Update

[Touche]

I don't think what CP is saying is baloney at all. I've seen it with my own eyes.

 

In fact, in smaller companies that can't justify the expense of a full HR dept. the secretaries perform the HR tasks which yep, consists mainly of just a bunch of paperwork and filing.

[Ariadne]

The only thing HR is capable of mananging is paperwork. It's not a role that needs any specific qualifications, it's not creative, it's not value adding. It's not something that anyone with any capability is inspired to go into.

 

Oh, I get it. So Spookie's drama is like soap opera for HR.

[sunshinegirl]

I don't think what CP is saying is baloney at all. I've seen it with my own eyes.

 

In fact, in smaller companies that can't justify the expense of a full HR dept. the secretaries perform the HR tasks which yep, consists mainly of just a bunch of paperwork and filing.

 

It's the blanket nature of his statement that is silly. I have worked with many talented, dedicated HR people who add a lot of value to their companies.

[Trialbyfire]

Why would small companies be brought into this scenario? We're talking about spookie's company which has HR in some full time form.

 

Do people honestly understand what HR does or even how management and corporations think? I sincerely wonder.

[CommitmentPhobe]

It's the blanket nature of his statement that is silly. I have worked with many talented, dedicated HR people who add a lot of value to their companies.

 

And those people are still lower down the food chain and ultimately more sackable than anyone that adds value to the core business of the company.

 

HR exists because of the value adding employees, not the other way around. I don't see what's so difficult to understand about that, though I must say a lot of HR people don't seem to get it.

[Lucky_One]

And those people are still lower down the food chain and ultimately more sackable than anyone that adds value to the core business of the company.

 

This is precisely what people are trying to point out. The employees who are lowest down on the food chain and are most sackable are the young ones who haven't been there long, and who admit that they are unable to work in sensitive situations without needing time-consuming and expensive transfers.

 

The job environment is not stable for nearly everyone, and the employee who goes in and says 'I need to be moved to a new dept and be re-trained and now you will have to find a replacement for me in this dept who will need to be trained because I have a crush on my supervisor" isn't an employee who impresses anyone in a hiring/firing capacity when there are thousands of people clamoring for that very position.

[CommitmentPhobe]

This is precisely what people are trying to point out. The employees who are lowest down on the food chain and are most sackable are the young ones who haven't been there long, and who admit that they are unable to work in sensitive situations without needing time-consuming and expensive transfers.

 

The job environment is not stable for nearly everyone, and the employee who goes in and says 'I need to be moved to a new dept and be re-trained and now you will have to find a replacement for me in this dept who will need to be trained because I have a crush on my supervisor" isn't an employee who impresses anyone in a hiring/firing capacity when there are thousands of people clamoring for that very position.

 

In a low value drone environment maybe.

 

If the person adds any value to the core of the company they are more likely to get nurtured than sacked.Different levels of skill are going to be able get away with different things.

 

The thing I find laughable is when an HR person comes on and gives a blanket rule for everyone being an easily expendable resource, when HR are an easliy expendible resource. You may have thousands of people clamouring for an HR post because it doesn't have much of a barrier to entry. Anyone with a specific skillset that the company needs, well if someone gets sacked for something as minor as this, the company isn't going to last long, and neither is its HR department

[Trialbyfire]

HR exists because of the value adding employees, not the other way around. I don't see what's so difficult to understand about that, though I must say a lot of HR people don't seem to get it.

HR exists to mitigate company liability and to ensure that there's a reasonably healthy corporate environment for productivity sakes, in this exact order. Keep in mind who pays HR to do the job they do.

[Alpha Female]

HR exists to mitigate company liability and to ensure that there's a reasonably healthy corporate environment for productivity sakes, in this exact order. Keep in mind who pays HR to do the job they do.

 

Well we don't exactly exist solely to be attorneys.

 

The role of HR is staffing, training, benefits/compensation (salaries, insurance, 401k, etc.), performance management (reviews, criteria for pay grades, employee issues), compliance (this is things like ethics and employee law) and safety (handling staff with substance abuse issues, providing a safe and diverse workplace, etc.).

 

Sounds like CP has been fired more than a few times. I can't understand the major grudge otherwise against someone perceived to be so beneath them.

[Trialbyfire]

Well we don't exactly exist solely to be attorneys.

