Question for women: Why do women fall for jerks?

[CaliGuy]

I had a friend who was a lot like this. He was smart and very good looking. He was definitely a player, picked up more women than anyone I knew. Ended up in LTRs with the most amazing women. Thing is he also couldn't keep a job or take care of himself. He cheated, lied and relied on them for money while providing little else to them but his company. Over time he became a junkie and alcoholic, ended up in jail a few times. Yet somehow through it all he ends up with some women who 'sees the good in him', wants to help out and see him change.

 

The classic bad boy exterior.. yet I saw this guy a blubbering mess more than any other man I've known.

 

This mentality is known as the "I'll fix him" syndrome.

 

Men and women both do this. They see someone who is obviously broken/faulted and think that THEY will be the one to fix them and make them a good person.

 

The problem with this rationale is that you have no control over other people. You can't fix them, they have to want to fix themselves.

 

It's much much better for you find someone who isn't broken than to waste your time thinking you're going to fix someone who is....

 

Noble cause for sure, but also a gigantic waste of one's time, life and resources.

[Sam Spade]

This has been debated to death, and often sends the wrong message. Guys don't need to become 'jerks' to attract women, but they need to be completely, and utterly unapologetic about what they want (and ideally have good manners in the process.) For whatever reason, women prioritise the unapologetic part higher, even if it is the by-product of being selfish and inconsiderate. So it's a spurious relationship.

 

The lesson? Women don't really like jerks. They just have very poor analytical skills, low self-awareness, and are quite gullible . it would be charming, if it didn't lead to unfortunate consequences so often.

[Hkizzle]

The lesson? Women don't really like jerks. They just have very poor analytical skills, low self-awareness, and are quite gullible . it would be charming, if it didn't lead to unfortunate consequences so often.

 

I want to say this but I can't, lol.

 

Thing is I still buy the evolutionary theory behind it all (men driven to attractive females, women to alpha males) shows why the behaviors are so common.

 

We have to unlearn and beat our genes.

[sally4sara]

I think for myself it was something exclusive to being a bit naive about what one should expect out of a partner or in a relationship. Also, I didn't know they were jerks. Most people are fake in the initial stages of things. They were nice and wanted me to like them so they acted like reasonable fellas, till they got comfortable.

 

I can only think of one guy who acted like a jerk and I can see that now, but then I was 16 and just thought he was joking most of the time. I ended up breaking his nose once I figured things out.

[CaliGuy]

I think for myself it was something exclusive to being a bit naive about what one should expect out of a partner or in a relationship. Also, I didn't know they were jerks. Most people are fake in the initial stages of things. They were nice and wanted me to like them so they acted like reasonable fellas, till they got comfortable.

 

I can only think of one guy who acted like a jerk and I can see that now, but then I was 16 and just thought he was joking most of the time. I ended up breaking his nose once I figured things out.

 

Exactly. Jerks are VERY good at putting up the charade of being a confident, secure, good man. It takes about 6 months for his true nature to show. By that time the woman is already in love (hooked) and lacks the confidence and self-assuredness to put her foot down and walk away. That's the point they think "I can change him."

 

Good luck. Ain't gonna happen, but good luck anyway

[Hkizzle]

Exactly. Jerks are VERY good at putting up the charade of being a confident, secure, good man. It takes about 6 months for his true nature to show. By that time the woman is already in love (hooked) and lacks the confidence and self-assuredness to put her foot down and walk away. That's the point they think "I can change him."

 

Good luck. Ain't gonna happen, but good luck anyway

 

Ok, this is getting more interesting.

 

You say confident people can see through the initial act. How? The reason being the intial act is designed to avoid detection.

[Vertex]

Someone who puts up an act can only really be taken at face value to begin with. However, for those who are secure and experienced, they can spot "red flags" more easily. A red flag, here, would be something that either explicitly or implicitly reveals some kind of negative circumstance or character trait. Those who are more secure with themselves are also more aware of their boundaries, and are therefore more aware when people are breaching or disrespecting them. So, as it would follow, it becomes easier to identify things that are undesirable.

