Question for women: Why do women fall for jerks?

[Hkizzle]

Damn, Hkizzle. Caliguy just wrote your book!

 

I sense a bit of personal displeasure here......

 

Regarding theory. Theory is good, but if most women did use their heads and not their heart then jerks couldn't get in.

 

It's like fat people know what's required to lose weight. The hard part is the willpower. A good trainer is actually someone that teaches how to increase motivation and make willpower easier to attain.

[CaliGuy]

I didn't read the whole thread, just the title lol. So this may have been mentioned already. From my experience, I have fallen for jerks because of low self esteem, having the fear of not being able to attract any better, and thinking that someday that jerk would change and treat me the way I've always longed to be treated. I thought that maybe if I kept on being that sweet doormat and doing whatever he wanted that he would see how much I truly just want him to like me as a person. I figured maybe one day he would stop being a jerk and learn to care about me the same way I cared about him. But I realized this only caused him to keep treating me this way, because he could and I allowed it.

 

BINGO! You hit the nail on head as to the mentality of women who date jerks. It's their own lack of self-esteem that keeps them hooked. They keep believing he is going to change (he won't, I promise you) and the longer you stay with him, the more he's going to treat you like dirt (because he knows your threats to leave are lies).

 

You aren't going to change a man. And it takes about six months for him to be who he REALLY is. If after six months he hasn't changed or improved, he is NOT GOING TO. EVER!. He is who he has proven to be by his actions.

 

Any promises to change are lies. He is saying what you want to hear to keep you around (so he has the sex he wants). But you'll soon realize he's going back to his old ways. This cycle repeats itself until eventually you either gain some self-respect and TRULY walk away OR he ends up finding someone he likes better and dumping you.

 

Bottom line? He is who he PROVES to be. The choice to believe that is up to you. But sticking around thinking you'll change him? That is the biggest waste of time ever.

 

It’s your life to do as you please. You can waste your time on a worthless jerk of a man or you can love and respect yourself and walk away. And you will NEVER meet a good, well balanced man until you yourself become a confident, well balanced woman.

 

Cheers.

[Chicago_Guy]

What type of women are you looking at here that fall for jerks? You're average nice girl or your super hotties? Cause I always find it funny that average joes complain about women falling for jerks but it's usually because the women they are looking at are these club-like girls that like to party.

 

I think you are right about that. Women who party a lot and date a lot seem to be the ones more likely to fall for jerks. There are some very good-looking women who don't go out drinking a lot and who aren't always dating around. It's just hard to meet a woman like that - they generally don't hang out at bars.

[loveslife]

In my past experience with the jerk XH... I was attracted because of his charisma.

 

Now, you have to be specific about which type of "jerk" you mean. There are all kinds - they are jerks in different ways.

 

But I would assume that a lot of women are attracted to the rough edges. Like there's something "sexy" about it, or something. Or maybe she needed a project - somebody she could fix up. And a big one - Women tend to fall in love with potential in a guy. Thinking, "Oh, he'd be such a great guy if only he'd...." Fill in the blank. I think a lot of women see what a man COULD be and that's what gets them excited.

 

I'm learning to drop such assumptions and decide if I love/like the man presented right in front of me. I know fully now that men do not change. If there's some big incompatibility that I see between us, I have to decide if it's a dealbreaker for the long term - not hope that one day he'll change his mind. No thanks. I'm not wasting my time on that one anymore.

 

Well, this was your first response, and I didn't need to read any further. This is spot on to me. I'm right there with ya, SS.

[Hkizzle]

I didn't read the whole thread, just the title lol. So this may have been mentioned already. From my experience, I have fallen for jerks because of low self esteem, having the fear of not being able to attract any better, and thinking that someday that jerk would change and treat me the way I've always longed to be treated. I thought that maybe if I kept on being that sweet doormat and doing whatever he wanted that he would see how much I truly just want him to like me as a person. I figured maybe one day he would stop being a jerk and learn to care about me the same way I cared about him. But I realized this only caused him to keep treating me this way, because he could and I allowed it.

