Why are women so Catty with each other?

[Taramere]

The blatantly "looking you up and down with a bitchy, sneering look", ill-mannered cattiness is something I'd expect to see from uneducated, unintelligent people who are lacking in social graces...regardless of how expensive the accessories they're carting around with them might be. Possibly that's equal cattiness/snobbery on my part, of course. To me, the acid test is "are you behaving towards that person in a way that's actively intended to reduce their sense of self worth? If so, that's catty.

 

And by the by....I think that a lot of the "why are women so..." threads on this board are catty in that regard. IE they're often very clearly intended to make women feel bad about themselves. I don't mean this thread - I mean the "why do women dare to feel entitled to anything?" type threads.

 

We all like a bit of attention, but I think most people get uncomfortable with too much of it. If I get a gushing compliment in front of other people, it stresses me out. Possibly because I associate getting too much positive attention with being on the receiving end of unpleasantness from the kind of people who have a thirst to be in the spotlight constantly, and who think they should have exclusive rights to all attention and compliments.

 

I really don't find that I meet many women who fall into that category though, so I feel a knee-jerk desire to protest against the notion that women are generally catty. It's always unfortunate when the blatantly unpleasant actions of a few are taken as an excuse to judge the majority in a negative light.

[OpenBook]

Yeah, women can be catty. So what? Men can be jerks.

 

I got too much other stuff going on to indulge in worrying about cattiness. I've never really understood it anyway. It's a man's world out there; we women should be sticking together!!

 

But I do know this... If it's not fed (with attention), the cattiness will go away. Whenever I'm in a group of women and it starts getting catty, diversion (to another topic) usually works. Or failing that, joking about it. Joking around allows you to address the issue that stemmed from the cattiness instead of attacking anyone. It brings the issue out into the light of day, and then it puts it in its proper place.

 

And there's nothing like a common (outside) enemy to bind any group together.

[vonerik012]

On top of what everyone said, I think it's also down to how women mark themselves as "valuable". You get a Gucci bag, take it proudly out to the streets and show of your new fortune, and then there comes another with a nicer handbag and you'll get jealous and all. 1) why didn't I get that?! or 2) I wish I had the money to get THAT one. 3) What a show-off. It comes back to jealousy but then also ties to they're jealous because they look more "valuable". Hierarchy is as important to women as to men, if not more so. But the hierarchy is done probably by different standards... e.g. men with cars they drive and women with things they wear etc.

 

Can you remember the time you were pretty selfless once upon a time? I can, and it's breaking my own heart to be a b**** but people break your heart if you're not b***hy enough nowadays. Women are just vicious.

 

 

Completely different.

 

If men see another man with a nice car, they are not jealous. They are admiring the car. "Wow, look Ferrari". If he has a hot woman with him, more power to him. We aren't putting him down. We have other ways in which we feel we might be better. We might be able to kick his ass. We might be funnier. We might have a bigger package. So we really don't care.

 

I think what it comes down to is this.

 

Women KNOW the most important thing is WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE.

 

Some women love rich men. Funny men. Tough men. Handsome men. Older men. Younger men. Athletic men. Intelligent men. All types of men can be desirable.

 

Not so for women. Women are only judged solely by their looks. If another woman looks better, they hate them for it. Thus they have to try and tear them down to feel better about themselves. Or examine what they are wearing, so that they can also look that good. (But inside they know it isn't possible)

 

Even if a woman is happily married, she knows her husband most likely desires the young hot chick they might see. Inside she hates it.

[grogster]

The blatantly "looking you up and down with a bitchy, sneering look", ill-mannered cattiness is something I'd expect to see from uneducated, unintelligent people who are lacking in social graces...regardless of how expensive the accessories they're carting around with them might be. Possibly that's equal cattiness/snobbery on my part, of course. To me, the acid test is "are you behaving towards that person in a way that's actively intended to reduce their sense of self worth? If so, that's catty.

 

And by the by....I think that a lot of the "why are women so..." threads on this board are catty in that regard. IE they're often very clearly intended to make women feel bad about themselves. I don't mean this thread - I mean the "why do women dare to feel entitled to anything?" type threads.