 

A jerk can put up an act, sure -- but I'd say it's too hard to keep all insecurities hidden. Someone who is confident and secure will be able to see through the facade because at some point, a jerk will reveal true character through red flags, and the recognition will be enough to set off the seeds of doubt which, when reinforced, will lead a secure person to walk away early.

 

That's my opinion of it all, anyway. Nobody can "emulate confidence and security" forever, especially jerks. It's only a first-order defense, and those who are wise to it will move on and not waste the time.

[Odyssey]

Hkizzle, i think everyone is attracted to the confidence (be it an act or not).

 

Since most jerks are less affected about being rejected anyway, they look more confident. Could be a numbers thing again. But you gotta admit, practice makes perfect... eventually they'll learn what buttons to push to get the right response.

[CaliGuy]

Ok, this is getting more interesting.

 

You say confident people can see through the initial act. How? The reason being the initial act is designed to avoid detection.

 

Because confident people know they are of value. In the initial stages of courtship, they can spot red flags easier because they aren't overly enamored with the new relationship. They often have their basket full of potential S/Os so they aren't overly concerned with one particular person.

 

This gives them the opportunity to evaluate each person individually and, with confidence, notice and HEED red flags.

 

Someone who is insecure? They often bet the farm on one person. They are so "in" to this person that they won't let anyone or anything stop them from trying to make the relationship flourish. This means ignoring red flag, accepting bad behavior, ignoring one's own personal boundaries, etc.

 

The red flags are there. Granted, it's harder to spot them during the initial stages of courtship. I'm not saying you need to be vigilant, just don't get wooed over to the point of seeing him/her through rose colored glasses.

[Hkizzle]

Ok that's good.

 

What would you consider as red flags?

[Odyssey]

On another note, other than confidence, it could be because jerks (I'm not talking from personal experience, but from knowing 2 typical jerks, so i might be wrong) are more of a 'challenge'. People don't want easy, on a plate and boring. Jerks are exciting too some, personally I think they're too much drama. What do you think?

[CaliGuy]

Ok that's good.

 

What would you consider as red flags?

 

There are a ton of them, far too many to list. I think there's even a thread here somewhere on red flags. I mentioned some earlier such as:

 

1. Not having their career or life in order.

2. Flakey behavior such as making plans and not following through.

3. Emotional outbursts that go far far to one side or the other (far too happy, far to sad).

4. Displaying insecure behavior. (too many calls, too needy/clingy).

5. Ummm, you get a call from their Parole Officer.

6. They hide their cell phone from you.

7. Hypocritical behavior (saying one thing, doing another).

8. Constantly criticizing other people (insecurity).

 

I mean, fill in the blanks. If it FEELS wrong to you, it probably is. The question is, do you go with your gut/intellect or do you follow your heart.

 

(hint: Your heart is the most likely organ in your body to cause you relationship pain!)

[Hkizzle]

On another note, other than confidence, it could be because jerks (I'm not talking from personal experience, but from knowing 2 typical jerks, so i might be wrong) are more of a 'challenge'. People don't want easy, on a plate and boring. Jerks are exciting too some, personally I think they're too much drama. What do you think?

 

Hard to get = attractive to many humans.

[carhill]

I'll share a few indicators I consider to be red flags...

 

-Chameleon-like behavior, situationally dependent.

 

-Emotional unavailability/distance.

 

-Talk and actions don't match up.

 

-"You misunderstood me".

 

-Negative or dismissive responses to communicated boundaries. More likely, placating responses, but none with real action.

 

-'Jokes', especially to dismiss an otherwise important relationship topic.

 

Women cloud their jerkdom with sexual innuendos, using their sexual attraction to cover up the negative aspects of their personality.

[CaliGuy]

On another note, other than confidence, it could be because jerks (I'm not talking from personal experience, but from knowing 2 typical jerks, so i might be wrong) are more of a 'challenge'. People don't want easy, on a plate and boring. Jerks are exciting too some, personally I think they're too much drama. What do you think?

 

Absolutely agree. The problem is jerks are not a challenge in a good sense but in every bit the kind of BAD challenge you don't want

[C-i-C-u]

I want to say this but I can't, lol.

 

Thing is I still buy the evolutionary theory behind it all (men driven to attractive females, women to alpha males) shows why the behaviors are so common.

