It's a question of respect...

[Tomcat33]

I can be polite to a boss or co-worker that I cannot stand. But I cannot RESPECT someone who's not demonstrated qualities and attributes that create that atmosphere.

 

 

 

So you don't respect strangers at all? In other words until people prove themselves to you you have 0 respect for them?

[Owl]

So you don't respect strangers at all? In other words until people prove themselves to you you have 0 respect for them?

 

Correct. I'll treat them politely, courteously, and kindly...but RESPECT is another animal altogether.

 

Again, your definition of respect and mine are potentially much different. See my first post in this thread for what I view as a difference here.

 

And also consider the concept of asking someone who has had their life completely disrupted, their family sundered by a parent's affair...asking them to now turn around and RESPECT a primary contributor to that situation is worse than silly. Asking them to respect someone that they've got good cause to feel anger/disdain/hate for is (for me) beyond comprehension.

[Owl]

A complete stranger to me starts out at a zero balance in the respect department...neither positive, nor negative.

 

The balance changes over the course of my interaction with someone.

 

Someone such as my wife's OM would understandably START with a massive negative balance.

 

Someone who has demonstrated some type of respectable behavior that I may have heard of or in some fashion been made aware of may possibly start at a positive balance.

 

But what happens from there is entirely based on my interaction with them.

[complicatedlife]

Correct. I'll treat them politely, courteously, and kindly...but RESPECT is another animal altogether.

 

Again, your definition of respect and mine are potentially much different.

 

The noun of respect is what Owl (and others who agree with him) is referring to: to hold someone in high regard or have esteem for, and the transitive verb, which I am referring to is: to avoid violation or interference with.

 

Also, some believe respect is earned (this is the noun version). I believe a basic level of respect towards humans/mankind should be freely given (the transitive verb). Respect in this way begets politeness/couteousness. Just my opinion.

[Owl]

The noun of respect is what Owl (and others who agree with him) is referring to: to hold someone in high regard or have esteem for, and the transitive verb, which I am referring to is: to avoid violation or interference with.

 

Also, some believe respect is earned (this is the noun version). I believe a basic level of respect towards humans/mankind should be freely given (the transitive verb). Respect in this way begets politeness/couteousness. Just my opinion.

 

I see your point. From my perspective, your transitive verb version is just being polite and courteous.

 

Its reasonable to expect someone to be polite or courteous to a degree even to people they despise...if for some reason they are FORCED to have interaction with that person. (such as the affair situation we've described)

 

In other words...as you've said...its a way of INTERACTING with that person that is completely different with how they FEEL about that person.

 

But there is a limit to how far that can be pushed too. Asking me to shake hands or hug my wife's ex OM would be sheer stupidity. There's a limit to how much polite interaction you can reasonably respect based on circumstances.

[Tomcat33]

As I said in my post prior in this thread...

 

I think that the BEST you can hope for is that the BS might suggest to their child that they be POLITE to the WS's affair partner. Suggesting that the child "respect" an affair partner that was a primary contributing factor to the destruction of the marriage is out of the question. It teaches them the wrong thing.

 

Explaining to the child that they should be polite to the person that their mother/father is with is about the extent of what you could hope for.

 

I can be polite to a boss or co-worker that I cannot stand. But I cannot RESPECT someone who's not demonstrated qualities and attributes that create that atmosphere.

 

I wouldn't expect my kids to act any differently either.

 

Perhaps the source of the continued dispute here still wraps around our personal definition of "respect"?

 

Well there really isn't that much variance in terms of offering someone respect, you are either respectful towards someone or you are not.

I don't think there is a middle ground to that.

It's pretty black and white and in a lot of formal cases it doesn't matter how you feel about it personally you have to pony up and just offer respect if you know what is good for you.

 

A child that learns that being disrespectful to someone that "does not deserve it" is ok, is a child that will have no boundaries when dealing with teachers, bosses, coworkers and interpersonal relationships in general.

[Owl]

TC, again I think that there's the definition of respect.

 

Your "offering respect" is to me simply "polite and courteous behavior".

 

In other words, the transient verb version that Complicatedlife referred to.

 

I am a very polite and courteous person IRL. So are my children...who are all adults now. They were raised this way.

 

Respect to me is the NOUN version that Complicatedlife posted.

 

Its a feeling, not an action. "Treating someone with respect" to ME is outcome of FEELING respect for someone...and its a great deal more than simple polite and courteous behavior.

