Why many men in the west are reluctant to get married

[Eve]

I cannot get my head around the OPs example and others given.

 

My main points are that I dont think that people are not willing to marry because of issues such as Child Support. I think in general, unless raised otherwise, people generally see relationships as transitory.

 

I think that the child support system needs to be re-evaluated because it does not take into consideration the quality of life of the non resident parent. At its base, this is evidenced in that no concern is given towards what activities the (often male) parent wants to maintain/start with the child/children!

 

I also disagree with the notion that the earnings of the resident parent and partner/s are not taken into consideration within the assessment. Total rip off. Worst still, noone cares about the health implications (especially mental health) of such Orders. So these people are totally alone.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[Woggle]

And are you so wrapped up in yourself that you seriously think you're the only truly happily married man on the planet?

 

I am one of a few who is happily married and my wife is as happy as I am.

[Woggle]

It's black and white thinking, but nonetheless kind of sweet that you see your wife as one of the few worthwhile women left on earth. I just keep my fingers crossed for you that it does keep working out - because I rather dread to think what we'd see on this board from you if it ever went belly up.

 

If I turn out to be wrong about her and she does betray me I would probably became a heartless player.

[carhill]

Given his history, I can only imagine the leap of something it took for him to marry his current wife. Talk about overcoming reluctance. No wonder he would think he's the rare exception. Good on him for trying. I don't know if I could have under those circumstances.

[Taramere]

If I turn out to be wrong about her and she does betray me I would probably became a heartless player.

 

I think people either have some kind of psychological condition that renders them genuinely devoid of empathy and emotion, or they don't Woggle. I'm not sure that there's any guru in the world who can transform a man into an automaton.

 

If she did betray you, I hope you'd focus on addressing the emotions full on and learning to manage them like an adult - rather than just spending the rest of your life in denial that you had emotions. In any case, I'm hopeful that it will keep working out for you. Annoying as some of your comments on the board can be, I appreciate that (as Carhill says) you've had a lot to overcome in your past.

[Woggle]

I must say that a close friend of mine I have known since Jr high seems to have won the love lottery like I have. He married a great woman that treats him well plus I have a coworker who has a happy relationship with her husband. On the other hand I am the only married man in my office that actually looks forward to going home because I know she won't chew me out. I know I am not walking into a battlefield when I get home. I am also the only who doesn't have to lie if I want to go have fun with the guys.

[Woggle]

I think people either have some kind of psychological condition that renders them genuinely devoid of empathy and emotion, or they don't Woggle. I'm not sure that there's any guru in the world who can transform a man into an automaton.

 

If she did betray you, I hope you'd focus on addressing the emotions full on and learning to manage them like an adult - rather than just spending the rest of your life in denial that you had emotions. In any case, I'm hopeful that it will keep working out for you. Annoying as some of your comments on the board can be, I appreciate that (as Carhill says) you've had a lot to overcome in your past.

 

When I think about I doubt that I could ever be a player that uses women. I actually tried it between marriages and it didn't suit me. I don't know what I would do if she betrayed me but I doubt I would ever trust a woman again.

[Woggle]

In my last marriage, I used to be at work and, at around 4:30, I'd realize my teeth hurt, then I would realize it was because my jaws had been clenched for the past 15 minutes. Then, sadly enough, I realized it was because I knew I had to go home at 5:00.

 

It can go both ways you know, Woggle.

 

It does go both ways but it seems like more often than not the men I know are completely emsculating themselves to keep from being put in the doghouse. It's something that I see over and over again.

[Taramere]

In my last marriage, I used to be at work and, at around 4:30, I'd realize my teeth hurt, then I would realize it was because my jaws had been clenched for the past 15 minutes. Then, sadly enough, I realized it was because I knew I had to go home at 5:00.

 

It can go both ways you know, Woggle.

 

That sounds like a horrible situation for anyone to be in. Home should be a sanctuary that you look forward to after work, rather than being the main source of stress.

