Inside The Mind of a Cheater

[drmcdreamy]

I just don't know. How do you heal from an affair and also be there to help your spouse heal from the one you had at the same time?

 

DI - I can't help you there - I'm sorry! But I wanted to tell you that you've helped me a lot. I still haven't told my W of my A - I think I never will, and I know some/many think that's wrong. But, I did go NC with the OW 3 weeks ago, and I am already so much better off now. I still think of her, still wonder what I would say if she asked for contact again (I know my answer would be 'no' - but would I leave it at that, or say other things that run through my mind at times?), but the feelings are so much better and getting a lot clearer. I really needed this. You gave me the guts. I feel healthier emotionally than I have in a long time.

[MistyK]

This makes me feel like she would rather keep living in the world of illusion. Where we front having this great marriage and then fulfill our childish and selfish needs for attention in the fantasy outlets of infidelity.

 

It also creeps me out because I know how much I wrestled with my own integrity over disclosing my affair. In the end I did tell her...and I felt like this was the only way I could have any integrity and believe in myself as a decent person one day. I believe this, feel this...and then she goes and says she never wanted it to come out...what does that say about her integrity?

 

What does that say indeed. In fact, look at her actions - she had an EA you knew about, swore she'd never do it again, then proceeded to do just that, multiple times, and had a PA. What does THAT say about her integrity? Serial cheater. Period. You on the other hand - I don't think you are. I think you learned your lesson.

 

Think deeply about this - if you were not wrestling with the guilt of your affair, knowing what you know now, would you still be interested in working this out with her? What is really motivating you at this point?

[Devil Inside]

 

I would like to ask you a question (and I'm sorry if it is a tough one to answer). During these trying times with your wife do you find yourself thinking about your xOW more? I know when things start getting rough between my H and I that I tend to start thinking about xOM again.

 

Sometimes yes...and sometimes no...I know great answer huh...lol.

 

I think that when the hurt is coming more from a place of guilt...from feeling bad for what I have done to her...then I am there and all present with her.

 

When I feel hurt for what she had done to me..then yes...a part of me starts to think...I stayed, I let her go, and all this time you had been cheating. It may not be rational...but it is what it is.

 

When I find I think about xOW most is when I feel lonely. I also think of her when triggered...by music or in the car. However, more and more as of late she is not on my mind as much. She will probably always be in my mind and heart to some extent...but I am starting to feel more now..and she is not as much a part of that.

[Devil Inside]

DI - I can't help you there - I'm sorry! But I wanted to tell you that you've helped me a lot. I still haven't told my W of my A - I think I never will, and I know some/many think that's wrong. But, I did go NC with the OW 3 weeks ago, and I am already so much better off now. I still think of her, still wonder what I would say if she asked for contact again (I know my answer would be 'no' - but would I leave it at that, or say other things that run through my mind at times?), but the feelings are so much better and getting a lot clearer. I really needed this. You gave me the guts. I feel healthier emotionally than I have in a long time.

 

Dreamy...I am so glad to hear you are feeling better. I am also proud of you for sticking through it.

 

Keep it up.

[Devil Inside]

What does that say indeed. In fact, look at her actions - she had an EA you knew about, swore she'd never do it again, then proceeded to do just that, multiple times, and had a PA. What does THAT say about her integrity? Serial cheater. Period. You on the other hand - I don't think you are. I think you learned your lesson.

 

Think deeply about this - if you were not wrestling with the guilt of your affair, knowing what you know now, would you still be interested in working this out with her? What is really motivating you at this point?

 

You bring up some valid and painful points Misty.

 

Just for clarifications sake...when I found out about the EA she had already had the PA and other EAs...so she lied then. According to her...her EAs were mostly short term (like a week or two) where she would create a fake persona and get them to say they had feelings then she would disappear. She saw it as a game almost. About a year and a half ago she went to inidividual therapy to work on this issue...and says that was the last time she ever did anything like that again. She said that she worked on her and that her esteem is better and she knows she doesn't need the validation...and that she doesn't want to lose me.

 

Not that this doesn't make her a serial cheater...but just to clarify.