 

We all like a bit of attention, but I think most people get uncomfortable with too much of it. If I get a gushing compliment in front of other people, it stresses me out. Possibly because I associate getting too much positive attention with being on the receiving end of unpleasantness from the kind of people who have a thirst to be in the spotlight constantly, and who think they should have exclusive rights to all attention and compliments.

 

I really don't find that I meet many women who fall into that category though, so I feel a knee-jerk desire to protest against the notion that women are generally catty. It's always unfortunate when the blatantly unpleasant actions of a few are taken as an excuse to judge the majority in a negative light.

 

Gender is the last refuge of scoundrels (of which I include myself). If the Thread had been entitled, "Why are all Blacks uppity?" or "Why are all Jews greedy?" there would have been far fewer posts that accepted (or assumed the truth of) the basic premise. Rather, the OP would have been vilified for racism or anti-semitism. Gender, however, remains fair (or unfair)game. Why?

 

Thanks for your bracing post, Tara.

[Trialbyfire]

I'm pretty sure we've established this already. now i want to know why. what is the cause...and i'd love to hear from women about it.

 

In my experience, I get annoyed with women in a particular district of the city i live in. The wealthier district that seems to breed the same woman over and over. Blonde hair, straight with side swept bangs, designer jeans, and some trendy top, topped with D&G sunglasses. They all weigh about 95 pounds. They seem to walk with arrogance, like they are so much better than you. AND I FEEL IT! i weigh 124 and would be considered fat to some of these ladies. I'd love to get in their heads though, and see how they really feel about themselves.

 

Why do i roll my eyes at these ladies??? I dont know. I guess I wish they could be more original. Instead its like looking at the same girl over and over. Or maybe I wish i was skinnier?

 

Dont know, but this thread definately has me thinking, and maybe next time, i wont be so bitchy.

 

I would still love to hear from the ladies about their bad experiences, and why they choose to act catty with others. So come on ladies, please share your stories. I dont care much about the male side of this (maybe on a different thread) so ladies....SPEAK UP! Lets work it out!

Instead of talking about the negative experiences, I'm going to talk about positive experiences with women.

 

What I find is that most women, if you smile at them or give them a friendly look, it will be returned. We're all people too.

 

I've seen women who can put themselves together really well and have complimented them on it, stranger or not. This type of behaviour has been reciprocated, stranger or not.

 

Not every look or female action has negative connotations. I sometimes wonder if people think the worst but more often than not, it's quite the opposite.

[Jilly Bean]

For the most part, I think women are horrendous to each other. They are petty, vicious, vile and mean.

 

The only women I have sustained long-term friendships with, are those that are like me - very strong, successful and no BS.

 

I was friends with a drama queen last year for about 5 minutes. EVERYTHING was drama. She was married, yet was always telling her husband about this hot guy she knows, and he he wants her. Then final straw was when she blew off my birthday party in Vegas, because she didn't like one of my friends who was going. TOXIC.

 

And then there was the recent c*ck blocker I posted about...

 

I have about 75% guy friends versus gf's, but the handful of close gf's I have are amazing.

[The Collector]

Anyone denying the basic premise of this thread's question needs to get out more. Men blindly trust each other far more than women blindly trust each other. Stone cold fact, and one most women agree with. Probably got something to do with caveman days, but it's entirely predictable this thread would get derailed by people trying to argue men are just as bad. Knee-jerk female defending won't answer the question.

[Trialbyfire]

Any person who blindly trust others, without using their minds to understand and come to it's own conclusion, is asking for it.

[The Collector]

You fell into my trap, I used 'blind' for a reason. Blind trust has its disadvantages, but advantages too. The right balance is of course best, but going through life overly suspicious and paranoid about your fellow gender, as many women do, has short term gains and long term costs. Go through life assuming that your 'brothers' are largely on your side, as men often do, becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Trialbyfire]

Trust and blind trust are two different levels of the same. Blind trust is asking for it, regardless of gender.

 

Negativity is easy to fuel. If you find one tiny flaw, you can continue to pick at it until it becomes an insurmountable mountain of devastational impact.

 

Do I trust any women blindly? No. Do I trust any man blindly? No. This is learned through experiences of trusting blindly and getting it up the wazoo.