 

We have to unlearn and beat our genes.

It mostly happens in the US only, so we have to do some catching up.

[Tony427]

Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't overconfidence be the very first red flag?

 

I mean even a secure person is going to be a little nervous when approaching someone to ask out cause I mean if they're not wouldn't that be a bad thing as well.

[Hkizzle]

Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't overconfidence be the very first red flag?

 

I mean even a secure person is going to be a little nervous when approaching someone to ask out cause I mean if they're not wouldn't that be a bad thing as well.

 

Yeah that's a good one I have that I want to put in my book.

 

Thing is, it's hard to explain this to women.........

 

Confidence = attractive, and whilst women spot arrogance well, they find it hard to spot over confidence (no anxiety) well.

[Vertex]

I think red flags differ for everyone.

 

For me, though, I'd say this:

 

1. Past behavior. If someone has a pretty bad history, you're basically looking at what you can expect in the future. Do they have a history of drinking? Drugs? Abuse? Again, past behavior is usually the best indicator of future behavior.

 

2. Serial relationships. I think it's healthier, personally, for people to take time off between relationships in order to reflect upon things properly and re-establish the sense of self. Someone who is constantly hopping from one relationship to the next is usually insecure and afraid of being alone, and usually gets into relationships for the wrong reasons. If you're with such a person, you have to ask yourself, "Alright, then why are they with me, now?"

 

3. Exes. While I think it's usually a good idea to never bring up exes, sometimes people do. Usually those who do nothing but bash and berate their exes without a single positive comment are those who do not take responsibility for themselves -- especially those who often speak ill of them without even being prompted.

 

4. Excessive reliance on parents. This might be more applicable to younger people, but it does apply to some adults. It can imply an inability to be self-reliant (which either means they will rely on you for everything, or they will bring others into the relationship when it is not necessary).

 

5. Making plans and then not really sticking to them. Extremely flakey behavior. Indicative of an unreliable nature.

 

6. Shady behavior. If you get overly defensive when I get near your cell phone, or if you're constantly looking over your shoulder when on the computer, or if you're constantly making excuses that involve longwinded, implausible explanations, it's usually all pointing to dishonesty.

 

7. Lying. If someone can't come forth with hard truth on their own, how can I possibly rely on their word?

 

8. Constant boredom. Those who are usually bored often are, in fact, the most boring people. They will look to you to as their constant source of entertainment and get angry when you aren't supplementing their lack of passions. Don't waste the time. Find more interesting people.

 

9. Inappropriate reactions. If you're exploding illogically/irrationally at someone over something relatively harmless, I wouldn't want to know what you'd be like in an actual disagreement. If you're overly happy one minute and depressed the next, that kind of bipolaresque personality is just too stressful for me. Also, if there's a serious topic to discuss, I consider it rude and disrespectful to play it off like a joke, or to act generally disinterested.

 

10. Incongruency between actions and words. Again, I expect people to be true to their word. Don't tell me one thing and do another.

 

11. Big spender. Especially if the money isn't theirs. Look out!

 

12. Lack of appreciation. Someone who can't utter the simplest of "thank you"s usually have other issues in that department.

 

13. Jealousy. If I am speaking to a female friend, and a romantic interest gives me grief over it, they're not going to be a romantic interest for much longer. This is usually indicative of insecurity.

 

14. Chronic complaints. Especially if someone complains a lot about other people, you can be sure they'll be complaining about you behind closed doors. A lot.

 

15. Overly self-focused. If someone isn't really asking you questions about yourself often, and is more focused with talking on and on about themselves all the time, why bother?

 

There are more, but I think you get the point by now -- damn, that list took me a while to type.

[EddieN]

There's also another factor to consider and that's upbringing. People tend to gravitate to what is familiar. So if the men in a girls past acted a certain way that may be what she expects a man in her life to be like. So if say Dad or Uncle, brothers early boyfreinds etc. were jerks then that may be what she expects from a man. So when a balanced or 'nicer' guy shows up her programming says that something's missing. Most often it's the confusion that an 'alpha' man is supposed to be aggressive, loud, obnoxious, abusive or controlling.

 

Obviously this isn't the case for all but I've certainly seen it in my life.

