Questions for both sides

[Pillow]

That is honest and fair as far as I am concerned. I am not proud of my choices at all, but I do wonder if the OW is (and rightly so) seen in such contempt how anyone could forgive the W/H for the betrayal that in reality they had the control over.

 

And before you assume, I am not against reconciliation but when one holds so much venom for one participant I do wonder how it is possible to not hold the same for the other participant, who in fact knew and cared about the person they hurt and was solely responsible for risking the family core.

 

This is a great question Sana, but you know this answer. What will you have the BS do? The venom is there Sana, but she can't murder him. If you were in her shoes, would your reaction be any different?

[SidLyon]

...I put my anger on the on person who deserved it - the H.... I would do the same as a BS...

 

This is what I would have said too the day before d-day.

 

I can say that everything I believed about infidelity and my own reaction to it got thrown out the window on d-day.

 

S

[Sanafa]

This is a great question Sana, but you know this answer. What will you have the BS do? The venom is there Sana, but she can't murder him. If you were in her shoes, would your reaction be any different?

 

 

I would never say I would "leave" but I am confident he would wear the brunt of the anger...

 

Truly, I think placing it on someone else is like placing a murder solely on the accomplice.... someone pulled the trigger and that would be were I personally would be looking to for blood.

 

But on the flip of that... I can see a BS going ...wohhooo.... yeah, let's go the OW route, sounds sad really when you think they didn't have to own it to the same level as the OW when they are the one who personally cared about the BS

[Sanafa]

This is what I would have said too the day before d-day.

 

I can say that everything I believed about infidelity and my own reaction to it got thrown out the window on d-day.

 

S

 

You can say that, and as I just said... I would never suggest I would be out the door... but my actions have been to place my anger * earned or not on him.... I can't even fathom putting on her

 

I seriously need to know the person to direct such anger at anyone.... I don't know her so can't really place the feeling on her, and perhaps that is just me.

[Sanafa]

Here is my theory of emotion

 

 

Hurt can only occur if you care

 

 

Anger is a extreme and direct result of Hurt/Pain which again can only occur if you care.

 

So for me, since I wouldn't care about the OW and certainly have no previous feeling.... I am 100% with my beliefs and personality, the H would be the one paying the piper.

 

I cared about his W in an extension as I loved him and his children....

[SidLyon]

 

...I seriously need to know the person to direct such anger at anyone.... I don't know her so can't really place the feeling on her, and perhaps that is just me.

 

I don't believe you Sana - the anger and vitriol you have directed at other people on this discussion board is evidence that you are capable of directing anger at someone you don't know.

 

It's my opinion that you have very little insight into yourself.

 

S

[Pillow]

I would never say I would "leave" but I am confident he would wear the brunt of the anger...

 

Truly, I think placing it on someone else is like placing a murder solely on the accomplice.... someone pulled the trigger and that would be were I personally would be looking to for blood.

 

But on the flip of that... I can see a BS going ...wohhooo.... yeah, let's go the OW route, sounds sad really when you think they didn't have to own it to the same level as the OW when they are the one who personally cared about the BS

 

You can say that, and as I just said... I would never suggest I would be out the door... but my actions have been to place my anger * earned or not on him.... I can't even fathom putting on her

 

I seriously need to know the person to direct such anger at anyone.... I don't know her so can't really place the feeling on her, and perhaps that is just me.

 

 

If I were you Sana, I wouldn't judge a person in pain, until I was that person. Until I felt those emotions, those feelings, that situation... I wouldn't delete them. I can't ever fathom being starving so much that I barely get the energy to swallow food.

 

It seems to me you are turning up your nose. "Oh, I could never be like her"

 

Let's just hope, you never will.

[Sanafa]

I don't believe you Sana - the anger and vitriol you have directed at other people on this discussion board is evidence that you are capable of directing anger at someone you don't know.

 

It's my opinion that you have very little insight into yourself.

 

S

 

Words typed and you can tell that much.. you're good.

 

Not all, in fact considering what has been dished I think I have given it back equally but certainly not more than the other.

 

That is the other thing.... I find "getting angry on the internet funny"... I can dig, no question and tit for tat... but that is while I am doing three other things and have no real emotional commitment to it.

[tami-chan]

Okay, maybe it was the way you worded it, or it's just me!