 

I will state that more often than not but not always, women who have problems making female friends, tend to be the problem, not the solution. You'll find many of them highly, highly competitive and threatened by other women.

[vonerik012]

Trust and blind trust are two different levels of the same. Blind trust is asking for it, regardless of gender.

 

Negativity is easy to fuel. If you find one tiny flaw, you can continue to pick at it until it becomes an insurmountable mountain of devastational impact.

 

Do I trust any women blindly? No. Do I trust any man blindly? No. This is learned through experiences of trusting blindly and getting it up the wazoo.

 

I will state that more often than not but not always, women who have problems making female friends, tend to be the problem, not the solution. You'll find many of them highly, highly competitive and threatened by other women.

 

 

While some women have female friends, most it seems do not have any. Or want any.

 

While some DO have female friends, often times little arguments lead them to not talking for long periods of time to each other. And girls are almost always tearing down their best friends behind their backs.

 

2 men might actually fist fight, then be best friends the next day. We don't hold grudges for years over something that was said.

[Jilly Bean]

Beta women seem to have a lot of friends. That's because they're used to be part of the herd, and there a lot of betas out there.

 

If you're alpha, your selection pool of like-minded women is far smaller, hence alpha's having fewer close gf's.

 

I don't tolerate beta's well of either gender.

[vintagecat]

Jilly Bean said: If you're alpha, your selection pool of like-minded women is far smaller, hence alpha's having fewer close gf's.

 

Very possibly. I notice that women tend not to take bad news or differences of opinion well, they tend to take things not intended as slights quite personally, and they tend when angry to burn bridges with not only friends but business associates and other important community entities. In other words, women tend to not "do" conflict well at all. And of course much of life and most of business is conflict.

 

For example: I am on another list for a specific trade function and there is this one woman that seemed to believe that it was her duty to take me down a peg practically every other post I made. It really wasn't worth my time to address and she was the one looking like the horses ass not me with her juvenile posing. I finally said something about it after months of snippety snips and only after others complained. She dissembled but has pretty much backed off of me and has chosen to pick on someone else. Big surprise. I've never met this woman, never had cross words with her on or off the list, and I don't know the cause of her issues with me (and I really am not much caring either) but I find it odd. I do see guys doing this on a BBS occasionally but usually it's after a big blow up over something and then the sniping starts, not normally before and not without some causal factors.

 

I remember years (many) ago when I was about 7 or 8 there was this wonderful cartoon where a sheep dog and wolf would talk nicely about their family carrying their lunch boxes to clock in to work. The moment they clocked in they started killing each other. When the noon whistle blew, they stopped whatever warfare they were engaged in and ate lunch next to each other. After lunch they resumed fighting exactly where they left off. Even at my early age I recognized that this concept was foreign to my female friends but not the boys that I played with as I was pretty much a tomboy until around 10 years old.

 

It's unfortunate that women don't get this concept as a rule. I like women and believe in them. I'm not a jealous person because I've had my successes and no matter what someone else does or whatever genetic gift of beauty that they possess and exploit, it does not diminish who I am. And finally I was a momma's girl so I find that my more male than female friend ratio distressing and the quoted line at the top may be the reason.

 

For whatever reason, the person that I am is better understood and liked by men than women. And frankly I really understand and get along with guys as friends, buddies, co-workers as well.

 

This topic is food for thought for me for sure.

[Trialbyfire]

I'm alpha but have a number of close female and male friends with a ratio of 55/45 female weighted. I also have a number of friends and contacts, which lean closer to gender ratios of 40/60 male weighted, due to more men in my industry and also men who have made their attraction known, therefore are part of my dating pool.

 

I've never had problems finding alpha female friends since this seems to be the type of woman I get along with best. Most often they're straight-forward women who thrive on common sense, intelligence and personal abilities v. manipulation, flattery and lies.

 

Is it possible there's some confusion over the definition of alpha? Lately, I've noticed that people are confusing the term alpha male with misogynists and abusers. A true alpha has enough confidence in himself that he's not threatened by strong women. He leads because it's what he does and people follow.

