I am the OW - Need Input

[norajane]

I don't know what to do!!!

 

Yes you do! You just don't want to do it!

 

So what if you haven't met a man you like yet? Is it so terrible to be on your own? Is that why you're so desperate to hold on to a MM? You're afraid of being alone? Or are you actually afraid of intimacy and commitment, and pining after a married man is "safe" because he'll never ask you for true intimacy and commitment?

 

There are no guarantees with dating. But there is a guarantee with MM - while you're in love with him, you will feel more alone and more miserable than any other time in your life.

[Sandy223]

Thanks NoraJane ... and everyone else ... I love the fact that you are all being so supportive .. this sitatuation is HELL and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy!!!

 

I am booking spas not so that I wont be alone ...but so that I can do something nice for myself ... the one thing, I have to admit, that has been positive about this A ... is that it has propelled me forward ... I am in the best shape of my life, I have been taking extra good care of myself .... I am not going to sit home and cry and eat a box of cake ... every time I feel depressed over this, I go and do something nice for myself ... something along the lines of self improvement ... which is what has given me the strength not to completely fall apart ...

 

... so I booked the spa because I NEED it, and I want to come back refreshed and on top of my game ... not for him, but for me ... the more attractive and on top of my game I feel, the easier it will be for me to continue to date others and find happiness somewhere else ... this is clearly not the answer ...

 

Norajane ... I don't know why I am holding onto this ... it is CRAP! But,I really do keep him on his toes ... I have pushed him away so many times over the years, and will continue to do so ... until he eitherr leaves his marraige or until I meet someone else ... that is probably what has prolonged this ... I push him away, I mean it ... I am out and about ... other men want to go out with me ... and he just keeps coming after me ...

 

... the best I can hope for is to come away from this unscathed .... which is why I pray that I meet someone else who "does it for me" before I really get in too deep (as if I am not already!!!)

[jj33]

Sandy I didnt mean that you werent being yourself I meant that he has set it up as if you are auditioning. Im giong to stay in the safety of my marriage where I really cant give you 1/100th of the sort of relationship you deserve and IF I am happy enough with you, MAYBE I will consider something more? Whats that about?

 

Get rid of him. Being a bit player in a nightmare is no worse than being on your own.

[jj33]

At least if he had the balls to say he currently has no intention of leaving but wants to be with you, you would have gone into this with your eyes wide open. But he didnt. He was trying to be smooth. And its just so transparent. It wouldnt have been to you because you are in the thick of it. But from the outside looking in, its very disingenuous.

[norajane]

But,I really do keep him on his toes

 

And what has that gotten you? Has he left his wife?

 

All you're doing is keeping the chase interesting for him. You push him away, he chases, you take him in. Again and again. So what? Obviously, he likes the chase. And you keep taking him in, so it's worth it to him to keep chasing.

 

Try this: push him away for good. He can only come back if he has left his wife and filed for divorce - papers in hand. Until then, you don't want him coming around. See if he puts his money where his mouth is.

[Sandy223]

Hey NoraJane ... this has to do with me not wanting to be alone anymore ... I have never dating a MM before, so I don't think it is a fear of intimacy thing for me or anything like that ...

 

.. .i just hope that praying works this time .... .I will tell you a little story ... I have smoked since 5th grade (closet smoker ... ) no one know/knew how much I smoked ... and about 5 years ago I tried to quit ... on more than one occasion I tried to quit ...I couldn't quit .. .and I KNEW it was going to kill me ... so I just kept praying; every day and night I prayed ... and then I stopped ... and one morning I woke up (last May), and didn't smoke, didn't even think about it ... I just stopped!! Period. No help, no strings.

 

... anyway ... back to the MM ... I also enjoy being with him ... just wanted to address what you had said ... I appreciate your posts very much.... I will just do my best everyday to be my best, and keep moving forward ... and I will pray that it works itself out ... one way or the other .. .

[Sandy223]

Sandy I didnt mean that you werent being yourself I meant that he has set it up as if you are auditioning. Im giong to stay in the safety of my marriage where I really cant give you 1/100th of the sort of relationship you deserve and IF I am happy enough with you, MAYBE I will consider something more? Whats that about?

