Thaddeus Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 As far as people making threads about jerks, I doubt the people they're with really are this stereotype: either they're with someone that is a much more dominant personality that can't respect them (and is therefore, being a jerk), or they're exhibiting specific behavior that is "jerky".This is a good point and one that's often lost in the conversation. The REAL 'bad boys' - not the posers and provocateurs - are hanging around the prison yard. Ladies, want a REAL 'bad boy' with a REAL 'edge' to him and all the excitement that goes with it? Hang out by the prison exit door.
Author Hkizzle Posted August 18, 2009 Author Posted August 18, 2009 First, both are so obviously wrong, just for different reasons. Your stereotypical nice guy is a weak person that is unable to defend himself assertively. Secondly, how exactly are you getting this statistic that 10% of men are like this? I'm of the opinion that these stereotypes you're projecting are very rare in the population, that one person is definitively one or the other. The world is never black and white. Furthermore, just because one has been labeled a "nice guy" doesn't mean he can't really be an *******, and vice versa. We're people, not robots. As far as people making threads about jerks, I doubt the people they're with really are this stereotype: either they're with someone that is a much more dominant personality that can't respect them (and is therefore, being a jerk), or they're exhibiting specific behavior that is "jerky". Wrong, I'm not talking about some wimp that doesn't defend himself. I know plenty of normal nice guys that can't attract women THEY WANT. Just look at half the guys on this board complaining about it. They make ridiculous minor mistakes and getting written off by the very women on this board that complain they can't find decent normal guys. Make the wrong move, and you can destroy the ability of a woman to feel a connection for the guy. That's the problem, so much in attraction isn't logical, it's evolutionarily wired. The top 10% of the guys I know in terms of attractiveness attract the most women. Why? I know their sex partner count. The average guy is lucky to attract a girl he likes after trying real hard. Whilst the biggest players I know have at least a new partern each month. Most these girls are not dumb bitches either, I know beausee I know the girls that fall for the same guys.
Vet Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Wrong, I'm not talking about some wimp that doesn't defend himself. I know plenty of normal nice guys that can't attract women. Just look at half the guys on this board complaining about it. They make ridiculous minor mistakes and getting written off by the very women on this board that complain they can't find decent normal guys. Make the wrong move, and you can destroy the ability of a woman to feel a connection for the guy. That's the problem, so much in attraction isn't logical, it's evolutionarily wired. The top 10% of the guys I know in terms of attractiveness attract the most women. Why? I know their sex partner count. The average guy is lucky to attract a girl he likes after trying real hard. Whilst the biggest players I know have at least a new partern each month. I disagree with you. I think the person you're describing is a wimp. Anyone that really does make one "wrong move", and just completely gives up and comes to post on boards like this one to lament his situation is a wimp. That's exactly what the women on this very board (and everywhere else) don't want. Don't quit your day job to pursue being a statistician, by the way.
Thaddeus Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Anyone that really does make one "wrong move", and just completely gives up and comes to post on boards like this one to lament his situation is a wimp. That's exactly what the women on this very board (and everywhere else) don't want.I don't think that's what Hkizzle is saying. My understanding of his assertion is that if a guy makes one wrong move, his partner will immediately write him off.
Vet Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 I don't think that's what Hkizzle is saying. My understanding of his assertion is that if a guy makes one wrong move, his partner will immediately write him off. I know that's what he meant, but I was trying to express that that doesn't happen to men who are assertive; it only happens to men that let it happen. If I make a mistake in a relationship (or a date, whatever), I fix it, but if she's written me off, then that's her problem. I move on like a normal person. I don't cry and whine that women only like jerks and post on the internet about it. That's not attractive behavior. We're all the masters of our own destinies. Once you start accepting that, people are naturally attracted to you.
carhill Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Ladies, want a REAL 'bad boy' with a REAL 'edge' to him and all the excitement that goes with it? Hang out by the prison exit door.Well, having 3 prisons within a 50 mile radius, including the one in which Charles Manson resides, and with one of my wife's girlfriends working at one (Charlie's), I can happily tell you that this goes on every day (well, visitation days anyway). Then there's the 'pen pals'. Dysfunction is alive and well
Schildt2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 It's a little misogynistic to say that women fall for jerks. It's a bitter statement. I think there actually more nice people out there. These jerks are a minority and it's probably just possible that a lot of guys aren't mature enough to distinguish between being a jerk and being assertive.
