First Post: OW/OM what do you think?

[Owl]

Thanks Owl for your answer. I'm not sure if I've completely forgiven her affair. That's a good question. BTW...an interesting aside...most contemporary therapeutic literature on the subject recommends you not tell your spouse about an affair if you are going to work it out, there are no STD scares, and they will not find out. Not saying I agree...but interesting that everybody that has replied believes the opposite.

 

Realize that "most therapeutic literature" doesn't mean that the majority of what is written is "right". It's just the most popular opinion today.

 

200 years ago the "most therapeutic literature" would have talked about humors being upset in the body...see what I mean?

 

I'd suggest that the reason that the majority of people believes the opposite is because they've actually been through this, on some point of the triangle. Myself included, of course.

 

I don't believe you can fix the issues in a relationship when you don't/can't address them. One of the major issues impacting your marriage right now is your affair...but you can't address that if you don't admit that. You can seek counseling, take all the steps you like...but you're not addressing it, not dealing with it. Not unless it's out in the open and available to be discussed.

 

And if you don't address it...like probably didn't happen when dealing with her affair years ago...it festers, and creates a gaping wound that remains a weak point in your relationship.

 

But if you do address it...it's POSSIBLE to recover, and minimize the damage caused. I'm in a very happily recovered marriage today, after my wife's emotional affair 5 years ago. In our case, it was addressed/dealt with. Had it not been...we wouldn't be where we're at today.

[NoIDidn't]

I'm struggling with it too. Recently we were talking about another couple we know and she said I don't think i would want to know if my partner was cheating if it was over. This messed with my head a little. Was she giving me a message? Either way I am struggling with this decision.

 

Wow, that is interesting. I had said the same thing to my H and family members and didn't know that he was cheating at the time.

 

Maybe on a subconscious level, I knew something was amiss. But I wasn't ready to confront it. And that's why I wouldn't want to know, unless I ask directly. If I don't ask, I haven't decided how I want to deal with it yet.

 

Tell her if she asks, definitely. Given what she's said, I don't think telling, asked or not, will end your marriage. Sounds like she's the forgiving type, or the realistic type.

[jwi71]

Look, Devil Inside...you met your wife by an affair. She's cheated on you and now you on her.

 

Just get divorced...neither one of you sound capable of respecting marriage nor what it entails. Lets face it...some people arent the marrying type and neither of you sound like given the little you have shared.

 

Im not attacking you...just some people are not good spouse material.

 

I would file...or at least sit her down and negotiate an open marriage.

 

But your dreams of a "normal" marriage are not grounded in reality based on what I see.

 

And...hire a lawyer for Pete's sake...in Texas, a parent is forbidden from leaving with the children until the divorce is final. Period. She leaves, the FBI hunts em down (if they leave the state), arrests them for kidnapping and you get your kids back - and likely custody since mom is in jail.

 

Good luck...and Im divorced and my kids are fine...ages 6 and damn near 4. Dont fear it.

[delirious]

You do not have the courage to do what you WANT to do. You should tell your wife, you need to be with the OW. She is what you really want. Will you, in ten years time, think back and realise that is what you should have done with your life and now it really is too late, you are gong to hate your life. You need to do something. If you tell your wife, maybe your soulmate as you call her, will listen to you and take you seriously?. Or you can choose to be with your W. Nobody can help who they fall in love with, sometimes it was just meant to be. You are living in your comfort zone. If I thought my H felt like that about another woman, man would I so not want to be with him. AND if my MM thought like that about me, and he said it, I would say, well DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

[tami-chan]

I am not sure if your marriage can be saved. First, your wife had an affair; Second, you told your wife you are no longer in love with her (why would she still want to be with you?); Third, you are in love with your OW; Fourth, you are deciding to stay because your xOW made the decision for you-actually she was not ok with how you guys met (probably could not live with it) and decided to bail out. Sure you can save the marriage, your wife can settle for you and you can settle for her.

 

Jwi71, I did not read anywhere that he met his wife in an affair or did I read that wrong?

[jwi71]

Jwi71, I did not read anywhere that he met his wife in an affair or did I read that wrong?

 

No...I read it wrong. He was referring to the OW and their possible future...doh!

 

My bad.

[Owl]

You do not have the courage to do what you WANT to do. You should tell your wife, you need to be with the OW. She is what you really want. Will you, in ten years time, think back and realise that is what you should have done with your life and now it really is too late, you are gong to hate your life. You need to do something.