 

Yeah that explains what kept you there. But why didn't you feel the same attraction for any normal decent guy?

[Odyssey]

wow CaliGuy, excellent replies there and i couldn't agree with it more.

Everyone has their boundaries and it's about having the confidence & strength to stick to them, instead of looking through those rose-tinted glasses all the time. Not easy. . .

[Cora]

Yeah that explains what kept you there. But why didn't you feel the same attraction for any normal decent guy?

 

Good question! I haven't really attracted many normal decent guys. I seem to have a pattern of attracting jerks. The normal decent guys I have attracted (maybe one or two) had the decency to let me know early on this just wasn't working for them and they saw me as more of a friend. So I have more experience with jerks

[EddieN]

Like others have said, CaliGuy is spot on.

 

I've only known one guy who was a true "I don't give a ****" jerk at heart, and he's now a navy seal that's totally insane. Really though, almost every other guy I've met who one might describe as a jerk, *******, douchebag, or tool is putting on an act. I don't get why girls can't see that these guys are so full of ****.

 

I unfortunately know one guy who is the ultimate frat boy gym rat jerk. He manages to get really hot girls somehow, but behind hiss buff manly look I know him to be a huge wimp and coward. His roommate who was my friend used to come back to the room and hear him crying on the phone to his girlfriend. He had no other ambitions except to please and attract girls, and he definitely succeeded, but for what? He has no substance to him, even though it might look like it on the outside.

 

I'd rather have substance to me and never get laid than trade myself just to please a girl.

[Hkizzle]

Good question! I haven't really attracted many normal decent guys. I seem to have a pattern of attracting jerks. The normal decent guys I have attracted (maybe one or two) had the decency to let me know early on this just wasn't working for them and they saw me as more of a friend. So I have more experience with jerks

 

This is what I was getting at. Whilst Cali guy gives a good answer on why so many women stay in a relationship with a jerk. Not many people can explain why so many people fall for jerk's in the first place.

[carhill]

Conventional wisdom would indicate that most women, regardless of relationship status, are exposed more to jerks than balanced men or nice guys, simply because jerks are more likely to hit on anything with a vagina. Ergo, the numbers...

 

Women fall for jerks for many of the same reasons that perfectly reasonable people fall for con artists. They're human illusionists who understand instinctively the psychology of their prey. Street-smart sociopathy, all applied dispassionately and without emotion. When emotions are removed, all that remains is intellect and pure pragmatism. If women, in this instance, like the con-artist's prey, didn't have something the jerk wanted (in this case a vagina/love/care/money/whatever), they would not be on the jerk's radar. The essence of jerkdom is taking. They are the Hoover's (that's a vacuum cleaner) of human existence. They suck life out of people

 

BTW, the above describes female jerks as well. How do I know this? LOL at myself and happy to have broken a life-long dysfunctional pattern.

[Hkizzle]

Conventional wisdom would indicate that most women, regardless of relationship status, are exposed more to jerks than balanced men or nice guys, simply because jerks are more likely to hit on anything with a vagina. Ergo, the numbers...

 

Women fall for jerks for many of the same reasons that perfectly reasonable people fall for con artists. They're human illusionists who understand instinctively the psychology of their prey. Street-smart sociopathy, all applied dispassionately and without emotion. When emotions are removed, all that remains is intellect and pure pragmatism. If women, in this instance, like the con-artist's prey, didn't have something the jerk wanted (in this case a vagina/love/care/money/whatever), they would not be on the jerk's radar. The essence of jerkdom is taking. They are the Hoover's (that's a vacuum cleaner) of human existence. They suck life out of people

 

BTW, the above describes female jerks as well. How do I know this? LOL at myself and happy to have broken a life-long dysfunctional pattern.

 

Well yes a player hits on more women and therefore would have a higher success rate. But average guys have a lower per hit success rate.