 

My brother and my sister-in-law have been together for 12 years. They still hug and snog eachother the moment he walks through the door, but I think they both work hard at keeping that element in the relationship. When it gets to the stage, in a relationship, where one or both people, as a matter of routine, (as opposed to once in a while, when there's some kind of drama or crisis going on) dread going home...where do they go from there? Is it ever possible to recover a situation that has that level of negativity in it, do you think?

 

Sometimes I find myself reading something exceptionally misogynistic (which, me being female, evokes more of a reaction in me than I get when I read something misandrist), and wondering whether, once a person has revealed that degree of negativity and hostility in their beliefs, there can ever any motivation to keep trying to like or love them. It reminds me of children I used to work with. Most of them, however troubled, had their lovable side....but every once in a while you'd encounter one who was seemed to be 100% negative and horrible, as though they'd been somehow damaged beyond repair. Those were the ones you knew you'd end up reading about one day in the paper.

 

Is that how it feels when a marriage goes so wrong that home becomes a place you dread? That the other person has just descended into being something that's impossible to like or feel any affection towards?

[Woggle]

Though I feel no affection at all for ex in a romantic way for some strange reason I actually feel sorry for her at times. God knows why I do because she brought everything on herself. I utterly dreaded coming home those last few months as well.

[sally4sara]

I cannot get my head around the OPs example and others given.

 

My main points are that I dont think that people are not willing to marry because of issues such as Child Support. I think in general, unless raised otherwise, people generally see relationships as transitory.

 

I think that the child support system needs to be re-evaluated because it does not take into consideration the quality of life of the non resident parent. At its base, this is evidenced in that no concern is given towards what activities the (often male) parent wants to maintain/start with the child/children!

 

I also disagree with the notion that the earnings of the resident parent and partner/s are not taken into consideration within the assessment. Total rip off. Worst still, noone cares about the health implications (especially mental health) of such Orders. So these people are totally alone.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

 

Huh?!? If this is true, why did I have to show a list of my expenses and income too for child support to be calculated? It must vary from state to state. They totally factored in my income prior to deciding how much child support my ex would pay.

[Trialbyfire]

I must say that a close friend of mine I have known since Jr high seems to have won the love lottery like I have. He married a great woman that treats him well plus I have a coworker who has a happy relationship with her husband. On the other hand I am the only married man in my office that actually looks forward to going home because I know she won't chew me out. I know I am not walking into a battlefield when I get home. I am also the only who doesn't have to lie if I want to go have fun with the guys.

One sided thinking again. People create and stay in their environment. Did it ever occur to you that it takes two to create unhealthy dynamics? What kind of man needs to lie or consistently worry about going home and getting chewed out? If he's not being treated right, it's up to him to hold to his boundaries. For that matter, if she feels she has to keep chewing him out, why is she with someone who ignores her needs so consistently? Reasonable behaviour and expectations. No one should act like they're single, while married. No one should be a harridan.

[Eve]

Huh?!? If this is true, why did I have to show a list of my expenses and income too for child support to be calculated? It must vary from state to state. They totally factored in my income prior to deciding how much child support my ex would pay.

 

I live in the UK Sally. I dont mean to be anal but the following link details what I was speaking off in more detail. The point in question is near the bottom of the page.

 

http://www.childsupportsolutions.co.uk/pwc-calculation.htm

 

I think it is terrible that a person can have their gross income chopped up to give to a partner who may even earn more than what they do!

 

I am all for protecting children but dont see why a non resident parent should pay unconditionally for the time a child spends with the resident parent? If a person can have nearly equal access to the child/children then the proposed system can work .. but not many resident parents want to play ball like that because they want the money.

 

Still the UK Laws are not as harsh as those in the USA! I dont understand the whole allimony thing at all! WTF, get a job! That sort of imposition on a person could cause murder!

