Everything Hit the Fan. Wife found out. He wants polyamorous relationship.

[boldjack]

Great post Athena. Just because a person is a "professional" councellor, doesn't mean that they are either competant or helpful. Not all mechanics or plumbers or Dentists are good, some are better than others. Scarlett needs to find a councellor or therapist who will tell her what she NEEDS to hear, not a "feel good" type, who tells her what she wants to hear.

[serial muse]

I think the part that stands out for me Scarlett, is that you say you tried dating other men, but it didn't work out - that you "need him like air."

 

That, to me, says you are NOT going to be okay with sharing. No matter how you convince yourself right now that you're okay with the idea, I don't think you would be okay with the reality of it. Right now, you're getting the story from him that he doesn't have the spark with his wife that he has with you - that makes you feel special to him. That is actually pretty classic affair speak on his part.

 

The polyamorous thing, however, is a different animal. For both of you. People have raised the question, correctly, of whether you, too, would have additional lovers. That's a question for both you and him - because you seem to be saying you wouldn't need or want them, and it's not clear how he would feel about it, either.

 

But here's another thing. If you're truly polyamorous, that also means that he might acquire additional partners, beyond just you and his wife - newer partners with whom he could also find a special "spark." Could you handle that? It seems like a very real possibility, given that he's cheated multiple times in the past.

 

From what I've read of your posts, this really isn't what you want. Even if you don't want him as a "life partner" (and I wonder if that's true, deep down), I suspect what you really want from him is to feel special. Right now, I think you're laboring under the illusion that he is, at least sexually, willing to commit to you or acknowledge that in that arena you reign supreme in his life.

 

Supposing - just supposing - that that was taken away, too, as he meets new people and your relationship continues to evolve? This is not a man who feels it necessary to commit to one person, whether it's you or his wife. So let's say that your relationship isn't the only sexually satisfying one in his life, and that he talks eagerly to you someday of a new partner that he finds exciting and can't stop lusting/obsessing over. Would you still want to share him, under those new terms? What would it bring you? How would it be good for you? How would you feel special to him?

[White Flower]

Great post Athena. Just because a person is a "professional" councellor, doesn't mean that they are either competant or helpful. Not all mechanics or plumbers or Dentists are good, some are better than others. Scarlett needs to find a councellor or therapist who will tell her what she NEEDS to hear, not a "feel good" type, who tells her what she wants to hear.

Boldjack,

 

You need to keep posting until you get at leat 500 posts in so that you can have PM rights. I am very sure that you will become popular here and that BSs as well as OWs will seek your advice and profound (newfoud;)) honesty. OR you could upgrade your account by paying for it to get PM rights. I've been wanting to PM you for a few days now.

 

I applaud your desire to change and be the man you always knew you could be.

[Athena]

Whiteflower -- 500 posts? I don't have that many, and I already have had PM privileges for some time now!

 

Boldjack, you are one in a million, and I too need to pick your brain, lol!

[White Flower]

Whiteflower -- 500 posts? I don't have that many, and I already have had PM privileges for some time now!

 

Boldjack, you are one in a million, and I too need to pick your brain, lol!

That is what it took for me in Oct 07 when I became a member. Perhaps you posted a lot in a short period of time and perhaps they've changed their rules here at LS since then?

[Dexter Morgan]

Naww. Wouldn't work for you.

 

Sure it would. A decent looking man who cheats and is a cocky bastige??

Thats what women go for.

[Athena]

Sure it would. A decent looking man who cheats and is a cocky bastige??

Thats what women go for.

 

Yeah? Well, what quality of women? Any kind that YOU'D be interested in? so -- not worth your while attracting the wrong kind of female, right?

 

As I told my son's friend who turned up at our front door after a recent shopping trip to NYC, uncharacteristically pimped out in logo shirt, loud belt, and designer sunglasses -- "You are going to attract the wrong kind of girl" (but, he, at age 21 said 'nah, the Right kinda girl!!')

 

Dexter, what's the point of using some lame method of being a cocky barsteward when you will only be attracting skanky biotches? Yeah, yeah, I know that's not what you are really after, because I have read enough of your posts to see your consistency, which, btw is far more attractive than some cock-n-bull story OM make up for meaningless, worthless pleasure

[2sure]

Scarlett,

 

You cannot date others , find someone who loves you and that you love...until this man is far behind you. There is no finding someone to help you get over him, or to distract you from MM - it just does not happen that way.