 

A lot of jerky guys like the ones we're talking about think getting women is the be-all end-all goal for life. If they can score hot girls, they're successful. To have this mentality is misguided and pathetic. Sure, I'd love to have an amazing and beautiful girlfriend, but that is far from my main priority in life. A lot of these guys think they're the **** because some girls want them, but they really can't do anything else.

[Sam Spade]

Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't overconfidence be the very first red flag?

 

I mean even a secure person is going to be a little nervous when approaching someone to ask out cause I mean if they're not wouldn't that be a bad thing as well.

 

Yes, and that's why this women's tendency is even more annoying. I'm one of the most confident guys I know, yet you'll never see me dominate a social setting or a conversation with my awesomness , uncle Sam simply has got nothing to prove to anybody. Needless to say, loud douches always get more action than me (it is of course, questionable to what extent this correlates with their actual confidence). However, after my early 20s, this stopped to irritate me (it turned out that observing the stupidity is a pretty good entertainment, plus of course this helps me weed out unstable women (i.e. ones who fall for that type of shet).

[sally4sara]

I think one of the things that the posters in this thread seem to be over looking is that just about everyone under the sun is a jerk. It is a tendency within everyone. I keep reading lists of signs and red flag and qualities people think should clue the "gullible women" in to the the jerkiness of some random guy. Most of the qualities are simply the different stages both men and women go through to finding an even keel.

My brother is a good example. Inept at first in early teens. Then sarcastic and fake confident in late teens. This kept on in his early 20s only louder more physically showy. Now he is evening out in his late twenties. He got married last year to a women he admired from afar for 9 years. He is mellowing, not trying so hard. With a child on the way, he has settled into his masculinity and wearing it as his skin and not some costume.

My SO was an absolute loud and insensitive jerk. When I started dating him he was just beginning to realize most of his problems with women were a "him" problem and not a "their" problem. He, also, now very sure of himself without needing to call everyone's attention to his talents and wit.

I was a jerk in my teens and early 20s. Loud and oh so very petulant. I grew up.

These jerks you watch get the girls and cluck about how gullible the girl is to be with them......many will be great people one day. I'm sure some of you are serious jerks in your own right now and then.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I fell for a 'jerk' recently. Well, maybe not a jerk exactly - just someone who was completely indifferent toward me. We were FWB and the sex was incredible, but emotionally? He did not care one iota for me now that I look back, even though at the time I thought he did care for me.

 

And I became fixated on him. He is very good looking, aloof, will not bother with women if they are not intelligent, and every girl that came after him at work he soundly rejected or mocked. Except for me. He let me in in ways that he shut everyone else out. The fact that came after me - me mind you, instead of younger, better looking women was intriguing. It caused me to overlook the fact that he was well, a jerk. He literally would not leave me alone, and clearly loved the sex. My ego got the best of me.

 

I guess that part of it was knowing that I was succeeding where other women had failed, but in hindsight - it was like winning a race, only to find no prize waiting for you at the end. Wasted effort, basically.

[stillafool]

Maybe they're not falling for them but instead getting what they want.

 

Honestly when I see a girl with a jerk I don't feel bad. Girls like that become instantly unattractive to me so I don't feel like it's my loss.

 

 

This guy and what Carhill says is the healthy attitude to have. Go find a girl who doesn't like what Hkizzle calls a "jerk". I know these women are getting what they want when they go after these guys. They want to conquer these guys. So, go past a girl who thinks like this and move on to someone who will WANT YOU.

 

Hkizzle your research seems like you are writing a book for men who can't get the women they want rather than for women who consistently fall for "bad boys".

[carhill]

I fell for a 'jerk' recently. Well, maybe not a jerk exactly - just someone who was completely indifferent toward me. We were FWB and the sex was incredible, but emotionally?

I'm trying to grasp how someone can stick their penis in you, 'let you in' and yet be completely indifferent. To me, 'indifferent' means lack of acknowledgment or any sort of care. If he stuck his penis in a gloryhole, that's indifferent. He selected you. He cared enough and differentiated enough to make that selection.

 

My wife said I'd never grasp the concept of sport f*cking, and I think she's likely right