How do I clue him in??

[One Issue Idiot]

What do you think I should do?

 

Relax, and yes consider therapy. Your anxiety is not helping you at all, it makes you feel bad and it clouds your judgement.

 

Your boyfriend has given you many reassurances about wanting a future with you. He talks about it as well, but from what you write I get the feeling that all you care for is the ring.

 

He says I love you, and you think ring ring ring ring ring?

 

If people on a forum can pick up on it, he sure can too.

 

It's not healthy, nor normal.

 

You think you want to start a future. Well, guess what you might well be on your way to destroy your future. Lots of couples break up because one side felt pressured into a commitment they weren't yet ready for. Marriages fail because of the same thing.

 

Last year around christmas, you snooped in his computer, watched presents etc. Now, you're on the same road again. Could you have had a much more relaxed and peaceful christmas? Surely.

 

Did you learn a lesson?

[allina]

Yeah, I'm starting to get pissed off and resentful about it now. When someone at our friend's wedding asked him when we were getting engaged he said "I don't know, I like to keep her on her toes." More like just not propose. I just starting to think "Why doesn't he want to marry me?"

 

I agree the situation isn't too good. Last night we had a nice talk and I did tell him how happy I was in my job and with him. And he said he was happy with me too. What do you think I should do?

 

I think you should focus on your career. You worked hard and got an advanced degree. No one can take that away from you, put some of this energy in to you and your career.

 

I'm not saying that because I think you relationship is in trouble. I do think that your bf loves you. But I don't understand what he wants and I can see how his beating around the bush and toying with you would be annoying. While I do believe that you're also at fault for always having marriage on the brain, he really should be able to give you some sort of idea after two years.

 

I know he keeps saying all this stuff about it being a huge surprise and keeping you on your toes. I get that. But if he wants to marry you what's wrong with saying "LB I love you, we will be engaged before 2009 ends." It's not like telling you that you will get engaged within a year ruins ANY part of a surprise!

 

I'm honestly a little torn when it comes to your situation. A part of me thinks that you need to relax and that he's just dealing with things in his own way and that no matter what he did/said you'd stress and speculate.

 

But on the other hand I sometimes feel like he's bs-ing with this surprise talk. I know that I don't even desire marriage as much as you do, but I know that if right now, after 2 and a half years I had no real indication about my future with my SO I wouldn't be happy.

 

It can be tough. I know a girl from HS who was with her bf for just over 3 years. She moved out of state for him. They were really happy. She always wanted marriage and kids but wasn't thinking about it for the first couple of years. When her friends started getting engaged, married and having kids she started bringing up marriage to her bf. At this point she was with him for 3 years and he had no plan to propose anytime soon. She left and moved back to CA. She's crushed but says she realized there was no future with him and that she would never have a husband and child if she stayed. I agree and admire her for making such a hard choice. But I partially wonder if it was a mistake. They did love each other, they were happy, so maybe she should have stayed, maybe he would have changed his mind, they were only 25.

[Lauriebell82]

Thank you so much Allina, everything you said really made sense. Asking him about engagement in 2009 is a good idea. However, I did try something along those lines, I asked him where he saw us in 5 years and he said "If you think I'm going to tell you when I'll propose your crazy!" So wtf?

 

I get so insecure about this because I do feel he may be b.s.ing me about the "surprise." If he wanted to marry me he would propose. Since he isn't and just giving me these "clues" just makes me think he is doing that to make me happy and keep me in the relationship, but not actually have to propose or marry me. He may just secretly have these doubts that keep him from deciding he wants to marry me. Because I am not "perfect" I get the feeling he doesn't want to marry me. He did say once that if I didn't cause so much "drama" I'd be perfect. I got really pissed and he did apologize for saying that and said he was just angry and didn't mean it. He said he loved me the way I was. Part of me believes that he did mean what he said though. He has also tried to arrange all these "activities" for us lately, like going to a happy hour with his work friends tonight and going to a Steelers game next week. Maybe that is to distract me who knows.

 

I'll try to have the talk with him tonight. I hope it doesn't go badly.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

He has also tried to arrange all these "activities" for us lately, like going to a happy hour with his work friends tonight and going to a Steelers game next week. Maybe that is to distract me who knows.

 

Or maybe, LB, he wants to get you out and have a great time. I doubt he's thinking about proposal 24/7. He's a man, he likes fun and excitement, lives in the here and now. Why not skip the talk for now and show him how much fun LB can be? Why not let him see you shine and have a great time infront of his friends? Why not just enjoy yourself and let loose?

