XMM's Attorney Visit

[wildsoul]

So hes meeting the attorney on Christmas Eve and you are giving him 2 days to leave? I think you are setting yourself up for failure there. Who knows what the attorney will say - I mean does someone really leave 2 days later?

 

Youve already given him a billion deadlines none of which he has met. You may be a lot better off just stepping away until he HAS actually left. Hes a big boy if he wants to do it he can. It may not be over the holidays it may be January 15th. But you shouldnt be hanging in the balance.

 

I hope it works out for you.

Agreed. There's not a chance in the world of him leaving between xmas and new years. And yes, stepping away until AFTER he's left seems so much better than setting up another meaningless deadline for him, or believing him when he gives you one.

 

Why are you calling him XMM?

[Spinning Head]

The attorney's appointment is this week - not next week.

 

I realize the deadline is the day after Christmas; but, I need to move forward in 2009. MM is the one who so clearly stated that he could leave any time that he wants - and, that is very true.

 

The deadline will give me time to lick my wounds in private for a few days.

 

I did ask MM why he has not left at this point - the real reason. MM claims he feels guilty about leaving his W. I don't understand that alleged reason - he feels guilty about leaving his W but not guilty about having an A? Or, lying to his W? I think it is merely another excuse. MM asked me if I wanted him to call his W right now and tell her that he was leaving and I answered 'yes'. Big silence afterwards. Then, another excuse and an attempt to make me feel guilty.

[whichwayisup]

MM claims he feels guilty about leaving his W.

 

So he's going to feel less guilty by Dec 26th? And what about New Years Eve? Or Valentine's Day..It will always be something, another reason why he can't leave, timing isn't right, blah blah blah.

 

You are setting yourself up for a huge fall. End it NOW and walk away. IF he truly does love you enough, he will divorce and call you when the D is final. Until then, him telling you about the lawyer's visit, non-visit, cancellation etc, is pure manipulative moves on his behalf to keep you interested and waiting..

 

This will go on for as long as you let it.

 

Have you reached your ENOUGH is ENOUGH stage yet? I hope so, because you're wasting your love and energy on a piece of crap who isn't worth fighting for.

[jj33]

Everyone handles things differently and has a different way of giving themselves closure but you are asking for failure here

 

A man who feels guilty is NEVER going to leave the day after Christmas. NEVER.

 

So if you need the holidays to have some time in private to put this behind you thats fine and makes sense but to say to him you now have one week post appointment to leave... that may not even make sense based on whatever advice he gets from the attorney.

 

Sometimes people are advised not to abandon the marital home etc etc and to stay until a property settlement is reached or whatever. Circumstances vary.

 

I understand you are sick and tired of the excuses but bottom line, its his time table. You can walk away if thats not working for you, but giving him articificial deadlines doesnt seem like a winning strategy if what you want is for him to meet the deadline.

 

Theres an old saying that you vote with your feet. Very true in cases like these. When we stay hoping against hope that the other person will accede to our agenda in most cases we are disappointed. If they we were both dancing to the same tune these struggles wouldnt arise in the first place.

 

That being said I hope it works out for you

[frannie]

The attorney's appointment is this week - not next week.

 

I realize the deadline is the day after Christmas; but, I need to move forward in 2009. MM is the one who so clearly stated that he could leave any time that he wants - and, that is very true.

 

The deadline will give me time to lick my wounds in private for a few days.

 

I did ask MM why he has not left at this point - the real reason. MM claims he feels guilty about leaving his W. I don't understand that alleged reason - he feels guilty about leaving his W but not guilty about having an A? Or, lying to his W? I think it is merely another excuse. MM asked me if I wanted him to call his W right now and tell her that he was leaving and I answered 'yes'. Big silence afterwards. Then, another excuse and an attempt to make me feel guilty.

 

He's saying contradictory things here. I think that rather than issuing deadlines which don't mean a thing, you would be better off trying to get him to talk about his reasons for not leaving. That guilt one is a biggie. IF he really is feeling guilty about this, he's going to have to work through it, or even if he does leave the house on the whim of a moment, he's going to end up going back anyway.

 

So why not calm down a bit and get him to talk about his fears, get him to be honest. Get him to admit he can't do anything now and everything is merely bluster to avoid losing you. Because look at his words: 'I can leave anytime'... but he hasn't left, so what's wrong? What's the point of attorney appointments if he can't follow through because of 'guilt'?