 

OR...he could run off with OW, abandon his wife....and 10 years from now look back and realize that he made the biggest mistake of his life leaving the woman he'd known and loved all along.

 

OR...he could end the affair, stay with his wife and reconcile everything...and 10 years from now look back at this whole thing as one of the stupidest things he's ever done, and deeply regret having started the affair to begin with.

 

There's no way to know WHAT we're going to look back on this moment and think about it.

 

All you can do is make the best decisions NOW that you can.

 

If you tell your wife, maybe your soulmate as you call her, will listen to you and take you seriously?. Or you can choose to be with your W. Nobody can help who they fall in love with, sometimes it was just meant to be. You are living in your comfort zone. If I thought my H felt like that about another woman, man would I so not want to be with him. AND if my MM thought like that about me, and he said it, I would say, well DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

 

Of COURSE we can help who we fall in love with. Love at first sight doesn't exist...you simply don't know that person well enough to "love" them when you first meet them. You can absolutely be in a huge attraction to someone the moment you meet them...completely agreed with that possiblility.

 

But LOVE builds as you feed that relationship...as you invest in it. If you choose not to feed the attraction...if you choose not to act on it...you most certainly can control who you fall in love with.

 

Love is both a feeling and an action. And the two are tied together. If you don't act on the attraction, then you won't "fall in love" with the person you're attracted to. If you instead deliberately STOP feeding the attraction, if you intentionally remove yourself from the presence of the person you're attracted to..."love" won't happen.

 

That's why affairs are never accidents. They're a result of intentional actions to feed a relationship outside of the marriage.

[MistyK]

She definitely made me happy. I wanted to be married to her. She said that would have been an option, but not now. I don't know what will happen in my marriage. I am trying to make it work for the kids, but we'll see. I know that the OW and I have sacraficed our relationship for our families so i am going to be a parent, married or divorced.

 

So...here is my question for all you others. One of the things she has told me is that she feels so horrible and ashamed for being an OW. She doesn't know how she let herself be in that position. She says that the reality is a dirty, ugly thing, and even if we loved each other it hurts. Is there anything that I can tell her that would make her feel better. Or anything I should do.

 

DI,

You sound just like my xMM. Evidently staying in your M was more important than being with your "soul-mate". You made that choice yourself, and you hurt her tremendously. You can't take it back, there are no do-overs. The best thing you can do is let her heal. If you contact her, it isn't about making it easier for her, it's about making it easier for you because you miss her. It would be selfish, and there's been enough selfishness, no?

 

Many of us suffer from humiliation and shame when being an OW. When the A is exposed, men rarely take societal heat - it's all pointed at the OW. We got called wh*res and berated. Our reputation is ruined and then we suffer the humiliation of it all being for nothing because the MM's usually choose to stay with their W. Your OW turned her whole life upside down for you and you did not follow through...she's deeply hurt.

 

I hope you are really sincere about making it work with your W. Something good ought to come out of all of this. But honestly, it sounds like you are with your W by default, and it's easier to stay than to leave. If she's ok with that great, but personally, I would not be ok with someone staying with me out of obligation or default, especially knowing they were in love with someone else.

 

Please don't take this as harsh. It isn't meant to be. I am sure you are doing the best you could with the tools you have. But I hope this at least illuminates her perspective.

[Devil Inside]

Thank you all for the honest feedback. I want to let you know that this thread and reading others in this forum helped me when my OW and I had our final conversation yesterday...one that she requested. I was able to validate for her that I hurt her by choosing to stay in my M. My actions spoke. If I really loved her like I said I did then I would never have been able to get on a plane all those times and leave her standing at the airport alone. I didn't deserve her.

 

I am going to try to make my marriage work. There are huge issues there...obviously...but I have a therapist and he is going to help me out with when to tell my wife. I don't know if she'll stay...that will be her decision. I just know that I screwed up and it's time to do what needs to be done.

 

To all you OW/OM out there and MM/MW...be careful. Guard your heart. I had never cheated before...and I see why...ouch. The aftermath is usually messy. The stats say it's less then one in a hundred that end up married form an affair. I know it happens...but most of the time it just hurts. Again, thanks for the feedback.

