The questions I'm afraid to ask him...

[carhill]

OP, can you set a healthy boundary right now? Communicate that to him? Have contact with him and still have a firm grasp of what you know is your truth and perspective? If yes, meet with him. If no, cut contact. That's my advice.

 

What you just shared concerns me. I know this dynamic. My story is irrelevant here but I see many parallels.

 

BTW, have you had any counseling during your marriages or single life? I can say that the tools I learned in there sure have helped me. They're actually helping me right now as I type this, since I'm sensing something in the background and having to process it. I've learned to just accept that and not try to control it, rather process it to a healthier place.

 

Adding, regarding social stigmas of divorce, my wife clearly said, and likely stayed in our M longer than she might have otherwise, that she "didn't want to be a three-time loser". Those were her words, not mine. I didn't consider her to be a "two-time loser" when she married me, but that is in obvious contrast to her perspective. Whether that is internal or ingrained socially, I do not know. I do know that managing our social contacts during the D process has not been easy for me emotionally. No clue as to how it is for her. One more datapoint.

[norajane]

Why would he be calling ME and wanting to see ME if everything is OK at home?

While he might SAY that he's not having a mid-life crisis, he probably is to some degree. Or at least experiencing some nostalgia for his lost youth. And you represent his youth. And you're crazy about him and he probably knows that and has known that since you were 17. So he wants to relive that.

 

That's why he would contact you instead of picking someone up at the conference for no-strings sex, or starting an affair with someone more convenient.

 

As to why he would want to relive anything with you or why he'd pick up someone at a conference or start an affair with someone more convenient if everything is ok at home, surely you've read enough about cake-eaters to understand THAT concept. Two women stroking his ego are better than one.

 

Or do you want us to tell you he's contacting you because you are the love of his life and he's finally ready to divorce and be with you? We can't tell you that. Only he can, and he should be prepared to back that up by filing for divorce.

 

He's not doing this because he wants the friendship. He wouldn't be calling you 3 times a day and offering to fly you out for a conference if that's all it was.

[carhill]

He's not doing this because he wants the friendship. He wouldn't be calling you 3 times a day and offering to fly you out for a conference if that's all it was.

 

I agree. OP, you need to accept this.

[sassy77]

I think I've opened a can of worms here. I've not asked him to leave his wife or even tell her about me. I've not given him an ultimatum of any kind. For god's sake... I've only been talking to him a little over 3 weeks. I don't want to marry him now... or quite possibly ever. I'm just trying to be smart, I guess, while at the same time being stupid... if there is such a thing. I'm just trying to figure out if there is a way to maintain SOME kind of relationship with him or if I have to let the whole thing go, which, I'm just being honest here... I don't want to do. I did break up with him when he was getting ready to go to med school. I knew we were too young... and that nearly killed me.... because we were best friends for 4 years before we even started dating so he was more to me than a BF to me. And then we just sort of lost touch with each other. I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't on Cloud 9 when I heard his voice on the phone. But I'm starting to come down from the "cloud" now and I'm just trying to process all of it.

 

Really and truly... I do appreciate all the input. I know everybody has an opinion and a reason for said opinion, but I can hear so much hostility in some of these posts and I have to wonder... where is that all coming from??

[wildsoul]

Why would he be calling ME and wanting to see ME if everything is OK at home?

Because an emotional intrigue is MUCH more compelling than an only-sex one.

 

Because he knows you bear a torch for him.

 

Because he might have wondered about you over the years too, and the curiosity is driving him to explore it.

 

Because he's given you several tests already, and you've demonstrated that you have NO discomfort about forging an emotional affair with him.

 

Because he trusts you enough not to be a bunny boiler (more than someone he doesn't know.)

 

Because you've probably already said you're "happy to be single," as you said to us, and he thinks you might not be the kind of OW who will want him to leave his W for you.

 

One of the reasons he might not be telling you there is problems in his M is that he doesn't want to lead you on that he would leave his M for an OW.

 

You will NEVER have more self-control over saying no and stopping the trainwreck than you do right now. Trust me on this. Ask any other OW here. This is not a small decision you are facing. It's a turning point.

 

You don't want input on your decision, so it seems that you've already decided. Fair enough. You DO get to set boundaries over what kind of input you want. But it's hard to not comment on that, when people here have read this same situation a zillion times and would hope to spare you some of the pain that will most likely result. Try not to be offended & irritated by that. It's just that we care.

