It's a question of respect...

[angie2443]

Assuming that Mom is now in a LTR with Dad's ex-friend...?? adult child, if said adult child wants a continued relationship with Mom, will eventually need to adjust to the new reality. Adult child doesn't need to like him, certainly doesn't need to have a "relationship" with him, but adult child will end up losing Mom, too, if the adult child doesn't start acting like an adult instead of a child.

 

How exactly do you propose the adult child show this respect?

 

You seem to be very hung up on the idea that a child (adult or otherwise) show respect to their parents or parent's partner. If that adult child has a valid reason, at least to them, to not respect their partent and/or their parent's partner, why should they have to compromise their values just to stay in favor with their parent?

[silktricks]

How exactly do you propose the adult child show this respect?

 

You seem to be very hung up on the idea that a child (adult or otherwise) show respect to their parents or parent's partner. If that adult child has a valid reason, at least to them, to not respect their partent and/or their parent's partner, why should they have to compromise their values just to stay in favor with their parent?

I'm "hung up" as you say, on the idea that people - all people - show respect to one another. And I'm heartily sick of the prevalent idea that people can be rude because they are offended by another person - as if that gives them the right to behave badly.

 

Oh yes - and the adult child should be polite and courteous to the parents new love - in the same way they would demand politeness and courteous behavior from their parent towards their new love.

[underpants]

I am all for being polite, well, most of the time. However, respect is something earned (on both sides of a relationship).

 

There are cases where a little early rudeness is called for. In severe cases of forced long term politeness I have seen some terrible outcomes.

 

In my tiny experiences the best avenue to true respect and therefore, agreed upon politeness levels. There has to be an honest dialogue.

 

It is a hard lesson to learn with whom to 'deal with,' and with whom to 'invest in'. This can be compounded when you factor in family relations and the innate since of loyalty in the face of a betrayl.

 

Hey, life can be complicated. At least it is not boring, right?

[angie2443]

I'm "hung up" as you say, on the idea that people - all people - show respect to one another. And I'm heartily sick of the prevalent idea that people can be rude because they are offended by another person - as if that gives them the right to behave badly.

 

Oh yes - and the adult child should be polite and courteous to the parents new love - in the same way they would demand politeness and courteous behavior from their parent towards their new love.

 

Again, I mostly disagree. Now, I'm not rude to the people I disrespect. I just ignore them, avoid them, or keep conversion with them to a minimal. In my opinion, if you respect everyone, then respect means nothing. Respect is very important to me. I teach my children to respect those that are good to them and those that are decent people. I would never teach my children to give respect to someone who was less than a respectful person. This doesn't mean that I let my children run up to the low life ex convict who smokes pot all day and have them tell the guy to "blank off" or say anything else rude to them. This does mean that my children have a choice in who they talk to, play with, give hugs to and so on. In this way, I teach my children that their bounderies and values are to be respected.

[silktricks]

Maybe you just need a brush-up on what the word respect means:

 

Although one of the meanings includes holding something in high esteem. I have made it fairly clear in this thread that is NOT the meaning I was using. I am using the following meaning of the word.

 

deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment: respect for a suspect's right to counsel; to show respect for the flag; respect for the elderly.

 

I believe all people on the face of the earth deserve respect. Most especially the spouse of one of our parents. Regardless of how little they may have "earned".

 

I am certainly not talking about who a child should play with, or give hugs to. I am talking about according people courtesy and polite acknowledgement.

 

But in all honesty, I don't care if you disagree, so let's just agree to disagree. I respect your right to believe what you believe. I simply disagree with what you believe.

[2sunny]

Maybe you just need a brush-up on what the word respect means:

 

Although one of the meanings includes holding something in high esteem. I have made it fairly clear in this thread that is NOT the meaning I was using. I am using the following meaning of the word.

 

deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment: respect for a suspect's right to counsel; to show respect for the flag; respect for the elderly.

 

I believe all people on the face of the earth deserve respect. Most especially the spouse of one of our parents. Regardless of how little they may have "earned".

 

I am certainly not talking about who a child should play with, or give hugs to. I am talking about according people courtesy and polite acknowledgement.

 

But in all honesty, I don't care if you disagree, so let's just agree to disagree. I respect your right to believe what you believe. I simply disagree with what you believe.

 

i believe all people deserve others to be polite - but respect IS earned.

 

note the word privilege in your quote from the dictionary... IMO the man hasn't earned this privilege or his "privileged position." in fact he sabotaged his privilege and position by his own actions.

 

this man in question - broke up a long marriage by having an affair with the Mom and pretending to be the Dad's best friend.

