Problems with fiance

[Cherry Blossom 35]

FIrst of all, there are MANY men who would not have a problem with this. If you decide to stay in this relationship, please do not do so because you are afraid of the alternative. That is a terrible reason for staying with a man.

 

You keep saying that he is good marriage material. Are you in love with him, and he with you, or are you looking at this more from a practical perspective?

 

I think it is very possible that your fiance is jealous of your partner. Are you doing better in business than your fiance? Maybe he is jealous that the "other man" in your life is doing better professionally than he is.

[RecordProducer]

he didn't ask me to leave before we decided to marry, doesn't that mean he's at least a bit considerate about this thing?

It means he is taking one thing at a time: while you're dating, he'll pretend everything is OK. When you get engaged, he'll demand you quit your business... when you get married - well, you figure it out.

 

Just think if the situation were reverse: if you asked HIM to give up his business because his partner was female, would he? If your partner's fiancée demanded it from him, would he give up the business because of you?

 

It's a man's world, after all. Very sad. I am so disappointed. Women giving up their jobs because men don't want them to shake hands or talk to other men. In the UK. How embarrassing.

[ella23]

Ella, you do realize how hypocritical you come across as?

 

 

I said that platonic relationships can exist for some people, but the spouse/SO often gets jealous, and especially in this case, as they are always together at work everyday.

In the other thread, I think people meant that you shouldn't have opposite sex friends if your spouse doesn't like it, which as a rule is stupid.

[Tomcat33]

Ella23 so you think it's stupid that couples should have rules about friendships between opposite sex when in a copule because platonic relationships CAN exist, but a person working with someone of the opposite sex all day is dangerous?

 

You realise you are contradicting your own stance? Can platonic relationships exist between the opposite sexes or not?

 

Time spent together is almost irrelevant, some affairs develop on the internet and where people have never even met in person. Affairs happen in stolen moments of incriments of a few hours per week.

Yet we work with people of the opposite sex 24/7 for 40+ hours a week in the workforce and the majority of coworkers are not getting it on simply because they work closely together.

your reasoning doesn't pan out Ella this is what most people here are trying to tell you.

 

And the friendship rule is not a stupid rule, when we go out of our way to make new friends we typically choose people who are similar to ourselves to share leisurely time with them the danger in that while we are married or already attached to someone else is that we will confuse the roles in the excitement of getting to know someone and the lines of sexual tension will get skued due to all that leisure time spent together and sharing of each other emotionally. Having friends is like dating without the sex how could that not be dangerous when you are already attached?

 

In a business partnership one that was already created BEFORE the relationship was formed the only thing forming that business partnership is the business, they are not there for leisure they are there to get a job done. More often than not you end up bucking heads with a business partner and the romantic attraction is long gone from the equation due to the every day grind of having to run a business.

[ella23]

Ella23 so you think it's stupid that couples should have rules about friendships between opposite sex when in a copule because platonic relationships CAN exist, but a person working with someone of the opposite sex all day is dangerous?

In this particular situation, yes.

You realise you are contradicting your own stance? Can platonic relationships exist between the opposite sexes or not?

yes, but they don't work for everyone.

 

Time spent together is almost irrelevant, some affairs develop on the internet and where people have never even met in person. Affairs happen in stolen moments of increments of a few hours per week.

Yet we work with people of the opposite sex 24/7 for 40+ hours a week in the workforce and the majority of coworkers are not getting it on simply because they work closely together.

your reasoning doesn't pan out Ella this is what most people here are trying to tell you.

 

And the friendship rule is not a stupid rule, when we go out of our way to make new friends we typically choose people who are similar to ourselves to share leisurely time with them the danger in that while we are married or already attached to someone else is that we will confuse the roles in the excitement of getting to know someone and the lines of sexual tension will get skued due to all that leisure time spent together and sharing of each other emotionally. Having friends is like dating without the sex how could that not be dangerous when you are already attached?

um, no. There doesn't HAVE to be sexual tension with friends of the opposite sex that you make after marriage. Having friends isn't like dating without sex. You have a far deeper emotional connection with your SO than with any friend.

I'm not talking about actively seeking out friends, but people you meet at work or through friends. It is natural for friendships to develop. Being friends does not necessarily mean that you spend lots of time together alone.