[Taramere]

Very possibly. I notice that women tend not to take bad news or differences of opinion well, they tend to take things not intended as slights quite personally, and they tend when angry to burn bridges with not only friends but business associates and other important community entities. In other words, women tend to not "do" conflict well at all. And of course much of life and most of business is conflict.

 

I don't think either gender has the monopoly on being good at conflict. A more aggressive, direct approach can overwhelm and result in a particular battle being "won", but that's not necessarily a good thing if the cost of winning that battle later proves to be unacceptably high. For instance, company A litigates against company B.

 

Company A wins, but the business relationship is lost to the subsequent financial detriment of company A. A tendency to get entrenched in a position (through the desire to "win at all costs") often accompanies the more aggressive, traditionally male approach. It's not always a positive thing.

 

I think people who are good in conflict borrow from both male and female (generalising about what "male" and "female" means, of course) approaches. An alphamale in the business sphere might adopt a very testosterone heavy approach when aggression is called for, but he'll be just as comfortable borrowing from the feminine when a more conciliatory and diplomatic approach is required. That's why he's an alphamale. Survival of the fittest is about having the skills to adapt to your environment. I don't think either gender has the upper hand in that respect.

 

 

I remember years (many) ago when I was about 7 or 8 there was this wonderful cartoon where a sheep dog and wolf would talk nicely about their family carrying their lunch boxes to clock in to work. The moment they clocked in they started killing each other. When the noon whistle blew, they stopped whatever warfare they were engaged in and ate lunch next to each other.

 

A lot of court lawyers are female!

 

It's unfortunate that women don't get this concept as a rule. I like women and believe in them. I'm not a jealous person because I've had my successes and no matter what someone else does or whatever genetic gift of beauty that they possess and exploit, it does not diminish who I am. And finally I was a momma's girl so I find that my more male than female friend ratio distressing and the quoted line at the top may be the reason.

 

For whatever reason, the person that I am is better understood and liked by men than women. And frankly I really understand and get along with guys as friends, buddies, co-workers as well.

 

This topic is food for thought for me for sure.

 

It's great that you have a lot of male friends, but a little sad that you find it difficult to connect with other women. It's clear from your post that you'd prefer to have those connections.

 

I hope that your friends are able to have as much time and respect for the "feminine way" as they do for the more masculine approach. Too often I see aspects of human nature that are more traditionally regarded as feminine being derided for precisely that (ie being "feminine").

 

The people we bond most closely with probably do mirror us in a lot of ways, but that's not to say we can't learn from and appreciate those who are very different from us.

[grogster]

I remain convinced that the ability to get along with others, engage in effective conflict resolution and and be interpersonally effective has more to do with personality, temperament and situation than it does with gender. Way more.

 

Individual differences in personality and situation matter, much more than gender, in attempting to explain interactions. While employing "gender," either positively or negatively, as a full bore rationale for strained interpersonal interactions might be sexy or trendy, I believe it's superficial, biased and plain wrong.

 

Are there sex differences? Of course. Do these sex differences explain why some are insecure, defensive and obnoxious in certain situations with certain individuals? No.

[vonerik012]

I do not understand the obsession with labeling people "Alpha", or "Beta" or "Non Alpha".. Almost everyone has a mix of certain Alpha characteristics, and Non Alpha characteristics.

 

I think women are competitive in different ways. Men are far more obvious about it, and you can have a clear winner, and clear loser. As an example, many play sports. Winning and losing is close to life and death. Even in the ALTA tennis league I played in with older men. After the match, the competition is over.

 

For women, the competition seems to be more of an ongoing thing. I have not came across many that love to win at chess, cards, board games, sports etc. They are rarely competitive in this manner.

 

But, it is so common For women to comment on every other woman they see anywhere. Comparing themselves, just based on looks, clothes, the other woman's voice etc. If someone seems to look better, they are then tore down.

 

I know many women that are even jealous of actresses on TV. "She isn't that pretty". "She will get fat later" , "She doesn't look natural", "She looks old for her age", "She looks slutty" etc.

 

And if you ever date a career woman, most of their conversation is about putting down other women at work. They are obsessed with it.

[shadowplay]

I know many women that are even jealous of actresses on TV. "She isn't that pretty". "She will get fat later" , "She doesn't look natural", "She looks old for her age", "She looks slutty" etc.