[greengoddess]

Really and truly... I do appreciate all the input. I know everybody has an opinion and a reason for said opinion, but I can hear so much hostility in some of these posts and I have to wonder... where is that all coming from??

 

 

Wow that is so odd. I do not see any hostility in any of the posts? Where is the hostility that you see?

[carhill]

Hostility generally comes from hurt. Think back to your two marriages. Also, there is a pretty clear mandate here on LS as to what is appropriate and inappropriate contact with the opposite gender when in a committed relationship. You may not agree but it does color the readings here.

 

I've found there are multiple paths to one's truth. I'm personally glad I followed the one I chose. I hope you take away from this discussion what is of importance to you and find your way in your own time. That's the great benefit of this forum

[jwi71]

Why would he be calling ME and wanting to see ME if everything is OK at home?

 

This is rationalization 101.

My question to YOU is why you would accept HIS advances given the gazillion others in the world? He is, after all, MARRIED. So...why?

There are a gazillion other people in the world... and most certainly, many more convenient to him... so I guess that's my question... which I know that only he can answer, but then again... I'm not stupid. My chances of getting a straight answer are probably better here as they are if I ask him.

Re-read that OP. Then read it again.

You won't ask him for what reason? Go on and say it. Then say it again.

Remember this going forward...NEVER forget why you won't ask him...

Sadly, you are setting yourself up for some earth shaking pain.

 

And, further... he never said he was "happy" in his marriage... he just didn't talk about any problems. But he never went so far to use the word "happy" - he was just kinda neutral and didn't really speak negatively of his wife... which is why I assumed that they "get along" Ok. But I don't think I ever said that he had a "happy marriage"... I don't know what kind of marriage he has. I have not asked him that.

Rationalization 102.

 

You have already decided to continue and probably escalate your A. Most of them they end horribly for the OW/OM. I know...in one ear and out the other...

 

So..to your question...why you? Why did he pick you?

 

Maybe you are the one who got away sexually...and he seeks to correct that mistake. Or maybe he is, as previously posted, seeking to recapture lost youth - aka midlife crisis. Or maybe he wants an OW that is far away to protect his family, life and professional/personal standing in his community. I'd say ask HIM...but you won't. I already covered that.

 

Now...its because YOU allow it. You're the low hanging fruit ripe for picking. He has a "not happy M", history with you...and now this "connection". Combine that with the resources and excuse to be away from home...he has the perfect trappings for an A.

 

Cheaters rarely want divorces...they want affairs. And so do you.

 

Good luck OP...the end is clear to us on the outside.

[White Flower]

I'm new here... I just found LS yesterday and I am addicted. I have been reading and reading... and oh yeah, did I mention... READING... ... everything I can find pertaining to my situation.

 

I'm the OW... never thought I'd say that, but I am. My old BF from high school asked around and got my number and called me a couple of weeks ago after 20 years of not seeing or talking to each other. He's married. I'm divorced. We broke up when we were 17, the summer after graduation, because he was going to medical school. (BTW... we have never had sex.) He was, however, the love of my life and I have thought about him every single day for the last 20 years. I cried when I got married... because I still loved him. I cried when HE got married... because I still loved him!!

 

Anyway... FF 20 years and now he's calling me several times a day, emailing me, and has asked me to fly out to California to spend a week with him when he has to attend a conference in August. It has turned into a full-fledged EA in the matter of a month.

 

Here's where I'm confused... but I don't want to ask him. He doesn't seem to be having any marital problems. He doesn't complain about his wife... in fact, from the things he says, they seem to get along fine. So I'm wondering - for anybody who has been on either side of the fence - what's up with that? Why would he be calling me and wanting to see me if everything is OK at home?

Because he wants excitement. That's it, and nothing more. Throw in an emotional attachment from the past, even better. Long distance, perfect.

 

Don't ever give him the satisfaction of a PA.

[White Flower]

This is rationalization 101.

My question to YOU is why you would accept HIS advances given the gazillion others in the world? He is, after all, MARRIED. So...why?

Re-read that OP. Then read it again.

You won't ask him for what reason? Go on and say it. Then say it again.

Remember this going forward...NEVER forget why you won't ask him...