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[FleshNBones]

If you're referring to marriage contracts (are you? I can't be sure), that's a legal and financial contract and has precious little to do with love. But the wedding industry uses the whole notion of romance and love as a cash cow, and it's working. The wedding industry is a HUGE money-maker.

 

But you're right... that's a topic for another thread entirely.

 

[/hijack]

There is a lot more money in divorce namely divorce lawyers. The lawyers, judges, etc. all get a cut.

[frankie881388]

There is a lot more money in divorce namely divorce lawyers. The lawyers, judges, etc. all get a cut.

 

People the point the OP was trying to make was that men DO get screwed in a divorce. In divorce between the sexes, the stage is already set in the court of law. Men are mostly seen to be the bad guy. Oh we make more, or we cheat more, or we don't attend more to our wives need, etc, etc. Those feminists groups are out there working their assess off making men look bad. Of course they don't want men and women to get along either.

[sb129]

All this talk about child support- if you were self employed and had kids, and loved them and still had an active part in their lives, then wouldn't it stand to reason that in the event of a split, you would still provide for them anyway?

 

Some people don't actually have to be told by the government to help out raising their kids, they just do it.

[BoredPerson]

It is because women have too many rights. If women were not allowed to deny married men sex there would be fewer problems. Men would just tell women to shut up when they are being bitchy.

 

If women did not automatically get paid heaps of money for divorces it would also be a better situation for everyone involved as there would be no encouragement to be a bitch and start fights to cause divorce.

 

If women were denied access to their children the way men are in divorces there would be fewer women wanting divorces.

 

This would be better for men and better for the family unit but not better women who would actually have to act like women for a change and do their bit in the relationship. This might mean they have to do what they are told now and then but wouldn't it be better for society overall ?

 

If fewer women worked and more stayed at home it would be better for the job market too, but you cannot have them staying at home under the current climate as they would get bored and leave.

 

I think the complete absence of rights and the ability of women to completely dominate men in a marriage are the reason men are reluctant to get married. I know I do not want to get married before age 35.

[Taramere]

It is because women have too many rights.

 

If you don't like women, don't spend all your time hanging around pink websites that you know are frequented by a lot of women. If the other sex repels you to that extent, why the f*ck do you need to hang around all these cyber-women like a little lost puppy growling and yapping impotently? If you can't get a girlfriend, go to prostitutes for sex - and deal with the fact that contractually the prostitutes have a right to be paid for services rendered. And to charge double if the recipient of those services is as sad, desperate and most probably physically off-putting a character as you.

 

Hang on though. I'm guessing you're one of these who has a "love/hate" relationship with women. As in you love and need us. We hate you for your incessant whining and your endless need for attention from the very gender you profess to despise so much. At those rare times we're moved to anything other than complete indifference by you. And that's why you have to spend so much time either on here, trying to get any kind of female response you can.... or snivelling noisily on some website for half-men who had the sh*t kicked out of them by other guys all through school, and believe that misogynistic howling at the moon is a valid way of learning to bond with other men and get back the balls they never had to begin with.

 

Is that enough feminine bitchiness and OTT misandry to keep you yanking on your two inches for the next two hours? Or do you need some more negative attention? Presuming you've never been capable of garnering positive attention from women, and that's why you're so thirsty for the next best thing. You might be in luck. I'm sure I won't be the only woman on this board nursing a Sunday morning headache and looking for an easy target to vent it on.

[grogster]

If you don't like women, don't spend all your time hanging around pink websites that you know are frequented by a lot of women. If the other sex repels you to that extent, why the f*ck do you need to hang around all these cyber-women like a little lost puppy growling impotently? If you can't get a girlfriend, go to prostitutes for sex - and deal with the fact that contractually the prostitutes have a right to be paid for services rendered. And to charge double if the recipient of those services is as sad, desperate and most probably physically off-putting a character as you.