Author Hkizzle Posted August 18, 2009 Author Posted August 18, 2009 I know that's what he meant, but I was trying to express that that doesn't happen to men who are assertive; it only happens to men that let it happen. If I make a mistake in a relationship (or a date, whatever), I fix it, but if she's written me off, then that's her problem. I move on like a normal person. I don't cry and whine that women only like jerks and post on the internet about it. That's not attractive behavior. We're all the masters of our own destinies. Once you start accepting that, people are naturally attracted to you. Err, no, I'm not talking about wimps. In fact, let me explain to you my background. I'm a former player, and whilst I tried my best not to lead women on, (I back off if I sense she wants a relationship before having sex with her) I will classify myself as a jerk. I don't have any friends that are wimpy boring guys. I can't stand them, and that's my choice because I want to have an interesting social circle. My friends are: 1) Cool decent assertive nice guys. 2) Players 3) Decent nice guys. (I think these guys are closer to what you are refering to) But the decent nice guys will still say that "nice guys come last" has a huge element of truth to it. Whilst players that work on deception get a lot more girls, and I'm not talking about desperate, dumb, low self esteem girls. Most of the girls I know that fall for the players are bankers and lawyers that are confident, and have high self esteem. Your average player can get about a new woman interested each month, whilst the average nice guy although he approaches fewer women of course, has a lower success rate PER APPROACH. I know the reason behind why this happens. I just want women to tell me why they think it is, because I just got a green light from a publisher and writing a book for women from a jerk's perspective teaching women how to avoid jerks, and I want to write it in a palatable manner.
Author Hkizzle Posted August 18, 2009 Author Posted August 18, 2009 It's a little misogynistic to say that women fall for jerks. It's a bitter statement. I think there actually more nice people out there. These jerks are a minority and it's probably just possible that a lot of guys aren't mature enough to distinguish between being a jerk and being assertive. SOME or MANY women then, since being precise is important....... I find it interesting though that when someone says Women fall for jerks, they assume the poster is some wimp that can't get women whining about it. Jerks are a minority, but the jerks that know how to attract women attract a lot of women, and hence even if 3-4% of men are successful players, if they attract one woman a month, that's a pretty big hit count they're getting down.
Vet Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Heh, okay, former player turned... jerk (really, if you want to write a palatable book, stop overusing these labels). First, your population sampling of your friends is so small as to be irrelevant. Secondly, one woman a month? Are you serious? Some guys call that a long-term relationship. Third, you're writing a book telling women how to avoid "jerks", but want to hear their input on how to do so? Um, what?
Author Hkizzle Posted August 18, 2009 Author Posted August 18, 2009 Heh, okay, former player turned... jerk (really, if you want to write a palatable book, stop overusing these labels). First, your population sampling of your friends is so small as to be irrelevant. Secondly, one woman a month? Are you serious? Some guys call that a long-term relationship. Third, you're writing a book telling women how to avoid "jerks", but want to hear their input on how to do so? Um, what? See, that's exactly why I used the labels I did, to garner responses like the ones you just gave! No, not one woman a month........ One NEW woman per month to add to the existing ones that are still having sex with. So they might have 3-4 sex partners at the same time, and as one caught on and dropped off they will add a new one.
Vet Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 See, that's exactly why I used the labels I did, to garner responses like the ones you just gave! No, not one woman a month........ One NEW woman per month to add to the existing ones that are still having sex with. So they might have 3-4 sex partners at the same time, and as one caught on and dropped off they will add a new one. Sigh. Nevermind.