Sadly, you are setting yourself up for some earth shaking pain.

 

Rationalization 102.

 

You have already decided to continue and probably escalate your A. Most of them they end horribly for the OW/OM. I know...in one ear and out the other...

 

So..to your question...why you? Why did he pick you?

 

Maybe you are the one who got away sexually...and he seeks to correct that mistake. Or maybe he is, as previously posted, seeking to recapture lost youth - aka midlife crisis. Or maybe he wants an OW that is far away to protect his family, life and professional/personal standing in his community. I'd say ask HIM...but you won't. I already covered that.

 

Now...its because YOU allow it. You're the low hanging fruit ripe for picking. He has a "not happy M", history with you...and now this "connection". Combine that with the resources and excuse to be away from home...he has the perfect trappings for an A.

 

Cheaters rarely want divorces...they want affairs. And so do you.

 

Good luck OP...the end is clear to us on the outside.

This was a very observant and honest post. We posted at the same time and I think we covered the same bases, only I didn't make it obvious that the OP is avoiding knowing the answers she won't ask (him).

[carhill]

Don't ever give him the satisfaction of a PA.

 

Great impetus to a question...

 

OP, if you agreed to meet with him and he approached you sexually/romantically, what would you do? What would you do if he was friendly but distant and professional, IOW a gentleman?

 

Remember, prior, I talked about what *you* want and your path. You can't control him. For that matter, he's essentially a stranger except for the distant past and what he's shared during your phone calls. IMO, that's a perspective worth respecting.

 

Beware of pedestal-building. BTDT, got the wounds to prove it...

[White Flower]

Great impetus to a question...

 

OP, if you agreed to meet with him and he approached you sexually/romantically, what would you do? What would you do if he was friendly but distant and professional, IOW a gentleman?

 

Remember, prior, I talked about what *you* want and your path. You can't control him. For that matter, he's essentially a stranger except for the distant past and what he's shared during your phone calls. IMO, that's a perspective worth respecting.

 

Beware of pedestal-building. BTDT, got the wounds to prove it...

Let's make sure to explain that the person doing the pedestal-building is the one who hurts the most when the image shatters into a million pieces. We do that to ourselves.

[carhill]

I'm reinforcing a concept I think the OP is already aware of. She seems very insightful. I'm trying to create an environment where she feels comfortable to continue to share her story in the hopes that our perspectives will help her. This was the key thing our psychologist did with us in getting me to accept my friendship as inappropriate to the M. Brow-beating and tough love wouldn't have worked with me. He tried that

 

OP, to that question...what would you do? Adding, it is critically important to be emotionally honest with this. Not intellectually honest, but rather emotionally. The thinking part comes later

[JeezLouise]

Hmmmm... ok... let me rephrase this - or maybe just RETYPE this...

 

Why would he be calling ME and wanting to see ME if everything is OK at home?

 

There are a gazillion other people in the world... and most certainly, many more convenient to him... so I guess that's my question... which I know that only he can answer, but then again... I'm not stupid. My chances of getting a straight answer are probably better here as they are if I ask him.

 

And, further... he never said he was "happy" in his marriage... he just didn't talk about any problems. But he never went so far to use the word "happy" - he was just kinda neutral and didn't really speak negatively of his wife... which is why I assumed that they "get along" Ok. But I don't think I ever said that he had a "happy marriage"... I don't know what kind of marriage he has. I have not asked him that.

 

Most MMs don't talk to a potential OW and say, "We are really happy and I am very content in my marriage - except sexually. The bedroom has gotten a bit mundane, and that first passtion and fire has died. I love my wife very much and I would hate to hurt her, so that is why your being long-distance is so convenient for this week long tryst. "

[fooled once]

He contacted YOU because he knew you would jump at the chance to be with him again.

 

I find it actually funny that you said you have thought of him every single day for the last 20 years. I truly do. You thought of this guy ever. single. day. for 20 years? Isn't that sad?

 

You got married and cried when you got married because it wasn't to him -- twice? Why get married then?

 

Anyway, back to your question - he wants his ego stroked - plain and simple.

 

You don't know about his marriage and why would he tell you the truth anyway? You are the one he is trying to get with. If he told you he loved his wife and they were trying to have kids -- would you still get involved?

[White Flower]

How about when they tell you they don't love their W but still stay for the adult kids who have moved out? They will tell you anything.