 

therefore - he goes into the "polite" category from my viewpoint.

[Adunaphel]

Silktricks, I basically share your views, and I find this thread very interesting.

 

I am under the impression that a common mistake is to encourage respect toward the new partner by words, but discourage respect by actions.

I have heard a number of stories where the parent who left his W/her H for another person kind of minimizes the importance of the OP when talking to his children.

The new bf/gf/W/H is not presented as "the person dad or mom are now happy with", but the parent basically keeps talking about the new partner like he is "finding excuses" for his/her presence, or like he is apologizing to the children.

IMO acting like that means killing any hope of respect and acceptance.

[J2FT1]

Respect means treating other how you want to be treated. I don't see how that should be earned. It can be lost, but it should be there in the first place.

[silktricks]

i believe all people deserve others to be polite - but respect IS earned.

 

note the word privilege in your quote from the dictionary... IMO the man hasn't earned this privilege or his "privileged position." in fact he sabotaged his privilege and position by his own actions.

 

this man in question - broke up a long marriage by having an affair with the Mom and pretending to be the Dad's best friend.

 

therefore - he goes into the "polite" category from my viewpoint.

IMO you are far too consumed with the idea something must be "earned" in order to be valid. He has a position of privilege by being the partner of a parent. It doesn't matter if you like him or like how it came about.

 

An adult should be able to deal in reality instead of the fantasy of what we "wish" life to be. The reality is that they are together. She can be an adult and accept him as her mother's new partner, or she can risk losing her mother.

 

What is your opinion on acceptance in the other direction? Say a 23 year old has been in a LTR relationship. The parents really really like their partner. The partner has become a loved member of the family. But now their child meets someone new falls head over heels and breaks up with the LTR partner. Do the parents of this 23 year old have the right to treat his/her new love with disdain or distant "politeness" or should those parents accord the new love of their child respectful acceptance?

[silktricks]

Silktricks, I basically share your views, and I find this thread very interesting.

 

I am under the impression that a common mistake is to encourage respect toward the new partner by words, but discourage respect by actions.

I have heard a number of stories where the parent who left his W/her H for another person kind of minimizes the importance of the OP when talking to his children.

The new bf/gf/W/H is not presented as "the person dad or mom are now happy with", but the parent basically keeps talking about the new partner like he is "finding excuses" for his/her presence, or like he is apologizing to the children.

IMO acting like that means killing any hope of respect and acceptance.

Thank-you, Adunaphel.

 

It could be that he/she is apologizing to the children. They know they have completely upended their children's lives and changed their family completely and forever. It's not pleasant knowing you've been part of that disruption - no matter how it came about.

 

But, you are right, this will not help the children accept the new reality any better.

[angie2443]

IMO you are far too consumed with the idea something must be "earned" in order to be valid. He has a position of privilege by being the partner of a parent. It doesn't matter if you like him or like how it came about.

?

 

IMO, no parent has a position of privilege just by bieng a parent alone. Any idiot can produce a child. All they have to do is spread their legs or un-zip their pants and go at it for a couple of minutes. Does this mean they automatically deserve respect? He!! no. There are parents out there who beat their children, are cruel to their children, manipulate their children for their, the parents, own benifit, and you would say these parents deserve respect. I've seen the outcome of this. I will go on giving respect to the people who deserve it and give the cold shoulder to the ones who don't and I will teach my children the same.

[silktricks]

I will go on giving respect to the people who deserve it and give the cold shoulder to the ones who don't and I will teach my children the same.

 

Angie, most of your posts I think are thoughtful and considered and I agree with. This is a subject we are obviously never going to agree on. So I'll just repeat what I said before.. This is my opinion and in all honesty, I don't care if you disagree, so let's just agree to disagree. I respect your right to believe what you believe.

[Adunaphel]

Thank-you, Adunaphel.

 

It could be that he/she is apologizing to the children. They know they have completely upended their children's lives and changed their family completely and forever. It's not pleasant knowing you've been part of that disruption - no matter how it came about.

 

But, you are right, this will not help the children accept the new reality any better.

 

I have just realized i did not express myself well (my fault )

I think it is right to apologize to the children, but some parents will apologize about "dating the other person" in a way that makes it sound more like it's about the other person than about the parent's decision to leave the first marriage.

I am under the impression that it makes the difference between "father/mother broke up the family to be happier" and "the other person stole father/mother away from us".

[silktricks]

I have just realized i did not express myself well (my fault )

I think it is right to apologize to the children, but some parents will apologize about "dating the other person" in a way that makes it sound more like it's about the other person than about the parent's decision to leave the first marriage.