Author Hkizzle Posted August 18, 2009 Author Posted August 18, 2009 Sigh. Nevermind. What's wrong? I have to write in a provocative way to get interesting repsonses to see people's views...... Or are you sighing because it's sick they have a virtual harem going on? But again that's my point....... it's discouraging to see that the "wicked" get rewarded, whilst decent guys don't attract women in the same way.
missdependant Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 My dad taught me that all men are a**holes and all women are psychotic.. and that's just the way of the world. He's a little cynical.. but I've been living by this standard for quite some time now. So in my opinion it's kind of like voting; you're sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't. ;-)
Vet Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 What's wrong? I have to write in a provocative way to get interesting repsonses to see people's views...... Or are you sighing because it's sick they have a virtual harem going on? No, I'm exasperated in talking with you. There's nothing provocative at all with what you're saying. Also, the men I think you're talking about are picking up multiple women per night. You: A) Don't understand basic statistics--you don't understand population samples, data outliers, or obviously the scientific process. You spout of percentages like they mean something. B) Don't understand how the publishing industry works; unless by "greenlit by your publisher" means you thought of this idea while on the can, and have decided to write on this awful subject and self-publish it. C) Don't understand that people aren't mindless automatons whose actions are determined by some one-rail track you've labeled them as. Good luck with all that.
Author Hkizzle Posted August 18, 2009 Author Posted August 18, 2009 No, I'm exasperated in talking with you. There's nothing provocative at all with what you're saying. Also, the men I think you're talking about are picking up multiple women per night. You: A) Don't understand basic statistics--you don't understand population samples, data outliers, or obviously the scientific process. You spout of percentages like they mean something. B) Don't understand how the publishing industry works; unless by "greenlit by your publisher" means you thought of this idea while on the can, and have decided to write on this awful subject and self-publish it. C) Don't understand that people aren't mindless automatons whose actions are determined by some one-rail track you've labeled them as. Good luck with all that. a) The best selling relationship self help books out there....... Why men love bitches He's just not that into you Steve Harvey's Act like a lady/think like a man All refer to minorities and generalisations without being scientific. b) My friend's Godmother works for random house, and yes green light was a deceptive comment. She liked what my synopsis, intro and first chapter was like and wants a finished copy to look at. c) Generalizations are not good yet the best selling books are full of them. The reason being you can't specify all the subgroups of behavior. Instead you focus on the main types, and things people want to avoid. People that read self help books read them for interest or have an existing problem, usually they're dating jerks or can't get women. Therefore you focus on the main groups in the opposite sex and teach people how to handle these groups. I can say, well there are plenty of nice assertive guys out there, just look harder and you will find one. For a woman that keeps dating jerks that's of no help what so ever.
C-i-C-u Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 I know of a guy who is in his mid 40s has a wife and 6 to 7 different women a week for sex. Once he has sex with them he dumps them. And moves on to another girl and these girls are in their 20s. Its sad really, because he keeps passing HPV and herpes to all these girls and all these girls are going to have cervical cancer because of it. But hey! Women like jerks, it just sucks that she is going to be giving HPV and Herpes to innocent guys that are decent unlike that scumbag.
Author Hkizzle Posted August 18, 2009 Author Posted August 18, 2009 I know of a guy who is in his mid 40s has a wife and 6 to 7 different women a week for sex. Once he has sex with them he dumps them. And moves on to another girl and these girls are in their 20s. Its sad really, because he keeps passing HPV and herpes to all these girls and all these girls are going to have cervical cancer because of it. But hey! Women like jerks, it just sucks that she is going to be giving HPV and Herpes to innocent guys that are decent unlike that scumbag. Well unfortunatly more attractive individuals attract more people despite their moral values. They also have a higher chance of having STDs because of more sex partners. Although herpes isn't, HPV is curable as far as I know. But yeah, this is a pretty extreme case.