 

Hang on though. I'm guessing you're one of these who has a "love/hate" relationship with women. As in you love and need us. We hate you, at those rare times we're moved to anything other than complete indifference by you. And that's why you have to spend so much time either on here, or on some website for half-men who had the sh*t kicked out of them by other guys all through school, and believe that misogynistic howling at the moon is a valid way of learning to bond with other men and get back the balls they never had to begin with.

 

Is that enough feminine bitchiness and OTT misandry to keep you yanking at your couple of inches for the next 24 hours, or do you need a bit more? I'm sure I won't be the only woman on this board nursing a Sunday morning headache and looking for an easy target to vent it on.

 

Crushed, pulverized and shredded. Yet another Shack uber-male gets a Tara-whipp'n.

 

Sunday morning headache cure: Two aspirin, OJ and one bitch-slapp'n post.

 

That's telling him, girl!

[Taramere]

Crushed, pulverized and shredded. Yet another Shack uber-male gets a Tara-whipp'n.

 

Sunday morning headache cure: Two aspirin, OJ and one bitch-slapp'n post.

 

That's telling him, girl!

 

It hasn't done my headache any good, though.

 

It's true though. You read posts from a guy like that, and it just conjures up visions of some huddled up figure regularly hurrying down the steps to a basement, where the front door is opened up by a woman clad head to toe in PVC and wielding a cat of 27 tails (spiked).

 

"Today, Bored Person, we're going to make you lick out the toilet bowls. One of the girls had a bout of dysentery last night, so it might take a while. That will be £550 cash up front, please."

 

Then he comes on here and tries to get some post-bowl-licking therapy for free. Stump up, Bored Person. I have a Paypal account - you can PM me for the details.

[grogster]

It hasn't done my headache any good, though.

 

It's true though. You read posts from a guy like that, and it just conjures up visions of some huddled up figure regularly hurrying down the steps to a basement, where the front door is opened up by a woman clad head to toe in PVC and wielding a cat of 27 tails (spiked).

 

"Today, Bored Person, we're going to make you lick out the toilet bowls. One of the girls had a bout of dysentery last night, so it might take a while. That will be £550 cash up front, please."

 

Not referring specifically to BP, but I've always sensed, on the part of many women-baiters here, a sexual (or cyber) submissiveness. It's as if they need women to dominate them, resent their inherent subness, then lash out at women politically. Reaction formation?

 

They appear to enjoy the beat downs that Shack women administer regularly to them.

 

Boys will be boys; subs will be subs.

[Taramere]

Not referring specifically to BP, but I've always sensed, on the part of many women-baiters here, a sexual (or cyber) submissiveness. It's as if they need women to dominate them, resent their inherent subness, then lash out at women politically. Reaction formation?

 

I think so too! An ex of mine had this friend who was pretty misogynistic. No, actually he was more of a misanthropist, who hated about 98% of the population. But I think he found it more enjoyable to rant about women. The falseness, the stupidity, the superficiality etc etc.

 

I actually quite liked him - but after an afternoon of coffee and cake with a woman who was sleeping with him, I learned that he was an extreme masochist. Unfortunately, she was an extremely gentle vegetarian. Her lip was wobbling as she said "He wanted me to hit him hard with a stick, but I just can't bring myself to physically hurt another person."

 

And actually, he treated her like total crap. You could have observed that relationship from a casual distance and taken the view that it was just another "jerk treating a sucker dreadfully" situation. But in actual fact, the meanness emanating from him was largely due to the fact that there were no women available and willing to give him the hearty whipping that he craved.

 

I'm going off to do some research on this.

[sally4sara]

What are the advantages to getting married? Well fewer than in the past. Women give up sex much easier, so you do not need marriage for that. Many women today also frown upon traditional roles, so you must continue to work AND cook, clean, etc. Except now you can only sleep with one woman.

 

I have had probably hundreds of guys work for me, and I found one universal truth. The single ones could not wait to get off work and go home. The married ones wanted to stay at work as late as possible, or have beers after work, etc. Because as soon as they get home they are nagged about what to do, what to fix, where they have to go, etc.

