XMM's Attorney Visit

[2sure]

Yep, you got it. Its all about him, everything. Every relationship with everyone - including his parents and children, and you.

 

I have no doubt that he loves, craves, needs the attention you give him. He may even translate this into being in love with you.

 

But now you have realized it is all about him. And you find it unattractive because it is.

Somehow, when a man is a Drama Queen - its even more unattractive.

[NoIDidn't]

...when a man is a Drama Queen - its even more unattractive.

 

ITA with this. A male drama queen is the biggest of red flags available.

[Spinning Head]

There is always an excuse. I went to a New Year's Eve party at a friend's house and received non-stop texts from MM. I worked most of the weekend and received non-stop texts from MM which I pretty much ignored. On Sunday night, I get a call from MM wherein he tells me how hurt and angry he is that I did not respond to his texts over the weekend. It was very unusual to receive a call on a Sunday night since the R is restricted to Monday-Friday day time work hours.

 

On Monday, I received another call from MM (during the day) wherein he talks about how our R has shifted. MM commented that I don't seem to be as interested in seeing him anymore. MM stated that he has become more and more consumed by me. That he is depressed and is unhappy.

 

My response: You created this situation. You have two choices: end it with me or end your marriage.

 

MM has stepped up with the phone calls and text messages. I asked MM the reason (now) that he remains in his marriage. MM states that his W told him that they need him - his 55 y.o. wife and 25 and 21 y.o. sons need him. I know they need him financially. MM claims the holiday was not good in that no one spoke to anyone and there was much tension in the air.

 

MM wants to plan a trip in February with me for his birthday and Valentine's Day to which I responded I am not going anywhere with him until he separates.

 

MM told me yesterday that his 25 y.o. son is moving back into the house with him and his W. I commented that if he wanted to leave his marriage, now is a good time for MM to move out with his son moving back into the house. Actually, that son practically lives there anyway - son has an apartment about an hour away and is in class two nights a week. Son stays in that apartment two nights a week and is at home with MM and his wife the rest of the week.

 

I agree with MM that there has been a shift in my attitude towards him. I no longer make time for him. I don't always answer his calls or respond to his texts - which has resulted in him contacting me even more. I stopped asking him to leave his marriage. I do love him (even though he is an a**hole) and a part of me always will.

[NoIDidn't]

I'm surprised that you are still even considering any kind of relationship with him given what you realized about him and the situation.

 

Baffled, really. Your *R* with him was limited to Monday - Friday. That isn't strange to you? I understand respecting the limitations of the R/A but to expect someone to end their marriage for that is confusing.

 

As a MP, why would I give up my everyday relationship for what is so blatantly part time for me?

 

I think your protestations are falling on deaf ears. He is doing and saying whatever he can to reel you back in. You are punishing him with NC and getting the desired results, but only to a degree. The degree being that he isn't leaving, it seems.

 

His being consumed with you is normal. Definitely check out some books on affairs for that tidbit. Being with and around you spikes his adrenaline. He needs his fix. Crack addicts are consumed with crack until they get their next fix. You and the A are an addiction to him. It will be very hard for him to get over the addiction until he realizes what it is. Same thing for you.

 

You guys might not love each other at all. You might just love the feelings you get when you are with each other temporarily. You've shown here that once the high wears off, you see him for what he is - an a##hole.

 

I hope you decide to make this break permanent. This relationship is not healthy for you.

[jj33]

Spinning its intersting that you are giving him the choice. You see that he is not ending the marriage so I think perhaps what you want to say to him is ITS OVER.

 

I.e. there is a reason that your attitude has changed. You are no longer interested in being the OW. You no longer make time to be the OW.

 

If he wants to be with you, he needs to leave his wife and be free so that he can have a proper relationship with you.

 

From my own experience they just keep coming back and coming back and coming back... but you know what it doesnt matter if you are clear about your boundaries.

 

Yes it is draining and its hurtful but so long as you are clear about what you will and will not accept, then nothing he can say will make a difference unless and until he leaves.

 

It is terribly painful but its worth it to keep your stance.

[2sure]

Its no surprise and clear you see it yourself, but I have to comment because I cant believe how transparent his drama - selfishness is.

 

Normally you can only speak/see each other M-F during work hours. Understandable since he is otherwise occupied. However, if you have a date or special plans, or are even working unscheduled hours - HE RAMPS UP THE COMMUNICATION. If it isnt all about him, he tries like hell to insinuate himself into it any way he can - even by incessant texting while you are busy. QUEEN.