 

As for your explanation about con artists. Spot on, that's why players are so good at what they do. They understand the psychology of their targets and target what they know to be attractive in their target's eyes.

[carhill]

Just imagine if some of the brightest, most creative, most intellectual minds of our age decided to become terrorists and turned their intellect into a weapon against humanity.

 

In many ways, jerks (remember I'm not differentiating gender here) are social terrorists. They're wolves in the fold. When I spot them now, I call them out right in their face. Anarchy in jerkdom is alive and well.

[Vertex]

My experiences:

 

I've grown up as a "nice guy." I've got decent personality traits (I would hope!), but I grew up without a spine. In past relationships, I'd always be too shy to approach women, and then I'd wonder why I'd always lose my romantic interests to guys I thought were not nearly on the same level as I was in terms of what I could offer -- and in many ways, I was correct. Regardless, being too shy and insecure is not the best way to advertise yourself. A "jerk," I would say, is all outward advertisement and persuasion but little substance. However, insecure people will hold onto that hope or desire to change things once they've gotten in deep.

 

In relationships, I myself would hold onto such a hope. I'd let women walk all over me, disrespect me, push my boundaries, and generally make my life a living hell when all I ever tried to do was be a good boyfriend. Looking back, it was obvious that I was holding onto a hope for change when that was indeed not going to happen. And, of course, I was insecure because I was afraid of being lonely, and so I was more willing to put up with other people's crap because I felt it was better than being single.

 

I can say though, that while being single can still get lonely from time to time, it's certainly LEAPS better than trying to make an obviously dysfunctional relationship work out. My life was ten times as stressful, and other facets of my life had deteriorated. A bad relationship is simply not worth it.

 

I learned the hard way that respect for yourself is key, and being cautious early on is important. I have very well-established boundaries now that I will simply not allow anyone to breach. If they do, they're out of the game. In a very recent situation, I ended up rejecting a girl after about a month and a half because I caught her lying about something I felt was important.

 

As someone who grew up as a "nice guy," the notion of rejecting an otherwise beautiful woman was a bit new to me, but I simply can't tolerate someone who can't respect me (mainly because I've developed my own sense of self-respect!). But many people who get suckered into these "jerk" relationships put up with so many instances of boundary-breaking, and, like Caliguy said, it's all because of insecurity.

 

Learn to be assertive and stick to your guns. Secure people won't want to stick around with insecure people. Insecure people together in the same relationship is also a recipe for disaster in many cases. Being confident in yourself and being firm with your dealbreakers and boundaries is so important, and it makes you more stable, secure, and attractive.

[C-i-C-u]

Women also fall for jerks because most women do not want to be alone. So they will stick with a guy regardless of how he treats her. just as long as she is not alone.

[Hkizzle]

Women also fall for jerks because most women do not want to be alone. So they will stick with a guy regardless of how he treats her. just as long as she is not alone.

 

Again that explains why women stay with a jerk. Not why they pick a jerk over a normal guy in the first place.

[CaliGuy]

Good question! I haven't really attracted many normal decent guys. I seem to have a pattern of attracting jerks. The normal decent guys I have attracted (maybe one or two) had the decency to let me know early on this just wasn't working for them and they saw me as more of a friend. So I have more experience with jerks

 

That's because, and no offense, good/confident men are not usually attracted to insecure women. Good confident people naturally attract GOOD CONFIDENT people. It's hard for insecure people to recognize good confident people because their own insecurity says "This person is too good for me" or "This person is too good to be real, so something must be wrong with them."

 

Insecure people have a perspective that makes them doubt the sincerity of good/confident people. They see a jerk and instantly see some of the faults and figure "Oh good, he isn't perfect so he must be normal!" That's the mentality of an insecure woman that attracts her to a jerk and keeps her from meeting and attracting a good/confident/balanced guy.

 

So the rule of thumb?

 

If you are secure and confident, you will attract secure and confident people.