 

I think it's allowed for a BS to feel anger at the OW or OM. And, anyone who believes that anger isn't 100 times stronger for the WS is foolin' themselves... The anger gets spread around.

 

Well...I was not angry at the OW and she called and came to MY house! I was, however, upset at my husband for not protecting me from her, In my world, I should be untouchable( or unreachable) by OWs. She was the only OW that ever contacted me.

 

The OW puts alot of her anger, frustration pain, whatever on the wife, like the wife manipulated and held a gun to the MM's head so he could come back home.

 

And understandably so! The MM uses the W as the reason to deflect the anger....but you know as well as I know, that many Betrayed Partners would use their children as leverage and also threaten to sue the living daylights of the WS for money...that's symbolically "putting the gun to his head"! ( and why not, right? show the man what he is losing!)

 

an OW should have no anger or resentment towards the wife, it should be only directed at the MM.

 

Only if the MM has the courage to say " I am staying for my own reasons" and not say...:"my wife threatened to do this and that...."

[SidLyon]

Words typed and you can tell that much.. you're good.

 

Not all, in fact considering what has been dished I think I have given it back equally but certainly not more than the other.

 

That is the other thing.... I find "getting angry on the internet funny"... I can dig, no question and tit for tat... but that is while I am doing three other things and have no real emotional commitment to it.

 

I used the words "belief" and "opinion" - words of respect and acknowledgment that they are not "facts". Already you twist my words and say I can "tell".

 

I find it strange that you have no emotional commitment to anything angry you write on the internet. I really think this forum which is full of people experiencing real pain and hurt is not right for such a person who finds it "funny". Are there any other sites that could provide you with a better class of humour? Just my opinion of course.

 

S

[Sanafa]

I used the words "belief" and "opinion" - words of respect and acknowledgment that they are not "facts". Already you twist my words and say I can "tell".

 

I find it strange that you have no emotional commitment to anything angry you write on the internet. I really think this forum which is full of people experiencing real pain and hurt is not right for such a person who finds it "funny". Are there any other sites that could provide you with a better class of humour? Just my opinion of course.

S

 

And mine is that while it is great to have support, no one should logically be looking here for answers. Again imo, as I said there is no way to share enough information without sharing too much for anyone to actually give advice that is correct, you can't advise when you don't know.

 

And again, by choice I refuse to give debating with anyone the power to actually get me worked up or have me stewing about something that was said by someone I don't know behind a keyboard.

 

Reality is a beautiful thing, you have to be able to put it in the context it deserves.

 

All of us are in pain and hurting but if someone is in real need of direction, no one here is suited to provide the helpful answers, and in fact can cause more pain by misleading based on lack of knowledge and should clearly be directed to IC/MC.... Again, imo

[SidLyon]

And mine is that while it is great to have support, no one should logically be looking here for answers. Again imo, as I said there is no way to share enough information without sharing too much for anyone to actually give advice that is correct, you can't advise when you don't know.

 

And again, by choice I refuse to give debating with anyone the power to actually get me worked up or have me stewing about something that was said by someone I don't know behind a keyboard.

 

Reality is a beautiful thing, you have to be able to put it in the context it deserves.

 

All of us are in pain and hurting but if someone is in real need of direction, no one here is suited to provide the helpful answers, and in fact can cause more pain by misleading based on lack of knowledge and should clearly be directed to IC/MC.... Again, imo

 

I'm interpreting what you are saying as that this little debate between us has run its course.

[Sanafa]

I'm interpreting what you are saying as that this little debate between us has run its course.

 

Honestly... I thought we had moved passed it a couple posts ago. I am fine with differencing opinions and like hearing different viewpoints.

 

Maybe I missed it.... are we still dancing?

[tami-chan]

I used the words "belief" and "opinion" - words of respect and acknowledgment that they are not "facts". Already you twist my words and say I can "tell".

 

I find it strange that you have no emotional commitment to anything angry you write on the internet. I really think this forum which is full of people experiencing real pain and hurt is not right for such a person who finds it "funny". Are there any other sites that could provide you with a better class of humour? Just my opinion of course.