 

Here's a silly story: 11 y.o. gets in trouble and get his bike taken away for a week. The end of the next week he's under moms feet and she suggest that he go ride his bike. He says, "I don't like to ride bikes anymore" Mom, "ofcourse you do!" Son, "Nope, and now when I get punished it won't be so much of a punnishment" Smart for a kid, he's finding his own way to take my power away. I was quite impressed!

 

BF can use it only because you let him. Why not set some smaller goals for yourself and promise when you've completed them then you will allow yourself to think of engagement again.

[One Issue Idiot]

Lauriebelle: alina didn't say: give him an ultimatium to propose in 2009. Read her post again.

 

I know he keeps saying all this stuff about it being a huge surprise and keeping you on your toes. I get that. But if he wants to marry you what's wrong with saying "LB I love you, we will be engaged before 2009 ends." It's not like telling you that you will get engaged within a year ruins ANY part of a surprise!

 

Thank you so much Allina, everything you said really made sense. Asking him about engagement in 2009 is a good idea

 

Btw: how are you, when you get really pissed? Just curious.

[norajane]

I get so insecure about this because I do feel he may be b.s.ing me about the "surprise." If he wanted to marry me he would propose. Since he isn't and just giving me these "clues" just makes me think he is doing that to make me happy and keep me in the relationship, but not actually have to propose or marry me. He may just secretly have these doubts that keep him from deciding he wants to marry me. Because I am not "perfect" I get the feeling he doesn't want to marry me.

 

Is this what you really think of your bf? Is this what you really believe he's thinking?

 

If so, I don't know why YOU want to marry him.

[Lauriebell82]

Is this what you really think of your bf? Is this what you really believe he's thinking?

 

If so, I don't know why YOU want to marry him.

 

No, I don't think that. I think I'm just frustrated and paranoid. Because he won't talk to me about it or give me any indication it just makes me paranoid that he doesn't want to popose. I talked with my coworker and she said I'm being nuts and that I should just calm down and wait for him to surprise me. It's nice to work with a bunch of counselors! Rereading everything I've written I probably do sound nuts! I know you all have said that as well, it's just harder said then done.

 

And OIO: I reread Allina's post and realized she didn't say to give him an ultimatum. I don't think even having a "talk" with him would help, he'd probably just feel pressured. Hopefully the activities that he arranged for us will help me cheer up and have some fun. I think he wants to make me happy and have some fun, so I'm going to try.

[BrooklynBridge]

Since you're totally obsessed about this situation, have some guts and have an open discussion about this with him. Or have him read this huge thread. And get his feedback.

 

I've been following this thread for a while now and this does not seem healthy at all. What happens when you need to buy a house? Have a baby? Make a career choice? Its a little out of control.

[Trialbyfire]

Glad to hear you're going to cool it or you'll drive the two of you insane. One thing to clarify, and anyone, correct me if I'm wrong but no one said your b/f is perfect. There's no doubt he has an immature way of handling a number of issues. He's also a twenty-something guy who's on the cusp of wanting a life-long commitment.

 

Having said that, you can't control him and shouldn't want to. Focus on controlling yourself. Pushing him, based on the impression I get from your description of his personality type, will push him off the cusp onto the wrong side. Remember what I said earlier in this thread about people wanting what they can't have. I'm not suggesting games but if something is too available or attempts to drive you in a certain direction, stubborn personality types will drive the other way. (Hahahaha...sorry but I'm laughing at both you and myself. Recognize the dynamics? )

[I Luv the Chariot OH]

He can say he is committed to me and all, but we are still just dating in my book. Until there is a ring on my finger I will not consider him completely committed.

I think this is a very telling statement. Who cares what he says, when it's all about what you want?

[JamesM]

Again, I may have asked this.....

 

WHY do you want marriage with him versus simply living with him?

 

Is it more important to have HIM all of your life versus being married?

 

Do you love him more than marriage?

[hotgurl]

LB,

you have to calm down. Why don't you make a deal with yourself don't hint or talk, or mention marriage to you boyfriend for 6 months. Just enjoy him and your time together.

 

I think you are driving yourself crazy with this (and probably him to)

 

Marriage won't change much of anything. I got married to my BF after several years. When I finally relaxed and stopped stressing about marriage is when he finally proposed.

[Lishy]

LB, correct me if I am wrong but didnt you once have a discussion with him about your dad mentioning how much weddings cost and he said "well he wont have to worry about that for awhile"???

