Questions for both sides

[herenow]

Yup. I agree. I have the infractions to prove that they monitor pretty well here.

 

Yup, I was denied access for two weeks because I used the word "ugly" to describe someone's actions. Truth is, they were ugly and I would say it again. But I didn't so please no infraction today.

[tami-chan]

Yup. I agree. I have the infractions to prove that they monitor pretty well here.

 

not really, they (actually only ONE person) only "monitor" the posts that are brought to their (his) attention. So unless the person concern alerts the monitor or other posters(allies ) take it upon themselves to alert the monitor nothing generally gets done. The monitor(s) has a very busy, full life aside from LS.

[bentnotbroken]

Yup, I was denied access for two weeks because I used the word "ugly" to describe someone's actions. Truth is, they were ugly and I would say it again. But I didn't so please no infraction today.

 

 

Got you beat...I got a 3 weeker.

[herenow]

not really, they (actually only ONE person) only "monitor" the posts that are brought to their (his) attention. So unless the person concern alerts the monitor or other posters(allies ) take it upon themselves to alert the monitor nothing generally gets done. The monitor(s) has a very busy, full life aside from LS.

 

Yes, I'm sure the mods are very busy and that is why I say they do a good job here. I'm thankful for all they do.

[Sanafa]

So, here is the thing. Not only is this a public forum, you asked for opinions and comments from both sides. You can't censor posts. I don't like some of the things that have been said on this thread and others, but I would always defend anyones right to say them. The mods are very good at letting us know when we have gone over the line, so I leave that to them.

 

I am not suggesting any posts get censored on either side.

 

And maybe it is just my logic.... but this is my opinion in a nutshell.

 

NID and I clearly do not get along......I do believe ( saying it again) I have a right to ask anyone not to refer to me, as it is a public board. Can I enforce it, of course not.

 

However she keeps suggesting I am going at her.... I have not acknoweldge her in any other capacity other than to respond to her...so my solution, let's move on...... It takes the conversation off topic and doesn't solve anything.

 

Again, perhaps to simple, but my opinion. We are not going to magically agree, I don't like her online persona, she doesn't like mine... and that is ok.

 

And while I may not agree with everyone, of course everyone has a right to be heard, I simply see no benefit to continue playing the same song with one particular poster. I have jarred with a couple, yet we have found a way to co-exsist, IMO, that will not happen with NID, primarily in this thread.... don't care about her opinions anywhere else or at anyone else, but I have asked politely early on to not address me.

 

She doesn't have to honor that request, and I will address her assumptions or opinions however it seems childish.

 

Like I said, if it were me.... I would honor the request and move on, and have clearly said if someone prefer I don't participate in this area of the board, will be more than happy not to.

 

Not about censoring, it's about respecting.

[herenow]

I

Not about censoring, it's about respecting.

 

You may have opened up a can of worms by using the word respect. Just saying.

 

As far as moving on. Good idea.

[Sanafa]

You may have opened up a can of worms by using the word respect. Just saying.

 

As far as moving on. Good idea.

 

 

Perhaps... .but then again respect to me is a two-way street.

[tami-chan]

So, I'm at work and I don't have time to read 11 pages, but I just wanted to answer from my POV.

 

First, many BW don't fight for a MM who cheated on them. Many, including myself, would rather be without their H if he would rather be with an OW. Many, again including myself, insisted that their MM leave when they found out about the cheating. So, no I don't think you can say that the BW is "needy" or has low self-esteem or whatever.

 

In many cases, it's the MM who comes back begging to do anything to get the BW to take him back. I never threatened him, I just asked him to leave. I never used the kids. As a matter of fact, I made an appointment with a therapist the day after d-day. Not to talk about our marriage, to talk about the best way to deal with the kids and divorce. To make sure that we were successful parents even though our marriage was over. Finances are not an issues, we both have our own businesses and would be fine apart. Embarrassment of divorce is not an issue. We both have family and friends who have gotten divorced for similar reasons and remain good parents in spite of it.

 

I have had many private conversations with other BW who have the same story as I do. I think the self-esteem problems lye with the MM. I think the affair is all about the MM and his issues. I really don't think affairs have anything to do with the BW or the OW. It's all about the MM getting something he is missing inside him. If the OW is willing to provide that, then he gets his fix. In many cases, the fog lifts when the MM realizes what he is about to lose. Then the begging begins. But, like I said, it's not the BW doing the begging. JMO

 

Good post, herenow! Thanks!

[herenow]

Good post, herenow! Thanks!

 

Thanks TC, everyone has their own story to tell. Many are the same, but not all.

 

I also think that MM will leave if they want to be with the OW. We have seen that here on LS.