 

I'm not criticising you, I used to do exactly the same thing... push and push and then back off because he hadn't done it. Its all utter madness. What you need to do is get him to tell the truth (good luck ), and then act based on that. Better still, just act on what the facts are: facts are he's there for Christmas, so what are you going to do with your life?

 

Just imagine that nothing is going to change, and act accordingly. If you keep giving him credit based on something he may do in the future you're only going to be disappointed. You're single and its a great time for parties! Let him cook his goose at home.

[wildsoul]

If you keep giving him credit based on something he may do in the future you're only going to be disappointed.

Sage words. Pretty much all the mistakes I've made with my SM have been caused or worsened by me giving credit in advance. What usually happens is he will make some forward progress, but it stops just short of what I thought he told me he was going to do. For example, the first time he separated like he promised, but it was into a room-rental, not a full apartment. Or when he then moved out into the fully leased apartment, and promised that we would be a fully known-in-public couple within short order, but in reality he's told only 2 family members & 2 friends about me. The problem for the one who's given credit in advance is that when they default on their word, your only power is to pull out and walk away again. They inch forward, but it feels like it's because we're pulling/pushing them along. Tiring!

 

SpinningHead, I forget how many move-out dates he's given you, but wasn't it several already? It really does seem better to let him do the work this time, before getting his credits from you.

[LavendarGirl]

Your xMM doesn't need you to hold his hand, he can and should see his attorney on his own. Stand your ground girl!!

 

--LG.

[Spinning Head]

Frannie - thank you for your post. For some reason, what you wrote hit home for me and I keep reading it over and over and over.

 

Attorney cancelled appointment due to court conflict - second cancellation. MM claims he has called attorney's office several times and is waiting for another appointment to be scheduled. MM claims he told his W that the marriage cannot be repaired and that he is going to see an attorney.

 

I feel as if there is a tornado swirling inside of me about this R. I am trying to figure out why that is so. I do know that I need to compartmentalize this R in some fashion. It interferes with my work too much. I realize that the big reason that it interferes with my work is that working hours are when MM is available. MM is not available on weekends or week nights. However, MM constantly texts and calls me at night, in the morning and on weekends. I told MM that since he spends so much time texting and calling, why not go ahead and move out?

 

I don't understand any of it. I don't understand why W doesn't kick MM's ass out the door as she knows about the A and that it is ongoing. I don't understand why MM doesn't move out. I don't understand why I don't kick MM out of my life. Why do I keep holding out hope that something will change?

[norajane]

Those are all really good questions to ask yourself. Another one is, if MM is such an ass now, what makes you think he won't continue to be an ass even if he does leave his wife?

 

You are clinging to him because there is no other man in your life. If there were someone who could be with you openly and develop a relationship with you, you wouldn't give a damn about some MM who can't manage to make any decisions about his life, and his marriage.

 

Open your eyes and start looking around. I'll bet there are good men you are passing up because you only have eyes for this one.

[frannie]

Frannie - thank you for your post. For some reason, what you wrote hit home for me and I keep reading it over and over and over.

 

Attorney cancelled appointment due to court conflict - second cancellation. MM claims he has called attorney's office several times and is waiting for another appointment to be scheduled. MM claims he told his W that the marriage cannot be repaired and that he is going to see an attorney.

 

I feel as if there is a tornado swirling inside of me about this R. I am trying to figure out why that is so. I do know that I need to compartmentalize this R in some fashion. It interferes with my work too much. I realize that the big reason that it interferes with my work is that working hours are when MM is available. MM is not available on weekends or week nights. However, MM constantly texts and calls me at night, in the morning and on weekends. I told MM that since he spends so much time texting and calling, why not go ahead and move out?

 

I don't understand any of it. I don't understand why W doesn't kick MM's ass out the door as she knows about the A and that it is ongoing. I don't understand why MM doesn't move out. I don't understand why I don't kick MM out of my life. Why do I keep holding out hope that something will change?

 

To my eyes, it just looks like more buying of time by your MM. Which is understandable. It seems to me that he's waiting for his W to do the kicking out. But why should she? You and he are probably both expecting her to end her marriage because it suits you... but she might have completely different ideas, and that's up to her.