I am under the impression that it makes the difference between "father/mother broke up the family to be happier" and "the other person stole father/mother away from us".

 

Ahhhh - yes, I understand. I think you are right. It is very important IMO to set the right "tone" when talking to children. This thread - for the most part - was geared (in my mind, at least) towards adult children as opposed to the young 'uns. One would hope that adult children would be adult enough to realize that the ultimate reason a couple breaks up is an attempt to be happier and that no one was "stolen". But, regardless of age, I think your point is well made.

[GrnEyedGemini]

I'm "hung up" as you say, on the idea that people - all people - show respect to one another. And I'm heartily sick of the prevalent idea that people can be rude because they are offended by another person - as if that gives them the right to behave badly.

 

Oh yes - and the adult child should be polite and courteous to the parents new love - in the same way they would demand politeness and courteous behavior from their parent towards their new love.

 

 

 

Well i guess its a good thing the adult child is not you and you are not the adult child. Or anyone important in the adult child's life! Thank God! Your rhetoric would just make the feelings and situation worse. Forced respect?? HA! Such BS!

 

Where was the dad's ex-friend's respect for the family and marriage he broke apart???? HUH?? Tell me that since you seem to have the right answers!

 

Why should the adult child respect someone who did not respect the boundaries created by a marriage of adult child's parents?

 

Why should the adult child respect someone who is the sole reason of the divorce and ruin of family?

 

Why should the adult child force respect where utter disgust is prelavent?

 

The dad's ex-friend crossed the line time and time again...he deserves NOTHING!

[GrnEyedGemini]

Ahhhh - yes, I understand. I think you are right. It is very important IMO to set the right "tone" when talking to children. This thread - for the most part - was geared (in my mind, at least) towards adult children as opposed to the young 'uns. One would hope that adult children would be adult enough to realize that the ultimate reason a couple breaks up is an attempt to be happier and that no one was "stolen". But, regardless of age, I think your point is well made.

 

 

When the dad's ex-friend merciliessly pursued mom throughout marriage to dad behind dad's back (as stated in the original post)...yes...the term STOLEN does apply. He had absolutely no right to pursue a MARRIED woman. Especially seeing as he was supposed to be the dad's BEST friend.

Mom was just a part of the betrayal...yet the adult child has to swallow the feelings of betrayal, hurt, disgust, and disappointment just because mom is the mom and the dad's ex-friend is the new replacement?

 

Being an adult child does not change the feelings. It is still a destroyed family, regardless how old the child is. Politeness when confronted with a situation involving dad's ex-friend is more than enough. Mom deserves the same IMO. No excuse for cheating. No excuse for destroying a family. If she wanted to leave because she was unhappy...she should have said so and proved it with actions; however, seeing as mom is flaunting the relationship with dad's ex-friend in front of destroyed family telling adult child to just get over it...respect is the least of things deserved. No one is respecting the feelings or thoughts of adult child. Respect is a two way street. Mom lost respect from adult child the day the betrayal came to surface...not only did she betray dad, but she betrayed the entire family.

 

Yet...adult child OWES her and new partner Respect??

[Tomcat33]

I don't think you have to like someone to respect them, you can be respectful towards someone and not like them and you can be disrespectful towards someone and like them.

 

I'm with you on this one Silk I think it is important for a parent to teach a child to respect people, even those he does not like. I don't believe respect is earned, I do believe respect can be taken away FOR SURE. It is the mature way to approach life and society. In life as adults and even as children humans will encounter all sorts of people they will not like that does not mean they have to disrepect them just because they don't like them.

 

 

When the dad's ex-friend merciliessly pursued mom throughout marriage to dad behind dad's back (as stated in the original post)...yes...the term STOLEN does apply. He had absolutely no right to pursue a MARRIED woman. Especially seeing as he was supposed to be the dad's BEST friend.

 

You don't know that it could have been completely the other way around. Furthermore that is irrelevant now, the point of the matter is the two people ARE together now and the parents are broken up it doesn't matter by who's choice the point being they are broken by by THEIR own personal choice. NO one held a gun to the man's head and said he should leave his W for another woman so they are both active participants of this new outcome.

 

For the sake of this child's future, for the sake of his own emotional development and for the sake of his own progress in terms of dealing with unfair situations in life, it would do him more good than bad to practice acting in a respectful manner towards this woman even if he hates her. He has no REAL reason to hate her and when he grows up and MATURES he will understand that his parent's relationships are independent to him and the love they feel for him, and that they too deserve to find their own happiness as human beings. Parents ARE human beings with their own set of needs as well as parents.