 

My kids were taught to be polite and courteous to EVERYONE they meet...and to give respect to those who have EARNED it.

 

I think we're agreeing on the behavior, but arguing over definition.

[GrnEyedGemini]

Well there really isn't that much variance in terms of offering someone respect, you are either respectful towards someone or you are not.

I don't think there is a middle ground to that.

It's pretty black and white and in a lot of formal cases it doesn't matter how you feel about it personally you have to pony up and just offer respect if you know what is good for you.

 

A child that learns that being disrespectful to someone that "does not deserve it" is ok, is a child that will have no boundaries when dealing with teachers, bosses, coworkers and interpersonal relationships in general.

 

 

 

That's not completely true. I was raised to respect those who respect me. As in Owl's term of respect. I don't start out with respect for anyone I just met, however, I am polite. Respect and being polite is two completely different things IMO, regardless of proper definitions anyone wants to give. I, as the adult child being talked about, do not respect, AT ALL, the OM. However, if I am ever in a room with him, of course I will be polite, mainly just to avoid confrontation. But, NOT because I respect him. He lost all of my respect by his actions. Note I said he LOST the respect because before, yes I did respect him as he was my dad's friend that came around often. Silk-you speak as if I have never met this guy and just decided right off the bat that he isn't worth my respect. That is not the case. I have known this man for 8 or 9 years. He had my respect up until the day the affair was brought out to light.

 

I DO know how my parents relationship was as my mom and I were close right up until the day she left. In addition, I am NOT an only child...I just didn't mention my brother because this doesn't concern him...he is serving in Iraq so he doesn't have to deal with it right now. Not to mention, dad I am referring to is technically my step-dad, but he is my dad no matter what. My mom has been divorced twice before, both ending in affairs. Therefore, I do believe I have a little experience in this department. I was simply asking how I should treat the OM...more than politeness is too much for me, now that I've thought about it. When you lose respect for someone, how can it be gained back magically overnight just because he is now mom's partner? Doesn't happen. (Respect meaning "a just regard for and appreciation of worth; honor and esteem;" or "to have deferential regard for; esteem; hold sacred or inviolable; to regard as important". That is what my dictionary says about respect.)

 

This situation is incomparable to the situation involving the child's love interest. Completely different! The mom and dad's ex-friend deceived and betrayed the family. How would the child changing love interests do anything of the like to the child's family? Not even close. Not even comparable. Completely different situations.

[Tomcat33]

Treating someone with respect IS being polite to someone, you have no reason to be polite to a complete stranger other than being respectful towards them.

 

This conversation is going to go in circles as it often does and it gets totally bogged down in semantics and varying degrees of similarities and slight differences that otherwise make up the exact same thing.

 

A well balanced person interacts with another human being in a respectful tone regardless of having a clear picture of their idosyncrasies. Most human beings do embrace others in this way. You call it being polite I call it being respecful, it's the EXACT same thing.

[Owl]

You call it being polite I call it being respecful, it's the EXACT same thing.

 

Which was my point as well!

[Tomcat33]

Which was my point as well!

 

 

Cool so you offer respect to people, even those you don't even know you can feel respect towards.

[Owl]

I LOVE how you try to do that...

 

I can be kind and courteous to other people, even those I don't respect.

 

I won't call it offering respect, because offering respect has a different definition for me than it does for you. I don't share your definition, so won't phrase it your way. Simple enough.

[Tomcat33]

I LOVE how you try to do that...

 

I can be kind and courteous to other people, even those I don't respect.

 

I won't call it offering respect, because offering respect has a different definition for me than it does for you. I don't share your definition, so won't phrase it your way. Simple enough.

 

 

Do what? :laugh:

 

Look, if you don't offer respect to people you don't know then clearly you do the opposite of that, you offer disrespect.

 

You're either preggers or you're not. right? You're a fan of "black and white", I am surprised there is so much grey for ya here!?!?!

[Owl]

You're right...and I've already stated that I DON'T 'offer respect' BY MY UNDERSTANDING AND USE OF THE PHRASE...to those who don't earn it.

 

You're trying to convince me to use YOUR definition of respect and showing respect...which I clearly won't do.

 

What's so hard for you to understand...this is simple. So simple, even a tomcat could get it.

[Owl]

On the "black and white" comment...it IS black and white. I posted my view on "dealing with strangers earlier...perhaps you missed it?

 

A complete stranger to me starts out at a zero balance in the respect department...neither positive, nor negative.

 

The balance changes over the course of my interaction with someone.

