Thaddeus Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 True story: Sam meets Julie. They fall in love, get married, have 2 kids. No pre-nup. Julie has an affair. Sam finds out. Julie files for divorce and takes 70% of the marital assets PLUS about 80% of the assets Sam had before he was married. Sam goes to court to have the settlement re-evaluated since it was CLEARLY unfair. Judge - female - says (and I quote), "The circumstances of the divorce, such as who was the adulterer, are irrelevant if the woman was the adulterer. Men do not have rights, only responsibilities. The original order stands." Julie moves away across the country and takes the children. Sam has no recourse. End result: Sam has his financial status destroyed, loses all access to his children, Julie gets the kids and, last I heard, was burning through his money like a house on fire. For the record, I was the best man at Sam & Julie's wedding and know them extremely well. And women wonder why men are hesitant to get married. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 But your situation is rather different, since you aren't going to have any kids, and are unlikely to get involved with a guy earning 1/3 or less then your own income (or a guy with no income at all). The probability of you getting financially devastated by future divorce is therefore pretty remote.I've always wanted children and will be having them, so I don't know where you got that from. It's true I don't get involved with financially insecure men but that's for a number of reasons. My SO and I will be signing prenups, previous to marriage so no, neither one of us will be financially devastated if it doesn't work out. With all this in mind, I don't see why men can't do the same. YOU select who you choose to marry. Instead of hating on the institution, why not accept responsibility for the choices you make in life. It's like blaming knives for all the stabbing crimes, where it's about the people who use the knives to commit violent crimes. The same rule applies to misogynists, whereby they blame all women for their woes. Instead, focus true blame where it belongs, with the individuals who have hurt or harmed you, in the past. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I've always wanted children and will be having them, so I don't know where you got that from. It's true I don't get involved with financially insecure men but that's for a number of reasons. My SO and I will be signing prenups, previous to marriage so no, neither one of us will be financially devastated if it doesn't work out. With all this in mind, I don't see why men can't do the same. YOU select who you choose to marry. Instead of hating on the institution, why not accept responsibility for the choices you make in life. It's like blaming knives for all the stabbing crimes, where it's about the people who use the knives to commit violent crimes. The same rule applies to misogynists, whereby they blame all women for their woes. Instead, focus true blame where it belongs, with the individuals who have hurt or harmed you, in the past. Yeah guys, if I were you I would get vasectomies and never marry. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Yeah guys, if I were you I would get vasectomies and never marry.Can you explain your comment? I'd like to understand what your debate point might be, that would be beneficial to this thread, beyond promoting more bitterness and a lack of personal responsibility for choices. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I'm hazarding a guess that stillafool's response was facetious. It's facetious but in what way? I'd like to clearly understand from which perspective. Link to post Share on other sites
chocolate_nap Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Men are not reluctant to get married. People simply don't feel the need any longer to get married to have sex, or because a babys on the way. Also, now we have better birth control. Both men & women feel they have other options for their lives so delay marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I'm hoping it's because the premise behind this thread is silly in and of itself. Said the single woman who lives with her long term boyfriend. Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Sitting here thinking about it for a bit, I think that if God forbid anything should happen to my marriage, I'd be very reluctant to remarry. I know that could well change if I actually found myself in that situation, but the fact is that marriage takes work, sometimes alot of work. I'm not sure I'd want to put that much effort into another marriage. Besides, it's been since Reagan's first term that I've lived alone. Doing so might be kind of nice, at least for a while. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Sitting here thinking about it for a bit, I think that if God forbid anything should happen to my marriage, I'd be very reluctant to remarry. I know that could well change if I actually found myself in that situation, but the fact is that marriage takes work, sometimes alot of work. I'm not sure I'd want to put that much effort into another marriage. Besides, it's been since Reagan's first term that I've lived alone. Doing so might be kind of nice, at least for a while.Post separation: Not again although I did continue believing in the institution for others. Post divorce: Not likely although I did continue believing in the institution for others. Enjoyed being single and dating around. Currently: Am engaged and looking forward to going down the aisle again. Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I'm thinking about retiring to a foreign land where the laws are less draconian and getting married there. My current GF is a native of such a place and is amicable to the idea of returning in such a scenario. Hmmm, retire before 45 and spend the next 20 years with my wife and kids, if I'm blessed in that way. Could be a lot worse. Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 This thread cracks me up even more now. Two days ago I watched an interview of the man who made other men irrelevant. Here is what I mean: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-511391/Death-father-British-scientists-discover-turn-womens-bone-marrow-sperm.html This is scary stuff. Nature shows an all female population would cause population numers to sky rocket and the species that have had this happen starve for lack of enough food to go around. Will women still choose to marry and procreate the normal way? Link to post Share on other sites
Chubbi Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I agree Trial by Fire. Some of you guys sound so jaded lol. You sound like old scrooges. I don't think I'd be reluctant to get married because of the divorce cut my money will take. I have no idea what I'll be making in the future so I don't know. Who looks that far ahead in the future anyway? When you're getting married you're thinking about honeymoon sex not what my monthly paycheck will look after divorce. If you can do all that, you should sign up for fortune-telling lol The reason why I'll be reluctant to marry is because I want to find the right girl, I want to make sure the girl is the right one. Some people think I'm scared of commitment but that's not true. I'm scared of commiting to the wrong person. And the thing about the east: Many cultures around the world aren't allowed to do that- find/choose a person they want to marry. They have parental and socioeconomic factors to look after. Those types of societies suck for gay couples (since those societies generally look down on homosexuality); ugly, simple-minded people thrive though lol. At least Western people get to choose, and we can be as superficial, mean, and spiteful as we want when we choose our dating partners. A lot of people have no choices at all- we're lucky. Our (western) women can say, "hell naw, you're a creep." A lot of Eastern young girls will never even be asked if they want to join in marriage/sex, you know? Many people in the East aren't allowed to divorce either, unless their H decides he wants to abandon his family. Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Will women still choose to marry and procreate the normal way? Until they can turn some bone marrow into a workhorse, yes they will. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 True story: Sam meets Julie. They fall in love, get married, have 2 kids. No pre-nup. Julie has an affair. Sam finds out. Julie files for divorce and takes 70% of the marital assets PLUS about 80% of the assets Sam had before he was married. Sam goes to court to have the settlement re-evaluated since it was CLEARLY unfair. Judge - female - says (and I quote), "The circumstances of the divorce, such as who was the adulterer, are irrelevant if the woman was the adulterer. Men do not have rights, only responsibilities. The original order stands." Julie moves away across the country and takes the children. Sam has no recourse. End result: Sam has his financial status destroyed, loses all access to his children, Julie gets the kids and, last I heard, was burning through his money like a house on fire. For the record, I was the best man at Sam & Julie's wedding and know them extremely well. And women wonder why men are hesitant to get married. Don't act like this isn't how marriage usually turns out. It is increasingly becoming a losing gamble for men. Link to post Share on other sites
subdued Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Did you notice that you said they have 2 kids. When the judge said that men do not have rights, only responsibilities, she is probably talking about the man's responsibilities for making sure his kids are taking care of--which includes food, housing, clothes, medical expenses... Whether or not the woman had an affair is irrelevant to the kids. They still need to be taken care of. Your excuse for not getting married falls short. A man can get a woman pregnant whether or not he is married to her. And the courts will still want the man to take responsibility for the child's welfare whether or not he is married to her. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Sometimes male judges are even worse. They have this oldschool mentality that a man is a provider and a real man takes care of his woman or some crap like that. Men have to get a men's rights lawyer like I did who knows how to work the system. Women would not be able to burn us the way they do without men who enable them. Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Your excuse for not getting married falls short. A man can get a woman pregnant whether or not he is married to her. Not on purpose most of the time, whereas a lot of married couples actually try for kids. Why not, they're married right? Link to post Share on other sites