[Kamille]

Here is a pattern I see emerging in these threads.

 

LB notices something that makes her think her bf is getting ready to propose.

 

Some people, as in this case, answer her original question. Others, who know how marriage-minded she is, tackle her on the issue.

 

Her initial observations inevitably lead to a bout of anxiety about whether or not bf will ever propose.

 

Posters inevitably try to incite her to put things in perspective.

 

My question is this: LB, how much of posting on LS contributes to your sustained anxiety? How much of it is part of your compulsion to discuss the topic of will he propose? What if you made a pact with yourself to stop posting on LS about this topic until he does propose? Wouldn't that help alleviate your anxiety?

[oceangrl]

Guys aren't as clueless as you think, LB. He KNOWS that you want to get married. Talking to him more about what he is planning WILL NOT make him propose any sooner. And there's nothing you can do LB. You will never be able to control him, and you have to accept that....the only thing you CAN control is your own emotions.

 

I think from a guy's point of view (the guys can correct me if I'm wrong) he doesn't need a fancy wedding to be committed to you. He just wants you, and that's it. Most guys I know, including my bf, would be perfectly fine with just signing some papers and being done with it. When the guy senses that you are really eager to get married, it makes a guy feel like the wedding is more important to you than the actual relationship. It makes him feel like the wedding has more influence in making you happy and not just the fact that you'll be with him. It'll make him feel as though you need the fancy dress, the fancy restaurant reception, and the most beautiful ring in order to be happy. That might not be your intention, but that is how he will feel. That is why people are telling you - make an emphasis on your relationship rather than the proposal and wedding.

 

You'll know that you have a great catch when you don't care about when you'll get married, what type of ring you get, or what dress you'll be wearing because in the end he'll be there and that's all you want. You won't care about all that fancy stuff relating to the wedding because he is the only thing you want and having him at the present moment, will make you happy....not the idea of the wedding in the future (that'll just be the icing on top)

 

Be thankful for what you have LB....Think about all the single folks out there that haven't found the type of love you have with your bf. Think about the married couples out there that wish they had a relationship like the one you have with your bf. You don't need to be married to be happy....everything that you could have ever asked for should be you right in front of you

[RecordProducer]

Thank you so much Allina, everything you said really made sense. Asking him about engagement in 2009 is a good idea. However, I did try something along those lines, I asked him where he saw us in 5 years and he said "If you think I'm going to tell you when I'll propose your crazy!" So wtf?

 

I get so insecure about this because I do feel he may be b.s.ing me about the "surprise." If he wanted to marry me he would propose. Since he isn't and just giving me these "clues" just makes me think he is doing that to make me happy and keep me in the relationship, but not actually have to propose or marry me. He may just secretly have these doubts that keep him from deciding he wants to marry me. Because I am not "perfect" I get the feeling he doesn't want to marry me. He did say once that if I didn't cause so much "drama" I'd be perfect. I got really pissed and he did apologize for saying that and said he was just angry and didn't mean it. He said he loved me the way I was. Part of me believes that he did mean what he said though. He has also tried to arrange all these "activities" for us lately, like going to a happy hour with his work friends tonight and going to a Steelers game next week. Maybe that is to distract me who knows.

 

I'll try to have the talk with him tonight. I hope it doesn't go badly.

If he talks about marriage and stuff - he IS planning to propose to you in the future. He wouldn't just BS you. He might change his mind or he might feel uncertain about his final decision (pressured by you, perhaps), but I almost guarantee you that he is not just stringing you along intentionally.

 

Men want the proposal to be their idea; they want to be 100% sure that you're the one; they want to sleep on their decision without your pressure; they want to surprise you and see that sparkle in your eyes when you grin and exclaim "Yes! Oh, yes, my darling!"

 

They don't want to feel rushed or pushed into something in which they never had a say. He already accused you of causing too much drama. I don't think you necessarily cause the drama; I think he might be the one causing the drama (doing bad things that upset you) and expecting from you to say nothing. But he wants to be accepted the way he is, he wants to be certain that life with you will be easy and sweet, not full of drama and bitterness. Sometimes, we over-romanticize love and marriage: we think that if they truly loved us, they would marry us today. But it's very natural to fear that the romance might vanish, the girl might turn into a bitch, and their life into a living hell.