[Devil Inside]

DI,

You sound just like my xMM. Evidently staying in your M was more important than being with your "soul-mate". You made that choice yourself, and you hurt her tremendously. You can't take it back, there are no do-overs. The best thing you can do is let her heal. If you contact her, it isn't about making it easier for her, it's about making it easier for you because you miss her. It would be selfish, and there's been enough selfishness, no?

 

Many of us suffer from humiliation and shame when being an OW. When the A is exposed, men rarely take societal heat - it's all pointed at the OW. We got called wh*res and berated. Our reputation is ruined and then we suffer the humiliation of it all being for nothing because the MM's usually choose to stay with their W. Your OW turned her whole life upside down for you and you did not follow through...she's deeply hurt.

 

I hope you are really sincere about making it work with your W. Something good ought to come out of all of this. But honestly, it sounds like you are with your W by default, and it's easier to stay than to leave. If she's ok with that great, but personally, I would not be ok with someone staying with me out of obligation or default, especially knowing they were in love with someone else.

 

Please don't take this as harsh. It isn't meant to be. I am sure you are doing the best you could with the tools you have. But I hope this at least illuminates her perspective.

 

 

Your insight is really right on. I think you capture perfectly what she felt. I will always regret making her feel like that. She is such a beautiful person inside and out...the guy that gets her is winning the lotto!

[joyz]

 

She recently contacted me about having a conversation for closure now that she is less emotional. Problem is I am so hung up on her I can't see how it would be productive. I would end up crying and telling her I want her back. So I asked for time. What could your MM/MW have said in the months following the break up that would have helped?

 

 

tell her the truth, that you never lied to her about your feelings for her, but you have nothing to offer her right now.

 

pls keep posting. its helpful to see posts from the WW side.

[Devil Inside]

tell her the truth, that you never lied to her about your feelings for her, but you have nothing to offer her right now.

 

pls keep posting. its helpful to see posts from the WW side.

 

We had the conversation...I posted about it above. She was glad to hear that this was not a game to me. I really had feelings of love for her. I think it helped her...which was what I was hoping. Now I need to quit being a selfish pig and never contact her again. She deserves to be happy, and that will not happen with me in the picture.

[MistyK]

We had the conversation...I posted about it above. She was glad to hear that this was not a game to me. I really had feelings of love for her. I think it helped her...which was what I was hoping. Now I need to quit being a selfish pig and never contact her again. She deserves to be happy, and that will not happen with me in the picture.

 

Why did you decide to stay in the M? I'm not seeing professions of love for your W. My xMM's deal was that he didn't feel worthy to be loved by anyone and I think he was wildly insecure that I'd leave him when he didn't have the safety net of his W to return to. He was never really emotionally available to either of us.

[Owl]

Why did you decide to stay in the M? I'm not seeing professions of love for your W. My xMM's deal was that he didn't feel worthy to be loved by anyone and I think he was wildly insecure that I'd leave him when he didn't have the safety net of his W to return to. He was never really emotionally available to either of us.

 

Think about this question for a moment...do you believe that the vast majority of MM would EVER confess their love of their wife to the OW?

 

He'd be an idiot to do so...for tons of reasons.

 

Given that the majority have already set the stage by lying to their spouses about their lives...all to avoid the conflict that would be created if their spouse knew about the affair...it's hardly a leap to see that an MM telling his OW that he still loves his wife would be uncommon, because that would create a conflict...that they strive to avoid.

 

And...given the "affair fog"...he probably has no idea what it is he really DOES feel for his wife at this point.

 

They'll come up with all the other reasons not to leave...but they'd almost never admit that they still are in love with their wife. Why would the create a bigger mess than they're already in.

[MistyK]

Owl,

Obviously I don't expect any MM to admit still loving their W (although mine did, just wasn't "in love with" her). I was asking him as an outsider, not as his OW. Sometimes the term "affair fog" is basically used to make the BS feel better about what the WS did. It diminishes any feelings the WS has for the OW/OM and is almost an insanity defense.

 

When I had my EA, there was no confusion. I felt bad about it, but I did not love my H (not in the way a W should anyway) and I wasn't about to try and force myself to. Honestly as a W, it would bother me if my H had to "uncover" some love for me that he "didn't know he had". It rings of insincerity. So I let my H go. I would like to understand why DI wants to work on his M when he doesn't seem invested.