 

Children hate partners of their parents for no reason at all, they hate them because it is NOT their own parent and they hate to see one of their parents substituted by someone new, and this happens in relationships that break up and there was no affair just one partner remarries or what have you. A lot of the time in those cases it is what the parent that is NOT in a new relationship fills into the kid's head it's not even things a child is feeling on their own.

 

 

There are too many babies in this world as it is feeling sorry for every bad that has been done to them in their childhood and quite frankly EVERYONE has something to complain about in terms of upbringing and the things parents did wrong to them. We can't go through our adult lives feeling sorry for ourselves and to enforce disrepect on those that we feel we don't like is just perpetuating that level of immaturity.

 

No one is saying this young man's feelings should be neglected or dismissed he can feel all the emotions that he feels and they are his to own towards this woman and as I said before he never even has to like her, but to offer her respect is to act in a way in which not only shows maturity but also shows emotional intelligence and will benefit him far more as a huma being than doing otherwise.

[Tomcat33]

IMO, you are using the wrong word. I think that if you respect someone there is some sort of admiration that goes with it. I think you are just asking for people to be polite. It very possible for me to be polite to someone I don't respect. But if you ask me to respect someone with no redeeming qualities, well I would find that impossible.

 

I think it is more along the lines of "showing respect"

 

you know....much of what we get asked to do around here even when we "agressively disagree" with someone.

 

 

In the context of how this thread came about I think it was more along the lines of showing respect rather than actually feeling full on respect.

[GreenEyedLady]

Yet...adult child OWES her and new partner Respect??

 

Yes, if the adult child loves his parent and wants to have a R with the parent.

 

Cmon here, I don't think this is rocket science.

[underpants]

I find it a little amusing that some would demand "repsect" in the face of what others may find "disrespectful" behavior. Then to ice it all with the term "irrelevant" is well...okay. It does not wipe it away. It is not that easy. A child under 5 can recongize hyprocrisy. Is it "disrespectful" for that child to question it?

 

I guess some do prefer to be enabled and hear what they want to hear. Some enabling can be a form of passive/aggressive when the one with a different perspective... power. A child/adult child/forced to deal with a parent's moral decision that conflicts with what they believe, or what they were raised to think until a deception occurs that quakes their belief system. Forced respect can lead to passive/aggressive behaviors.

 

How it may turn out is a myriad of things.

 

Perhaps that is why I see and talk with more and more younger people with such weights of parent/close adult bad choices on their shoulders.

 

Seems very sad and avoidable.

 

My thought is that it would be best to take the time and work to strive for honest and true respect. It seems like a more genuine avenue.

[Tomcat33]

I guess some do prefer to be enabled and hear what they want to hear. Some enabling can be a form of passive/aggressive when the one with a different perspective... power. A child/adult child/forced to deal with a parent's moral decision that conflicts with what they believe, or what they were raised to think until a deception occurs that quakes their belief system. Forced respect can lead to passive/aggressive behaviors.

 

 

 

???????????????????????????

 

At any rate this idea that "forced" respect leads to passive/aggressive behaviours can also be countered with overt demonstrations of disrespect can also lead to problems in the work place and general social instablity. People will encounter other people that they will not respect but in some instances where the wellbeing of said person or their future is at stake, it is far better to demonstrate the ability to be respectful in less than ideal situations than it is to practice being disrepectful to maintain the sanctity of pureness of emotion. It's called "smart living" or diplomacy, which is also akin to being "respectful".

Teaching a child to choose his battles when it comes to harbouring overt resentments (which in effect this is what this issue is about, it's less about feeling actual respect and moreso about learning to show it for HIS own good) is sparing amputation of his/her emotional development.

[GPFan]

This may be one of those arguments where the two sides will have to agree-to-disagree. There are organised groups, certain religions for example, that place a higher value on marriage than children -- even when children are small.

 

Then there are individuals who place a higher priority on their personal well-being. No one is allowed to trump that as the well-being of the individual is seen as the basic underpinning of group well-being. Both men and women (more men than women) walk away from children of all ages. Many of us know men --no women yet in my experience-- who remarry (without an affair) and turn their back on children of a prior marriage because the current wife can not tolerate them.

 

These groups and individuals generally expect any child to adapt to his/hers parent's circumstances without compromise nor discussion. Respect is genuinely irrelevant.

 

On the other side are people who value their children above any potential partner. These people are more likely to take on board the feelings/reactions of their adult or near-adult children. They may also declare that any person who can't accept their children "as is" could never be a serious prospect.