 

And if you ever date a career woman, most of their conversation is about putting down other women at work. They are obsessed with it.

 

So true. This is why I tend to avoid groups of women. Most women are OK one on one but all their cattiness seems to come out when they are enforced by each other. How many times have I been watching TV with a group of women and they'll get into this mode of picking apart the looks of Jessica Alba or whatever actress is on the screen. "She's not even that pretty. She's a butterface. She's too skinny." Then I look around the room and observe to myself that none of the women are even a fraction as pretty as the actress they're trashing.

 

Another common scenario is members of a clique trashing whichever member isn't there. Actually this happens one on one more often. Like let's say Jessica, Sarah and I are all friends. One day I have lunch with Jessica and she starts badmouthing Sarah. This leaves me in a really awkward position. Usually I just don't say anything because I know if I do it will get back to Sarah. I immediately lose trust in Jessica because I know she's probably badmouthing me too behind my back.

 

This kind of crap becomes especially pronounced in a work setting. I was working for a few months as a paralegal for a small firm. My two superiors were both bitter middle aged women. They conducted themselves like teenaged girls. They were constantly making petty remarks about other women. You wouldn't believe the juvenile dirt that came out of their mouths. They tried to recruit me in their bitch fests but I just tried to ignore them.

[vonerik012]

I don't think the thread is about simply getting along with others.

 

A man might have no friends at all, yet he does not spend his time tearing other men down. He might just be a loner.

 

Women who have female friends, or no female friends, spend lots of time tearing other females apart. On tv, at work, on the street, at a bar, etc.

Much of their conversation is gossip about other women.

 

Gilrs are far more prone to using relational or indirect aggression towards one another. Using words to hurt or practicing exclusion. Not a typical male trait.

[grogster]

I don't think the thread is about simply getting along with others.

 

A man might have no friends at all, yet he does not spend his time tearing other men down. He might just be a loner.

 

Women who have female friends, or no female friends, spend lots of time tearing other females apart. On tv, at work, on the street, at a bar, etc.

Much of their conversation is gossip about other women.

 

Gilrs are far more prone to using relational or indirect aggression towards one another. Using words to hurt or practicing exclusion. Not a typical male trait.

 

Wow. This Thread has been an eye-opener for me. You're correct: adult men, while we tend to be loners, usually do not practice "relational or indirect aggression towards one another". We just don't care enough.

 

What an interesting glimpse into another world--one that I, because I'm a guy, don't see.

[Virgo1982]

Wow. This Thread has been an eye-opener for me. You're correct: adult men, while we tend to be loners, usually do not practice "relational or indirect aggression towards one another". We just don't care enough.

 

What an interesting glimpse into another world--one that I, because I'm a guy, don't see.

 

That indirect aggression is a true friendship killer to me. You can't trust someone who can't be honest with you. Why can't we just accept what we can't change about ourselves and improve/enhance what we can?

Why can't we appreciate the talent/beauty/good attributes in our fellow woman? I know one female friend who is capable of this. As for the others, I consider them associates because they can not relate to other women in this way. I make an attempt to lead by example and it does not matter in the end-They take it the wrong way.

[Trialbyfire]

That indirect aggression is a true friendship killer to me. You can't trust someone who can't be honest with you. Why can't we just accept what we can't change about ourselves and improve/enhance what we can?

Why can't we appreciate the talent/beauty/good attributes in our fellow woman? I know one female friend who is capable of this. As for the others, I consider them associates because they can not relate to other women in this way. I make an attempt to lead by example and it does not matter in the end-They take it the wrong way.

It's very possible they don't want to be led and prefer to lead or interact in a particular fashion. I guess you have to look at yourself and whomever you're attempting to interact with, to see if you can't find common ground. It doesn't always have to be battle grounds drawn, regardless if your opinions differ. As an example, LS: Sometimes debates or disagreements happen within one thread that really doesn't have to be dragged to other threads.

 

If all else fails, instead of battle lines, avoid each other with civility.

[Taramere]

I remain convinced that the ability to get along with others, engage in effective conflict resolution and and be interpersonally effective has more to do with personality, temperament and situation than it does with gender. Way more.