 

This period of procrastination is critical, in the sense that he is doing his final evaluation of you as a potential wife. So far he was only focused on you as a girlfriend. So far, what mattered was how much fun you had together. The moment he started thinking about marrying you, he realized that it means more than fun, similar interests and great sex; it means dealing with life problems together, raising children, joining assets, supporting each other in difficult times, taking care of one another, and ultimately sacrificing for each other. These things were not relevant in the dating period but now they are. He is trying to predict the future with you by observing you more closely than ever. Any wrong move you make now counts as double.

 

I think more important than the proposal is for both of you to focus on discussing issues crucial for the marriage. Don't you want to know how he would act should something bad happen to you, God forbid? Would he take care of you or would he leave you? What are his views on marital assets, spending money, and mutual investments? I am sure you already know a lot about each other, but my point is that YOU too should be doing the final evaluation! Instead of being anxious about marrying him, you should show him that you also have concerns of your own about what kind of a husband he'd be.

 

Many "self-help" dating books recommend showing the guy that you're not a psycho or a drama queen or a freedom restrictor. Whatever you are, he should face it before the vows are made because the real you and the real he will surface sooner or later. Focus on discovering all layers of his personality and making sure HE IS THE ONE for you. YOU be the picky one. Don't be too ready to jump into marriage. He is not sure that you're perfect enough for him? Why should you be sure that he is perfect enough for you? And I am not telling you to pretend that you're not sure; I am telling you to REALLY be unsure: to test him, to look for red flags, to raise your criteria, and take your rosy glases off.

 

For one, think about the "drama" thing. Can you change your personality and stop the drama? What is really causing the drama? Can you alone eliminate it? Will you be happy if you know that you're not "allowed" to start an argument because you're immediately accused of being a drama queen, instead of him focusing on preventing the drama and resolving the issues constructively?

 

He has already put you in a position of receiving a silent ultimatum - either stop causing drama or you won't be considered perfect - which means, you might not be proposed to. YOU be the one who will have the final say. YOU make him wonder if you really want to marry him. Show him that YOU might change your mind about spending the rest of your life with him if he disregards your feelings. Next time he upsets you, ask him calmly: "Is this how you would always act if we were married? Hmm..." Shake the ground on which he is standing so superior and confident in your desire to marry him.

 

I don't know what you guys argue about, but I can guarantee you that things don't get better after the wedding; they can only get worse.

[Walk]

You said something to me a while ago that struck me. You said your bf had told you he wanted a certain gaming consel/ as an annv gift. (you'd told him you wanted the diamond earrings). You told me you wouldn't get him the game consel because it would take his time away from you so you got him something else. You got the diamond earings though.

 

It seems as if your view on how life should proceed isn't very flexible and doesn't leave much room what your bf wants. You've already decided when, where, and what type of wedding you will have. You picked out and sent a picture of the ($4k) engagement ring you want to your bf. You've stated you will have kids in 3-4 years. You will be a stay at home mom. Even when your bf came to you in frustration and stated he wanted to quit his job and move back to his home town, you said in your post that if that happened it would prevent you from being able to quit your job in the timeline you had decided on. Moving was not an option before you were ready.

 

You told me that it made you angry when your friends said they were engaged. As though they told you becasue they had gotten something you wanted and they wanted to rub it in. You skpped right passed jealous and straight into anger. You couldn't remove your own wants from the situation enough to just be happy for a person because they were happy.

 

You said earlier in this thread that your bf said you'd be perfect if you didn't create so much drama. You also stated in a different thread that you believed your employee review was bad because you were told you had areas you aren't perfect at (lack experience in). You were angered that your employer put that in your review. You said you felt it was wrong, and that they were lying to you when earlier they'd said positive things about your performance.

 

You have to be seen as perfect, and if things don't fit that image then you become upset.

 

Your insecurity is damaging you and your relationships. You immediately state you don't need counseling yet you admit you have an anxiety disorder in combination with an eating disorder. I don't believe you have the tools to effectively deal with the issues in your life. Most of us on here don't have the tools to deal with life's situations, but the difference between those who "make it" and those who don't is in how they deal with their flaws. They learn the tools they need, they listen, they learn, they use it to their advantage. You've flat out stated you don't need counseling and won't consider it. Yet you know you have issues that could benefit from counseling.

 

There isn't much room in your life for how your bf feels about things, about his concerns, or any issues he may feel need to be addressed before feeling comfortable with committing the rest of his life to you. You're bf stated he wants the proposal to be a surprise yet you start this thread with how you want to show him what type of ring you want him to give you. You said in this thread that you want to know when he's going to propose. So you want to tell him what ring to purchase and when to give it to you... how is that respecting his desire for it to be a surprise? Do you see how you are removing his desires from the proposal and focusing this back on to what you ultimately want?