 

So to your question...ahhh man...it's a tough one. So if I had not had an A and I knew all this now? Well I think that I would give it one more good shot in therapy...if she seemed like she really wanted us to work, and was willing to put in some work.

 

As to what is motivating me. Honestly. My kids. I love them so much. I want to be an everyday daddy for them. They are just babies...4 and 8. They need me...and I need them. I do have love for my wife...and if there is a chance I want it.

 

However...kids out of the equation and current knowledge on the table...I don't know if there would be enough motiviation to stick it out for long.

[NoIDidn't]

You bring up some valid and painful points Misty.

 

Just for clarifications sake...when I found out about the EA she had already had the PA and other EAs...so she lied then. According to her...her EAs were mostly short term (like a week or two) where she would create a fake persona and get them to say they had feelings then she would disappear. She saw it as a game almost. About a year and a half ago she went to inidividual therapy to work on this issue...and says that was the last time she ever did anything like that again. She said that she worked on her and that her esteem is better and she knows she doesn't need the validation...and that she doesn't want to lose me.

 

Not that this doesn't make her a serial cheater...but just to clarify.

 

So to your question...ahhh man...it's a tough one. So if I had not had an A and I knew all this now? Well I think that I would give it one more good shot in therapy...if she seemed like she really wanted us to work, and was willing to put in some work.

 

As to what is motivating me. Honestly. My kids. I love them so much. I want to be an everyday daddy for them. They are just babies...4 and 8. They need me...and I need them. I do have love for my wife...and if there is a chance I want it.

 

However...kids out of the equation and current knowledge on the table...I don't know if there would be enough motiviation to stick it out for long.

 

IDK, I think your W is being too hard on herself. I can't consider a two week flirtation an EA. I just can't. It seems like she needed the validation and then left the minute she got the guy to admit to deep or at least flattering feelings for her.

 

I know that doesn't make you feel any better, but I hardly think that makes her a serial cheat. It makes her a very needy individual, but not a serial cheat.

 

I do think it was pretty bad on her to lie about the previous PA. I can bet she was too afraid of the real consequences had she admitted that before. I really get the feeling that she told you the full truth because you told her the full truth. I truly feel that she felt she was helping you guys get a clean slate by dropping all that on you at one time.

 

And yet, I don't question her integrity for wishing "it never came out". I can imagine that she told you those things to relieve herself of the guilt of hiding it since her therapy and getting better, but didn't realize how much it really did hurt YOU and your marital relationship.

 

I'm not trying to defend her, just hoping to add some clarification. I have the curse of over-sharing too.

 

Sometimes we have to break things to decide whether or not their worth fixing and keeping. Its just my opinion, but this marriage sounds like its worth keeping (only based on my thoughts on her motivations and your very honest sharing here).

 

(((DI)))

 

This is the fight of your life (for now). I empathize.

[MistyK]

IDK' date=' I think your W is being too hard on herself. I can't consider a two week flirtation an EA. I just can't. It seems like she needed the validation and then left the minute she got the guy to admit to deep or at least flattering feelings for her. [/quote']

 

Whatever it is, it isn't good for a marriage. It involved lying, trying to get emotional involvement, at least from the OM, and the creation of a fake persona is frankly kinda scary. It sorta sounds not unlike what 2sure H was up to.

 

I know that doesn't make you feel any better, but I hardly think that makes her a serial cheat. It makes her a very needy individual, but not a serial cheat.

 

We know of one EA and one PA beyond the multiple random short fantasy flings...I think that's enough to make it serial.

 

I do think it was pretty bad on her to lie about the previous PA. I can bet she was too afraid of the real consequences had she admitted that before. I really get the feeling that she told you the full truth because you told her the full truth. I truly feel that she felt she was helping you guys get a clean slate by dropping all that on you at one time.

 

Fear of consequences isn't a good reason to withold and BS's wreak havoc on MM's here who try to argue that. She didn't tell the truth because she wanted to be forthcoming, she got caught. (as I recall from a recent post from DI).