CaliGuy Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 This is one for the ladies. Your input welcome. Why is it even with women's ability to sniff out bull****, so many women still fall for jerks? Just want to see your view on the subject. Ah one of my favorite questions to answer! This is VERY easy to explain but hard for women to put into perspective. You meet a guy. He says all the right things, seems cool and confident but a tad selfish at the same time. He usually gets you into the sack right off the bat. He doesn't call often but when he does he expects you to be at his beck and call Soon into the relationship you realize it's all about him and what he wants. Little to no thought is given to your wants/needs. The relationship is very one-sided. You're doing all the giving, he's doing all the taking. You threaten to leave, he vows to change. And he does, for a brief period. Once things settle down, he's back to his old ways. You threaten to leave again, he changes again briefly. And the cycle repeats itself until you find yourself deeply in love with a man who has the total opposite personality and character that you wanted in a man. And since you've showed that you can set a boundary but don't follow through, he knows you are never going to leave. That all your threats are weak. Why does this happen? He's a JERK, right? Yes, he is. But the reason why women fall for them so often is that they SEEM confident and secure but nothing could be further from the truth. JERKS and DOOR MATS have the same issues. Both are deeply insecure but display it in different ways. DOOR MATS try really hard to win people over by being overly nice. JERKS have the "I don't give a f**k about you" attitude to protect themselves. As I said, BOTH are deeply insecure. Both have major faults and neither makes a good life partner. Jerks are much harder to discern because at the beginning of the relationship they are usually on their best behavior. They tell little white lies, they're always on the prowl for someone better however they will keep you around (as long as they are getting laid) in the meantime. It's the ILLUSION of confidence through selfishness that draws women to JERKS. "Wow, this guy isn't chasing me, he isn't kissing my a$$, he must be someone of real value!" WRONG. The ideal, confident man is a BALANCED man. I started a thread about what makes a balanced man (and clarified door mats and jerks) some time ago -- maybe a couple years. The book "No More Mr Nice Guy" (Glover) explains what a confident, balanced man should look like. It explains why dating someone too far to one side of the spectrum (nice/jerk) is bad for you. Ignoring red flags is one of the biggest problems with dating jerks. You see those red flags, especially in the beginning, you know they are there but that animalistic passion keeps you around. Initially the sex seems over the top but once the euphoria settles down, you realize it isn't all that great. And one day, years later, you sit there and wonder how you ended up with a guy like this? You got played (fooled). Not your fault. Happens all the time. The best thing you can do is respect yourself and walk away (and don't fall for the manipulation that follows -- because if he doesn't have someone else in the wings, he's going to use every TRICK in the book to get you to stay). The only way to avoid dating a jerk is to HEED THE RED FLAGS. They are there. Pay attention to them and listen to your head and not your heart. Hope this helps.
sumdude Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 What CaliGuiy said .. and/or the sex is really good.
Vet Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Ah one of my favorite questions to answer! This is VERY easy to explain but hard for women to put into perspective. You meet a guy. He says all the right things, seems cool and confident but a tad selfish at the same time. He usually gets you into the sack right off the bat. He doesn't call often but when he does he expects you to be at his beck and call Soon into the relationship you realize it's all about him and what he wants. Little to no thought is given to your wants/needs. The relationship is very one-sided. You're doing all the giving, he's doing all the taking. You threaten to leave, he vows to change. And he does, for a brief period. Once things settle down, he's back to his old ways. You threaten to leave again, he changes again briefly. And the cycle repeats itself until you find yourself deeply in love with a man who has the total opposite personality and character that you wanted in a man. And since you've showed that you can set a boundary but don't follow through, he knows you are never going to leave. That all your threats are weak. Why does this happen? He's a JERK, right? Yes, he is. But the reason why women fall for them so often is that they SEEM confident and secure but nothing could be further from the truth. JERKS and DOOR MATS have the same issues. Both are deeply insecure but display it in different ways. DOOR MATS try really hard to win people over by being overly nice. JERKS have the "I don't give a f**k about you" attitude to protect themselves. As I said, BOTH are deeply insecure. Both have major faults and neither makes a good life partner. Jerks are much