If you are insecure as a woman, you will attract jerks.

If you are insecure as a man, you'll attract a b*tch.

 

It's how life works. The more confident and secure you become the more likely you are to heed red flags and pick out bad people. And the more likely you are to recognize a good/confident man and attract each other

 

This is what I was getting at. Whilst Cali guy gives a good answer on why so many women stay in a relationship with a jerk. Not many people can explain why so many people fall for jerk's in the first place.

 

I explained this above. They fall for jerks because they see that jerks show their faults right off the bat and they assume "Well good, he isn't perfect so he must be real!" That's the jix. They assume good/confident men are "too perfect" and therefore must be putting up a charade. "He can't be real! He's too good to be true!"

 

Jerks are REALLY GOOD at saying/doing what a woman wants to hear. But he's not doing it because he cares about her. He's doing it so he can get her in bed. This charade keeps up as long as he is getting what he wants (sex). If he gets bored with her or she decides to cut down on the sex, you'll see the true character of a jerk show up.

 

Often times, a jerk will make small changes to keep her appeased but again, this is just a charade. He is not truly changing and becoming a better person. Everything a jerk does (remember, he is deeply insecure) is done for his own benefit, not for the greater good of the relationship or because he loves her.

 

Jerks, IMHO, are incapable of fully experiencing and knowing what love REALLY is. Everything they do is meant to protect themselves and get their needs met, quite often at the expense of the insecure girl he's dating.

 

Strong, confident women do not put up with this behavior and will simply walk away. Jerk guy won't chase (hard). He'll use his deceiving tactics to try and keep her around. Remember, he's just trying to get his needs met and he really doesn't care in the long run what effect that has on her.

 

And in the case of insecure women, this can lead to staying in a very one-sided, unfulfilling relationship. The next thing they know they are middle aged, quite often unmarried (but maybe has kids) and us very, very unhappy.

[Vertex]

"If you are secure and confident, you will attract secure and confident people.

If you are insecure as a woman, you will attract jerks.

If you are insecure as a man, you'll attract a b*tch."

 

Reposted for truth

[Hkizzle]

The thing is, I have seen confident women fall for jerks, although of course they learn from their mistakes.

 

The key is they fall

[Vertex]

If a confident woman falls for a jerk, I'd argue they'd get right back out once their boundaries have been breached. Otherwise, they aren't really confident/secure women.

[Hkizzle]

The thing is, I have seen confident women fall for jerks, although of course they learn from their mistakes.

 

The key is they fall in the first place. So you have to add to that theory two misconceptions that inexperienced women have, even the confident ones.

 

Men can be changed.......

 

I'm special or I am strong enough to deal with this guy.

[sumdude]

There's also another factor to consider and that's upbringing. People tend to gravitate to what is familiar. So if the men in a girls past acted a certain way that may be what she expects a man in her life to be like. So if say Dad or Uncle, brothers early boyfreinds etc. were jerks then that may be what she expects from a man. So when a balanced or 'nicer' guy shows up her programming says that something's missing. Most often it's the confusion that an 'alpha' man is supposed to be aggressive, loud, obnoxious, abusive or controlling.

 

Obviously this isn't the case for all but I've certainly seen it in my life.

[Cora]

That's because, and no offense, good/confident men are not usually attracted to insecure women. Good confident people naturally attract GOOD CONFIDENT people. It's hard for insecure people to recognize good confident people because their own insecurity says "This person is too good for me" or "This person is too good to be real, so something must be wrong with them."

 

Insecure people have a perspective that makes them doubt the sincerity of good/confident people. They see a jerk and instantly see some of the faults and figure "Oh good, he isn't perfect so he must be normal!" That's the mentality of an insecure woman that attracts her to a jerk and keeps her from meeting and attracting a good/confident/balanced guy.

 

So the rule of thumb?

 

If you are secure and confident, you will attract secure and confident people.

If you are insecure as a woman, you will attract jerks.

