Island Girl Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Even though I disagree with her parenting style, she'd be like the dream MIL! Sure. Until there are problems and the spouse needs a partner to work through it or a partner to lean on. He'll be fine leaning on any woman (actually he'll be on her back while she carries him around) but he will duck and run for cover when things get tough you can bet on it. And then the MIL who says "you need to carry all of it because he doesn't like to" and "you need to appreciate his specialness", etc. Not such a dream at all. I speak from personally having watched these situations come up for my best friend. Her hubby's mom is just like Ariadne. Now that he has been with her for 11 years though he doesn't have such a favorable view of how he grew up or his mother's parenting skills. Having life happen and children of his own opened his eyes to how unprepared for life (and everything in it) he really was and how little parenting she really did.
Woggle Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Then I hold you completely responsible for all the male rapists, pedophiles, abusers and psychopathic killers in the world. Own it! I don't blame all women for the actions of misandrists but if women follow a movement that promotes misandry they are guilty in my book. If I belong to a movement that promoted rape you would every right to hate me but just being born a man or a woman is not reason to hate a person. Feminism does not represent all women.
dobler33 Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Unlike your college educated kids, you don't have much of an education do you? Well I can respond and tell you that once again I think you're wrong but I don't think you'll really get it. Plus I'm suspecting that you're a troll. wow, what don't you think she gets? this is the original poster who is struggling with a man who has no rules, does not feel he needs to take any responsibility on himself, and appears to view his wife as an organic vacuum cleaner to pick up all his sh*t. sounds to me like she gets a hell of a lot more than someone who doesn't have to put up with this kind of patriarchal excrement.
dobler33 Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 I don't blame all women for the actions of misandrists but if women follow a movement that promotes misandry they are guilty in my book. If I belong to a movement that promoted rape you would every right to hate me but just being born a man or a woman is not reason to hate a person. Feminism does not represent all women. no, feminism does not represent all women. or all men. unfortunately there are many woman and men who willfully cling to old unchallenged ideals of gendered imperatives, enslaving themselves to a hegemony of repression that keeps them from seeing themselves or anyone else as anything other than ciphers and threats to the status quo. it's a bummer, but there you have it.
Island Girl Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 a man who has no rules, does not feel he needs to take any responsibility on himself, and appears to view his wife as an organic vacuum cleaner to pick up all his sh*t. I just had a flash of Ariadne's son in a few decades.
dobler33 Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 I just had a flash of Ariadne's son in a few decades. ha! anybody wanna double date?
Island Girl Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 ha! anybody wanna double date? Not me! Not only am I unavailable but I'd be worried I'd kill the guy by the end of the date! JK Not really...
marlena Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 I don´t know if Ariadne is or isn´t a good mother. All I know is that her son thinks that she is the best mom in the world. They adore one another and have a wonderful rapport, which is more than I can say for many more conventional parent/children relationships. If it works for them, who are we to judge her parenting style? As for the article, it is way over the top and violates many women´s rights but truth be told it does make sense that whoever is out of a job, man or woman, should undertake greater responsibilty in managing the home.
sally4sara Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 I don't blame all women for the actions of misandrists but if women follow a movement that promotes misandry they are guilty in my book. If I belong to a movement that promoted rape you would every right to hate me but just being born a man or a woman is not reason to hate a person. Feminism does not represent all women. I am so effing tired of it woggle. Feminism does represent women. It also represents men and children. How many years of you making the same flagrant statements just to THEN, back peddle into admitting that women who are interested in equality are not your target? Well that is what feminism is! I'd appreciate it if you would just howl about misandrists and shut up about feminists because I know you know the effing difference. And knowing you know the difference makes it twice as ignorant for you to still prattle on about feminists! Still you beat your chest and make statements about how you will teach your son this hateful drivel because he MIGHT chose the wrong woman for a partner... I don't worry about you having a son or any children. You're too scared to get that invested in your marriage. You said "I do" with your eyes on an escape route.
NoIDidn't Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 there seems to be a cultural assumption that this is the case, as was demonstrated by the comment that bent pointed out. i'm questioning that assumption. it is a stereotype of african american families: absent father or fathers, kids by different fathers, single mother. this is how the media seems to portray black families, and the stereotype is so widespread at this point that it often goes without comment. bent's challenge to the comment it's sad and horrifying now that it's "catching up" in other communities highlighted a pretty good example of those assumptions. i'm interested in your take on it, though. I caught that in Tami's post as well. Its a very nasty assumption. One that she makes often, to be honest. Its unfortunate though, that too many black families DO fit the stereotypes, or they wouldn't exist. But its not horrifying that the other ethnicities are catching up, I think they were well on their way to that without the constant publicity of the negatives in the Black Community. Okay, back to the OP.