 

Your behaviors and comments lead me to believe that your bf ends up feeling like he's the one walking on egg shells in this relationship. That if he says anything that could be seen as a criticsm of your behavior then he will be adversely affected for those views. And his only recourse is to apologize for saying anything critical of you. But then his actions show he's hesitant. You view his inactions as manipulative and evil. i.e. he's stringing you along, he won't ever marry you, planning activies is an attempting to distract you from the issue of engagment, etc. You don't seem to want to look at how he's feeling unless he can reassure you that there's nothing wrong and all is great. His concerns or issues are not conducive to an immediate proposal, yet you aren't working toward a finding a resolution with him.

 

If you want marriage because you want to spend the rest of your life with your bf, then include your bf in on the discussions. EVEN IF, those discussions don't shine the most flattering light on you. Take his concerns and issues as seriously as you take your own, and address them. Either through change (counseling) or through comprimise. There were so many things that you're bf has mentioned already that you've discounted in the past... like the fact that his family is adverse to having alcohol at the reception. Yet your comprimise is there will be alcohol there. Your bf stated he'd have to wait until his grandma died to propose because she's strongly against having alcohol at the wedding... yet you didn't immediately offer an non-alcoholic reception. He wanted to quit his job and move immediately, you stuck to the timeline. Instead of offering to re-evaluate in another 3 or 6 months, it was just a matter of he needed to suck it up (you said that in your post, "suck it up").

 

I'm still stuck on the fact that on your annv, a day where it should be about showing appreciation for who your partner is, and what they mean to you, you give him the gift that would make you happiest and not the gift that would've made him happiest.

 

Take all the above for what it's worth. You didn't come on here to hear this, and I realize that. You're a good person with flaws. It's up to you to determine if you want to work on those or pretend they don't exist. But I do know one thing.. if you don't start putting your bf's wants and concerns at as high a priority as your own, then your marriage will fail.

[carhill]

But I do know one thing.. if you don't start putting your bf's wants and concerns at as high a priority as your own, then your marriage will fail.

 

Re-read this OP, over and over. Truer words have not been spoken

[Touche]

Excellent posts by RP and Walk. Really great posts.

 

Just wanted to add that what struck me is your comment, LB, about your boyfriend maybe "using you." I mean that's a weird thing to say about the guy you're living with. How do you perceive him to be using you...I mean in what way? Aren't you getting as much out of living with him as he is living with you? If the answer is yes, then I don't see where he is "using" you. If the answer is no, I'd re-evaluate this whole relationship and question why you would want to spend your life with a man whom you believe is "using" you.

[Lishy]

Walk, as always, has hit the nail on the head and it was just what I was thinking. I have been prompting LB to think about and discuss why she is so obsessed with marriage and Walk has put it out there!

 

I know you do not take well to what you percieve as critisism LB, and I am not critisising you hereI just know that if you deal with the obsesive thoughts you have then you may stand some chance of being happy in your nappy!

 

Touche, LB made that comment to me as she obviously did not like what I said and she turned it into something that it wasnt.

[Ariadne]

You said something to me a while ago that struck me. You said...

 

Omg, what a whole bunch of analysis.

 

LB just wants to get married, what's the big deal. I think it's pretty normal given her age.

[Touche]

Oh, ok Lishy. I guess maybe I misunderstood or remembered that wrong. I thought LB was wondering if maybe her b/f was using her.

[Lauriebell82]

Thanks for all the responses. Someone suggested I take a break for awhile to lower my anxiety so that's what I'm going to do. I will be back sometime in the future, good luck to everyone!

[One Issue Idiot]

That short answer to long, critical but well-meaning posts was exactly what I expected. I read all your former threads and whenever things get a little tough you go away. Which is sad and doesn't bode well for your marriage or any other relationship you might have in the future.

[Touche]

I don't know that not posting will lower your anxiety. I mean I know for me, if I'm in a "mood" this is where I come to blow off steam and just vent sometimes. It keeps me from taking out my mood or whatever frustration I'm experiencing on my family.

 

I mean if you think not posting anymore will lower your anxiety, then do what you need to do. I just worry that if you close LS off as your "outlet" your anxieties might spill over into your relationship with your b/f (worse than it probably does already.)

 

But I do wish you the best, LB no matter what you decide. I really do wish you can relax about all of this. I can't really relate to it because I didn't feel that I was ready for marriage before 30. In all honesty, I don't think most people are.

 

Anyway, be well LB.