 

The role of HR is staffing, training, benefits/compensation (salaries, insurance, 401k, etc.), performance management (reviews, criteria for pay grades, employee issues), compliance (this is things like ethics and employee law) and safety (handling staff with substance abuse issues, providing a safe and diverse workplace, etc.).

That's what the following covers.

to ensure that there's a reasonably healthy corporate environment for productivity sakes

[CommitmentPhobe]

Well we don't exactly exist solely to be attorneys.

 

The role of HR is staffing, training, benefits/compensation (salaries, insurance, 401k, etc.), performance management (reviews, criteria for pay grades, employee issues), compliance (this is things like ethics and employee law) and safety (handling staff with substance abuse issues, providing a safe and diverse workplace, etc.).

 

Sounds like CP has been fired more than a few times. I can't understand the major grudge otherwise against someone perceived to be so beneath them.

 

 

Me fired? LMAO that would be the day.

 

I don't have a grudge against HR, actually my lot are pretty good. I find it particuarly distasteful when an HR person (yourself) comes onto this thread, suggests spookie has made a big booboo, and then when it all appears to be working out she suggests that actually what's going on in the background is that HR are probably building a case to fire her.

 

That how you work is it? No disciplinary procedures, no attempts to resolve the situation, but some sly behind the scenes case building in attempting to sack the person. Sounds like a really efficient way to work and a great culture to work in you have going on there.

 

You must love your job eh?

[Alpha Female]

Me fired? LMAO that would be the day.

 

I don't have a grudge against HR, actually my lot are pretty good. I find it particuarly distasteful when an HR person (yourself) comes onto this thread, suggests spookie has made a big booboo, and then when it all appears to be working out she suggests that actually what's going on in the background is that HR are probably building a case to fire her.

 

That how you work is it? No disciplinary procedures, no attempts to resolve the situation, but some sly behind the scenes case building in attempting to sack the person. Sounds like a really efficient way to work and a great culture to work in you have going on there.

 

You must love your job eh?

 

Again not sure why you have so much hostility, but I do suggest you try to resolve that. I am more than sure it affects your personal and professional life more than you know.

[CommitmentPhobe]

Again not sure why you have so much hostility, but I do suggest you try to resolve that. I am more than sure it affects your personal and professional life more than you know.

 

Well you would be sure because you're obviously really incompetent at what you do.

[Alpha Female]

That's what the following covers.

 

No, you wrote that our primary responsibility is to "mitigate company liability", which is simply not true.

[Alpha Female]

Well you would be sure because you're obviously really incompetent at what you do.

 

Im not going to continue this combative exchange with you. You clearly have some major anger management and hostility issues to resolve. I do hope you consider professional help, as going through life with so much hatred has to be exhausting and impactful on every phase of your life. No need to go through life hating the world - they have medication and therapies that can help you now. Nothing wrong with admitting you have a serious problem. Be well - I hope you seek some assistance and start to feel better!

[Trialbyfire]

No, you wrote that our primary responsibility is to "mitigate company liability", which is simply not true.

 

HR exists to mitigate company liability and to ensure that there's a reasonably healthy corporate environment for productivity sakes, in this exact order. Keep in mind who pays HR to do the job they do.

Here's what I wrote, without the word "and" bolded.

[CommitmentPhobe]

Im not going to continue this combative exchange with you. You clearly have some major anger management and hostility issues to resolve. I do hope you consider professional help, as going through life with so much hatred has to be exhausting and impactful on every phase of your life. No need to go through life hating the world - they have medication and therapies that can help you now. Nothing wrong with admitting you have a serious problem. Be well - I hope you seek some assistance and start to feel better!

 

How can I have anger issues when I love my work, come home happy from it, and don't spend my days plotting to remove people from the company for minor indiscressions? How soul destroying is that?

 

Tell you what if that was my job I would definitely need to seek some medication!

[Alpha Female]

Here's what I wrote, without the word "and" bolded.

 

No, you wrote:

 

HR exists to mitigate company liability and to ensure that there's a reasonably healthy corporate environment for productivity sakes, in this exact order.

 

Making our primary responsibility, in your opinion, to "mitigate company liability" which again, is simply and entirely untrue. It is not the main reason we "exist".

[imani]

It seems Spookie is coming out fine so far. She is moving forward career-wise and she just might get her guy as well.