 

In a business partnership one that was already created BEFORE the relationship was formed the only thing forming that business partnership is the business, they are not there for leisure they are there to get a job done. More often than not you end up bucking heads with a business partner and the romantic attraction is long gone from the equation due to the every day grind of having to run a business.

But she has already said that they are close friends, which is why they started the business together. Plus, they are together all days, and as said, are often working together alone (often till late in the day)and sometimes even travel together alone with each other. That is not acceptable, or wouldn't be to a lot of people.

[Tomcat33]

It's different when two people graviate towards one another in a work scenario and they become friends it means they are seeking out MORE than just a working relationship and when that happens between people who are already attached it is particularly dangerous to seek out that next level in relating to someone of the opposite sex.

 

When two people who are friends decide to form a business partnership the relationship is already there, the friendship is already there working together will not draw you closer you are already friends you already have that emotional tie and if something were to happen you would form a LIFE partnership not a business one. The OP said she has no feelings for her business partner, when a woman says no and says "you are nothing more than a friend" she means that. Women don't equate friendship to romance we can seperate the two. She is not going to go back on her word after all those years regardless of what he feels. There is less danger those two will end up together after knowing each other for 5+ years I think the OP said 8, than a pair that becomes friends after meeting at work in only a few months.

 

Very different.

[ella23]

^^ there are several people, who after working together for a long time naturally become friends. Or if you meet regularly at social events, and your spouse also becomes friends with the person. there's nothing dangerous about it.

In this case, they got together to form a partnership, and have been close friends for ages, are together so often, that too alone, and travel together. It is normal to be jealous.

[sugar_and_spice]

dnm, if I am reading your posts correctly, you are saying that your fiancee is demanding that you give up the business you worked so hard to build. Because he demands it, it will happen. Otherwise, if it were up to you (or if there were no fiancee in the picture), you would continue your business and your partnership. No effort of asserting yourself on your end, no thought to finding a compromise.

 

You also said somewhere in your posts that if your fiancee feels strongly enough about an issue, he is not going to change his mind. Again, that does not sound like a happy setup for a marriage, do you think? A husband that isn't willing to compromise?

 

 

 

There isn't any middle group. The people who don't support platonic relationships would say stuff like "She should respect him" and that "she should compromise now that they are marrying".

But I think you will resent him always if you gives up your career for him. Does he want you to have a career at all?

[Tomcat33]

In this case, they got together to form a partnership, and have been close friends for ages, are together so often, that too alone, and travel together. It is normal to be jealous.

 

 

Yes they got together to form a partnership in business why didn't they take it to the next step in the 6 yrs they have known each other? she has only been with her finace 2yrs you think 4 yrs is MORE than enough to establish a romantic connection with a man if there is potential for more? Here's the answer: because there IS no potential for more, the honeymoon stage is WAY over and there is very low chance if at all that a romance can be born outside of the honey moon stage with a man who has been a friend for this long. Where as when friends just meet there is high risk of entering the honey moon stage and crossing the provebial line of friendship to romantic interest.

 

And it's normal to be jealous of that if you are insecure with extremely low self esteem and have severe trust issues. Otherwise there is nothing to worry about. If you notice:

 

He says that he doesn't want me running a business with a male, and that it is really odd that I'm running a business with a guy and he's never heard of any male and female co-own a business. He doesn't feel comfortable with it.

 

Does the guy live in a cave? "never heard of a man woman co-ownership of a business"? He must be a caveman.

 

 

.He has always complained about it, but does it a lot more now. I told him that I have put so much hard work and money into it, and don't want to give it up. Also, he has no reason to be insecure about this, because I have never been more than friends with my business partner.

 

I have male friends I can TOTALLY relate to that. I will NEVER be more than just friends to my guy friends end of story really.

 

I can't say the same about a man I could potentially meet at work later in life whom I also find attractive and want to become friends with there I don't know if I can be JUST friends if there is an attraction there, so I would rather spare myself and my partner from the potential danger of that and steer clear of those types of friendships nor would I want to do anything that could cause grief and unecessary jealousy in my rel.

 

 

6. Are there other areas in your relationship where he tries to dictate how things will be should he marry you?

Not exactly, but he is quite possessive.