 

However - once you have put MM far behind you - and find your own love - you will wonder what you were doing.

 

Even if his wife were somewhat into an open arrangement or open to the three of you being involved....now that you are the woman he went behind her back with...you are going to be off limits. In fact, if she is as open minded as he hopes she is...the two of them may rekindle the spark together just by looking for a partner they both like.

 

He has told you he is not interested in divorcing his wife. he has told you everything is up to whatever his wife wants to do....So, you are not only spending holidays alone because he is married...your emotional life is on hold while his wife makes decisions that affect you.

 

Scarlett....this one is just too sad.

[Dexter Morgan]

Yeah? Well, what quality of women? Any kind that YOU'D be interested in? so -- not worth your while attracting the wrong kind of female, right?

 

exactly. I turned down one woman because of her taste in men. Told her I wasn't her type when she wouldn't leave me alone and was quite annoying. She was a little flabergasted. I guess she couldn't believe a man could turn down a woman.

 

 

Dexter, what's the point of using some lame method of being a cocky barsteward when you will only be attracting skanky biotches?

 

For me there wouldn't be any point to it. it was a sarcastic comment and I am not going to be like that.

 

But if someone were to adopt that behavior to get women, it would be to simply get laid, nothing more.

 

Here is the problem with women going for that kind of guy. they want someone they "think" is exciting and great in bed. Then after a while of women wanting a "bad boy", they decide they want a good man that will not disrespect them. Problem with that is....I think we are being settled for and I won't stand for that.

 

True, unless I know the woman ahead of time, how do I know she is a bad boy hag turned to the good guys?

[Athena]

 

(...) Problem with that is....I think we are being settled for and I won't stand for that.

 

True, unless I know the woman ahead of time, how do I know she is a bad boy hag turned to the good guys?

 

LOL! True!

 

And you know, this starts pretty young -- my 21 yr old son, who is a wonderful young man, was told by a friend of a friend that women only sleep with guys who treat them badly, and this guys older brother treats young women his age like $hit, and he is very popular.

 

I am very glad that my son didn't buy into that by changing who he is. My son has had a g/f since age 16, and all his various relationships range in length from 9mths to 20 mths... and as far as I can see, he doesn't miss out on anything, since he has plenty of female friends (and male) in addition to a loving g/f. If there is one thing I have helped to get done right on earth, it is raising a son (and a daughter) to turn out like this.

[NoIDidn't]

I'm late but need a recap.

 

The A is out in the open now, and MM and his W want to engage in a polyamorous R with the OP?

 

Or is that what MM is now calling the A that is never meant to be truly poly?

[Athena]

I'm late but need a recap.

 

The A is out in the open now, and MM and his W want to engage in a polyamorous R with the OP?

 

Or is that what MM is now calling the A that is never meant to be truly poly?

 

The A was outed, and was stopped. W was mad at MM b/c she had offered to do a threesome for him if he ever wanted one again (she had done one before for him) but TOGETHER, now she finds out MM and OP went behind her back.

 

MM and W trying to work on M, but MM gets an idea and puts it to OP to make it a threesome with his W... not that he has asked his W about keeping his OW, but OW is now buying into the idea somewhat...

[NoIDidn't]

The A was outed, and was stopped. W was mad at MM b/c she had offered to do a threesome for him if he ever wanted one again (she had done one before for him) but TOGETHER, now she finds out MM and OP went behind her back.

 

MM and W trying to work on M, but MM gets an idea and puts it to OP to make it a threesome with his W... not that he has asked his W about keeping his OW, but OW is now buying into the idea somewhat...

 

Wow! Thanks.

 

What a tangled web we weave, huh?

 

Hope the OP isn't trying to talk herself into this. If I were this W, the threesome idea would be out because I didn't have a say when they did the Tango before.

 

Truth is stranger than fiction.

 

Good luck, OP.

[Chrome Barracuda]

The truth of the matter is that I think the W is fed up of being the mistress and I think she's gonna get some on the side herself without feeling guilty for it, her mindset is like if my husband wants to play then i can too. But scarlett put herself in the this position herself when she started sleeping with a married man knowing he was still married. I dont have any sympathy for her. I think the whole situation is just disgusting.

 

If your gonna run around with another woman than just divorce let your wife be loved by someone better than you, stop being a narcissist!