 

I think the statistics about MM who leave are incorrect. IMO, there may be many marriages that have ended after an affair that we don't know about. I'm sure there are MM who never tell the BW that there is an OW. They just leave and move on without being honest about the fact that an OW exists. I'm not saying that the marriage shouldn't have ended. I'm saying that MM will leave when they want to.

 

I'm not even sure I believe in the "fog" in the first place. But, that's a whole other thread.

[silktricks]

 

What I find bizarre is NID is worried about recovery but then suggests to me that I may not be in NC with my MM. Most often our own fears are placed on others.......

 

You have a problem with NID. Why oh why do you not place her on ignore?

[Sanafa]

Thanks TC, everyone has their own story to tell. Many are the same, but not all.

 

I also think that MM will leave if they want to be with the OW. We have seen that here on LS.

 

I think the statistics about MM who leave are incorrect. IMO, there may be many marriages that have ended after an affair that we don't know about. I'm sure there are MM who never tell the BW that there is an OW. They just leave and move on without being honest about the fact that an OW exists. I'm not saying that the marriage shouldn't have ended. I'm saying that MM will leave when they want to.

 

I'm not even sure I believe in the "fog" in the first place. But, that's a whole other thread.

 

No.... no, not another thread....

 

I would love to hear your view on the fog. It was one of the first things I was "taught" about.

 

And I questioned it, but I guess I now see the fog as the emotional state we were in following DDay. For me, Fog is the days I literally cannot recall because of emotions, tears,etc.

 

I can remember the early first two days or so, but can't really recall any specific's.... so I see that as fog and that was my question about "fog in the affair".... I can recall all of my past year, simply not the emotional bursts that occurred just after DDay.

[herenow]

No.... no, not another thread....

 

I would love to hear your view on the fog. It was one of the first things I was "taught" about.

 

And I questioned it, but I guess I now see the fog as the emotional state we were in following DDay. For me, Fog is the days I literally cannot recall because of emotions, tears,etc.

 

I can remember the early first two days or so, but can't really recall any specific's.... so I see that as fog and that was my question about "fog in the affair".... I can recall all of my past year, simply not the emotional bursts that occurred just after DDay.

 

I see the emotions as dealing with the punches that life throws you. If we used the "fog" as a way to describe every difficult situation, we would all be spending part of life in a "fog". IMO it's just a word that is used to excuse actions. Saying it wasn't real because MM (or anyone) was in a "fog" is complete BS (and I don't mean betrayed spouse).

 

It's like saying, I didn't know what I was doing, so don't blame me. In answer to your original question, of course the MM knows what he is doing. He just doesn't realize what the consequences are. He thinks he won't get caught. When reality hits and it doesn't go down that way, no "fog" is going to keep him from the consequences that his actions bring.

 

It's more like fantasy verses reality. In the MM fantasy he has both his wife and the OW. In reality, I would hope that neither women would go for that. Fact is, the OW is accepting the fantasy and that is why I think many people say that the OW has the self-esteem issue. Which gets back to your original post.

 

The BW has no knowledge of the affair and can't make a choice based on the truth. The OW does and continues the affair anyway. It's not that I feel the OW owes anything to the BW, I think she owes it to herself. Again, this is why you see many comments about the OW's self-esteem. She is the one that has made the choice to be in a relationship with a MM. Sure he is the one cheating, but the OW only has herself to blame when she is hurt, or I guess I should say if she is hurt. I think affairs have the potential hurt everyone involved, but the BW and the kids are the ones who have no choice in the matter. Until d-day when all h*ll breaks loose.

 

Sorry I keep editing, I'm at work and can't seem to finish a thought.

[Impudent Oyster]

What's your point?

 

It certainly is, however I still believe I have a right to ask her to refrain from speaking directly about ME.

 

..

 

You actually don't have that right.

 

You could always start your own website and ban her IP, but short of that, it's ridiculous to come to a message board to have a discussion then ask certain people not to speak about you.

[Impudent Oyster]

But isn't that kinda weird that one would take time to respond to the OP and expect to be ignored or asked to be ignored? why post at all? unless of course, you are hoping that you will not be ignored(indeed, hoping that one would draw some kind of response from the OP)? Hehe...love the little game..

 

Sanafa, many BSs hate the guts of strong OWs. It's all there is to it... they only like OWs that are suffering, who do not challenge what they want to believe is the truth( theri version of the truth) from their Cheating spouses.

 

But you probably know that already....

 

Serious question to you and all OP here...from a BS's perspective, what is there to like about people who have no qualms about intruding on someone's marriage?

 

Sleeping with a married person is a nasty, rotten thing to do. I don't think there is anyone on the planet who could agree that it's something not to be ashamed of. Isn't that why all OP don't advertise the fact that they're screwing MP? Most wouldn't even tell their best friends, because they know it's wrong and they know what most people would tell them to stop.