 

Get rid of him. Being a bit player in a nightmare is no worse than being on your own.

 

 

Thank you!!!! You are right jj33 ... you are all right ... this is EXACTLY what he is saying ... e.g, If I am happy enough with you I will leave! That is what he is saying .... he did tell me that he was thinking about leaving when he son leaves that house ... he thought that would be the time to leave ... since he claims he stayed for the children after all ....

 

.. .anyway ... so this was the "bait" that he gave me ... and I am really confused .... I have a really good male friend who is about 58 years old ... he advised me to play it cool, and just keep dating others until one of two things happens - he leaves to be with you, or you meet someone else ...

 

.... maybe I will just stop thinking about all of this ... I am doing now what I said I would not do .... over-thinking this and getting embroiled in the possible outcome ... very, very bad.

[jj33]

OK if you KNOW that is exactly what he is doing then cut him off at the pass.

 

You are NOT auditioning for anyone. You are NOT anyone's option. Its the old saying if you dont know what you want, you dont like what you have.

 

So you end the PA and say you understand leaving is a big decision for him and you dont want to get in the middle and if he leaves to look you up and if you are still around and single you will have something to discuss and see where it goes but its hard to see where anything can go (except to your bedroom...) while he is married.

 

If he says he doesnt have enough information etc to leave smile and tell him that whether he leaves a marriage is between him and his wife it has nothing to do with you.

 

Its no more complicated than that. It hurts to walk away from someone you love but you have to love you more. The other thing is you THINK you are keeping him on his toes but as NoraJane said you are just amusing him with the chase. Hes a player either that or a selfish coward. Otherwise he would never be taking this tact.

 

People leave marriages for themselves. Someone else may be the catalyst but if he was head over heels in love and that was sufficient reason for him to leave he would be packing his bags.

 

Saying you are not going to think about it (uh unlikely) and continuing to see him is not a good plan and in fact only hurts your cause.

 

If your greatest fear is that if you leave he will find someone else then thats an even bigger reason to step away. If he does leave for someone else, then he wasnt really that invested in you or your relationship. And he would never have left to be with you anyway or if he did you wouldnt have lasted. Someone who is really in love dont just take the next one because you backed away. He comes and finds you because you are in his heart.

 

Use the holidays and your spa break as a chance to step away for good unless and until he is single.

[Sandy223]

Thanks again ... jj33 and norjane, and everyone else ... jj33, I will respond more to your post this evening when I get home from work ... i need to keep talking with you all ... i don't really have a good support network here, and I really do need the strength to walk away from this .... have a good day everyone

[Sandy223]

Hi everyone ... Norajane, I like your new photo

 

Anyway ... just wanted to keep you posted ... we (MM and I) cleared up the no talking about the spouse rule ... and it was a very short, discussion ...

 

... i am so torn and confused it is horrible ... I think you are all right! You have all been through this and know!!

 

Last Monday night I saw my therapist ... did I mention that I am seeking outside help for this? I have never been in this situation before and know that I need help ...

 

.. .anyway ... doctor said the rollercoaster was normal, that I am smart, and knew that I was taking a risk even going here .. all in all though, the doctor actually thinks the risk might end up being worth it ...

 

... doctor thinks the risk i am taking is marginal because I am mentally strong, and seriously/actively dating others ... I can't go into all the detail here because each therapy sessions is an hour ... also, his conclusion is based on my specific situation .. this is hardly a one size fits all thing ... despite much of the commonality in these angst ridden situations ...

 

also, I told him about this board .. .and he thinks that it is good that I am here reaching out for support too ...

 

... just wanted to update everyone ... you all have been so helpful and i appreciate so much your responses ...

 

... right now I am hoping that I get through this in one piece ... taking it one day at a time and not trying to get overwhelmed ... I will continue to keep you posted ... thanks again.

[Sandy223]

... one more thing ... which I forgot to mention ... my doctor thought the risk might be worth it because based on everything that is going on with MM (doctor knows far more than I can possibly post on these boards), doctor thinks things with the MM actually have a chance of working out ... plus, he also thinks that despite the horror of these types of situations, that I am balanced and strong enough to handle this and get through it in one piece ...