subdued Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Except for the fact that this does not explain why a man in his later years who does not plan to have any more children is so scared of getting married. No, not on purpose. But if women are so heartless like some people on this forum are making them out to be, then all they need to do is get pregnant without the man's consent. After all, how many men are still using condoms when they are in a long-term relationship and not relying on the women to use birth control? And it happened to my current boyfriend. He was dating a woman whose biological clock was ticking and decided to stop using birth control without his knowledge. She kept the baby, and he is paying child support. Link to post Share on other sites
subdued Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 And the thing about the east: Many cultures around the world aren't allowed to do that- find/choose a person they want to marry. They have parental and socioeconomic factors to look after. Those types of societies suck for gay couples (since those societies generally look down on homosexuality); ugly, simple-minded people thrive though lol. At least Western people get to choose, and we can be as superficial, mean, and spiteful as we want when we choose our dating partners. A lot of people have no choices at all- we're lucky. Our (western) women can say, "hell naw, you're a creep." A lot of Eastern young girls will never even be asked if they want to join in marriage/sex, you know? Many people in the East aren't allowed to divorce either, unless their H decides he wants to abandon his family. I hope you aren't talking about China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. Because I've lived there before. Extended families live close; so it is important for everyone to get along. That's why parents are also involved in the decision making process. However, most parents are not going to force their kids to marry someone they don't want to marry. And children have the last say. They can marry who they want even if it goes against their parents' wishes. The thing is it's usually important to the kids that their parents approve. My cousin's parents did not approve of her finance. They finally gave their blessing when my cousin turned 30, and the two got married. As for gays. I met quite a few gays when I was living in Taiwan. Everyone knows they are gay. It's no big deal. China has a lot of gays too. As for divorce. It is becoming more popular in Asia. So don't think that just because you marry someone from the East, you won't get divorced. In fact, international marriages are difficult. I know. I was in one. Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Except for the fact that this does not explain why a man in his later years who does not plan to have any more children is so scared of getting married. Why would a man who doesn't want kids GET married? Link to post Share on other sites
The Collector Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 When you're getting married you're thinking about honeymoon sex not what my monthly paycheck will look after divorce. Yes it's a cunning trap, but I don't think the other girls like it when you give the game away... Link to post Share on other sites
sb129 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I don't know ANYONE IRL who is "scared to get married" for the reasons stated in this thread. As I said before, where I live, if you co-habit for 2 years or more, you are nearly as good as married in the eyes of the law. So here, you can get screwed even if you AREN'T married. What do you guys think are that? Marriage rates are still reasonably high here.... Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Yes, we have common-law here too like sb129, although the cessation of the common-law relationship has lesser financial impacts, than divorce. One thing I should clarify is that men/women who don't believe in or are bitter and cynical about marriage, shouldn't get married. Leave it for those of us who believe in not only the legal institution of it but the romance aspect of lifelong love, respect, honour and commitment. Link to post Share on other sites
burning 4 revenge Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Most men who marry have no idea what they are getting into. They think they will building a life with the woman they love and they be a happy family. What they don't know is that in time their angel will grow to despise and resent them and if she doesn't leave him she will certainly not love him anymore. If more men knew that eventually they will be sharing a bed with a woman that hates their guts they would not marry. Yes i think there is truth to this Ive seen the woman grow to despise their husband many many times and often its simply out of boredom and his getting older Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Yes, we have common-law here too like sb129, although the cessation of the common-law relationship has lesser financial impacts, than divorce. One thing I should clarify is that men/women who don't believe in or are bitter and cynical about marriage, shouldn't get married. Leave it for those of us who believe in not only the legal institution of it but the romance aspect of lifelong love, respect, honour and commitment. What if we believe in the social contract but not the legal one? Can we get married too? Link to post Share on other sites
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