[Spinning Head]

I wonder if what keeps MM in the A is the attention factor. MM's W goes with him everywhere now. Maybe, subconsciously, that is what he wanted all along. MM worked Saturday at his office and his W stayed at his office for six hours. The weekend before, the same thing happened. According to MM, whenever he leaves the house to run errands, W joins him. W is at his side often and, when W is not there, she calls him constantly.

 

MM rented an apartment last week. That does not mean anything to me. MM rented an apartment several months ago then broke the lease. He never moved into the apartment.

 

MM's reason that he has not moved out is that he is afraid of being alone. He complains about his W being around him all the time and how that will drive him away, then, he comments that he is afraid to be alone.

 

In my opinion, there is a shift in our R. I read the comments about the addictive aspect of it. Yesterday, MM texted me several times during the day, which I ignored (MM's W was with MM at his office). After MM's W left the office, MM began calling. MM called my cell number 8 times in one hour. MM called my office and left a message. MM never had my home number but he found it and called my house. And, throughout all of this, there were several texts sent by MM. I ignored them all until about 10:00 PM when I called MM. MM answered his phone - he was at home. Even though he was at home, he talked to me for about 10 minutes. After the conversation ended, MM called me back and spoke for about 5 more minutes.

 

I don't get it. Maybe it is a combination of addiction and attention on MM's part.

[jj33]

Spinning. You sound like you are doing really well. It is a delicate and challenging dynamic.

 

Someone explained it to me this way. She said that there are certain men who are manipulative and they test (consciously or subconsciously) teh people that they target to see if they can manipulate them. Looking back I can recall certain seemngly benign occurences where MM acted in a way that surprised me so I reacted in a way I would not normally have reacted (going along with it is the best way to put it) because it wouldnt have occured to me that anyone would do those little silly things intentionally or with malintent.

 

Now looking back I can see that by going along with seemingly innocent transgresions, he was setting a stage for me to accept certain behaviors that I wouldnt normally accept. And it was interspersed with such warm and loving actions that I tended to disregard them as blips. But in fact they arent blips. And in the end it is emotionally abusive.

 

What this person showed me and I think the same thing is applicable to you to some extent at this point, that as much as I wasnt interested in returning to the A dynamic I never told him that I didnt love him anymore. As she put it, I asked for permission to end the relationship, thereby continuing the dynamic where he held all the power in the relationship.

 

That helped me to see why he would think he could keep coming back on a personal level. Your situation is somewhat different as he is dancing around leaving and putting the relationship in a position where it could exist out in the open.

 

Nonetheless that dynamic may be playing out as between you and this man. I cant explain it well in the public forum but if you PM me I will explain more.

 

Its very difficult and I hope you are able to find peace with it all.

[LavendarGirl]

Takes "Separation Anxiety" to a whole new level.

 

He is afraid of living by himself? This from a man who is not all alone in the world (he has grown kids, you, the W), but yet afraid to live by himself. Hmm. That sounds like a convenient excuse.

 

Also, what's with the W having to hold his hand while he goes to the office? Do you think it's true (she was with him), or do you think it's something he made up? I can't imagine a W tagging along like that.

[jj33]

I dont know Lav, after MM and I stopped seeing each other, W was on him like white on rice. Sometimes a spouse doesnt want someone but doesnt want them to leave either - its a pride thing.

 

Although I have been reevaluating my opinion of W. Everyone says she is a total b**ch. But she has been married to MM for decades and things went wrong about 30 years ago. If you are unhappily married for 30 years and dont believe you can/should divorce maybe you BECOME a total misery because you have been living with an emotinally manipulative man. You may act in ways you would not otherwise act. And the two of you (the W and the H) get locked in an unhealthy and destructive dynamic which could include coming to the office with him under slim pretenses.

[LavendarGirl]

I dont know Lav, after MM and I stopped seeing each other, W was on him like white on rice. Sometimes a spouse doesnt want someone but doesnt want them to leave either - its a pride thing.

 

Yeah, jj, you're probably right. I have a friend who was OW with a MM once upon a time. The BS was also in her own A, but when the W found out about her H having an A, the wife was suddenly following him around all day long, and would meet him at the office for lunch and to drive him home at night. Funny how when the shoe was on the other foot, the W got territorial. Then again, her being in an A herself, she might've learned how to effectively sneak around!

[Spinning Head]

I don't think I am doing very well!!! My tolerance level for everything has been exceeded. Once again, MM began texting and calling me today. I told MM that the R was wearing me out. I am tired of MM complaining about his W and sons. It is the same complaints over and over and over. I offer suggestions but MM does nothing. A week later, MM complains about the same things.