NoIDidn't Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Sure. Until there are problems and the spouse needs a partner to work through it or a partner to lean on. He'll be fine leaning on any woman (actually he'll be on her back while she carries him around) but he will duck and run for cover when things get tough you can bet on it. And then the MIL who says "you need to carry all of it because he doesn't like to" and "you need to appreciate his specialness", etc. Not such a dream at all. I speak from personally having watched these situations come up for my best friend. Her hubby's mom is just like Ariadne. Now that he has been with her for 11 years though he doesn't have such a favorable view of how he grew up or his mother's parenting skills. Having life happen and children of his own opened his eyes to how unprepared for life (and everything in it) he really was and how little parenting she really did. Yep, I've seen enough of this myself. But most of the time, the sons in these situations just change wives instead of actually supporting the marriage that they have. Raising a boy in this manner is a detriment to marriage. He isn't prepared for any kind of conflict.
Trialbyfire Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 I don't blame all women for the actions of misandrists but if women follow a movement that promotes misandry they are guilty in my book. If I belong to a movement that promoted rape you would every right to hate me but just being born a man or a woman is not reason to hate a person. Feminism does not represent all women.Feminism doesn't promote misandry. It promotes equality. If you see equality as misandry, then of course, it's going to threaten you. Straight up, your mother was a nutbar. You know it and so does every single member of LS. That you paint the entire movement with the same broad brushstrokes, when all you've been exposed to are the nutbar elements, makes me wonder how sane you are. It's exactly the same litany of "all men will cheat". I guess that makes you a cheater, right?
HsMomma Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 He isn't prepared for any kind of conflict. Nor anything else in the "real" world!
Woggle Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 I am so effing tired of it woggle. Feminism does represent women. It also represents men and children. How many years of you making the same flagrant statements just to THEN, back peddle into admitting that women who are interested in equality are not your target? Well that is what feminism is! I'd appreciate it if you would just howl about misandrists and shut up about feminists because I know you know the effing difference. And knowing you know the difference makes it twice as ignorant for you to still prattle on about feminists! Still you beat your chest and make statements about how you will teach your son this hateful drivel because he MIGHT chose the wrong woman for a partner... I don't worry about you having a son or any children. You're too scared to get that invested in your marriage. You said "I do" with your eyes on an escape route. If feminists don't want to be lumped in with misandrists they should do more to seperate themselves but they don't. Go to the NOW website and they are pretty much opposed to every effort from fathers rights groups to make family court more fair for men. The mainstream feminists fight men every inch of the way and then tell us with a straight face that they just want equality. I don't buy it. Yes I have an escape plan for my marriage and any man these days does. With the walkaway wife trend and the way women these days treat marriage men need to be prepared just in case his wife is the one who turns. I am commited to her but just in case she does walk I am prepared. I am also leery of having children because I don't want them growing up in a broken home plus if she does walk out I want to be able to cut her out of my life completely. I can't do that if I have kids with her.
HsMomma Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Yes I have an escape plan for my marriage and any man these days does. With the walkaway wife trend and the way women these days treat marriage men need to be prepared just in case his wife is the one who turns. I am commited to her but just in case she does walk I am prepared. I am also leery of having children because I don't want them growing up in a broken home plus if she does walk out I want to be able to cut her out of my life completely. I can't do that if I have kids with her. What a sad, pathetic way to view your marriage, Woggle. Why even get married in the first place if you're already planning your 'escape'? Love the reference to walkaway wives, though - as if husbands are never the ones to walk away. I think it's probably one of the wisest decisions in the world for you to be leery of having children - I'd hate to think what environment they'd grow up in. You seem awfully scarred in your view of women - don't know why & it really doesn't matter. It would just be nice if you could admit that there ARE women out there who want equality in a relationship, who are willing to work for it, and who wouldn't dream of being "walkaways."
Touche Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Wed. is our 14th anniversary. I wonder when I'm supposed to walk away? Anywho, Wog's wife is too old for kids so no worries there. Phew!
Woggle Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 What a sad, pathetic way to view your marriage, Woggle. Why even get married in the first place if you're already planning your 'escape'? Love the reference to walkaway wives, though - as if husbands are never the ones to walk away. I think it's probably one of the wisest decisions in the world for you to be leery of having children - I'd hate to think what environment they'd grow up in. You seem awfully scarred in your view of women - don't know why & it really doesn't matter. It would just be nice if you could admit that there ARE women out there who want equality in a relationship, who are willing to work for it, and who wouldn't dream of being "walkaways." You blame modern women for the way I look at marriage. Just look at the stories from men on these boards who thought they had happy marriages and all of a sudden their wife drops the bomb on them. Half of all marriages end in divorce and women initiate 75% of these splits. There are some walkaway husbands but overwhelming it is women who turn and it usually not even for reasons like abuse and infidelity. Any man who doesn't view marriage like I do is a fool in my book. You don't take a gamble like this without some sort of plan B.