[spiraling downward]

I was/am devastated. She is my soulmate. It is really difficult to live without her. Of course I can make it...but it hurts. She is a beautiful person inside and out and I know I could have made her happy. She definitely made me happy. I wanted to be married to her. She said that would have been an option, but not now. I don't know what will happen in my marriage. I am trying to make it work for the kids, but we'll see. I know that the OW and I have sacraficed our relationship for our families so i am going to be a parent, married or divorced.

 

So...here is my question for all you others. One of the things she has told me is that she feels so horrible and ashamed for being an OW. She doesn't know how she let herself be in that position. She says that the reality is a dirty, ugly thing, and even if we loved each other it hurts. Is there anything that I can tell her that would make her feel better. Or anything I should do. A part of me says that I should leave her alone. That is best thing for her and me. She recently contacted me about having a conversation for closure now that she is less emotional. Problem is I am so hung up on her I can't see how it would be productive. I would end up crying and telling her I want her back. So I asked for time. What could your MM/MW have said in the months following the break up that would have helped?

 

I know that I don't deserve my wife or my kids for what I have done. In time I will post my story and it is probably similar to many. I have felt lonely in my marriage. My affair felt like the closest I've ever been to true happiness...but that's for another time. Thank you for your time and opinions.

 

If I were you... I would take this break in the action to actively divorce your wife. You can make a clean break now without the distraction of another woman. Of course, you may want to consider the financial consequences to yourself. Divorce is expensive!!!

[Devil Inside]

Fair points Misty and Owl. Do I love my wife. Yes. I have not treated her in a loving fashion...I know that. I don't think I am "in love" with her. However, I think that it is unfair to expect that I would have the feelings of infatuation I had with my OW in a 10 month affair for my wife eight years into marriage. I think I am very immature when it comes to being in a real long-term intimate relationship. My W has many reasons to leave me. I am hoping she will stick it out with me and see if we can work through this. We have kids together and we have been a couple for over a decade (a third of my life).

 

I have many childhood issues that make this all so difficult. I know I am lucky to have had so many women fall in love with me. I think they like rescuing the brooding deep bad boy. However, I need to try to be in a mature relationship...because even if my W is not the right one, I need to get to the point where I can be the right one.

[spiraling downward]

Thanks for your honesty GG. You're right I do need to commit either way. This is why I haven't contacted my OW. i don't want to unless I am available to her. You're right it was disrespectful for me to make her sneak around...she is so much better than that and deserves more. In fact...I probably don't deserve her. Knowing how karma works I'll get a divorce, call her and her new fiance will answer the phone.

 

Ok... here's the man to man talk here. From what you are writing, you are sounding scared to be without a woman. When I left and divorced my ex for my MW... I had absolutely no guarantee that my MW would leave her marriage. I had to resolve for myself that my life would be better without my ex, no matter what my MW did. That was my mindset. In fact, I actually did leave my MW for a short time as well... so she could work on her marriage... of course, she really didn't want that at all.

 

You have to come to a peace with yourself that no matter what happens... you would make it and be all right on your own.

[spiraling downward]

What about your wife does she deserve you lying to her and cheating on her? Tell her the truth so you can both live happy lives with someone you really love. Your other woman is a smart woman and is not going to accept less. If you really love her you would be willing to be honest and leave your wife.

 

Why is it women find it so much easier? She divorced and you let her down by taking no steps at all.

 

Well, I'm a man and I left my marriage first... MW was dragging her feet, so I'm not sure what you mean by "women find it so much easier?"

[Devil Inside]

Ok... here's the man to man talk here. From what you are writing, you are sounding scared to be without a woman. When I left and divorced my ex for my MW... I had absolutely no guarantee that my MW would leave her marriage. I had to resolve for myself that my life would be better without my ex, no matter what my MW did. That was my mindset. In fact, I actually did leave my MW for a short time as well... so she could work on her marriage... of course, she really didn't want that at all.

 

You have to come to a peace with yourself that no matter what happens... you would make it and be all right on your own.

 

You are right...I am afraid to be alone. I guess I'm trying to sort out whether it's that or what we do have that keeps me trying in my M. Either way, I'm working in therapy to reach a point where I am good with myself. Thanks for the support spiraling.

[Owl]

Misty and Devil, you both raise good points.

 

One of the "hallmark phrases" that often indicate that there's someone else in the picture is when the BS hears the "ILYBINILWY" speech.