 

Today, MM stated that he told his W and sons (ages 25 and 21) that the economy was affecting his business and they need to watch expenses (interesting since he rented an apartment last week). MM left to go to work and his W got dressed to go with him. Earlier this week, MM called me on the way to a meeting and I told him I was in a foul mood for several reasons. MM went on and on about his eldest son. It got to the point that I told him I did not give a f*#k about it and hung up.

 

I am so tired of it all.

[jj33]

Yes but that means you are doing well you are getting past the point of putting up with his BS.

 

The next step will be you are married stop wasting my time. Stop calling me. Bye bye.

 

Its all part of a process

[NoIDidn't]

Yes but that means you are doing well you are getting past the point of putting up with his BS.

 

The next step will be you are married stop wasting my time. Stop calling me. Bye bye.

 

Its all part of a process

 

Yeah, I agree. Even reading what you are writing has me wondering why he isn't talking to his W about their kids?

 

You will get to the point where you say "I don't want to hear about this. I am not your W. Leave me alone."

 

I won't deny that I hope it is sooner than later, though. He sounds like such a waste of time.

[Spinning Head]

Is this a relationship/affair or merely a head game to MM? I have been involved with MM for 14 months. Seven months ago, MM retained an attorney, got an apartment, then MM got cold feet and we parted ways. Our R resumed about six weeks later. MM has met with another attorney, rented another apartment, still has not moved out.

 

I am told today by MM that he does not like being in second place. My response was "WTF?". I told MM that he is the one who has placed boundaries on the R because he remains with his wife. MM is the one who limits the R to M-F from 8:30 AM to 5:00 PM. I have asked him to do things with me on the weekends - to see how he would respond - and there is always an excuse as to why he cannot join me.

 

I spoke to a friend today about this A. How I feel as if I am unraveling in all areas of my life. He commented that I am beating myself up and pounding my own self-esteem into the ground. I cannot believe the situation in which I find myself with this A. Nor the person I have become because of it. I excel at what I do professionally. I am an absolute failure when it comes to personal relationships - i.e. my marriage and the affair.

[NoIDidn't]

Maybe its just me, but I don't consider it a relationship when it has time constraints placed on it. I know of marriages where the spouses work odd hours and don't see each other regularly, but they are always available to the other by phone or whatever.

 

Each time you complain about the time constraints, I don't get why you continue to pursue anything with him.

 

Re beating yourself up. I think I am going to answer my own question a little with this. You are beating yourself up. And I think that is why you continue to pursue this dead end relationship with him. Its almost like if you can get him to remove the time constraints you won't feel so rejected or like a failure. But those are the limits of the affair, Spin. And if you aren't able to work with those limits, you should consider getting out as you will never be happy with those limits.

 

You are beating yourself up over something that is out of your control and yet in your control. You don't have to put up with this, as in, you can get out of the affair and walk away. Don't make convincing him to change the time restraints your personal measure for success or failure. Affairs aren't meant to be like that.

[whichwayisup]

From what you've said and the way he is with you - I hate to say it but it's time for you to take a giant step back and really see things in a new light. He isn't leaving her. His actions show you this and his words DO NOT meet his actions.

 

He is in affair mode and that's it. If you want to be the OW in his life for a long long LONG time, then stay with him. You want more but he isn't willing to give you anymore than he has to. Or wants to. Sorry but it doesn't seem like he's going to move out and divorce, even if he is telling you he "will".

[jj33]

Spinning it was suggested to me that MMs do these things after the A is over:

 

1. To try to manipulate the OW into continuing things on their terms

 

2. To continue to exert their control over the OW and to comfort themselves with the feeling that they still can.

 

3. To punish us for not continuing the A on their terms.

 

4. And generally to provoke a reaction from the OW.

 

This was suggested to me by a MM who sees As in terms of control and was amused that I didnt get that it was all about control. He said its like you took away his toys so he is now going back and throwing anything he can find out of the sandbox (as he no longer has toys to throw).

 

He said the way to get control back is to simply draw a line in the sand in your head as of NOW (not in a week or a month) and say I am not going to react.

 

I never saw it in terms of control. But I trust that he is correct and if I understood all the control issues the whole mess would have been easier to understand.

[Spinning Head]

The stress of the relationship with MM is adversely affecting me. For the past week, I have woken up every day with horrible headaches that last all day. I can't stay focused on work. I am short-tempered and snappy towards everyone. I am physically drained and tired all the time.

 

I have an appointment to see my counselor next week. I need to figure out how to restore my self-esteem.