[NoIDidn't]

Whatever it is, it isn't good for a marriage. It involved lying, trying to get emotional involvement, at least from the OM, and the creation of a fake persona is frankly kinda scary. It sorta sounds not unlike what 2sure H was up to.

 

But from what he's said, I don't get the impression that she went as far as to meet them. Sounds like she got the magic words and bounced.

 

We know of one EA and one PA beyond the multiple random short fantasy flings...I think that's enough to make it serial.

 

I chalk it up to differences of opinion. Its serial something, but hardly serial affairs, IMO.

 

 

 

Fear of consequences isn't a good reason to withold and BS's wreak havoc on MM's here who try to argue that. She didn't tell the truth because she wanted to be forthcoming, she got caught. (as I recall from a recent post from DI).

 

She didn't get caught, as far as the first time he mentioned her confessing the multiple EAs and the actual PA. She confessed when he confessed his. Are we reading the same posts? LOL. Maybe, I'm missing something.

 

I don't understand the rush (the feeling I get from many posts, not just yours) to condemn her and make DI some sort of victim. They both ignored their marriage. Neither is more innocent or more guilty than the other. From what I gather, they both had an active internet life for their "affairs". DI is in no position to wag a finger at her. He is in a position to decide what direction he wants to take with his life and marriage, though.

[MistyK]

I thought she confessed too based on what in this thread, but she didn't. Maybe you didn't see this - it was in another thread.

 

So I start working up the nerve to tell my W and lo and behold I find out...not from her..that the EA she had years ago was actually a PA once. Then I decide to disclose my A and I tell her what I found out and she confesses to a string of short term EAs.

[NoIDidn't]

I thought she confessed too based on what in this thread, but she didn't. Maybe you didn't see this - it was in another thread.

 

Ahhhh. Then we are not reading the same posts. I am missing information.

 

Somewhat of a different ballgame now, isn't it?

 

No wonder she didn't want it to come out. And yet, I still don't feel that anyone has the ability to wag their fingers at her. As a therapist, DI has to consider that she may have been acting under the advice of her therapist that since she no longer was doing those things, there was no need to tell him anymore.

 

But its still a different ballgame. He has a lot to consider. A lot.

[Devil Inside]

Had therapy today.

 

We talked about my ambivalence to staying married. I am having a difficult time with this and truly feel torn. The big conflict is staying with a woman I love and raising a family yet always feeling like something (passion) is missing or go look for passion and give up a relationship with a woman that I do love and change the lives of my children and myself...and risk it all for what may amount to chasing something that does not exist. I told my therapist that I feel horrible that I was able to love someone like I did my xOW...and that it made me question what my relationship with my W was really about...or how strong it was. He made some good points:

 

1. I have no idea what my relationship with xOW would have looked like if we had gone for it. It may have been great...maybe not. One thing is for sure...it would have been different then it was in the A because we would be in a different environment and have shared responsibilities. Either way...I don't know...but I have frozen what could have been into this state that represents what the A was like, and my W and M as the opposite...and it wasn't fair to do this.

 

2. When I do feel ambivalence that I should always remember to take point 1 into account. My view and vision of what the R would have been like with xOW is a big player in my ambivalence, and I need to ackowledge that when I feel that way.

 

3. That I will probably not know what I want for awhile. He asked me if it was worth the chance of me hanging in for a year...was it worth me having a loving and more passionate relationship with my W and being an everyday dad to stick around. He said if a year from now I don't feel different then at least I can say that I tried.

 

We also talked about how I feel that my W has not been upset..or has not been open to having a lot of discussion about what happened and what it means.

 

He said that he thinks that this may be me wanting to talk...but really not being ready to talk either. I think he is right...I want to talk, but I have no idea what I want to come from that...so maybe I am projecting my indecision and avoidance on to her and getting fristrated with her for this.

 

He also made another point that hit me hard. Maybe my ambivalence is really about me being afraid to be completely vulnerable because I am waiting for the other shoe to drop and my wife to decide that my infidelity is unforgivable. Could be.