[2sunny]

he only asked for you to meet at the convention to be physical with him... otherwise - he would be satisfied to keep it to limited phone calls. let's be real.

 

what happens if you go - you will sleep with him... then what?

 

what happens when you get home? expectations need to be established ahead of time so that he can't say afterwards "i told you i was happily married." because, most likely, he will. he will either with his words - or by his actions (or both) when he pulls away and becomes emotionally distant from you because he returned home and feels guilty.

 

i see hurt and pain coming from this. can you consider not meeting him? is he happy enough to chat on the phone? something must be missing in his marriage or he wouldn't be spending this much time and energy corresponding with you.

 

maybe you can view him as a potential sex buddy? is that something you are likely to consider? the emotions have to stay out of it though, if it is to work properly for no one to get hurt.

 

fyi, you CAN just be friends with the opposite sex - but there always needs to be a clear boundary agreed upon that you aren't in the friendship for sex with them... you are only in the friendship to love, encourage and lift them up, while at the same time always feeling safe and connected. ideally, with a great friend - this is always two sided. if the correspondence is to ultimately be intimate and physical - then it's not just for the friendship.

[White Flower]

Good post 2sunny, but my guess is the OP is too emotionally charged for a FWB sitch. She thought about him on her wedding day and for her he set the standard on love. I see her getting real burned on this one.

 

OP, don't do like I did. I wanted to see how far this guy (exMM) would play it out. I found out! Wish I didn't.

[carhill]

Maybe seeing his true colors will knock the pedestal down, perhaps giving her some real, albeit painful, closure.

 

Maybe he's been married twice and thinking about her every day too. Maybe he won't be a sex hound but rather respectful and proper. Maybe, if he sees a connection there still, he will do the right thing and respect her and his wife and end his marriage if he's not happy/fulfilled/in love. Like someone said upthread, in contravention to my suggestions, divorce has no social stigma.

 

Maybe, maybe...

[2sunny]

i would be interested to understand the content of their phone calls so far - casual or intimate in nature?

 

that might give an idea of what he has in mind for the weekend of the convention and her participation expectations.

[sassy77]

First - I just want to say thanks to all of you for your advice and words of wisdom. I sincerely mean that. After reading and thinking all day today... you know, you're right. Why should I play second fiddle to anybody? I do miss him, and yes, "fooled once" - as funny as it is, I have thought about him nearly every day for 20 years. I just never stopped loving him... and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has been there, done that. So maybe I'll just try to keep it platonic and see where it goes. I have not told him that I'd meet him for sure... I told him I'd think about it. I'm an honest person... would I be happy if he left his wife? Sure I would. And yeah, I kind of got my feelings hurt when I read some of the things that were written here today... but as I said, I'm an honest person and honestly, the things that hurt my feelings were the things that I didn't want to hear but quite frankly really needed to hear. I especially appreciate everyone who HAS been in my shoes looking out for me. I know you don't know me, but just to know you care enough to be straight-up and tell it like it is, well... that tells me that the majority of you are really good, decent people who have made mistakes in the past and really want to spare me the heartache. And for that, I'm thankful.

[White Flower]

I know you don't know me, but just to know you care enough to be straight-up and tell it like it is, well... that tells me that the majority of you are really good, decent people who have made mistakes in the past and really want to spare me the heartache. And for that, I'm thankful.

Yes we do and that's why we take the time to post. We just don't want you getting on board that roller coaster ride if we can prevent it.

 

Hugs,

WF.

[carhill]

Yeah, no shyte. OP, if you've got time, read my evolution journals. Lotsa messed-up stuff in there. That was the beginning. Some of it is still going on a generation later but I am working on it. Communication is the hardest part. I need to find a woman who understands my riddles

[White Flower]

Yeah, no shyte. OP, if you've got time, read my evolution journals. Lotsa messed-up stuff in there. That was the beginning. Some of it is still going on a generation later but I am working on it. Communication is the hardest part. I need to find a woman who understands my riddles

Carhill, are you a SG now?

[carhill]

Carhill, are you a SG now?

Legally no; emotionally, yes. In reality, I've felt emotionally single for a few years now. I had typed a longer answer but found it superfluous and off-topic.

 

OP, just one possible outcome of re-connecting with a past love. Think it through....