 

ILYBINILWY= "I love you, but I'm not IN LOVE with you".

 

Like I said...it's heard nearly every single time. Even the both of you have described the exact same feelings for your spouses during your affairs. My wife didn't use this exact phrase, but something that meant the very same thing.

 

We talked about this during her affair after d-day and during our recovery. We also discussed this concept at length with our MC during this time as well.

 

The bottom line was that you only get OUT of a relationship what you put into it. My wife wasn't "in love" with me during her affair...because she had stopped putting anything INTO our relationship during that time. She was emotionally investing in OM...and as a result, emotionally withdrawing from me.

 

Odds are that this is a very, very common circumstance for anyone in an affair.

 

And what was amazing to my wife was how quickly her feelings "came back" after the affair ended, she went through the grieving process, and then started to pick up the pieces afterwards.

 

It's hardly surprising that you feel emotionally distant to the spouse that you're betraying, when you stop to think about it. Not only does SOMETHING create a rift to begin with that sets the stage for the affair to happen...but then as you continue to invest in the OW/OM...you stop investing in your spouse.

 

And the reverse tends to be true, assuming that the relationship was semi-functional for any length of time prior to the affair...when you resume investing in the relationship...the feelings build.

 

And that's hope for your marriage, Devil.

[MistyK]

Fair points Misty and Owl. Do I love my wife. Yes. I have not treated her in a loving fashion...I know that. I don't think I am "in love" with her. However, I think that it is unfair to expect that I would have the feelings of infatuation I had with my OW in a 10 month affair for my wife eight years into marriage. I think I am very immature when it comes to being in a real long-term intimate relationship. My W has many reasons to leave me. I am hoping she will stick it out with me and see if we can work through this. We have kids together and we have been a couple for over a decade (a third of my life).

 

I have many childhood issues that make this all so difficult. I know I am lucky to have had so many women fall in love with me. I think they like rescuing the brooding deep bad boy. However, I need to try to be in a mature relationship...because even if my W is not the right one, I need to get to the point where I can be the right one.

 

I sense that same fear of abandonment my xMM had in your posts. Maybe you were terribly reluctant to give up your M because it provided a safety net if OW rejected you - and that became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

You are right that being M for 8 years is not the same as a heated 10 month affair. But it isn't about making comparisons here. Honestly, whatever you decide about your M has to be a seperate decision having nothing to do with the OW. A relavent factor I think may be why you cheated in the 1st place. Were you just restless? (Then maybe you should stay with your W) or had you found that your relationship with your W was never really completely fulfilling, and diminishing as time went on despite your efforts to make things better? (in which case, you will probably be happier divorced).

[Devil Inside]

Owl, you speak the truth my brother. When I was in my A I even stopped being physically intimate with my W. I couldn't initiate because I wasn't attracted and felt I was betraying my OW. I know this sounds sick...but honestly this is how I felt. I had a good talk with my wife last night. Some of the things I felt were missing from our marriage were things that she said she missed too. Long ago I had stopped being romantic, sensual and sexual. Throw in two kids, bills, two jobs, and a house and viola you have the makings for a big void. My OW told me yesterday that I had to give my heart to my W. She said that she hoped I could and that she hoped our scrafice wouldn't be for nothing.

 

I agree Owl..you get what you put in.

[Devil Inside]

Misty I do have childhood abandonment issues...big time. My mother left me. So I got mommy issues. However, I have done a lot of work on myself to get to a point where I can have a shot at being happy. I will definitely really look at my marriage as a standalone topic.

[spiraling downward]

You are right...I am afraid to be alone. I guess I'm trying to sort out whether it's that or what we do have that keeps me trying in my M. Either way, I'm working in therapy to reach a point where I am good with myself. Thanks for the support spiraling.

 

I have to say that I would much prefer to have a woman around as well... I know it's difficult to jump out of a seemingly comfortable lifestyle, even if you can't stand to be around your wife... I guess in my case... my wife and I were separated for well over a year before we tried to make a go of it again... that four months we were together, it seems like I had to make all the changes... even though my wife had ran around with other men way before I ever cheated on her. I had lost all respect for my wife and I really didn't care or love her... so my subsequent actions of getting into an affair myself really didn't bother my conscience at all. So.... I guess what I'm saying is that maybe you ought to just seperate now... and let your marriage die the slow death. It might make divorcing easier in a year or two. At least you will be used to living on your own.