 

... that's all ... just wanted to keep you posted.

[bentnotbroken]

Where did your doc get his degree:confused:?

[Sandy223]

Where did your doc get his degree:confused:?

 

He has three degrees from Harvard - seriously - I am not saying this to be a jerk .. the man has seen everything ... he has seen these situatios work out because they are right for both people ... he doesn't make moral judgements and put everything into one big BIN ..

 

... enough said, I really want to avoid talking about the therapy here ... I probably shouldn't have even mentioned him ... (would hate it if someone took my comments out of context and improperly applied them to their siuation).

[LavendarGirl]

... enough said, I really want to avoid talking about the therapy here ... I probably shouldn't have even mentioned him ... (would hate it if someone took my comments out of context and improperly applied them to their siuation).

 

Hi Sandy,

Reading your post, what struck me most is what you're saying about your therapist's optimism over your A, and that you don't want others to read your optimism out of context and improperly apply them to their situation?

 

That makes me a little curious. It is very easy to think that our situation is unique, and that if others just knew the depths of our emotions/connections with the MM, they would too understand that the rules don't apply.

 

But sadly, the rules do apply.

 

I am glad, though, to hear that you are seeing a therapist and he is able to help you in working through your emotions associated with your A. Good luck with therapy and your MM.

[wildsoul]

Hi Sandy,

Reading your post, what struck me most is what you're saying about your therapist's optimism over your A, and that you don't want others to read your optimism out of context and improperly apply them to their situation?

 

That makes me a little curious. It is very easy to think that our situation is unique, and that if others just knew the depths of our emotions/connections with the MM, they would too understand that the rules don't apply.

 

But sadly, the rules do apply.

Sister, you're telling the truth! All of us OP rationalize that our situation is unique. Reading story after story here was a real eye-opener when I joined this board. Lots of otherwise very savvy/smart people in these situations, too.

 

I'd like to add something about another OP tendency, which I think we've all done too, which is to have selective memory. The MP, a friend, a therapist--someone we're talking to about our A with, will say things both good/bad about our R. Yet if we're still really wanting to stay, we will selectively remember and cling to the more hopeful words.

 

For example, the MM will sometimes say, "I think about spending my life with you," but other times will say, "I don't think I can leave my marriage." Guess which statement we think is the truth? Un hunh.

 

I'm sure your therapist said that sometimes A's work out. It's true, sometimes they do. The therapist also probably said sometimes they don't. Most therapists won't actually take a stand one way or another; they try to be objective. Don't mistake that objectivity for a prognosis, especially when the therapist doesn't know the MM and isn't counselling you as a couple.

[NoIDidn't]

In my work as a contractor, I learned a valuable lesson: the best time to look for a new job or a side job is when you already have a job.

 

That's what this guy's talking about his W when he's with his OW sounds like to me. He already has a main job, so he's just hanging out with his side job with the OP.

 

Thing is, its really easy to quit side jobs. Even ones that you love.

[Sandy223]

In my work as a contractor, I learned a valuable lesson: the best time to look for a new job or a side job is when you already have a job.

 

That's what this guy's talking about his W when he's with his OW sounds like to me. He already has a main job, so he's just hanging out with his side job with the OP.

 

Thing is, its really easy to quit side jobs. Even ones that you love.

 

 

Thank you for comparing me to a side job - that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. btw ... everytime I have gone out looking for a new job while I have a current one, it's because I am not completely happy with the main job ... and in all instances, ultimately left the main job to be with something better suited to me ... so, actually, your analogy has very positive implications for me as well .. which I am sure you did not intend.

[NoIDidn't]

Thank you for comparing me to a side job - that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. btw ... everytime I have gone out looking for a new job while I have a current one, it's because I am not completely happy with the main job ... and in all instances, ultimately left the main job to be with something better suited to me ... so, actually, your analogy has very positive implications for me as well .. which I am sure you did not intend.