 

If he wants a divorce, then he has to do more than just say 'the marriage cannot be repaired' - if he even is couching it in those direct terms, which I suspect he won't be. I suspect he's scared. I suspect he wants her to pull the trigger. And I suspect she knows that, so she's sitting pretty - or she's just wondering what the hell he is playing at, what he wants, and why he just doesn't SAY so and get on with it. Those are all just guesses, of course.

 

In the meantime, while he's waiting for her to do his dirty work so he doesn't look like the bad guy, he's messing around with attorneys to buy time with you. It's really the only thing he can do, isn't it?

 

I still think you need to talk to him about his fears. If nothing else it will give you more insight, more idea of what you're up against and what he's capable of. I know we OW would like to be able to keep our hands clean, back off and see the MM do things off his own bat, in reasonable time, and avoiding unnecessary hurt to those depending on his actions. But the longer I watch all these situations play out (my own included) the more I realise that that is a seemingly impossible ask.

[NoIDidn't]

I think talking to him about his fears is going to be a huge waste of time.

 

He's already lying to you. His W doesn't know that the affair is on-going. If you want to find out for sure, call his house as you only have access to him while you are at work.

 

Seems to me like he is playing you for a fool. Constantly text messaging someone over the weekends isn't enough to change your life for. It can be done without missing a beat or looking completely awkward.

 

He's not buying time until he makes a move or until his W kicks him out. He's just stringing you along from the sound of things.

 

Do you work with him? Is that why he is only available at work?

[Spinning Head]

MM is meeting with attorney today. It'll be interesting to see what MM tells me about the visit with the attorney.

 

No, I don't work with the MM. We both own our own business and live about an hour apart.

 

MM's W knows that the A continues. Actually, she knows quite a bit. MM tells me about some of the rants in which he and his W engage. Lots of name calling and mud slinging at this point. Things have gotten very ugly at times. Everyone is completely on edge. I told MM that the turmoil needs to end for all of us.

 

I am taking a lot of deep breaths. I am trying to focus on things one day at a time. And, I am trying (which can be difficult) not to think about MM or what decision he will ultimately make. I do know that I am getting closer to turning the page on this chapter of my life.

[Spinning Head]

MM met with his attorney who adviced him to take a step back from me. He also was adviced that if MM was sincere in his goal to end his marriage, the attorney would represent him.

 

We were supposed to meet on Tuesday and did not do so. I haven't seen MM in a week. MM has called me every day and the nonstop text messages continued. On Christmas Day, I received several texts of how no one in his family was speaking to each other. The sons did not say 'thank you' for their gifts.

 

Today was supposed to be the 'day' for MM to move out or move on. Actually, no mention of that fact in the texts I received from him so far today.

 

MM tells me that I need to be patient and let him work on his own time frame. My patience has worn thin as I think he has had ample time to move on. MM's family is in constant turmoil over this situation and I am as well.

 

I think the best thing for me at this point is to not see MM at all while he is living with his W. I have been asked out a few times and I am going to start accepting invitations to go out. I feel like my life has been on hold for the past four months and I don't want it to be on hold any longer. MM has not made any concrete efforts to end his marriage. Everyone knows about us and, yet, no one does anything. So, I need to be the one to move on.

[SupportGroupie]

I wish you luck. It seems like quite a hard time and waiting is never easy is it?

Yeah I would not have wanted to, nor gone to the attorney with him. I think it sends a bad message and is self serving...and inconsiderate to the W...even if it is meant as considerate to you. He should end what he has, then come tell you...

 

best of luck

SG

[whichwayisup]

Allow him alone time to figure this out, go NC and tell him to call you when the divorce is final, then you can consider dating him and take it slow. Until then, go on with your life, focus on friends and family.

[jj33]

Spinning that is EXACTLY what you need to do.

 

You are getting texts as if the two of you are "in it together"

 

yet he has told you his atty told him to take a step back from you

 

and he has said he needs to do this in his own time.

 

Much a it hurts the world is his oyster - give him all the space and time he needs.

 

Use this time as you had planned to step back to try to heal and much as it hurts to let go. It may take him a matter of weeks but it could be months and you deserve better than to hang in the balance.

 

All the best

 

jj

[2sure]

MM met with his attorney who adviced him to take a step back from me. He also was adviced that if MM was sincere in his goal to end his marriage, the attorney would represent him.