 

This schism is based on the definition of family. I don't see any middle ground where the two factions can meet.

[silktricks]

Well i guess its a good thing the adult child is not you and you are not the adult child. Or anyone important in the adult child's life! Thank God! Your rhetoric would just make the feelings and situation worse. Forced respect?? HA! Such BS!

 

Where was the dad's ex-friend's respect for the family and marriage he broke apart???? HUH?? Tell me that since you seem to have the right answers!

 

Why should the adult child respect someone who did not respect the boundaries created by a marriage of adult child's parents?

 

Why should the adult child respect someone who is the sole reason of the divorce and ruin of family?

 

Why should the adult child force respect where utter disgust is prelavent?

!

When the dad's ex-friend merciliessly pursued mom throughout marriage to dad behind dad's back (as stated in the original post)...yes...the term STOLEN does apply. He had absolutely no right to pursue a MARRIED woman. Especially seeing as he was supposed to be the dad's BEST friend.

Mom was just a part of the betrayal...yet the adult child has to swallow the feelings of betrayal, hurt, disgust, and disappointment just because mom is the mom and the dad's ex-friend is the new replacement?

 

Being an adult child does not change the feelings. It is still a destroyed family, regardless how old the child is. Politeness when confronted with a situation involving dad's ex-friend is more than enough. Mom deserves the same IMO. No excuse for cheating. No excuse for destroying a family. If she wanted to leave because she was unhappy...she should have said so and proved it with actions; however, seeing as mom is flaunting the relationship with dad's ex-friend in front of destroyed family telling adult child to just get over it...respect is the least of things deserved. No one is respecting the feelings or thoughts of adult child. Respect is a two way street. Mom lost respect from adult child the day the betrayal came to surface...not only did she betray dad, but she betrayed the entire family.

 

Yet...adult child OWES her and new partner Respect??

 

First, you are using words that I neither used nor implied. I did not speak of forced respect nor owed respect. I did, however, say the adult child if said adult child wanted to continue a relationship with the mother should give her mother's new partner the respect (read that as consideration, acknowledgement and politeness) that he deserves simply because he is his mother's partner.

 

Second, you act as if your mother owes you to remain married to your father simply because that's what you want. It sounds like you are an only child, as you have not mentioned siblings, so family for you means Mom, Dad and you. You do not truly know what your mother and father's relationship was. It could easily be that your mother was unhappy, even desparately unhappy, and merely waited until you were an adult before leaving. I am not saying that she went about it the right way, if what you are saying is correct, she did not. But do you want to lose her, too? What we all need to deal with is life the way it is, not life the way we want it to be.

 

I ask again: What is your opinion on acceptance in the other direction? Say a 23 year old has been in a LTR relationship. The parents really love the adult child's partner. The partner has become a loved member of the family. But now their child meets someone new, falls head over heels in love and breaks up with the LTR partner. Do the parents of this adult child have the right to treat his/her new love with disdain or distant "politeness" or should those parents accord the new love of their child respectful acceptance?

[complicatedlife]

....but I had to say something in regards to this topic.

 

My personal/individual opinion is that every human being deserves respect, regardless of what I think of them because they are human - I would never treat someone badly because I don't like them- I know how to be courteous/polite and keep my distance both at the same time; IMHO, it's a necessary and acquired skill - especially in the workplace! This is how I was raised by my parents (respect, manners, and etiquette are very big with Caribbeans), and I carry that attitude with me as an adult; I will raise my children (if I am blessed to have any in the future) the same way.

 

From a psychological and philosophical point of view, research has shown that respect should first be offered freely because the person is a human being, and then second as an individual. Individual respect can be gained/regained through effort of said individual. The president of Adelphi University wrote an article on this, and there is a study done by Stanford University on this topic as well that supports these theories.

[Owl]

As I said in my post prior in this thread...

 

I think that the BEST you can hope for is that the BS might suggest to their child that they be POLITE to the WS's affair partner. Suggesting that the child "respect" an affair partner that was a primary contributing factor to the destruction of the marriage is out of the question. It teaches them the wrong thing.

 

Explaining to the child that they should be polite to the person that their mother/father is with is about the extent of what you could hope for.

 

I can be polite to a boss or co-worker that I cannot stand. But I cannot RESPECT someone who's not demonstrated qualities and attributes that create that atmosphere.

 

I wouldn't expect my kids to act any differently either.

 

Perhaps the source of the continued dispute here still wraps around our personal definition of "respect"?