harder to discern because at the beginning of the relationship they are usually on their best behavior. They tell little white lies, they're always on the prowl for someone better however they will keep you around (as long as they are getting laid) in the meantime. It's the ILLUSION of confidence through selfishness that draws women to JERKS. "Wow, this guy isn't chasing me, he isn't kissing my a$$, he must be someone of real value!" WRONG. The ideal, confident man is a BALANCED man. I started a thread about what makes a balanced man (and clarified door mats and jerks) some time ago -- maybe a couple years. The book "No More Mr Nice Guy" (Glover) explains what a confident, balanced man should look like. It explains why dating someone too far to one side of the spectrum (nice/jerk) is bad for you. Ignoring red flags is one of the biggest problems with dating jerks. You see those red flags, especially in the beginning, you know they are there but that animalistic passion keeps you around. Initially the sex seems over the top but once the euphoria settles down, you realize it isn't all that great. And one day, years later, you sit there and wonder how you ended up with a guy like this? You got played (fooled). Not your fault. Happens all the time. The best thing you can do is respect yourself and walk away (and don't fall for the manipulation that follows -- because if he doesn't have someone else in the wings, he's going to use every TRICK in the book to get you to stay). The only way to avoid dating a jerk is to HEED THE RED FLAGS. They are there. Pay attention to them and listen to your head and not your heart. Hope this helps. Damn, Hkizzle. Caliguy just wrote your book!
Author Hkizzle Posted August 18, 2009 Author Posted August 18, 2009 Cali guy, good answer. What I find interesting though is that some women are able to see the difference between the confident jerks and confident well balanced guys easily. Many women that fall for the jerks fall for them repeatedly and aren't able to learn from their mistakes. Got any views on how to spot the difference early on?
JohnP82 Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Maybe they're not falling for them but instead getting what they want. Honestly when I see a girl with a jerk I don't feel bad. Girls like that become instantly unattractive to me so I don't feel like it's my loss.
Cora Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 I didn't read the whole thread, just the title lol. So this may have been mentioned already. From my experience, I have fallen for jerks because of low self esteem, having the fear of not being able to attract any better, and thinking that someday that jerk would change and treat me the way I've always longed to be treated. I thought that maybe if I kept on being that sweet doormat and doing whatever he wanted that he would see how much I truly just want him to like me as a person. I figured maybe one day he would stop being a jerk and learn to care about me the same way I cared about him. But I realized this only caused him to keep treating me this way, because he could and I allowed it.
CaliGuy Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Cali guy, good answer. What I find interesting though is that some women are able to see the difference between the confident jerks and confident well balanced guys easily. The reason for this is that CONFIDENT women can see through the charades of "jerk" men. They are confident in who they are and can spot INSECURITY in men quite quickly. Because they are confident in themselves, they tend to HEED THE RED FLAGS and not fall for the "game" that jerks use to get women hooked. Many women that fall for the jerks fall for them repeatedly and aren't able to learn from their mistakes. Yes, it's INSECURE women who are prone to falling for jerks repeatedly, which leads to my next answer.... Got any views on how to spot the difference early on? Yes. Learn to love and respect yourself. If you do not love and respect yourself, you can not expect others to love and respect you. You must be a confident, well balanced woman in order to spot a confident, well-balanced man. When women are young (18-25 is the most prominent age range) they are still learning the art of dating and men so they are more prone to falling for jerks. The best thing you can do is read books on building your OWN confident and self-esteem. Learn self-respect (you don't NEED a man in your life. Want? Yes. Need? NO!). Men should do the same thing and that is why I recommend "No More Mr Nice Guy" so often. It's the ONE book I know of that explains why door mat nice guys and jerks always lose in the long run. It explains how to build confidence and self-esteem and shows men that walking away from a bad relationship is 10x better than trying to make it work with a "broken" person. In the same context for women, JERKS are "broken men" and no matter how many times you try it, you still can't fit a square peg in a round hole. Sticking it out with JERKS causes far more problems than the benefits the relationship provides. You're much better off picking yourself up, dusting yourself off, getting your confidence and self-esteem rebuilt and finding a BALANCED guy. Cheers.
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