 

I am tired of hearing from MM about all of his problems with his sons and his W. I am tired of MM's comments of how his sons don't speak to him, how his W follows him everywhere, etc. The texting continues through the weekend. Yesterday was a text that MM was sewing a button on his coat and he asked if we were together, would I sew on the button? I did not respond. Later, there is a telephone call from MM as he is off to the hardware store to buy parts to fix a toilet. As MM rambles on about his day, I tell him that he really is a coward. I reiterate that he is a coward. I said it 3-4 times. MM is quite then continues on with the conversation. Later, I get a text that he fixed the toilet and how I won't need to hire a plumber when we are together since he is a great handyman.

 

MM's failure to separate and his willingness to drag things on is resulting in me seeing more of who he really is. MM is a coward.

[bentnotbroken]

Apparently she doesn't follow him everywhere if he finds time to text you about all his issues. It sounds like he is a prick with delusions of grandeur about important he is to his family.

[soserious1]

The stress of the relationship with MM is adversely affecting me. For the past week, I have woken up every day with horrible headaches that last all day. I can't stay focused on work. I am short-tempered and snappy towards everyone. I am physically drained and tired all the time.

 

I have an appointment to see my counselor next week. I need to figure out how to restore my self-esteem.

 

I am tired of hearing from MM about all of his problems with his sons and his W. I am tired of MM's comments of how his sons don't speak to him, how his W follows him everywhere, etc. The texting continues through the weekend. Yesterday was a text that MM was sewing a button on his coat and he asked if we were together, would I sew on the button? I did not respond. Later, there is a telephone call from MM as he is off to the hardware store to buy parts to fix a toilet. As MM rambles on about his day, I tell him that he really is a coward. I reiterate that he is a coward. I said it 3-4 times. MM is quite then continues on with the conversation. Later, I get a text that he fixed the toilet and how I won't need to hire a plumber when we are together since he is a great handyman.

 

MM's failure to separate and his willingness to drag things on is resulting in me seeing more of who he really is. MM is a coward.

 

 

People in happy marriages that span decades don't bother each other with inane,BS text messages,particularly during the work day.

 

I'd tell this guy that if he wants to talk about the small events of his day that the place to do so is at the dinner table,in the place he shares with you

when he is a free man. I'd also block his text messages, they're inane,pathetic attempts to engage and distract you.

[frannie]

The stress of the relationship with MM is adversely affecting me. For the past week, I have woken up every day with horrible headaches that last all day. I can't stay focused on work. I am short-tempered and snappy towards everyone. I am physically drained and tired all the time.

 

I have an appointment to see my counselor next week. I need to figure out how to restore my self-esteem.

 

I am tired of hearing from MM about all of his problems with his sons and his W. I am tired of MM's comments of how his sons don't speak to him, how his W follows him everywhere, etc. The texting continues through the weekend. Yesterday was a text that MM was sewing a button on his coat and he asked if we were together, would I sew on the button? I did not respond. Later, there is a telephone call from MM as he is off to the hardware store to buy parts to fix a toilet. As MM rambles on about his day, I tell him that he really is a coward. I reiterate that he is a coward. I said it 3-4 times. MM is quite then continues on with the conversation. Later, I get a text that he fixed the toilet and how I won't need to hire a plumber when we are together since he is a great handyman.

 

MM's failure to separate and his willingness to drag things on is resulting in me seeing more of who he really is. MM is a coward.

 

Have you told him you don't want to hear about his day, about his toilets or his buttons? Have you told him only to contact you if he has significant updates about leaving, rather than wanting to daydream about the future?

 

If so, then whenever he calls or texts in this way, you can ignore it. End of problem . Continuing to engage him, even if you're telling him he's a coward, is only giving him the oxygen of contact. This is counter-productive. He doesn't care what you call him as long as you let him talk to you. So, don't

[hopereys]

Is this a relationship/affair or merely a head game to MM? I have been involved with MM for 14 months. Seven months ago, MM retained an attorney, got an apartment, then MM got cold feet and we parted ways. Our R resumed about six weeks later. MM has met with another attorney, rented another apartment, still has not moved out.

 

I am told today by MM that he does not like being in second place. My response was "WTF?". I told MM that he is the one who has placed boundaries on the R because he remains with his wife. MM is the one who limits the R to M-F from 8:30 AM to 5:00 PM. I have asked him to do things with me on the weekends - to see how he would respond - and there is always an excuse as to why he cannot join me.

 

I spoke to a friend today about this A. How I feel as if I am unraveling in all areas of my life. He commented that I am beating myself up and pounding my own self-esteem into the ground. I cannot believe the situation in which I find myself with this A. Nor the person I have become because of it. I excel at what I do professionally. I am an absolute failure when it comes to personal relationships - i.e. my marriage and the affair.

He's married it's that simple. He belongs to someone else made a promise to someone else. I'm sure he continues to love and make promises to that someone else. You signed up for this pain by messing with a married man.