[Dexter Morgan]

LOL! True!

 

And you know, this starts pretty young -- my 21 yr old son, who is a wonderful young man, was told by a friend of a friend that women only sleep with guys who treat them badly, and this guys older brother treats young women his age like $hit, and he is very popular.

 

I am very glad that my son didn't buy into that by changing who he is. My son has had a g/f since age 16, and all his various relationships range in length from 9mths to 20 mths... and as far as I can see, he doesn't miss out on anything, since he has plenty of female friends (and male) in addition to a loving g/f. If there is one thing I have helped to get done right on earth, it is raising a son (and a daughter) to turn out like this.

 

thats why now in my early 40's, having never cheated on a woman, never hit them, never went out on them, don't yell and scream when having an argument, and always keeps her feelings in mind...at this late stage now that all the women have gotten their bad boys out of their system, I can be very selective.

 

but really, I don't even want a woman that has to get the bad boys out of their system and NOW all of a sudden want a guy that would treat them with respect. Again, its like we are being settled for.

 

funny we are talking about this, the woman I'm with made a mention when the subject came up at a social gathering when one of her girlfriends mentioned that she finally found some well grounded guy that doesn't screw around on her. The term "bad boy" came up and she said, "they were fun in their day, but I have a caught me a good guy now"

 

I said "excuse me"?? You could have cut the tension with a knife. The woman that started the conversation obviously knew where this was going. My SO said, "you are a catch because I know you aren't the cheating type". I did say, "well, nice to know I'm being settled for"

 

So I may be rethinking this relationship.

[Athena]

thats why now in my early 40's, having never cheated on a woman, never hit them, never went out on them, don't yell and scream when having an argument, and always keeps her feelings in mind...at this late stage now that all the women have gotten their bad boys out of their system, I can be very selective.

 

but really, I don't even want a woman that has to get the bad boys out of their system and NOW all of a sudden want a guy that would treat them with respect. Again, its like we are being settled for.

 

funny we are talking about this, the woman I'm with made a mention when the subject came up at a social gathering when one of her girlfriends mentioned that she finally found some well grounded guy that doesn't screw around on her. The term "bad boy" came up and she said, "they were fun in their day, but I have a caught me a good guy now"

 

I said "excuse me"?? You could have cut the tension with a knife. The woman that started the conversation obviously knew where this was going. My SO said, "you are a catch because I know you aren't the cheating type". I did say, "well, nice to know I'm being settled for"

 

So I may be rethinking this relationship.

 

Wow. So, you now see a part of your new woman that you didn't see before! If she had met you 15 years ago, she would have passed you up for one of those Idiots... hmmmm

Look, you are already involved with her now, so there's obviously something about her you really like....

Don't know if there's any sense in punishing her for her stupidity in her past, although for sure, that's not an attractive side of her!

Keep your eyes open.

[Dexter Morgan]

Wow. So, you now see a part of your new woman that you didn't see before! If she had met you 15 years ago, she would have passed you up for one of those Idiots... hmmmm

 

more than likely

 

 

Look, you are already involved with her now, so there's obviously something about her you really like....

 

And now something about her I really dislike

 

 

Don't know if there's any sense in punishing her for her stupidity in her past, although for sure, that's not an attractive side of her!

Keep your eyes open.

 

Not sure I'd want to punish her for her past, but its what she said in the present....to me she was saying she is settling. Of course she isn't going to see it that way, but she needs to realize how I heard it.

[anne1707]

 

Not sure I'd want to punish her for her past, but its what she said in the present....to me she was saying she is settling. Of course she isn't going to see it that way, but she needs to realize how I heard it.

 

Give her a chance Dexter. Knowing you (as much as is possible via LS), you will have already watched out for any warning signs - and not found any (until now). Obviously what you have posted here is an edited conversation and without the benefit of all the non-verbal signs but I do not interpret it immediately as "settling." Maybe it is as you hoped that she no longer wants a bad boy and wants a good man instead.

[Dexter Morgan]

Give her a chance Dexter. Knowing you (as much as is possible via LS), you will have already watched out for any warning signs - and not found any (until now). Obviously what you have posted here is an edited conversation and without the benefit of all the non-verbal signs but I do not interpret it immediately as "settling." Maybe it is as you hoped that she no longer wants a bad boy and wants a good man instead.