[herenow]

Serious question to you and all OP here...from a BS's perspective, what is there to like about people who have no qualms about intruding on someone's marriage?

 

Sleeping with a married person is a nasty, rotten thing to do. I don't think there is anyone on the planet who could agree that it's something not to be ashamed of. Isn't that why all OP don't advertise the fact that they're screwing MP? Most wouldn't even tell their best friends, because they know it's wrong and they know what most people would tell them to stop.

 

Another question is: Why would anyone think that a BW would spend the energy to "hate" an OW? Most BW's really don't have that much emotion about the OW. If you ask some of the BW here, they will tell you that they came to LS because they don't understand the OW. They are hoping to get some sort of idea about why a woman would get involved with a MM.

[tami-chan]

Well, "like" not in a personal kind of way...but "like" in the sense that they will be treated kindly.

 

I do not know about the "no qualms part'..I know for my part it took a long time for me to decide to be with the OM/MM...2 years EA then 2 years EA/PA....to me, to say "no qualms" imply thoughtlessness....certainly, many have turned their backs to moral values that they have held dear to make the choices they have made....for me..I simply believe that sometimes what goes on inside people and relationships are too complex that societal mandated vows are not enough to deter them from seeking "joy", happiness" "love"..or even just excitement<shrug>. Of course, there are some who have found people who are able to keep those vows...and it is a wonderful thing!

[tami-chan]

Another question is: Why would anyone think that a BW would spend the energy to "hate" an OW? Most BW's really don't have that much emotion about the OW. If you ask some of the BW here, they will tell you that they came to LS because they don't understand the OW. They are hoping to get some sort of idea about why a woman would get involved with a MM.

 

 

But why even try to spend energy trying to understand the OW?

[herenow]

But why even try to spend energy trying to understand the OW?

 

When I first found out about my H's affair all I wanted to do is understand everything including the OW. I knew that my H was to blame, but I felt like I had no control of my life and I needed to at least try to get some sort of understanding about the people involved. That's why I came here in the first place.

 

What I really needed is to be OK with myself. To know that I would be able to be happy with or without my H. It didn't take too long for me realize that I was the only one who had control of my life.

[jwi71]

No.... no, not another thread....

 

I would love to hear your view on the fog. It was one of the first things I was "taught" about.

 

And I questioned it, but I guess I now see the fog as the emotional state we were in following DDay. For me, Fog is the days I literally cannot recall because of emotions, tears,etc.

 

I can remember the early first two days or so, but can't really recall any specific's.... so I see that as fog and that was my question about "fog in the affair".... I can recall all of my past year, simply not the emotional bursts that occurred just after DDay.

 

This is a good step for you methinks. My initial impression from your first posts were of a OW in the fog and, well, lashing out. Im glad to see you can at least acknowledge a fog, however you define it, exists. And this fog clouds normally clear, lucid and rational thought.

 

The same kind of thought you and your MM had...it would be "easier"...it wouldn't be so bad (a guess)...that you two wont become emotionally entangled (I believe you said you had no time for a R so engaged in an A). THIS is the fog. And it persists. It can last for weeks, months and I'm sure even longer. Only now do I think, based solely on the construction, tone and message of your posts, is your mind returning. Its not an insult but a common occurrence.

 

I alluded to it earlier...most, if not all of us, went through it and can see it your posts. Take a the time to listen with an open mind...some of us are FAR further down this path than yourself.

 

To wit...take the time to start rereading this thread from post one. See anything different? How would you evaluate YOURSELF given only what is written. Can you see the progress I do?

 

Keep posting...keep opening up. This is an anonymous internet forum and we have NO idea who you are. The MM obviously knows you as does his BS...and every person they have informed.

 

You want to learn...then give. Kinda like everything else in life...the more you put into of yourself...the more you get out of it.

 

JW

[jwi71]

When I first found out about my H's affair all I wanted to do is understand everything including the OW. I knew that my H was to blame, but I felt like I had no control of my life and I needed to at least try to get some sort of understanding about the people involved. That's why I came here in the first place.

 

What I really needed is to be OK with myself. To know that I would be able to be happy with or without my H. It didn't take too long for me realize that I was the only one who had control of my life.

 

 

We are soooo different. When I first found about my xW's A...all I wanted to do was shoot the sunuvabitch banging my W.

 

And now...I have nothing but sympathy and pity for each - they have and continue to pay dearly for it. And its really quite sad.

[NoIDidn't]

When I first found out about my H's affair all I wanted to do is understand everything including the OW. I knew that my H was to blame, but I felt like I had no control of my life and I needed to at least try to get some sort of understanding about the people involved. That's why I came here in the first place.