[MistyK]

We talked about my ambivalence to staying married. I am having a difficult time with this and truly feel torn. The big conflict is staying with a woman I love and raising a family yet always feeling like something (passion) is missing or go look for passion and give up a relationship with a woman that I do love and change the lives of my children and myself...and risk it all for what may amount to chasing something that does not exist.

 

True, but what if it does exist? Can you live with not knowing? You have been married long enough to know what being married to your wife is like. You don't know what it would be like if you left her. Obviously, you have concerns that it wouldn't be an imporvement. It may not be, but what if it is? Can you live with not finding out?

 

I told my therapist that I feel horrible that I was able to love someone like I did my xOW...and that it made me question what my relationship with my W was really about...or how strong it was. He made some good points:

 

Was it really the A that made you question it? Or is it that the doubts you had were simply forced to surface when the A started?

 

He said that he thinks that this may be me wanting to talk...but really not being ready to talk either. I think he is right...I want to talk, but I have no idea what I want to come from that...so maybe I am projecting my indecision and avoidance on to her and getting fristrated with her for this.

 

Of course, maybe both of you are indecisive.

 

He also made another point that hit me hard. Maybe my ambivalence is really about me being afraid to be completely vulnerable because I am waiting for the other shoe to drop and my wife to decide that my infidelity is unforgivable. Could be.

 

As someone who perhaps doesn't deal well with loss, this makes sense. I've made similar comments to fMM. It was SO much easier for him to be vulnerable in the context of an A because he was "safe". If I rejected him, he was still with his W. After he moved out, it was easy to see that at least for a while his feelings of safety diminished because he didn't have his W to fall back on. In the M he didn't let himself be vulnerable either, which is part of why the M failed. It worked for both of them though, because of certain things in his W's personality - she didn't sem to want or need that kind of vulnerability from him. So, they lacked intimacy, but he was clearly more bothered by that than her. Nevertheless, it worked for him because he could feel safe with her - with no vulnerability to her, he didn't have to fear that she'd run when she found out what was really deep inside him. And he could safely show it to me because he knew his W would still be there.

 

Going back to her represented missing out on real intimacy because their relationship functioned on not having it. It'd be like trying to make a car built for gasoline run on water. So, it became a matter of putting up with the car not being a totally comfortable ride or trying out another car of a variety he knows little about.

 

Sorry for the bizarre analogies, I'm a bit foggy today.

[NowhereToHide]

Thanks for your precient insights.

 

I am trying to work more on my marriage. I would say that although my marriage wasn't perfect, what marriage is? And certainly I had/have a better marriage than many, so I do not lay the affair on my wife at all. I don't feel "forced" into staying in my marriage. In fact, I suppose 99% of people would look at what I have and say "what the heck are you complaining about - why would you throw that away." If anything, it had more to do with my insecurity, selfishness, need for external appreciation and validation, vanity, etc. Although I have not confessed, and have no plans to, my wife and I have talked about these issues during the last 9 months, and things are getting much better. We are each being much better at "catching the other one being good", trying to be more romantic amid the bustle of life, and being understanding that we're both continually changing as we go through life (and mid-life crises) and so obviously are not the same people we were 20 years ago when we married, but we still love each other and want to be together. In some respects, I actually think the A brought some festering things to the forefront for me and made me realize that I needed to snap out of it and put some work into my life and marriage.

 

You are 100% right though that the lingering emotional aspect of the affair - the longing and dreaming and remembering how it made me feel - the lack of total closure - holds me back in repairing/strengthening my marriage, and is still unfair to my wife. But God, the NC is going to hurt. I hope someday the pain will go away. I have to trust you and DI that it will.

 

 

Your situation sounds exactly like mine. I'm a MOW who had an affair with a MM. All the reasons you stated as to WHY you did what you did are the same for me. I needed the validation so damn much.

 

NC really is the way to go. And keep reading posts here so you can really, truly feel what you put in jeopardy by having the A. Feeling that in my soul was the only way I was able to get my AP out of my head (and almost completely out of my heart).