 

No, I didn't intend anything negative with my post. Why are you expecting to be flamed?

 

I wasn't comparing you, a person, to a side job. The affair, is not a person, its a type of relationship. Its a R on the side, in most instances, of a main R or M.

 

He is basically telling you about his W and life with her because the affair is the side relationship. Kind of like when you have a part time job, it will always come second to your main job. Even the part time boss will accept that reality depending on some circumstances.

 

I think its horrible that he talks about his real life with you in such a blatant, in your face kind of way. But it seems to me that he is just setting up his out, his excuse, for leaving you hanging when it happens.

[NoIDidn't]

There is also the part of "exploring things" that you mentioned that made me think about my contractor days.

 

I could go on several sales calls (interview OPs) and be secure in the fact that I already had a job (marriage), I just needed some business (the affair).

 

So it wasn't a dig. Maybe just not a well explained analogous situation.

[GreenEyedLady]

So it wasn't a dig. Maybe just not a well explained analogous situation.

 

I don't know that it wasn't well explained. Just the obvious alternative wasn't discussed. Who leaves their job without another job lined up?

[NoIDidn't]

I don't know that it wasn't well explained. Just the obvious alternative wasn't discussed. Who leaves their job without another job lined up?

 

Someone that is taking a risk to do something that they really love or always dreamed of doing one day.

 

I thought of the job thing applying to the whole sha-bang. Sometimes people do leave one job without another lined up. I can't say that I've ever done it myself, but some people do. Especially when the job they are leaving is just an ill-fit for them.

[norajane]

Someone that is taking a risk to do something that they really love or always dreamed of doing one day.

 

I thought of the job thing applying to the whole sha-bang. Sometimes people do leave one job without another lined up. I can't say that I've ever done it myself, but some people do. Especially when the job they are leaving is just an ill-fit for them.

 

I've done it. Twice. Best decisions of my life, and career. The first time I was burned out after a decade of consulting. Second time the job was unappealing, and I relocated and left them.

 

Sometimes, hanging onto something just to hang onto it until you find something better actually PREVENTS you from finding something better. Or it makes you jump to a new job that you might not necessarily care for if you had adequate time to explore your options.

[GreenEyedLady]

Someone that is taking a risk to do something that they really love or always dreamed of doing one day.

 

I thought of the job thing applying to the whole sha-bang. Sometimes people do leave one job without another lined up. I can't say that I've ever done it myself, but some people do. Especially when the job they are leaving is just an ill-fit for them.

 

 

But most people DON'T.

 

For reasons of stability, security etc.

 

I don't think your analogy was bad at all. People just don't want to consider themselves less than #1. So I say, don't act like it.

[NoIDidn't]

But most people DON'T.

 

For reasons of stability, security etc.

 

I don't think your analogy was bad at all. People just don't want to consider themselves less than #1. So I say, don't act like it.

 

I'm a little slow tonight, so bear with me.

 

Don't act like less than #1? Is that what you are saying?

 

I've been married for more than 10 years to the same man and run my own household relatively efficiently. I would have a hard time acting like less than #1, honestly. I wouldn't tolerate hearing about something that I feel competes with my position (not saying the OP is in a competition, just speaking generally).

 

I paid the cost to be the boss. LOL.

[GreenEyedLady]

I'm a little slow tonight, so bear with me.

 

Don't act like less than #1? Is that what you are saying?

 

I've been married for more than 10 years to the same man and run my own household relatively efficiently. I would have a hard time acting like less than #1, honestly. I wouldn't tolerate hearing about something that I feel competes with my position (not saying the OP is in a competition, just speaking generally).

 

I paid the cost to be the boss. LOL.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying.

 

How many OW accept what they're given? And how many say,"Oh no you did not......?"

 

From my experience, men don't want doormats. They may want a fantasy of a woman who bends to their every need/want, but they don't leave for that. They want an equal. They want a woman who won't settle. Who knows what they want and won't accept less than that.

 

I think as sad as the state of men is sometimes, they really want to be good. They just have to be taught how. And they need consequences. As crazy as that sounds.

 

But I think we are in agreement.

 

GEL