 

S

 

Sidlyon, no disrespect intended but you seem to really be intent on "getting" Sanafa on just about anything...whether it is about what she believes on why her M went back to his wife....or whether it is how she presents her thoughts ... or you know that "she seems wonderful, no wonder he chose her over you (or whatever the quote was)" was a badly masked dig...if you are honest about it....maybe YOU should step back and examine your own heart....she already told you...she is NOT OkSANA, your H's OW.

 

BTW, if Sanafa was not in some emotional conumdrum, she won't be here...we all are...some deeper cuts more than other...but there is no way of knowing really on how deep. You have no right, really, to tell her to go somewhere else....

[SidLyon]

Sidlyon, no disrespect intended but you seem to really be intent on "getting" Sanafa on just about anything...whether it is about what she believes on why her M went back to his wife....or whether it is how she presents her thoughts ... or you know that "she seems wonderful, no wonder he chose her over you (or whatever the quote was)" was a badly masked dig...if you are honest about it....maybe YOU should step back and examine your own heart....she already told you...she is NOT OkSANA, your H's OW.

 

Tami - you have pointed out to me that I do in fact owe Sanafa an apology for that particular comment as throughout our exchange I have been aware that it was probably the most unnecessary and intentionally catty thing I wrote. So I am sorry Sanafa that I said it.

 

Back to Tami; my perception of you is that you are more likely to call out BWs for transgressions than OW. You called me out above but have not criticised Sanafa - this is your right but it is my right to notice it.

 

BTW, if Sanafa was not in some emotional conumdrum, she won't be here...we all are...some deeper cuts more than other...but there is no way of knowing really on how deep. You have no right, really, to tell her to go somewhere else....

 

I actually object when people on these boards tell people to go somewhere else. My comment was a reflection of Sanafa herself telling someone else to do it - or maybe it was just requesting that someone not respond to her. Either way I was trying to suggest that there might be other sites that provide better humour if that's what she wants. My comment was facetious though - please be assured that I agree that I have no right to tell anybody to go elsewhere.

 

S

[Sanafa]

I actually object when people on these boards tell people to go somewhere else. My comment was a reflection of Sanafa herself telling someone else to do it - or maybe it was just requesting that someone not respond to her. Either way I was trying to suggest that there might be other sites that provide better humour if that's what she wants. My comment was facetious though - please be assured that I agree that I have no right to tell anybody to go elsewhere.

 

S

 

 

I asked her to refrain from posting directly relating to me, and actually said there was lots to see and do here. I did not suggest she leave the board, simply that she not interact with me.

 

Syd.... I apologize as well, as we have both admitted we can dig back. I have tried not too and the comment did have me engaging, no better than you....so as I said just above imo, we had moved from personal attacks to opinions and unless I am incorrect welcome a fair conversation.

 

As for my own pain... to be honest, I would not post in the infidelity forum expecting support, I truly would not.... and yes we all have our prices to pay with what happens in Affairs... and they are difficult on all three. I posted her to better understand everyone's view and of course to ask questions regarding things that I have a difficult time understanding "sitting on my side of the fence"

 

Should the consensus be that I not continue to post in this area of the board, I will certainly respect that.

[SidLyon]

Honestly... I thought we had moved passed it a couple posts ago. I am fine with differencing opinions and like hearing different viewpoints.

 

Maybe I missed it.... are we still dancing?

 

Sana - my pain is real. I am trying to move on - reestablish things with my WH. I am more than 9 months passed d-day now but some things are still raw. I expect they will be for you too for a long time to come. I said to you much earlier that the MM-OW part of the triangle has a very long time to prepare for a d-day. I suspect that unless they have been through it before they have no idea what it will really be like especially if there is an understanding between them that the A will end at d-day. I can only imagine that ending an A when people still care for each other must be just terrible. Probably about as bad as ending a marriage when the people still care for each other.

 

That is exactly what I was faced with on d-day. It wasn't my doing though because I was placed in that position by 2 people one of whom had very clear obligations/commitments to me and the other who (perhaps) thought she had none. Either way the triangle was created because my H had invited her in.

 

[Opinion alert] OW who ignore that they are in a triangle are flying in the face of reality - it is not 2 independent parallel relationship in which the MM happens to be involved in both. It is a triangle. I haven't properly thought through the implications if both APs are married - 2 intersecting triangles - maybe a square?