 

Bingo! typical sign of low self esteem it's not about the male business partner it is about something intrinsically wrong and broken inside dnm's fiance.

 

 

7. If you are to sell your half of the business to your partner, then what does your fiance expect you'll do in terms of work? Does he make any suggestions? What happens if you get a job elsewhere (as an employer as opposed to a co-owner/manager) and you're working with males - will he take issue with that, too?

No, he's fine with me working elsewhere, because even if I have male co-workers, I'm not necessarily going to be close friends with them.

 

Not necessarily doesn't mean you won't it means you HAD BETTER NOT or else you are up against the same thing only this time the manipulation will go a little something like this, "I won't have children with you unless you quit this job I don't like Johnny and how close you have to work with him"

 

 

8. Do you get a sense that, now because you're wearing his engagement ring, that he's trying to change you to fit him? Does he try to isolate you from friends & family? Tell you how to dress? Does he seem insecure overall? Does he express a difficulty in trusting you?

Like I said, he's very possessive.

And I think he gets intimidated with the fact that I earn around the same amount as him

 

 

The guy has low self esteem, has control issues that are not going to go away at ALL. Every time a type like this has his ego hurt, and his ego could get hurt by the most innocuous thing, he will lash out in demands and black mail as he is doing now, "you quit your business or I won't marry you"

 

This is NOT normal jealousy these are deep seated issues this man has that won't stop at this business decision.

[ella23]

Yes they got together to form a partnership in business why didn't they take it to the next step in the 6 yrs they have known each other? she has only been with her finace 2yrs you think 4 yrs is MORE than enough to establish a romantic connection with a man if there is potential for more? Here's the answer: because there IS no potential for more, the honeymoon stage is WAY over and there is very low chance if at all that a romance can be born outside of the honey moon stage with a man who has been a friend for this long. Where as when friends just meet there is high risk of entering the honey moon stage and crossing the provebial line of friendship to romantic interest.

 

And it's normal to be jealous of that if you are insecure with extremely low self esteem and have severe trust issues. Otherwise there is nothing to worry about. If you notice:

 

 

The time period has nothing to do with it. When you work long hours together and are already close friends and even travel together often, things can happen. She probably spends more time with the business partner than the SO.

 

Does the guy live in a cave? "never heard of a man woman co-ownership of a business"? He must be a caveman.

It is probably very rare.

 

 

 

 

Not necessarily doesn't mean you won't it means you HAD BETTER NOT or else you are up against the same thing only this time the manipulation will go a little something like this, "I won't have children with you unless you quit this job I don't like Johnny and how close you have to work with him"

An ultimatum like this one is certainly weird, but she did say her fiance is not controlling, and is otherwise very caring and loving.

 

 

 

 

I can't say the same about a man I could potentially meet at work later in life whom I also find attractive and want to become friends with there I don't know if I can be JUST friends if there is an attraction there, so I would rather spare myself and my partner from the potential danger of that and steer clear of those types of friendships nor would I want to do anything that could cause grief and unecessary jealousy in my rel.

 

 

Well, if someone feels attracted to another person, then you just distance yourself. Just because you feel attracted doesn't mean you act on it.

Would you say the same thing if the partnership had not been this long?As in, would you take her side if the business had been like 1 year old, and she'd been with the SO for 6 months?

Would you tell her she should leave this business in that case?

[sally4sara]

Yeah,we would marry. There are no other major issues.

no, we haven't considered pre-marital counselling.

And he really isn't the kind of guy who would change his view on something he feels strongly about.

 

What an excellent quality to have in a partner!

[sally4sara]

We're both British.

 

See the thing is that he doesn't believe that platonic relationships can exist, especially close ones. In any case, not everyone finds it acceptable for their SO to have friends of the opposite sex, He doesn't have a problem with my business. But he finds it odd that a woman would co-own a business with a male.

And no, I never dated my business partner, but we are good friends.

 

 

Look, when it comes down to the nitty gritty, even I doubt the absolute sincerity of platonic friendships. I'm female and we are constantly being told it is against a man's biology to be faithful as an excuse for their behavior.