 

More than anything, I hate when the WS says something like this to OW. Maybe its because Ive been divorced, or because someone close to me practices family law...but how is it that I can see right through this and you cannot?? I think you do, in your heart. What he told you is NONSENSE. I would bet money he never even went. If he had, he would have come away with more sage and substantial advice than this - even from a paralegal.

 

First, infidelity is not grounds for divorce is most states. Can't be held against you. If your state is one of the few that will accept infidelity as grounds - the wife already knows about the affair and will use her knowledge both as grounds and as her trump - regardless of whether he is still seeing you or not. Period. If MM keeps seeing OW , the divorce proceeds. If he doesnt, no divorce, no need for attorney...sure, the lawyer told him to stay married, during an initial consult. If so, then MM showed he did not want a divorce.

 

Next - OF COURSE THE LAWYER WILL TAKE HIS CASE "if MM was sincere in his goal to end his marriage, the attorney would represent him. ...

This is not criminal law, why on earth would the attorney NOT take it...any atty would - nobody wins so what difference could it possibly make?? By "sincere" the attorney meant - ready to put down the retainer.

That is the only hold up, and MM didnt. If he was (wisely) attorney shopping - he would have had figures, time frames and real advice.

 

I'm not saying you shouldnt love him or that he doesnt love you - but truly, this is nonsense. He is not being truthful - like his wife , you are trying to make important life decision based on what you've got - and what you have is nonsense.

[frannie]

MM met with his attorney who adviced him to take a step back from me. He also was adviced that if MM was sincere in his goal to end his marriage, the attorney would represent him.

 

We were supposed to meet on Tuesday and did not do so. I haven't seen MM in a week. MM has called me every day and the nonstop text messages continued. On Christmas Day, I received several texts of how no one in his family was speaking to each other. The sons did not say 'thank you' for their gifts.

 

Today was supposed to be the 'day' for MM to move out or move on. Actually, no mention of that fact in the texts I received from him so far today.

 

MM tells me that I need to be patient and let him work on his own time frame. My patience has worn thin as I think he has had ample time to move on. MM's family is in constant turmoil over this situation and I am as well.

 

I think the best thing for me at this point is to not see MM at all while he is living with his W. I have been asked out a few times and I am going to start accepting invitations to go out. I feel like my life has been on hold for the past four months and I don't want it to be on hold any longer. MM has not made any concrete efforts to end his marriage. Everyone knows about us and, yet, no one does anything. So, I need to be the one to move on.

 

OK, he asks you to be patient, but bombards you with texts? I think that if he wants patience he has to cut back on the details of what his sons did or said on Christmas Day, and let you know more broad information, if there is any. And if there is no broad information (papers filed, etc.) then not to contact you. It's simply pointless for him to keep embroiling you in the day-to-day of his life and then expecting you to 'be patient'.

 

I just can't see him making any move whatever... he's waiting for his W to do something or 'realise' that 'her marriage is over', and she's not going to, why the devil should she? Sorry, but he just sounds like half a dozen other recent stories on here of MM dithering and blethering about and hoping people have infinite patience. The mind boggles.

 

Men like this don't 'make decisions'... they wait til decisions are made for them. They have a whole raft of 'issues' they simply don't want to look at, and it's a lot easier to wait for others in their lives to force issues. It's what they've always done.

 

I think you're right, the best thing is to tell him to get back to you if any forward movement takes place, and otherwise continue with your life. He could be months... years. No point in putting your life on hold. On the other hand, my suggestion still stands: get him to say what the hold-up is REALLY about. He's scared, and he needs to talk it through with someone, imho.

[jj33]

2sure something really doesnt make sense now that you mention it

 

Its very common for one or both spouses to interview a divorce atty so that the other spouse is blocked from using them (theyve already been consulted)

 

If he saw this atty that atty is out of the loop and cant reprsent the W and would have been paid for that meeting already.

 

I can understand that any divorce atty would say stay away from whoever you are dating it only makes the divorce rougher I have heard that from divorce attorneys on numerous occasions with respect to my own customers.

 

But u are probably right. Its a questin of putting down a retainer however the fact that MM didnt put down a retainer with the first attry he met with isnt necessarily a red flag.

 

What is more of a red flag to me is he had to wait through 2 cancelled apptments to see this one (allegedly) and then didnt sign up and hasnt made a move to contact others

[wildsoul]

Although infidelity can't be used as cause in most states, a BS who's angry that her WS is seeing someone might try to make things even more difficult.