 

Well said. I must admit that out of sheer laziness and because the stereotypes ascribed to the genders tend to cut across all cultures, I'm as guilty as anyone of using "traditionally masculine" or "traditionally feminine" to describe traits that may often dictated more by temperament, mood, circumstances and upbringing rather than gender.

 

However a woman happens to conduct herself, because a word like "catty" is so often used in respect of women, then sooner or later she'll find herself accused of cattiness.

 

I feel about that word the same way I feel about every word that's used to regularly put women down. Whether it's feminazi, whore, catty, sly, disloyal, weak, dishonest, slut, victim-who-asked-for-it, gold-digger, bitch, dog, cunt and all the rest of them...these labels usually say infinitely more about the prejudices and insecurities of the people who apply them (not to mention the poor judgement they demonstrate in selecting lovers) than they do about a gender.

 

It annoys me when I see women desperately dodging the labels and attaching them to other women as they do so. "Personally I'm not catty, but yes....on the whole other women are catty." On the other hand, I can understand people doing that, and I'm pretty sure I do it myself at times. It's an easy trap to fall into - trying to protect yourself from the insulting generalisations so often attached to your gender, and betraying/insulting the rest of your gender as you do so.

 

One alternative is, of course, to embrace the labels with that "I can go from zero to bitch in 5 seconds flat" philosophy, but if you're not 14 years old that's not a terribly appealing option. Maybe the best alternative is just to regard all these derogatory words and labels as utterly meaningless, and respond to them with the indifference they deserve.

[grogster]

Well said. I must admit that out of sheer laziness and because the stereotypes ascribed to the genders tend to cut across all cultures, I'm as guilty as anyone of using "traditionally masculine" or "traditionally feminine" to describe traits that may often dictated more by temperament, mood, circumstances and upbringing rather than gender.

 

However a woman happens to conduct herself, because a word like "catty" is so often used in respect of women, then sooner or later she'll find herself accused of cattiness.

 

I feel about that word the same way I feel about every word that's used to regularly put women down. Whether it's feminazi, whore, catty, sly, disloyal, weak, dishonest, slut, victim-who-asked-for-it, gold-digger, bitch, dog, cunt and all the rest of them...these labels usually say infinitely more about the prejudices and insecurities of the people who apply them (not to mention the poor judgement they demonstrate in selecting lovers) than they do about a gender.

 

It annoys me when I see women desperately dodging the labels and attaching them to other women as they do so. "Personally I'm not catty, but yes....on the whole other women are catty." On the other hand, I can understand people doing that, and I'm pretty sure I do it myself at times. It's an easy trap to fall into - trying to protect yourself from the insulting generalisations so often attached to your gender, and betraying/insulting the rest of your gender as you do so.

 

One alternative is, of course, to embrace the labels with that "I can go from zero to bitch in 5 seconds flat" philosophy, but if you're not 14 years old that's not a terribly appealing option. Maybe the best alternative is just to regard all these derogatory words and labels as utterly meaningless, and respond to them with the indifference they deserve.

 

 

That's what I believe, too, Tara, but posters, drawing on their interpretations of personal experiences, disagree. Are women really "catty" towards other women or is this gender prejudice merely a loaded interpretation of an unpleasant gender-neutral interaction?

 

Does "cattiness" erroneously define events that may not have a gender-based explanation? Does it matter given that, for many, perception is reality? Have many women adopted negative stereotypes about other women and interpreted unpleasant encounters with other women in light of these gender stereotypes?

 

In short, if there's a presumption of cattiness in woman-to-woman interactions, doesn't that term over-explain? Call me naive, but I refuse to believe that all Whites are racist, all Men are sexist and all Women are catty.

[The Collector]

Call it what you want (and 'cattiness' is hardly hate-speak), there is a marked difference between how the sexes -often, sometimes - treat their own. It's observable by anyone with eyes. It's not a case of confirmation bias or prejudice, it's how many women often act. Are the women here accepting the premise imagining their experience?

 

The example of female friends falling out over a relatively minor slight or disagreement and the rift lasting years or maybe forever - I've seen this happen with women time and time again, and have rarely observed such a similar thing with men. It is also apparent in the mother/daughter dynamic, which often follows the same pattern.