 

Well this statement "they were fun in their day, but I have a caught me a good guy now" pissed me off.

 

They were fun in their day. Its like she is getting ready to go out to pasture and wants someone who isn't "fun" out of security.

 

She knew she effed up when she said that, so did her friend for bringing up the "bad boy" comment.

 

needless to say, I'm now bothered by her comment. As if she is simply tired of the drama and reluctantly is settling for the stable guy as opposed to a guy that can make her toes curl. (not saying I can't do that for her, but it comes out to me that way)

[anne1707]

They were fun in their day.

 

I used to enjoy going out clubbing every week. It was fun in its day but now I would hate it. You are jumping to a conclusion and could be very wrong. Give her a chance and also give your previous views of her a chance to tell you that you might be the one who is wrong here.

[Athena]

Dexter, now I really get how you heard it, you explained it very well. And it makes sense how you got that understanding.

[doushenka]

GOOD CALL OWOMAN!!! Right on the money, I'd wager.

 

Seconding this. Folks like the OP's man give poly people a bad name -- really, we're a lot more ethical about it!

 

Run, OP. Run like heck. This is a classic example of "relationship broken, add more people" and you don't want to be in the "more people" category if you can help it.

[Stung]

dexter, i have to second what anne said. it seems there are a lot of assumptions being made about the meaning behind her (to me) fairly innocent, off-the-cuff statement. i am unacquainted with both you and your woman, obviously, so i can't make any conclusions about how she really meant it, but i can offer up my own story to combat your notion that any woman who went from bad boys to good guys is 'settling'.

 

i had quite the bad boy addiction, myself, in my late teens and well into my twenties. and they were fun, in their way, although there was always a lot of drama and pain associated with them, too. but then i was into a lot of simultaneously fun and horrible, dramatic and painful things back then, because i had terrible self-esteem after many years of being repeatedly molested by a family member throughout my formative years. i was a mess, so i was drawn to messes. i sabotaged myself in school and in my career with disastrous love affairs and with drugs, and i knew it was stupid, and i hated myself for it, and i desperately wanted something better. i went to multiple therapists for years, forced myself into celibacy for two years in an attempt to retrain myself, and finally after much effort i was able to start having healthy relationships with good men. now i am with the best, most honorable, sweetest man i have ever known and i am thrilled to be his partner and his soon-to-be-wife, but i also thank god that i didn't even meet him until i was thirty-one, because i would simply not have been ready for him before then or capable of sustaining a serious long-term relationship with him.

 

i don't think i settled for him, i think i worked my ass off for him. and he is nothing like the bad boys i used to work myself into a tizzy over ten, fifteen years ago, and that's a huge relief.

 

and i think that some version of my story is actually pretty common.

 

 

as for the OP, so as not to completely hijack this thread: scarlett, i don't have much of anything new to say to you, to be honest. i, too, suspect that what your MM is angling for is less polyamory and more harem, but i think you're going to have to find out his pitfalls the hard way, as i had to with mine. i agree with a PP that your claim to need this man 'like air' is troubling; it's kinda dysfunctional to feel that way about anybody, much less a married man who's demonstrably untrustworthy and faithless. however, i think you are going to go ahead and try the threesome relationship, so i wish you well with it. i hope you and the W manage to come to some sort of compromise and not bruise and batter one another's egos and emotions overmuch. i hope your MM will eventually come to grips with his fundamental self-absorption, and that you will continue to update us as things progress and not let some of the judgier posters scare you away. just...try not to let this man subsume you.

[MichelleS1983]

Don't worry about him, he'll find someone else to use. He's done it before.

LOL...I think she KNOWS how easily she'll be replaced, and that's why she's desperately trying to cling to this crud any way she can - even if it includes a threesome with his wife.

 

Wow, he must be some prize for you to be willing to pay such a high price to keep his worthless lying ass around.

[White Flower]

Great post Athena. Just because a person is a "professional" councellor, doesn't mean that they are either competant or helpful. Not all mechanics or plumbers or Dentists are good, some are better than others. Scarlett needs to find a councellor or therapist who will tell her what she NEEDS to hear, not a "feel good" type, who tells her what she wants to hear.

Boldjack,

 

What happened to your avie? I tried responding to your PM and it said you chose not to receive PMs. I did save my post to you in a draft so that I can send it to you once this is cleared up.

 

Thanks,

WF.