 

I haven't told my H about the A. And like you, I most likely won't. I have asked for a lot of opinions on here and 99% of the people on this board will tell you to confess. They will tell you that true intimacy can't be achieved without confessing. And they may be right. However, I do believe that it is no way a black or white issue. I don't believe confessing is ALWAYS is the right thing to do. I'm working with a therapist, it might help you as well with all of this. He or she can help you decide what you want to do and how to get your marriage to be strong once again.

[NowhereToHide]

ok, sorry, I havent exactly followed this thread.

 

So you have not confessed to your wife but have an appointment with IC, for what ??

 

So tell me, what exactly are you expecting from the IC ? What if he/she says, don't tell. Honestly is not the best policy ?

 

It is just mind boggling to me, that after all what you have done (or not done) how you can now convieniently depend on the IC to help you make the decision for you.

 

can you answer my questions above ?

 

 

Why do you sound so angry towards DI? IC is helpful for many issues, including whether or not to disclose an affair to your spouse. My therapist has recommended that I don't tell. No one "depends" on their therapist for this kind of huge decision, but I think it's interesting that so many people on these boards think that they know the situation better than one's therapist who has the background of the situation.

[NowhereToHide]

What does that say indeed. In fact, look at her actions - she had an EA you knew about, swore she'd never do it again, then proceeded to do just that, multiple times, and had a PA. What does THAT say about her integrity? Serial cheater. Period. You on the other hand - I don't think you are. I think you learned your lesson.

 

Think deeply about this - if you were not wrestling with the guilt of your affair, knowing what you know now, would you still be interested in working this out with her? What is really motivating you at this point?

 

Misty.... this is an interesting post. I guess I don't see DI's wife as a serial cheater. I think she's just damaged, just like DI (just like many of us on here). I think she wasn't having her needs met (probably wasn't truly aware of what those needs were) and looked outside her marriage for them.

 

And one thing I think that's being missed... What DI had was probably a hell of a lot more fulfilling to him in terms of meeting his needs as what she did to try and get hers met. She had brief affairs that never got too deep. DI had a deep connection. It sounds like she kept looking but never found it.

[inhindsight]

 

chances are that he had the affair primarily because your marriage was not working. That's what happened to me. The marriage was making me miserable, and I was too self centered to handle it the right way.

 

 

don't know if I agree that a marriage has to work....

 

The phrase is a misnomer. A "marriage" doesn't work. Marriage is not a physical entity that has the ability to direct anything from happening or not happening as a marriage has no consciousness or will.

 

The individual players in the marriage are the ones that have to work their a$$es off to make it successful. I think there incorrect belief that the union of marriage or exclusive partnership should be easy because you love each other. Love is so wonderful.. oh but love conquers all things! but the truth is that relationships are a lot of bloody hard work and not at all easy and the presence of love itself is not enough. People become unhappy when all of a sudden the marriage is no longer thriving... because for some reason or another (passage of time, getting comfortable/lazy, having kids and less time for one another, whatever it is) one or both of the participants have less energy to invest in the union.

 

Marriage is like a muscle. Everyone is born with muscles and on their own, muscles are their to support your body and hold it upright... But the presence of muscle alone doesn't make the body strong. If you don't excercise your muscles, you won't gain muscle mass. If you don't exercise your marriage, it won't gain muscle mass and as a result become stronger. It will always just be a muscle sitting there.... and at some point, it will atrophy.

 

If a marriage 'is not working' it is because one or both of the players is not holding up their side of the wall. Without that support, the whole wall falls down. I am a recovering WS... I know I wasn't holding up my side of the wall.

 

And UF, this is NOT a slight on you or what you said. Only on the particular phrase/expression that a "marriage is not working" (which I don't blame you for saying, everyone says it.) I just personally don't think it makes sense to say. Just me. I'm quirky, and rather literal. So I tend to deconstruct things.

Edited October 3, 2009 by inhindsight
added more thoughts :)

[inhindsight]

and DI - I am cheering you on supporting you on your quest for being whole.

 

didn't mean to hijack your thread with my rambling... I got too caught up in my literalism and semantics of phrases to say the above to you.

 

Stay strong.

[Devil Inside]

Misty...you pain in the a$$. You always make me think...don't you. Let's see.