 

That being said, I would never ask my fiancee to give up something they worked so hard for unless something in their actions during our relationship caused me to believe they had no self control and would lie to me. At which point - I wouldn't marry them anyway - giving up the business or not.

 

You've done nothing (you claim to have not cheated) and further more nothing with your business partner either currently or in the past before meeting your fiance to lead him to believe you are capable of what he fears.

Why are you even considering giving in to this?

[sugar_and_spice]

Look, when it comes down to the nitty gritty, even I doubt the absolute sincerity of platonic friendships. I'm female and we are constantly being told it is against a man's biology to be faithful as an excuse for their behavior.

Men who make that excuse are not worth it(cliched but true). I think there are enough male-female relationships out there to prove that some men can control themselves:D.

 

 

You've done nothing (you claim to have not cheated) and further more nothing with your business partner either currently or in the past before meeting your fiance to lead him to believe you are capable of what he fears.

Why are you even considering giving in to this?

Exactly! I think the explanation is that love makes people blind:D

[CBR_pilot]

If he already knew about this, and you haven't given him any reasons to not trust you, this should be a non-issue. Unless your business is being a porn star (and even then, you said that he knew about it prior to the engagement), there's really no reason for you to have to change things.

 

Now on the other hand, if he's willing and able to let you be a "stay at home" Mom or wife, then maybe you should consider it...

[sugar_and_spice]

If he already knew about this, and you haven't given him any reasons to not trust you, this should be a non-issue. Unless your business is being a porn star (and even then, you said that he knew about it prior to the engagement), there's really no reason for you to have to change things.

 

Now on the other hand, if he's willing and able to let you be a "stay at home" Mom or wife, then maybe you should consider it...

you do realise that not every woman wants to sit at home if her husband is "able and wiling" to let it happen:rolleyes:

Hardly surprising considering you're male though.

[nicki]

He willingly entered into a relationship with you knowing your situation. Were concerns brought up then?

 

Unless something has changed and you have flirted with this guy or have developed an attraction, then I see no need to change your current business situation. Instead, he needs to deal with his insecurity issues.

 

And you need to be completely transparent in your dealings with your business partner, so your finance doesn't have anything to worry about. That means boundaries, too. No hanging out in each other's hotel rooms on business trips. (not saying you do, just an example.)

 

Can you talk to your fiance about your boundaries? Does he know that you don't let your business life cross over into your personal life? Does he know that he is more important to you than your business partner?

 

A business partner can be like a spouse. Make sure you keep it professional. If you do develop an attraction, get out of the arrangement.

 

If your fiance can't deal with your professional business life because he is controlling instead of simply insecure, then you've got another problem on your hands.

[Walk]

You will find that most men would have problems if their SO's were so close to someone of the opposite sex. Most guys wouldn't live with this.

 

Not most men... YOU would have a problem with it. I've known dozens of men who don't have an issue with it. It's YOUR opinion, but it's not the majority opinion.

 

IF her behavior was inappropriate with her partner, and causing issues, a man with some self-confidence wouldn't lock her down and force her to give up her business. He'd end the relationship and find someone more compatible. A confident man could understand that she's had the business far longer then she's been with him, and he would've either A.) found a solution prior to this point, or B.) ended the relationship when he realized it wasn't what he wanted.

 

Instead, he rides along giving her the sense that although he's not happy with the situation, that he'll tolerate it. Then when he figures he's got her secured, he tells her to give up what she's put her life into for the past 6 years. If he'd had some confidence, wasn't an insecure little boy about the whole thing, he would've acknowledge to her much earlier in the relationship that he wasn't looking for a woman who owns her own business. He could've found someone more compatible with his beliefs and given her the opportunity to find someone who could encourage and morally support her. Instead, he waits til she's hooked, and then dangles something she really wants in front of her while issuing conditions on acceptance. How chicken shyt is that? He knows it's something she really wanted because she loves him and wants to be with him... but he uses it against her to get what he wants. All because he's a scared and thinks he's not good enough for her. (Which is why he believes she'll cheat on him if he doesn't get rid of her partner) He doesn't trust her, he doesn't believe in himself, and he he's an azz for encapsulating a proposal within an ultimatum. He should've had the balls to leave when he first realized her life was an issue for him.