 

What I really needed is to be OK with myself. To know that I would be able to be happy with or without my H. It didn't take too long for me realize that I was the only one who had control of my life.

 

This describes my situation pretty much too. But by the time I came here, I was really only trying to hear the OW side of things. I was so surprised to basically see and communicate with women who had responded in similar ways to me had I been in their situations.

 

I was a few months into a really good reconciliation (with myself, and later with my H) by the time I found this place. I hadn't made a decision yet on staying or leaving. But I wanted to be fine with my kids no matter how things worked out.

 

And unless someone can prove me wrong by searching through my previous posts, I never blamed the OW for the EA. My H owned that through and through. I'd always maintained that out of the three of us, he and I were the ones at our wedding. She owned her part in the A, but my H was the one married to me.

[NoIDidn't]

I see the emotions as dealing with the punches that life throws you. If we used the "fog" as a way to describe every difficult situation, we would all be spending part of life in a "fog". IMO it's just a word that is used to excuse actions. Saying it wasn't real because MM (or anyone) was in a "fog" is complete BS (and I don't mean betrayed spouse).

 

It's like saying, I didn't know what I was doing, so don't blame me. In answer to your original question, of course the MM knows what he is doing. He just doesn't realize what the consequences are. He thinks he won't get caught. When reality hits and it doesn't go down that way, no "fog" is going to keep him from the consequences that his actions bring.

 

HN

 

I agree with what you have said above. I just think that its a common misconception by some, usually the OPs or people not affected by infidelity, that saying the WS was in the "fog" is an excuse for their actions. Its not. Its exactly what you say above, they think they aren't going to get caught. Its not about not knowing what they are doing. Its about not thinking through the consequences of their actions in a realistic way.

 

That's why the "fog" is present throughout the A, for both of the deluded APs. Both have made the fantasy of the A their reality with no real thought for actual reality. Its the reason that so many WS's are shocked that the BS doesn't do exactly what they thought, and generally told their AP, they were going to do. Its the reason that they (the WSs) don't travel the road they thought they had all lined up should they have been discovered.

 

I've never felt that the fog was an excuse for behavior. Just a messed up and unrealistic way of thinking.

[Sanafa]

This is a good step for you methinks. My initial impression from your first posts were of a OW in the fog and, well, lashing out. Im glad to see you can at least acknowledge a fog, however you define it, exists. And this fog clouds normally clear, lucid and rational thought.

 

The same kind of thought you and your MM had...it would be "easier"...it wouldn't be so bad (a guess)...that you two wont become emotionally entangled (I believe you said you had no time for a R so engaged in an A). THIS is the fog. And it persists. It can last for weeks, months and I'm sure even longer. Only now do I think, based solely on the construction, tone and message of your posts, is your mind returning. Its not an insult but a common occurrence.

 

I alluded to it earlier...most, if not all of us, went through it and can see it your posts. Take a the time to listen with an open mind...some of us are FAR further down this path than yourself.

 

To wit...take the time to start rereading this thread from post one. See anything different? How would you evaluate YOURSELF given only what is written. Can you see the progress I do?

 

Keep posting...keep opening up. This is an anonymous internet forum and we have NO idea who you are. The MM obviously knows you as does his BS...and every person they have informed.

 

You want to learn...then give. Kinda like everything else in life...the more you put into of yourself...the more you get out of it.

 

JW

 

 

Hi JW,

 

There is no question that I continue to have realizations, changes in thought... none at all.

 

It is still a constant struggle, and yes I am finding myself ( although some may not like that) because the truth is my strength comes from my business mind, almost male like in many areas and that is for many reasons. I am also incredibly emotional and a dicotomy for certain.

 

I could smack myself for thinking we were in control, that we denied just how incredibly painful it would be for all involved.

 

what I can say with certainy, I would never walk that path again. I am not sitting in judgement of any other AP, but for me, once was more than enough to learn.

 

For someone who didn't want to "hurt" anyone... .it is so difficult to come to terms with what I did and struggle with my own self wants ( missing him, missing us).

 

When I started I thought no strings was great..... had never done it before and though that he being married would block me from growing into a relationship emotionally. Well, I had never done that, and not wired that way ( now I know) so the emotions came and when we realized we were in a full on relationship..... we were already there, and the heart was speaking louder than the head.

 

I still can't say I regret my time with him, for everything we did wrong he truly does care for his family and is a fantastic person.... not perfect but certainly not evil.

 

As for his W being angry with me.... I think it may be a phase of recovery, as I expect my anger for him/ his for me is as well. I also know that only time will tell the whole story. How I feel about it changes daily as I am just now getting my feet back on the ground.

[Tony]

More than half the posts on the last 5 or so pages have been nasty, sarcastic, off topic, argumentative, etc. Time to stop this. CLOSED~