 

Someone such as my wife's OM would understandably START with a massive negative balance.

 

Someone who has demonstrated some type of respectable behavior that I may have heard of or in some fashion been made aware of may possibly start at a positive balance.

 

But what happens from there is entirely based on my interaction with them.

[Tomcat33]

What's so hard for you to understand...this is simple. So simple, even a tomcat could get it.

 

 

I always thought you were above petty insults, I guess was wrong.

 

 

You're right...and I've already stated that I DON'T 'offer respect' BY MY UNDERSTANDING AND USE OF THE PHRASE...to those who don't earn it.

 

Ok let's clear the air then, what's you definition of showing respect?

[Owl]

The lack of showing respect for someone isn't showing disrespect...its showing neutrality.

 

The OPPOSITE of showing respect is showing disrespect.

 

See the difference?

[Tomcat33]

The lack of showing respect for someone isn't showing disrespect...its showing neutrality.

 

The OPPOSITE of showing respect is showing disrespect.

 

See the difference?

 

 

no because neutrality can come off as MORE disrespectful, there is nothing more offensive than indifference so....

 

I see the difference do you?

[Owl]

I always thought you were above petty insults, I guess was wrong.

 

Ok let's clear the air then, what's you definition of showing respect?

 

I've defined 'respect' vs politeness on the first page of this thread...please, go back and read for yourself.

 

Showing respect is a great deal more than simply being polite and courteous...as I've stated numerous times already in this thread. For me, respect and admiration go hand in hand.

 

On the "petty insult"...it was humor. The little smiley face might have been an indicator.

[Tomcat33]

I've defined 'respect' vs politeness on the first page of this thread...please, go back and read for yourself.

 

Showing respect is a great deal more than simply being polite and courteous...as I've stated numerous times already in this thread. For me, respect and admiration go hand in hand.

 

On the "petty insult"...it was humor. The little smiley face might have been an indicator.

 

 

You can't stand it when I point out you are wrong, in not so many words. Your stubborness is cute!

[Owl]

no because neutrality can come off as MORE disrespectful, there is nothing more offensive than indifference so....

 

I see the difference do you?

 

Obviously you DON'T see the difference. If you see viewing someone indifferently, as a neutral persona until they demonstrate who they are...if you see that as disrespectful, then clearly we DO have a huge 'definition gap' going on here.

 

Again, treating them courteously is still part of it...even if I view them indifferently.

 

Guess this wasn't nearly as simple as it appeared to be.

[Owl]

You can't stand it when I point out you are wrong, in not so many words. Your stubborness is cute!

 

 

 

We'll find out, when you successfully point out that I'm wrong.

 

You're simply battling over word usage, and trying to prove your point by attempting to force others to use and adhere to your definitions.

 

Its not cute...its TIRESOME after the sheer number of times you've played this game.

[Owl]

When I deal with a cashier at the checkout...

 

I treat them courteously and kindly. I may crack a joke, try to lighten their day a little.

 

But, I feel neither respect nor disprect for them. Nor do I SHOW them respect or disrespect. I show them courtesy.

 

They EARN respect or disrespect from me based on their actions and interactions with me.

 

Can it get ANY plainer than this?

[GrnEyedGemini]

Ya know what's funny, yet ironic? Tomcat keeps arguing about the meaning of respect and how to give respect and how everyone deserves respect...yet...Tomcat...you aren't respecting the fact that other people have different opinions on what respect is or how it is given. You aren't giving respect to us,our opinions, or the fact that we have the right to disagree with you and your opinions. There is no right or wrong when it comes to opinions or points of view, Tomcat.

 

Why argue about respect when you aren't even practicing what you preach? ...

[Tomcat33]

Its not cute...its TIRESOME after the sheer number of times you've played this game.

 

You love it, otherwise you would have stopped 7 posts ago.

 

Ya know what's funny, yet ironic? Tomcat keeps arguing about the meaning of respect and how to give respect and how everyone deserves respect...yet...Tomcat...you aren't respecting the fact that other people have different opinions on what respect is or how it is given. You aren't giving respect to us,our opinions, or the fact that we have the right to disagree with you and your opinions. There is no right or wrong when it comes to opinions or points of view, Tomcat.

 

Why argue about respect when you aren't even practicing what you preach?

 

Because having a difference in opinion with someone is not disrespectful, neither is disagreeing on a view. If you go through life only feeling respected by those that accept your way of thinking then you must lead a pretty frustrating life.