If you are insecure as a man, you'll attract a b*tch.

 

It's how life works. The more confident and secure you become the more likely you are to heed red flags and pick out bad people. And the more likely you are to recognize a good/confident man and attract each other

 

 

 

I explained this above. They fall for jerks because they see that jerks show their faults right off the bat and they assume "Well good, he isn't perfect so he must be real!" That's the jix. They assume good/confident men are "too perfect" and therefore must be putting up a charade. "He can't be real! He's too good to be true!"

 

Jerks are REALLY GOOD at saying/doing what a woman wants to hear. But he's not doing it because he cares about her. He's doing it so he can get her in bed. This charade keeps up as long as he is getting what he wants (sex). If he gets bored with her or she decides to cut down on the sex, you'll see the true character of a jerk show up.

 

Often times, a jerk will make small changes to keep her appeased but again, this is just a charade. He is not truly changing and becoming a better person. Everything a jerk does (remember, he is deeply insecure) is done for his own benefit, not for the greater good of the relationship or because he loves her.

 

Jerks, IMHO, are incapable of fully experiencing and knowing what love REALLY is. Everything they do is meant to protect themselves and get their needs met, quite often at the expense of the insecure girl he's dating.

 

Strong, confident women do not put up with this behavior and will simply walk away. Jerk guy won't chase (hard). He'll use his deceiving tactics to try and keep her around. Remember, he's just trying to get his needs met and he really doesn't care in the long run what effect that has on her.

 

And in the case of insecure women, this can lead to staying in a very one-sided, unfulfilling relationship. The next thing they know they are middle aged, quite often unmarried (but maybe has kids) and us very, very unhappy.

 

Absolutely true!!!

[sumdude]

I unfortunately know one guy who is the ultimate frat boy gym rat jerk. He manages to get really hot girls somehow, but behind hiss buff manly look I know him to be a huge wimp and coward. His roommate who was my friend used to come back to the room and hear him crying on the phone to his girlfriend. He had no other ambitions except to please and attract girls, and he definitely succeeded, but for what? He has no substance to him, even though it might look like it on the outside.

 

I had a friend who was a lot like this. He was smart and very good looking. He was definitely a player, picked up more women than anyone I knew. Ended up in LTRs with the most amazing women. Thing is he also couldn't keep a job or take care of himself. He cheated, lied and relied on them for money while providing little else to them but his company. Over time he became a junkie and alcoholic, ended up in jail a few times. Yet somehow through it all he ends up with some women who 'sees the good in him', wants to help out and see him change.

 

The classic bad boy exterior.. yet I saw this guy a blubbering mess more than any other man I've known.

[CaliGuy]

The thing is, I have seen confident women fall for jerks, although of course they learn from their mistakes.

 

The key is they fall

 

A truly confident woman will be able to pick out a jerk/player early in the relationship. The other key is, they DO walk away and do not stay.

 

If a confident woman falls for a jerk, I'd argue they'd get right back out once their boundaries have been breached. Otherwise, they aren't really confident/secure women.

 

Exactly.

 

Just like men. A truly secure man will not cling to a relationship with an insecure or b*tchy woman. They simply will not put up with that behavior.

 

Agreed that upbringing has something to do with it but ultimately the true measure of being a confident and secure person means that, despite what is familiar to you, you will STILL walk away from an insecure or jerk type of a guy. You simply will not stay.

 

Because deep down, you know you can do better and DESERVE better.

 

For women and men, read the book called "Boundaries" (Cloud/Townsend). It explains how to build confidence through the use and enforcement of boundaries. Insecure people do not understand how to set and keep boundaries.

 

For example saying "If you don't stop doing this, I am leaving you." and when he does it again, you don't leave. In some cases you might leave but come back the second he says "I'll change." This is a cylic behavioral pattern that never goes away until you TRULY leave him for good.

[Hkizzle]

Sorry for my repost. My second post is the full post. Internet had a prob.