[norajane]

Not most men... YOU would have a problem with it. I've known dozens of men who don't have an issue with it. It's YOUR opinion, but it's not the majority opinion.

 

IF her behavior was inappropriate with her partner, and causing issues, a man with some self-confidence wouldn't lock her down and force her to give up her business. He'd end the relationship and find someone more compatible. A confident man could understand that she's had the business far longer then she's been with him, and he would've either A.) found a solution prior to this point, or B.) ended the relationship when he realized it wasn't what he wanted.

 

Instead, he rides along giving her the sense that although he's not happy with the situation, that he'll tolerate it. Then when he figures he's got her secured, he tells her to give up what she's put her life into for the past 6 years. If he'd had some confidence, wasn't an insecure little boy about the whole thing, he would've acknowledge to her much earlier in the relationship that he wasn't looking for a woman who owns her own business. He could've found someone more compatible with his beliefs and given her the opportunity to find someone who could encourage and morally support her. Instead, he waits til she's hooked, and then dangles something she really wants in front of her while issuing conditions on acceptance. How chicken shyt is that? He knows it's something she really wanted because she loves him and wants to be with him... but he uses it against her to get what he wants. All because he's a scared and thinks he's not good enough for her. (Which is why he believes she'll cheat on him if he doesn't get rid of her partner) He doesn't trust her, he doesn't believe in himself, and he he's an azz for encapsulating a proposal within an ultimatum. He should've had the balls to leave when he first realized her life was an issue for him.

 

Totally agree!

 

And, I'll add, by the way, that IF she actually WANTED to cheat on her fiancee, just because she gives up her business and is no longer partners with this guy, THAT WOULD NOT PREVENT HER FROM CHEATING. Either she would cheat with this guy regardless of their business relationship, or with some other guy. Destroying her business is no guarantee of fidelity.

 

He either trusts her or he doesn't. And it's clear that he doesn't.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

Walk- True, true, and TRUE! OP, also be sure to pay attention to Tomcat and Record Producer. They all have something to say that is worth listening to.

 

I was thinking about this today...because work was boring, haha....and I was thinking about the old bait and switch. If you didn't know, this is an advertising technique that is considered unethical, if not illegal. The store puts an advertisement for a brand new TV in the newspaper. You go to the store, and lo and behold, there is no tv there. The salespeople will say they sold out, but conveniently, they will have another tv for sale that is just a little bit more expensive. In truth, they never had the tv that was in the ad.

 

This guys sounds a little bit like that. He posed as one guy, the guy who had no problem with you and your business. Then he reeeeeeled you in......and once you walked into that store, and you were ready to buy that tv, he said.....acutally, that tv doesn't exist. But this other one does. The catch? The new tv comes with conditions. You have to give up your business to have this tv.

 

The old bait and switch. One of the oldest tricks in the books.

[james123]

Not most men... YOU would have a problem with it. I've known dozens of men who don't have an issue with it. It's YOUR opinion, but it's not the majority opinion.

and I know several people who won't.

I'm pretty sure it's the majority opinion. Most guys are probably not posting because they'll have to get into unnecessary arguments if they state the truth.

Also, having a problem with your SO's very close opposite sex "friends" hardly makes you a control freak.

[Walk]

and I know several people who won't.

I'm pretty sure it's the majority opinion. Most guys are probably not posting because they'll have to get into unnecessary arguments if they state the truth.

Also, having a problem with your SO's very close opposite sex "friends" hardly makes you a control freak.

 

Oh.. so these numerous men you're describing, who are abundent, have all conspired to not post their opinions. Instead these millions of men have all appointed you as their spokesman.

 

Sure... I believe you.

 

I'm not saying that men couldn't have an issue with an opposite sex friend, it's how they deal with it that shows their true colors. Are you saying you would date a woman for several years while knowing in the back of your head that her lifestyle was not what you wanted in your life? Would you seriously ask your SO to give up something that was integral to her life, that she's built, shaped, and fought for, for the past 6 years? While you give nothing in return? Would you do that to the person you claim to love?

[carhill]

Come on, there's like 10 guys who regularly post here. Not exactly a representative sample.