 

True, but what if it does exist? Can you live with not knowing? You have been married long enough to know what being married to your wife is like. You don't know what it would be like if you left her. Obviously, you have concerns that it wouldn't be an imporvement. It may not be, but what if it is? Can you live with not finding out?

 

I will not live forever without finding out. I am giving myself until next fall or so. I will assess at that time how I feel. If I still feel the same or similar to the same I think I will ask for a separation.

 

 

 

 

Was it really the A that made you question it? Or is it that the doubts you had were simply forced to surface when the A started?

 

Chicken or the egg here. I'm not sure.

[Devil Inside]

Why do you sound so angry towards DI? IC is helpful for many issues, including whether or not to disclose an affair to your spouse. My therapist has recommended that I don't tell. No one "depends" on their therapist for this kind of huge decision, but I think it's interesting that so many people on these boards think that they know the situation better than one's therapist who has the background of the situation.

 

To clarify in case people do not know...I did confess my A.

 

I do, however, think it is an individual decision. Each person must decide for themselves what they want...and what makes sense for their marriage.

[Devil Inside]

And one thing I think that's being missed... What DI had was probably a hell of a lot more fulfilling to him in terms of meeting his needs as what she did to try and get hers met. She had brief affairs that never got too deep. DI had a deep connection. It sounds like she kept looking but never found it.

 

She told me that she never wanted a deep connection because she never wanted to not be married...she loved me...but had needs I was not meeting.

 

I did have a deep and changing connection. She was wise to stay shallow...because the fact that I was able to love another woman so deeply has really made me question what I feel for my wife. I love her...but do I want to stay married...I don't know.

[Devil Inside]

and DI - I am cheering you on supporting you on your quest for being whole.

 

didn't mean to hijack your thread with my rambling... I got too caught up in my literalism and semantics of phrases to say the above to you.

 

Stay strong.

 

Thank you for the support.

 

If anything I am trying to stay real and honest with myself...which is scary...but so needed.

[WalkInThePark]

don't know if I agree that a marriage has to work....

 

The phrase is a misnomer. A "marriage" doesn't work. Marriage is not a physical entity that has the ability to direct anything from happening or not happening as a marriage has no consciousness or will.

 

The individual players in the marriage are the ones that have to work their a$$es off to make it successful. I think there incorrect belief that the union of marriage or exclusive partnership should be easy because you love each other. Love is so wonderful.. oh but love conquers all things! but the truth is that relationships are a lot of bloody hard work and not at all easy and the presence of love itself is not enough. People become unhappy when all of a sudden the marriage is no longer thriving... because for some reason or another (passage of time, getting comfortable/lazy, having kids and less time for one another, whatever it is) one or both of the participants have less energy to invest in the union.

 

Marriage is like a muscle. Everyone is born with muscles and on their own, muscles are their to support your body and hold it upright... But the presence of muscle alone doesn't make the body strong. If you don't excercise your muscles, you won't gain muscle mass. If you don't exercise your marriage, it won't gain muscle mass and as a result become stronger. It will always just be a muscle sitting there.... and at some point, it will atrophy.

 

If a marriage 'is not working' it is because one or both of the players is not holding up their side of the wall. Without that support, the whole wall falls down. I am a recovering WS... I know I wasn't holding up my side of the wall.

 

And UF, this is NOT a slight on you or what you said. Only on the particular phrase/expression that a "marriage is not working" (which I don't blame you for saying, everyone says it.) I just personally don't think it makes sense to say. Just me. I'm quirky, and rather literal. So I tend to deconstruct things.

 

Don't know, the way you put it, it sounds that marriage problems only occur because the players have not used their muscles enough. I don't agree. Sometimes people are not good enough a match to make it last a lifetime. If you are not a good match, you can do as many efforts as you want.

If it is only a matter of the players working on the marriage, then basically who could stay married with no matter who.

 

My opinion is that choosing the right partner is very important to make a marriage succeed. In order to do that, you have to know yourself and to know what you can expect and not expect from a relationship.

