make the difficult choice and stop. Most of the time LS helps...I advice others...I get good support and advice...but lately I have been indulgent in the fantasy of the affair..and I need to stop that...I need to make better choice.

 

Anyways...so I was sad. It was to the point that you could read in my face that I was sad. I did not want my wife to see me like this. She would ask what was wrong and I would either have to lie or tell her...either option sounded crappy. So I made the unselfish choice to go into the bathroom, splash some water on my face, and make the choice to put on a non sad face for bed. My wife did not know I was sad. After she fell asleep I cam down and posted about being sad. Then I sat back and allowe myself to feel it. I did not try to contact her. I did not try to talk to my wife and involve her in my emotions. I made the difficult choice and sat with it. Guess what...it passed.

 

So I brought this up with my therapist today. He told me that this was the best I have done with these emotions since we have been working together. He said I allowed myself to feel it. I did not drag my wife into it..and hurt her. I did not do something stupid like write xOW an email. I allowed myself to feel it...and like all emotions..waited until they were gone..because emotions are like that they come and go if we sit with them rather than avoid them and compund the situation.

 

He also told me. I will have to do this many more times. He told me that the powerful emotions and investment of the affair was not going to disappear. He said that I should expect to have these waves or pangs of emotions...and learn to get through them. He said I need to "innoculate" myself to them. That if I expect I won't have them..I am lying to myself and will fail. That I shoud be prepared..and feel them...but don't act. No need for the drama basically.

 

I think this is important for others to hear. If you were very attached and invested in the affair...it will take time to not miss it. It will take time to not have a wave of emotion. This is important for BSs to hear to. If your WS is really going to work through their emotions...they have to acknowledge them. However...there is no need to act on these waves. As we withdraw form the high of the affair we will be in pain. It is painful to face this..but we muct. It is the choice we make if we want to get through it and commit to our marriages.

 

Anyways...I feel better today. Logic once again is in control of this ship.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Devil Inside