 

S

[Sanafa]

Sana - my pain is real. I am trying to move on - reestablish things with my WH. I am more than 9 months passed d-day now but some things are still raw. I expect they will be for you too for a long time to come. I said to you much earlier that the MM-OW part of the triangle has a very long time to prepare for a d-day. I suspect that unless they have been through it before they have no idea what it will really be like especially if there is an understanding between them that the A will end at d-day. I can only imagine that ending an A when people still care for each other must be just terrible. Probably about as bad as ending a marriage when the people still care for each other.

 

That is exactly what I was faced with on d-day. It wasn't my doing though because I was placed in that position by 2 people one of whom had very clear obligations/commitments to me and the other who (perhaps) thought she had none. Either way the triangle was created because my H had invited her in.

 

[Opinion alert] OW who ignore that they are in a triangle are flying in the face of reality - it is not 2 independent parallel relationship in which the MM happens to be involved in both. It is a triangle. I haven't properly thought through the implications if both APs are married - 2 intersecting triangles - maybe a square?

 

S

 

And reading that makes me emotional ( I know).... for several reasons. Like I said when we started our journey, we thought we were in control primarily because we are in the corporate world and thought we were "different". We talked about DDay.... and there is NO WAY we could have prepared for what happened and the pain that was to come. Neither of us would ever describe ourselves as malicious but let me tell when faced with what his W learned and found out.... that was the only reality.

 

Wow... you hit something there.

 

Whew, I have a great deal of guilt and guilt about the fact that yes, we both agreed to move on, but of course there is a part that truly misses him, is angry with him and truly still cares very much. But because I am that person, I really did care about her as well, because the pain hurt him/his girls and her and they are all an extension of someone I loved.

 

I struggle with the enormousy of it, and my god if anyone AP thinks they have it under control.... they are sadly sadly mistaken. Our lives will never be the same, ever.... and that very much includes people that should never have been placed in that situation, like his W.

 

We are not even into a full month of NC and only about 7 weeks past DDay... raw is an understatement and because I have to function because of my company and other commitments I have to draw on my "business/colder" self..... it is really survival at the moment.

[jwi71]

We are not even into a full month of NC and only about 7 weeks past DDay... raw is an understatement and because I have to function because of my company and other commitments I have to draw on my "business/colder" self..... it is really survival at the moment.

 

Why did you continue to contact him/respond to him after dday? Were you still continuing the affair?

[Gamine]

We've all had relationships that were difficult to move past or to let go. It is a fact of life. It is a consequence of living. There are the moments when you believe you could never imagine yourself with anyone else. Then 5 years pass and you look back wondering how you could have ever thought that.

 

Getting past a relationship with someone you love... when it is over... is the same whether your boyfriend is married or single. The complications, if any, are generally what differentiates the two. And, that you have another person who they are involved with angry with you.

 

What surprises me the most, it seems, is how surprised the OW is that the spouse has anger towards them for sleeping with or dating their husband/wife. The rationalization being that the MP is the one with the commitment so, hey, no one should have an attitude with me....! Well, even if the people in the relationship weren't married... I don't know of any girlfriend or boyfriend who isn't angry at the person who became involved with who they are seeing. It is utterly ridiculous to say that this dynamic of anger and resentment only occurs in affairs involving married partners. It is with all committed or semi committed relationships.

 

For heaven's sake. Some employers have a problem with their employees moonlighting for a fear of there existing a problem with who they are aligned with as a priority.

 

Letting people go and moving on is a part of life.

[silktricks]

I would never say I would "leave" but I am confident he would wear the brunt of the anger...

 

Truly, I think placing it on someone else is like placing a murder solely on the accomplice.... someone pulled the trigger and that would be were I personally would be looking to for blood.

 

But on the flip of that... I can see a BS going ...wohhooo.... yeah, let's go the OW route, sounds sad really when you think they didn't have to own it to the same level as the OW when they are the one who personally cared about the BS

 

I don't understand the last paragraph, so can't comment on that, however...

 

I think most OW assume the OW gets the brunt of the anger and the WS gets off "scott free" in a reconciliation because they do not see here the anger that is expressed directly to the husband. A reconciliation will not be successful if the anger is not dealt with directly. Because we have a chance to deal with that anger directly with our spouses (sometimes with the aid of a marriage counselor) it eventually becomes diffused and disapates.