 

I know some men that are completely trapped. Think of this scenario..

 

You get married early, start a family.. You work work work to pay bills, pay off your home, raise children etc. Finally you are mid 40's , home is paid off, and you have savings.

 

You are now a prisoner to your wife's desires. Why? Well at anytime she can decide she wants a divorce, and everything you worked for is taken away, and you must start again from basically ZERO. Pay child support, rent an apartment etc. You are now a loser approaching 50.

 

Yes, this is the fate of traditional men. Expect a woman to play traditional roles and the courts standards (created by men!) will favor her. And they should; she knows the children better than the father so of course the children will stay with her for the most part.

 

Marriage today works for women and men who don't insist on taking little interest in the kids, managing a home, or feels emasculated by a wife who works. If a man is the one doing the majority of child care, more and more often, the courts give him the kids and the wife pays support.

 

It is up to men to change their view of marriage and their role within it.

Women already have. Women know they are capable of both roles. I'll bet men are too, they just don't find pride in doing anything but bringing home the bacon. Why should the courts consider them equal in their decision regarding the children or child support while they act like doing the "woman's job" removes their balls? If you think of it as a mother's role, why on Earth would you complain when the woman gets the kids?

 

Quit yer bitchin and start playing catch up.

[BoredPerson]

If you don't like women, don't spend all your time hanging around pink websites that you know are frequented by a lot of women. If the other sex repels you to that extent, why the f*ck do you need to hang around all these cyber-women like a little lost puppy growling and yapping impotently? If you can't get a girlfriend, go to prostitutes for sex - and deal with the fact that contractually the prostitutes have a right to be paid for services rendered. And to charge double if the recipient of those services is as sad, desperate and most probably physically off-putting a character as you.

 

Hang on though. I'm guessing you're one of these who has a "love/hate" relationship with women. As in you love and need us. We hate you for your incessant whining and your endless need for attention from the very gender you profess to despise so much. At those rare times we're moved to anything other than complete indifference by you. And that's why you have to spend so much time either on here, trying to get any kind of female response you can.... or snivelling noisily on some website for half-men who had the sh*t kicked out of them by other guys all through school, and believe that misogynistic howling at the moon is a valid way of learning to bond with other men and get back the balls they never had to begin with.

 

Is that enough feminine bitchiness and OTT misandry to keep you yanking on your two inches for the next two hours? Or do you need some more negative attention? Presuming you've never been capable of garnering positive attention from women, and that's why you're so thirsty for the next best thing. You might be in luck. I'm sure I won't be the only woman on this board nursing a Sunday morning headache and looking for an easy target to vent it on.

 

I do not hate women. I pay them for sex because it makes sense to do so as no other women will sleep with me.

 

I am a very small, sad, pathetic little person and that does not bother me in the least. What I crave is some human affection. For someone to find me attractive and to want to have sex with me and to want to be in a relationship with me because of 'feelings'.

 

I do not care about you or your little crusades.

 

What did I do ? Make a few instances of social commentary. I do not want to fight with you but you seem intent on hating me for simply being what I am. Emotionally I have been to places that you have no understanding or comprehension. Your feeble words will not affect me so save your time if you want to try and insult me in future.

[Taramere]

I do not hate women. I pay them for sex because it makes sense to do so as no other women will sleep with me.

 

I am a very small, sad, pathetic little person and that does not bother me in the least. What I crave is some human affection. For someone to find me attractive and to want to have sex with me and to want to be in a relationship with me because of 'feelings'.

 

I do not care about you or your little crusades.

 

What did I do ? Make a few instances of social commentary. I do not want to fight with you but you seem intent on hating me for simply being what I am. Emotionally I have been to places that you have no understanding or comprehension. Your feeble words will not affect me so save your time if you want to try and insult me in future.

 

Okay. Well....if ever you should change your mind, I've fashioned a special stick of birchwood just for you.