Woggle Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Wed. is our 14th anniversary. I wonder when I'm supposed to walk away? Anywho, Wog's wife is too old for kids so no worries there. Phew! Like I said before there is a whole world outside of the bubble and just because you are not part of a trend does not mean it is not a trend.
sally4sara Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 If feminists don't want to be lumped in with misandrists they should do more to seperate themselves but they don't. Go to the NOW website and they are pretty much opposed to every effort from fathers rights groups to make family court more fair for men. The mainstream feminists fight men every inch of the way and then tell us with a straight face that they just want equality. I don't buy it. Why don't YOU do more to separate yourself from misogynists? Ever heard the expression "be the change you want to see in the world"? All one can do is tend their own little corner of the world without risking their sanity. Yes I have an escape plan for my marriage and any man these days does. With the walkaway wife trend and the way women these days treat marriage men need to be prepared just in case his wife is the one who turns. I am commited to her but just in case she does walk I am prepared. I am also leery of having children because I don't want them growing up in a broken home plus if she does walk out I want to be able to cut her out of my life completely. I can't do that if I have kids with her. MAN! I feel so bad for your wife! She likely deserves a man who doesn't give her the stink eye when her back is turned. I'm not going to go to some website I don't agree with. That is a pointless thing to do. I don't know why YOU patronize a website you don't support unless its just to get your blood up. And you keep saying mainstream......I have never met ANY women who feel like men should butt out of parenting. The only people I've heard express that men are not suited for rearing children are MEN. Men who don't want to be bothered with it. MEN who would rather the nanny be a young uneducated woman than a man with a nursing degree. MEN who would feel funny about being the one to stay at home till they are in school. Occasionally I hear a woman say they would be more comfortable with being the one to SAHP than their husband doing it.....but most men would refuse if given the option. Hell Wogs, my father has walked out on every single child he has helped create. Two boys with his first wife, me with my mom, and two more boys with a woman he didn't bother to marry. If I used your logic, I would hate men because of him and think they should be removed from parenting. But then, I'm not afraid of life or love or putting in the effort to make individual distinctions the way you are. What a chicken $***!
Woggle Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 If my wife remains commited I will as well but I am prepared in case she turns. I have things set up so that if she does walk I can quickly slide back into a single man's life. I hope I never have to but it gives me piece of mind to know that the plan is there. It just amazes that with the way trends are today that woman still think men should just blindly jump into something as unstable as modern day marriage. Women talk a good game about men helping out but raising kids without a father is seen these days as a great statement of female independence.
sally4sara Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 You blame modern women for the way I look at marriage. Just look at the stories from men on these boards who thought they had happy marriages and all of a sudden their wife drops the bomb on them. Half of all marriages end in divorce and women initiate 75% of these splits. There are some walkaway husbands but overwhelming it is women who turn and it usually not even for reasons like abuse and infidelity. Any man who doesn't view marriage like I do is a fool in my book. You don't take a gamble like this without some sort of plan B. And they would never lie about that would they Wogs? They would NEVER feel more comfortable kidding themselves that they didn't contributed to these events in any way..... Puleez
Woggle Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 And they would never lie about that would they Wogs? They would NEVER feel more comfortable kidding themselves that they didn't contributed to these events in any way..... Puleez Some may have contributed to it but I have seen it enough in real life to know it is a trend.
sally4sara Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Women talk a good game about men helping out but raising kids without a father is seen these days as a great statement of female independence. If a woman finds herself having to raise a child without a father and is doing it well, she should be able to give herself props for it without you taking offense. I considered it my father's loss that he wasn't up for the challenge. My mother still feels horribly guilty that she couldn't get him to stay for me. I cannot even have a disagreement with her WITHOUT her thinking I'm never going to forgive her for it. And the sad fact is, I never blamed her for what he did. I bent over backwards trying to make being a father a worthwhile pursuit to my son's dad.....he just couldn't hold it down. I HAD TO. Should I NOT feel proud over how awesome my son has turned out to be? Should I NOT feel proud of myself for being able to handle it without the help of someone who should have helped but couldn't be asked most of the time? I still don't hate men. You have no excuse. Get over it.
Touche Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Like I said before there is a whole world outside of the bubble and just because you are not part of a trend does not mean it is not a trend. Trend, shmend. The divorce rate is what...50%? That means that the other half are fine, dear.
Woggle Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 If a woman finds herself having to raise a child without a father and is doing it well, she should be able to give herself props for it without you taking offense. I considered it my father's loss that he wasn't up for the challenge. My mother still feels horribly guilty that she couldn't get him to stay for me. I cannot even have a disagreement with her WITHOUT her thinking I'm never going to forgive her for it. And the sad fact is, I never blamed her for what he did. I bent over backwards trying to make being a father a worthwhile pursuit to my son's dad.....he just couldn't hold it down. I HAD TO. Should I NOT feel proud over how awesome my son has turned out to be? Should I NOT feel proud of myself for being able to handle it without the help of someone who should have helped but couldn't be asked most of the time? I still don't hate men. You have no excuse. Get over it. Your mother and yourself did what you could with a bad situation but I know many men who have to fight the mother of their children tooth and nail just to be able to call them on christmas. My mother made it clear that she did not want me in the divorce but she would never give my father custody because that would be letting a man win. This is her actual reasoning for wanting custody.
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