 

The red flag for me is that he is waiting to file papers before moving out. You don't need an attorney to rent an apartment and begin separating.

[NoIDidn't]

LOL. The *attorney* told him to step back from you. Nonsense. Gotta love being able to stand someone up on a date due to *legal* complications.

 

Sorry, Spinning, my sarcasm is more directed at his actions than at you.

 

There is another *famous* board where the OW post about the ins and outs, ups and downs of the separating, divorcing, or divorced MM. And most of the time they come back and report that they were being strung along or straight out lied to.

 

He is lying to you. About most things. Telling you what he and his W argued about. Could it be that he is reliving the initial D-day arguments and telling you that they are something current?

 

I still stand by what I said. You only have access to him during the work day and not on the weekends or during the holidays. If he was really divorcing, you would have heard from him. But instead, he uses the *attorney* lie so that he can spend his holidays with his family and W unencumbered with having to contact you or worry about you inquiring into why he isn't doing *something* towards you for the holidays.

 

Don't keep falling for his lies, though. He's stringing you along.

[Spinning Head]

Thanks for the comments. All make sense.

 

I received several texts from MM on Friday. Then, out of the blue, I was asked out for dinner - blind date. I accepted. During dinner, MM called which was really odd as it was a Friday night. Isn't that time MM is supposed to be with his family. I ignored the call. Several texts followed the telephone call, including one that stated that he guess he deserved me not taking his call. WTF?

 

On Saturday, several more texts and another telephone call. I did answer that call. On and on talk about his family, marriage, will he leave, etc. Then MM mentioned ending our relationship. Fine. MM then retreated and begged me to continue to love him, to forgive him for what he said, etc.

 

I admit that I had gotten MM a Christmas gift about a month ago. My plan was to place the gift by the door to his business on Sunday as I was in town for a relative's birthday. More texts from MM on Saturday and Sunday asking me to meet him so we could exchange gifts in person. Honestly, I didn't think MM has a gift for me - which is no big deal. I'd prefer he not give me anything. We agreed on a time and location. One hour before we were to meet, I receive a text that MM cannot meet, don't ask why, and he is terribly sorry. I am told the reason he can't meet is that he is playing golf with his sons.

 

I did drop off the gift by his door to his business. I needed to get rid of that gift. It actually was a neat gift.

 

Later, I receive additional texts of "I am sorry" and thank yous for the gift. That he loved it and will treasure it forever. Another text this AM that he is using his gift and loves me.

 

I am tired of MM. He is too much drama for me. I realized that MM has a string of broken relationships throughout his life. I discovered he had an affair six months after he was married. He's been married for 32 years. He has had several affairs and one illegitimate child. His relationship with his wife and sons is horrible. His relationship with his father was bad such that his father turned away from him. He has no relationship with his brother. Yet, according to MM, everyone else is to blame for the failed relationships. The one constant factor in every relationship in his life is him. I wonder if he realizes that simple fact?

 

Oh, and according to MM, I am high maintenance (emotionally). The last time I called MM was about three weeks ago. MM is the one that calls me. The last time I saw MM was about two weeks ago. I don't ask him when we can meet anymore. I have never asked MM for money. I have never asked MM to do anything for me (except leave his marriage).

[frannie]

... he had an affair six months after he was married. He's been married for 32 years. He has had several affairs and one illegitimate child.

 

Oh, and according to MM, I am high maintenance (emotionally).

 

Just tell him to take a hike, what a waste of space he is

[SoleMate]

I get the impression that your head would be spinning less, or not at all, if you were not involved with this hypocritical, irrational, manipulative deceiver.....

 

Why did you give up on the Dec 26 deadline? That was the best thing I heard from you in this threa.

[norajane]

I am tired of MM. He is too much drama for me. I realized that MM has a string of broken relationships throughout his life. I discovered he had an affair six months after he was married. He's been married for 32 years. He has had several affairs and one illegitimate child. His relationship with his wife and sons is horrible. His relationship with his father was bad such that his father turned away from him. He has no relationship with his brother.

Yet, according to MM, everyone else is to blame for the failed relationships. The one constant factor in every relationship in his life is him. I wonder if he realizes that simple fact?

 

You realize it. So what makes you think your relationship with him would turn out any more successful than all of his others?