 

I'm already on the record as not having any issues with the OP's issue, nor my wife's (essentially in the same situation). Life's too short and my time is too valuable

[Tomcat33]

The time period has nothing to do with it. When you work long hours together and are already close friends and even travel together often, things can happen. She probably spends more time with the business partner than the SO.

 

Yes I see what you are saying and that would be alarming, but that's speculation I didn't read anywhere in this thread that the OP spends more time with her BP than her fiance.

If there is trust, which clearly this man does not have for her, then he should trust that this other man is just a business partner / long time friend. The fact alone that she travels for work is reason enough for someone like her fiance to wonder "is she getting it on when she is out my of sight?" I still don't see why business partner that is male = bed buddy while out of sight. Out of sight out mind, he must be thinking she is always going to screw on him while travelling.

 

Every single guy I ended up in a long term rel. with the exception of my finace that cheated on me had to travel for work quite a bit if I had stopped to think "he must be getting it on while away" I would have been a nervous wreck. You can't go through life like that. You have to take control of your emotions/insecurties and when there is a solid ground for them to manifest then fine go to town, but otherwise you simply have to trust.

Trust is a choice and it has no barings on your past unless you let your past affect you to the extend that it will paralize you in fears.

 

, but she did say her fiance is not controlling, and is otherwise very caring and loving.

 

Are we reading the same thread? She actually said he is very possesive.

 

 

 

Well, if someone feels attracted to another person, then you just distance yourself. Just because you feel attracted doesn't mean you act on it.

 

If you truly believe that then there is your answer to your contradictory thinking, if she ever feels atracted to him she will distance herself and problem solved. Right?

 

 

Would you say the same thing if the partnership had not been this long?As in, would you take her side if the business had been like 1 year old, and she'd been with the SO for 6 months?

Would you tell her she should leave this business in that case?

 

I would have the exact same stance because the key is when you met her she was already a partner to this other guy in a business they had together. Just as I have no problem with my guy having female friends which he brings into the rel. now if he went off to befriend the new chick at the office that gets more murky for me, I am only human and of course that would give me reason to think. Possibly because I had my fiance cheat on me with someone he met and became friends with at work. It started off with him talking about how cool she was all the time, then it lead to their lunches together etc and it culminated in his neck filled with hickies because his coworker "friend" and him went off partying after work and conveniently ended up in bed together.

 

So perhaps it has skewed my idea of frienships that happen after the fact. They worked together at the hospital and had the same shifts, a lot of long grulling shifts.

But that hasn't stopped me from throwing myself right into each rel that came after that and giving it my all in terms of trust, you simply have to let the past go and work on the present if you want to succeed.

 

Marriage does not equal "I hate that you do that for a living now change your career for me" If I started dating an actor (which I would NEVER do I have worked too closely to them to know what they are about and though not everyone is the same I have my mind made up about the whole film industry etc. having worked very closely to it) I have no right expecting my actor guy to give up acting because it doesn't sit well with me. I would just not date a man who is an actor because I would not want a life with someone who does that for a living. So why waste my time dating an actor to say I dated an actor? Woopdy doo. Just as I would not date a stripper, or a cop, a musician or a man who is stationed abroad for half the year. Seems pretty easy to me to work on that principal rather than working it backwards and getting someone to change what they do to accomodate me. I either accept him for what he is or I don't. So I'd rather not go there. I know THAT much about myself.

 

But I think it boils down to what is perceived as psychologically ok with each of us. In the case of the fiance perhaps he should seriously think about WHY he chose to be with a woman that has made a life out of building a business with another man, he should seriously consider why if he had such a big hang up about that he would proceed to get heavily involved with her.

[norajane]

Come on, there's like 10 guys who regularly post here. Not exactly a representative sample.

 

I'm already on the record as not having any issues with the OP's issue, nor my wife's (essentially in the same situation). Life's too short and my time is too valuable

 

Oh, no - apparently, there are tons of guys who post here. But they're all busy posting in the retroactive jealousy threads, and not the "give up your business due to irrational jealousy" threads.

[carhill]

And the masturbation visual stimulation thread....I couldn't help it...had to go blow my wad over there

 

On that note, OP, how's the relationship humor quotient? I find sometimes it's the "how" feelings are communicated as much as the "what". The relaxed and ebullient mind is often an acquiescing mind