[inhindsight]

Don't know, the way you put it, it sounds that marriage problems only occur because the players have not used their muscles enough. I don't agree. Sometimes people are not good enough a match to make it last a lifetime. If you are not a good match, you can do as many efforts as you want.

If it is only a matter of the players working on the marriage, then basically who could stay married with no matter who.

 

My opinion is that choosing the right partner is very important to make a marriage succeed. In order to do that, you have to know yourself and to know what you can expect and not expect from a relationship.

 

 

I agree with you on these points. I certainly don't mean to imply that it is ONLY he efforts of the players in the marriage that will make it a successful one.

 

However, you could have two perfectly compatible people that are very well matched and so in love when they start out... but if they don't continue to put in the effort throughout the relationship, it will not work, no matter how compatible they should/could be.

 

I by no means believe in a black and white definition of a marriage. There are many factors at play: compatibility, moral views, sexual chemistry, intellectual chemistry, communication values, etc etc. One area will always require more work than another in any marriage.

[NoIDidn't]

DI

 

I really hate it when people confuse the "deep connection" and "love" in the A with the mundane"ness" of love in a marriage. I do.

 

Because there is no comparison.

 

But I know you already know that.

 

It is not wise to compare the love and connection you have with your W, the mother of your children, to the "passion" you had in an A where there were NO real concerns beyond it staying a secret.

 

I can't tell you what life would have been like with your AP, but I do know it is a foolish exercise to compare a marriage with a fling/affair. You both put on your best faces for each other. You didn't get to see how the other kept house or cooked (at least probably not often).

 

There is so much that goes in on in a marriage/live-in long-term relationship that we often take for granted.

 

Your focus shouldn't be on remembering the height of infatuation (the state of passion in the A). Your focus should be on your marriage for its own merits or lack thereof. Thinking of other relationships only takes your focus off of what you say you are working on.

 

There is no point to staying for another year if you are going to spend it wondering "what if" concerning another woman. That's not working on your relationship with your W. That's fantasizing about getting out when your "time" is up.

 

You owe it to yourself to meet your W's emotional needs that you weren't meeting (fixing the reason she cheated), and allowing her to do the same for you (fixing the reason you cheated) in order to call your "staying" working on your marriage. Anything less is a joke. (Sorry for being blunt).

[NoIDidn't]

Don't know, the way you put it, it sounds that marriage problems only occur because the players have not used their muscles enough. I don't agree. Sometimes people are not good enough a match to make it last a lifetime. If you are not a good match, you can do as many efforts as you want.

If it is only a matter of the players working on the marriage, then basically who could stay married with no matter who.

 

My opinion is that choosing the right partner is very important to make a marriage succeed. In order to do that, you have to know yourself and to know what you can expect and not expect from a relationship.

 

I disagree. I feel that what you are talking about here is laziness. Sometimes people are just not willing to give a partner what they want and need. I call BS on people that claim that certain things or behaviors are not in their nature and that's why they aren't willing to do them.

 

We teach people how to treat us. And if we do end up with a partner that we spoiled that doesn't feel they have to do anything to keep our attention (because we didn't seem to mind it before), we can't claim that they are no longer right for us because they won't do this or that.

 

If a partner never put away their shoes, and we accommodated them for years by either accepting it or putting away their shoes for them (knowing we hated it), then we can't scream at them one day about how tired we are of putting their shoes away or the fact that they never put their shoes away. We should not have allowed that behavior in the first place. This is the main reason that people end up in marriage counselling with old patterns that they hate: because they allowed it for so long. Has nothing to do with being right for each other, IMO.

 

I can agree, though, that people do grow and change over a lifetime and that might make them incompatible for a time, but I can't agree that that is a reason to end a marriage.

 

The belief that "choosing the right partner" is a fallacy given what you have already said about people not being right for a lifetime. It doesn't work that way. The way you said it makes it seem like you are trying to have it both ways. Can't claim you chose the right partner, but as they changed that they are no longer the right partner. Either you chose the right person at the beginning realistically knowing/accepting that they were going to change and that they might not seem that right at times, or you didn't.

 

I don't think its completely about who we "choose". I think it has far more to do with what we "allow".