 

The anger towards the OW is usually never dealt with. It can dissipate over time, but it definitely takes a longer route. LS is probably one of the ways I personally dealt with my anger.

[Sanafa]

Why did you continue to contact him/respond to him after dday? Were you still continuing the affair?

 

We were in contact through the first two weeks everyday. As I said, when we talked prior about a DDay and what would happen, we thought we knew and it would be "easier".... it was anything but for either of us.

 

We did not continue on the "affair" in a manner which you would think, but we certainly provided continued support for each other while the initial decisions ( stay or go on his part) were made. I initially came to realize the guilt would be too much, we really aren't wired that way and I had to be honest about not being sure if we could move forward and he had to be honest about wanting to save his life.

 

This was a first time for us.... I had no knowledge of what we were "suppose" to do.... no book with instructions, and we went with what we thought we should be doing.

 

And Gammon I agree relationships are hard no matter but I have to say in my opinion a full blown EA/PA is by far the hardest.

 

For so many reasons. The decision to end it wasn't based on the normal "we aren't getting along" scenario and the truth we didn't only have to deal with "breaking up" but also the guilt, pain and realization of what our actions had done to innocent people.

 

Before DDay you can say " we are all adults, blah blah blah" but hurting someone to that extent is nothing you can prepare yourself for. It was and most likely will remain the hardest thing I have ever had to get over.

[silktricks]

Should the consensus be that I not continue to post in this area of the board, I will certainly respect that.

 

I hope you continue posting on any forum where you find topics of interest. Please do be prepared to not like everything that may be posted in response to your posts, though!!

[silktricks]

Well...I was not angry at the OW and she called and came to MY house! I was, however, upset at my husband for not protecting me from her, In my world, I should be untouchable( or unreachable) by OWs. She was the only OW that ever contacted me.

 

 

 

And understandably so! The MM uses the W as the reason to deflect the anger....but you know as well as I know, that many Betrayed Partners would use their children as leverage and also threaten to sue the living daylights of the WS for money...that's symbolically "putting the gun to his head"! ( and why not, right? show the man what he is losing!)

 

 

 

Only if the MM has the courage to say " I am staying for my own reasons" and not say...:"my wife threatened to do this and that...."

 

:lmao: If he had that, there probably would not have been the situation in the first place!!!

 

And if the OW gets a ride on her anger towards the BS - because of what the MM said - then it probably works in the other way too ---- because there are very few (if any?) MM's who say - "oh honey, it was all my fault, she had nothing to do with it" when he's trying his damnedest to diffuse his wife's anger!

[NoIDidn't]

No, a dig would mean there was no reality to it and I was grasping.

 

Listen, seriously, if I wanted to dig I would, trust me, and you would certainly be deserving since I have politely asked you several times to refrain from participating with me, or directly at me.

 

The fact that you continue even when being asked to refrain ( lots to do and see here) speaks volumes of your neediness.... not charming in any capacity.

 

I have not referenced or quoted you in any other area.... I would greatly appreciate it if you showed some class and honored my request to do the same.

 

I am not aware of a poster having the authority to actually tell and expect others to not post on a thread they posted. So, as far as I know, I can continue to post in this thread as frequently as I desire.

 

I don't know why you have to start calling me needy or other pointless insults. My posts bring out a truly ugly side of you. A side that was apparent from your first post claiming to want both sides.

 

I have disagreed with you. I have apologized for my tone in a previous post. But all you have done is lie claiming that I misquoted you. All you have done is attempt to insult me with nasty remarks and the like. It would be so nice if you would show the class you claim to be demanding.

 

Its really funny reading your obvious double-speak. In one post you attempt to demean me by saying that I post in multiple areas. In the above QUOTED one, you try to tell me to go away and post in one of the many other areas in LS. You can't have it both ways, and yet you try. Its one of the ironies about reading your posts.

 

I will say it again. You have barely attempted to understand the other side. Most of this thread has been about you wondering why the BW has accepted a reconciliation attempt from the MM that you are supposedly in NC with. I have hoped that you would actually learn something beyong the stereotypes that you have chosen to believe. But you have attacked me instead.

 

As long as this thread remains interesting, I will continue to post on it. You are free to put me on Ignore. I have missed wherever you claim to have "politely" asked me anything.