 

I wouldn't be bold enough to do what she did and tell my boss anything even close. I choose to keep it all professional because my career is more important, but I am glad that it is working out for her to where she may be able to have both.

 

Keep us posted, Spookie.

[Trialbyfire]

It appears that your HR department mandate is different than the departments I'm either familiar with or have personally hired/mandated, to do the job. That's okay too.

[Alpha Female]

It appears that your HR department mandate is different than the departments I'm either familiar with or have personally hired/mandated, to do the job. That's okay too.

 

And it's ok for you to admit you're wrong once in a while. No HR department exists primarily to manage liability. By your logic, we'd all be sitting around twiddling our thumbs waiting on the next sexual harassment bungle to materialize.

 

So you were hiring HR departments to minimize liability? Next time, may I suggest an attorney?

[D-Lish]

I'll tell you, I've worked in a few offices in my time- and the amount of hanky-panky that goes on between co-workers used to shock me.

 

When I was younger, I worked part time for a real estate office as a secretary on evenings and weekends.... One married Agent used to corner me at the photo copy machine and press himself against me- or sneak up behind me and grope me when no one was around. I was scared of him - and he was a high profile- big money maker ... so management just ignored his behaviour. This was back in the day before sexual harrassment became a serious issue. I ended up talking to my manager about how afraid I was and she told me to keep it quiet and say nothing to the higher ups. The office wanted to protect him.

[Trialbyfire]

And it's ok for you to admit you're wrong once in a while. No HR department exists primarily to manage liability. By your logic, we'd all be sitting around twiddling our thumbs waiting on the next sexual harassment bungle to materialize.

 

So you were hiring HR departments to minimize liability? Next time, may I suggest an attorney?

I don't understand your perspective. Every job has multiple functions, of which each function is prioritized, based on mandates from management. That's basic corporate knowledge.

 

Anyways, I'm not going to play the game of power struggle, which can dominate any corporate environment. I have full respect for HR, if they do their job as mandated by the brass. If they exceed their roles by believing they run the company, there's something wrong.

[Trialbyfire]

I'll tell you, I've worked in a few offices in my time- and the amount of hanky-panky that goes on between co-workers used to shock me.

 

When I was younger, I worked part time for a real estate office as a secretary on evenings and weekends.... One married Agent used to corner me at the photo copy machine and press himself against me- or sneak up behind me and grope me when no one was around. I was scared of him - and he was a high profile- big money maker ... so management just ignored his behaviour. This was back in the day before sexual harrassment became a serious issue. I ended up talking to my manager about how afraid I was and she told me to keep it quiet and say nothing to the higher ups. The office wanted to protect him.

Sexual harassment has become a costly concern for many employers. Your experience is one very valid reason why sexual harassment has come to the forefront.

[imani]

I'll tell you, I've worked in a few offices in my time- and the amount of hanky-panky that goes on between co-workers used to shock me.

 

When I was younger, I worked part time for a real estate office as a secretary on evenings and weekends.... One married Agent used to corner me at the photo copy machine and press himself against me- or sneak up behind me and grope me when no one was around. I was scared of him - and he was a high profile- big money maker ... so management just ignored his behaviour. This was back in the day before sexual harrassment became a serious issue. I ended up talking to my manager about how afraid I was and she told me to keep it quiet and say nothing to the higher ups. The office wanted to protect him.

 

This is a good example of why some companies lose good employees. It is also an example of why some employees are uncomfortable with office romances altogether. I think ones own personal experience with this on the job will factor in on how they feel about this topic. Which is why you'll see different views expressed passionately (no pun intended) on here. There are those who have had office relationships work out and will see no harm in what Spookie did and her outcome. On the other hand you will see people who have seen nothing but bad come from situations like Spookie's based on their experience with this situation.

 

Always best to cover your bases when dealing with work place issues. In all honesty you never will truly know how an employee or a boss will react until they don't get what they want. It is cool that Spookie's company is bending over backwards to make her comfortable, but there may also be truth in that they are covering their bases in the event of a bad fall out from a breakup if Spookie and her boss date each other in the future.

 

I've seen both sides which is why I feel it really depends on if they value you as an employee or what you bring to the company. No boss would want to lose a good employee, even if they are replacable or want to date them.